should I stay or leave my husband

[want2bhappy]

Okay, my husband mentally abuses me.  He criticizes me, degrades me, makes extremely crudes jokes at my expense, doesn't allow me to visit him at work or invited any of my coworkers to my house,  doesn't help me clean our 3500 sq ft house at all even though I work full time and have a part time business (he has a full time job too), we don't have kids but I really want to have 2, he has grabbed my arm and bruised it twice (but not in about a year), we don't enjoy one anther at all, he won't go to church or read his bible any more, he yells at me, if i don't clean to his satisfaction he will take everything and throw it in the living room so i have to clean...  
I am scared to leave because I have always wanted to be a wife and mom and feel like if I divorce him that I won't meet someone before I go into menopause and can no longer have children.

[wildflower77]

heh...I didn't even look at the date.  Sorry, new here.

[Judy246]

It's an old post, but WOW did it get out thread from helping this lady to a religious debate.

[mami1323]

wildflower this is a post from 2007, I can guarantee that this op doesn't come back to check this post.

[wildflower77]

Wow...how funny that a post about a woman that's being abused by her husband turns into a debate about the existence of God.  Let's try to stay focused people!  LOL

Anyway, want2behappy, I am in a 8 year marriage (ten yr relationship) with a man who has mentally and emotionally abused me.  I am just, within the past couple of years, realizing it isn't fair to me or my children to stay in this relationship and I am separating from him.  He also criticizes me, puts me down, makes crude jokes at my expense...everything you are describing.  It's possible for a man to change, but it takes something drastic to open his eyes.  Counseling never worked for us because he felt like he was being attacked.  I too felt like maybe there was something I had done wrong for the longest time.  That is his passive-aggressive beahvior making you feel that way.  "Crazy-making", if you will.  Google passive-aggressive and read up on it.  You'll be amazed how much it fits your husband to a "T".

My advice to you is, tell him you want a trial separation and move out.  If he really loves you, he will see that you are serious and he will change his ways.  If not, then you need to go on with your life and find someone who respects you for who you are.

Good Luck hon,
wildflower77

[singforjoy]

whether you believe it's fiction or not, I still think you'd find it interesting....

[barn babe]

Since I refuse to have a bible in my home or pay good money for one, I'll see if I can check one out of the library.

Thanks for the recommendation - I've always enjoyed fiction.

[singforjoy]

I think you would find it very interesting to read about Paul in the Bible...if you haven't already. Seriously, I'm not trying to be a smart butt or anything..... I just think you would enjoy reading about his life. If he were living today the two of you could have some very interesting conversations about religious and spiritual things. He was QUITE the orator....one of the very best. He was also an author, a great debater, such as yourself,  ;-)  ....a perfectionistic, driven but very focused man.  Paul is one of my favorite bible characters...pretty fascinating.

[barn babe]

Which part of the separation between church and state doesn

[AHP84]

Not a problem.  ;-)  God bless!

[singforjoy]

I can sense your sincerity and believe you are a wonderful person who truly wants the best...God's best...for people. Thank you.

[barn babe]

LMFAO!

"Selective literalism" in action, folks. Check this gem out:

"Yes, divorce is a sin, according to the bible, because it is breaking an oath to God. BUT my point is this....... because we are God's children, I believe with all my heart that he does not intend for us to stay in an abusive relationship."

Hilarious. This poster has "interpreted" a passage of this mythology to fit her worldview. The authoritarian in the flowing robes says "divorce is a sin," but, it's okay for "her" or anybody she "advises" not to follow this particular "passage."

That's called cherrypicking, "re-interpreting," distorting, or simply ignoring what they choose to overlook in order to fit their own subjective viewpoint.

You either conform to the "tenets" of your book of fantasy completely, or we can all agree that it's a wash. You can't have it both ways, people.

Hypocrisy doesn't begin to describe you folks. Really.

This place is crawling with magical thinkers.

[singforjoy]

Want2bhappy, I just want you to be happy and at peace. I am sorry you have been hurt and that you are carrying this burden..... most of us are just wanting to carry some of it for you. Just weigh it all and do as God leads you....
"For I know the plans I have for you says the Lord, plans for good and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jeremiah 29:11

[singforjoy]

My bestfriend went through a divorce 1 1/2 years ago. I've never seen someone suffer so much. Her husband left her because of differences in spiritual beliefs....if I told you the specifics you'd laugh because it's so ridiculous. He was becoming physically abusive and is literally mentally disturbed, but he just wanted out.  (Both of his parents were in institutions at his age.) My friend and her x-husband both attended a Christian college which turned out to be extremely legalistic... which was part of the reason he divorced my friend. I HATE legalism. RULES AND REGULATIONS.  I am a follower of Jesus Christ, but I've come to realize that IT'S NOT ABOUT RELIGION, IT'S ABOUT RELATIONSHIP.
  
I just want to say this to want2behappy....
I have never been for divorce. The bible even says that God hates it. I've been married for 24 years and have worked through a lot....... but while walking through the divorce with my friend I realized something very important and that is.....GOD LOVES HIS CHILDREN no matter what mistakes we've made, are making or will make. Jesus died in our place for our past, present and future sins.  Yes, divorce is a sin, according to the bible, because it is breaking an oath to God. BUT my point is this....... because we are God's children, I believe with all my heart that he does not intend for us to stay in an abusive relationship. He is a father...our Heavenly Father. No earthly father who truly loves his kids would advise a child to stay in an abusive relationship...nor would  your Heavenly Father! He WANTS you to be SAFE,  believe me.
My thoughts are that you separate from this man and ask him to get godly counsel....separation can sometimes get a person's attention before an actual divorce. I've seen it happen several times. If divorce does come down the road, you will be able to say you did all you could do to save the marriage. While you are on your own get all the support you can through prayer, a good/supportive bible believing church ... Ask the pastor if he knows of a older and wise woman who can walk through this adversity with you. Read the Psalms for comfort. Psalm 91 is great...  
Over time you will know what to do....God will give you peace. My bestfriend is surviving on her own because she had no options and you will do fine if you have to do the same.

Everything is going to be okay.  BIG HUGS!!!!!!!!!

[singforjoy]

Thank you.

[AHP84]

Your selected quote from Singforjoy says nowhere in it that Want2bhappy should get a divorce. It just says that God loves his children and does not intend for us to stay in an abusive relationship.

A few sentences later, Singforjoy says, "My thoughts are that you separate from this man and ask him to get godly counsel....separation can sometimes get a person's attention before an actual divorce. I've seen it happen several times. If divorce does come down the road, you will be able to say you did all you could do to save the marriage."

HOWEVER, nowhere in the Bible does it say that divorce is a sin. It is just not recommended. Malachi 2:16 says that God hates divorce. God does not tell us to sin. Hating the action is not the same as it being a sin.

Singforjoy has not made "selective literalism." Perhaps there was just a misunderstanding.

You then tell Christians, "You either conform to the 'tenets' of your book of fantasy completely, or we can all agree that it's a wash. You can't have it both ways, people."

If you go back through this post and re-read my comments to Want2bhappy (#10, #11, and #15), you'll see that I've pointed out the "tenets" of the Holy Bible and divorce. Want2bhappy has Biblical justification for divorce, but also to remain in the marriage if she wishes. At this point, it is entirely up to Want2bhappy.

[misscloey]

Jerry who? I couldn't give a rats *** about Jerry Falwell, much to your dismay. All your rambling about evolution and apes means nothing to me. Actually there is proof that God exists everyday. I guess that you never experienced the miracle of childbirth or watching someone that you love pass away so peacefully. But, then I guess you wouldn't contribute any of these things to God. All I can say is that I feel sorry for you. Oh yeah, one more thing, GOD LOVES YOU!  

[freakin-natural]

I believe... God exist.. Though i dont go to church, dont have any fixed religion.  Religion does messes people up... But God, I for sure believes in Him.. Just look at those people in times of trouble and you'll hear Them calling for God to help them, do they believe in Him?  Of course, its not just an expresison, its something we do deep within.  When all we can do is asked for God's grace, even if we care less,  we pray. Even criminals do..

but then,  If physical evidence is what we should base it to then i guess God doesnt exist..

But there a thing called "FAITH" which absolutely means believing and trusting without seeing it.  I believe in God and not on any religion made up by man.

god bless all people.. strong and weak.

[misscloey]

Unicorns are mythology, God is not! I did not want to start an argument with you. I believe in God and you do not, end of story. I do not really know if there is, so called "proof" of his existence.You could possibly be correct that there is no proof, this is where faith is derived from. I do not believe that believing in God makes me unstable, or any of those other harsh words you used. I am not a bible banger and do not even attend church. I think that religion is a complete mess. I do believe in God, I do not really care if you agree or disagree with me, I appreciate your opinion and your perspective.

[barn babe]

"Actually there is proof that God exists everyday."

LMAO.  Objective evidence, "cloey." I'm talking objective physical evidence. Don't insult us with comments about "miracles" of childbirth and death, when both of these are normal biological states.  

You never answered my question, "cloey." Do you believe in unicorns? There's no evidence available that these mythical creatures exist, is there? Why is believing in a mythical authoritarian patriarch any different from believing that unicorns exist? There's no sound evidence for either one of these creatures actually being real, is there? I mean, I'm open to hearing it. If you say your god exists, then I'm interested in hearing about where the f*ck this clown resides. No person who believes in religious myth that I've ever  interacted with has EVER been able to prove that their god exists. Never. Not once has anybody ever said, here's the objective physical proof that this guy exists. Oh, yeah, they twist themselves into knots talking about miracle this and prayer that and joy within themselves, and all the rest of the subjective claptrap that they try and make into their objective  reality.

Why can't you folks just admit  that you've been manipulated? That you have an emotional dependence on magical thinking?  There's no need to be "ashamed" of this - just acknowledge it, get help, and get back into  the reality-based world where the rest of us are living not being driven by fear, shame, and guilt.

In the end, my feeling about people like you, "cloey," is that you are emotionally disturbed, mentally deranged. In a sane society, you would be ignored, or treated perhaps, but never taken seriously. There actually is a coded psychiatric diagnosis for delusional thinking. Which pretty much sums up the psychological state of anybody who believes in mythological figures,  including unicorns, the tooth fairy, and bearded old white guys with misogynistic and patriarchal attitudes.

[barn babe]

Cloey, in honor of the death of Jerry Falwell, I thought you might  be interested in reading Rehnquist's opinion in this landmark court case, Hustler Magazine, Inc., v. Jerry Falwell (1988).  

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/hustler.html

I can summarize it for you: This is the landmark Supreme Court case that made parody protected speech in this country. Thanks to your guy Falwell,  the legal world and the entertainment/communications industry  were altered FOREVER.  

What did this case do?  Essentially, "cloey," it put to rest the notion that you can win damages against someone for hurting your feelings. When it  concerns a public figure like Falwell, you can only prove libel  if someone makes a false statement of  fact that they know to be untrue, or recklessly disregards whether it's true, and only if it causes them harm.  

Larry Flynt lost the first two rounds. Falwell asked for millions  and was awarded $200,000. Nobody thought this case would be heard by the Supremes, but Flynt refused to settle and petitioned it to the S.Ct. They heard the case, and their decision was UNANIMOUS. All nine judges ruled in Larry Flynt's favor.

Thanks to Falwell, celebrities, politicians - anyone - is fair game, and the T.V. shows, comedy sketches, comedy routines, and other venues of entertainment reflect this and are a main staple of many programs.

So I guess one good thing did come out of Falwell's existence, eh "cloey?"

[barn babe]

"God, does exist and he will help you in your times of need as you well know"

Wow. Unbelievable. Just...unbelievable.

[barn babe]

Uh, yes, I came from apes, as did all of you folks, too. Fell out of the trees, got up on our hindlegs, and evolved from there. What's not to like about that? As a result of the massive amount of evidence for evolution accumulated over the last two centuries, we can safely conclude that evolution has occurred and continues to occur.  All life forms, including people, evolved from earlier species.  Furthermore, all still-living species of organisms continue to evolve today.  

I don't believe in the mythological god b.s. for the same reason that I don't believe in unicorns. Do you believe in unicorns, "cloey?"  As I said  to another poster around here somewhere, please tell us you don't believe in unicorns, otherwise  we may have to slap a DSM-IV psychiatric diagnosis on you that might override even your densely delusional thinking about a bearded patriarch "rescuing" the original poster in this thread. There's no evidence that unicorns exist, is there? No. Show me the evidence that your god, a Muslim's god, or any other religious fanatic's "god" exists.

In other news, your hero Jerry Falwell is dead. As a doornail. Now I haven't given this a**hole much thought in years, but I must say I felt a sense of relief at knowing he bit the dust.

[misscloey]

I read somewhere that you are an attorney. It really surprises me that someone who is obviously very well versed and extremely articulate as well as incredibly smart, can be so nieve and condesending. Where do you think YOU came from? The apes? I have read many of your postings and to be honest they are always very entertaining and I must admit that I agree with you ALOT on several issues. May I ask you, WHY you don't believe in God? Like I have said many times before on this forum, I do not necessarily follow any religion, for alot of the same reasons that you have explained, but not believing in God just baffles me.We are all entitled to our own opinions and I respect yours, but it just really makes me wonder what you believe in, if not God.          

[misscloey]

Wow, that was very well said. Wantto be, this is the best advice I have read on this post thus far. God, does exist and he will help you in your times of need as you well know, do not let these church memebers sway your decision to take care of yourself and do what is best. I will be the first to say always honor your wedding vows to the bitter end, although your husband has not been honoring his in any way. God will always love you, you are obviously a good and faithful christian, please do the right thing.