Naturethroid and bad RT3 conversion. Advice?

[leilajax]

I have a really low FT3/RT3 ratio (11.5) because my RT3 is elevated.  I've been debilitatingly fatigued lately and was wondering if 1/2 grain of Naturethroid would make, what is already a bad conversion, worse?  I am currently not on any thyroid meds as values are in range. I've heard it could help, but I also heard that if it is an adrenal problem it could get worse with T3.

[Red_Star]

Typically a food intolerance is diagnosed with an elimination diet but i did read about the hydrogen breath testing for lactose intolerance and fructose malabsorption.

Lactose intolerance is a listed symptom in one of my hypothyroid books but not sure if there are any studies done on this. A small study was done in 1991 for Graves - "Reversible lactose malabsorption and intolerance in Graves' disease"....

"Lactose malabsorption occurred in nine patients with Graves' disease. In seven patients who repeated these studies, lactose malabsorption normalized in three, symptoms induced by lactose improved in two and were unchanged in two."

Hmmm

[leilajax]

Interesting!  Is that something an allergist would test for?  I went to an allergist who blew all my problems off on hashi (which is probably accurate), but the fact that he wasn't willing to test me for anything irritated me.  I honestly feel a little worse after I drink my daily ensure.  It's the only thing I ingest that has high milk content (besides the occasional pizza), bc of my low calcium diet.  You're making me wonder if my body is trying to tell me something about cow's milk.  I switched to using almond milk this week, but there's still the ensure.  6 months to see a difference is insane!!!  The rate at which I try this and that I would never know if it was cow's milk or not:(

[Red_Star]

My mama had post nasal drip 24/7 for 2 years so it took 6 months lactose free diet to get rid of that symptom. She has seen 4 ENT specialists for her permanently blocked ears (7 years now and i have to suspect hypothyroidism) - but also she mentioned to every specialist her 24/7 post nasal drip - no diagnosis. O_o I have lactose intolerance. Should i have another ultrasound and they ask me to drink 1 1/2 liters of water and 1/2 liter of milk..i'm drinking 2 liters of water. Just sayin. :)

[leilajax]

I actually had a parathyroid scan at the end of march bc my endo said that though my PTH was within normal range, it was going up.  She said PTH should be trying to compensate with the high blood calcium by going down.  Parathyroid scan came back "inconclusive". When I asked what that meant they said, "there is a tumor the size of a grain of rice.  We need to do a RAI scan now to superimpose the images.  That will tell us exactly what is going on."  However, I had a ct scan of neck and chest with contrast in jan and just had to have an angiogram bc an intern at Hopkins thinks I have vasculitis on top of all of this, so contrast has iodine and RAI scan must be done 4 months apart from any other contrast scan.  I wish they'd just cut the thyroid out!  At least then maybe I would stop swinging from hyper to hypo and vice versa, and while they're in there they can get that parathyroid, too!  Ugg!

Thanks for the link gimel!  And for your thoughts and suggestions.  I am really trying to go gluten free, cow's milk free, and low sugar.  Hopefully that will make a difference until all of the diagnoses fall into place.

Jackie, things haven't improved at all since abx!  Symptoms are so bad that I got a call from Hopkins yesterday.  PCP and intern there discussed Lyme with an infectious disease specialist who wants to see me next Wednesday.  Not getting my hopes up that anything will come of it though.  Wish I could somehow get my Igenex Lyme results and saliva adrenal results from doctor by then.  They would be really useful to have in my giant binder of "mystery diagnosis 2011-2013".

[Jackie419]

You know, I did feel better (as in -not well, but better) when i got my D higher and it may even be part of my increased fatigue of late with me going from 71 to 43. I am having a horrible time with my thumb/hand, like tendonitis or carpal tunnel. I sensed the decline in my D when that started up a couple of months ago, had even increased my D before i even saw my results-so i am getting better at spotting what does what with me.

Do any of the parathyroid things ring true with you? If you search around it mentions other levels that may be high or low and maybe you have some of those on your other tests...i am very curious.

I have looked at hyPOparathyroidism for myself, but then just realized i eat horribly so i have low calcium, my bad :)

Some of your symptoms do remind me of things i experienced a few years ago when i was hypo (and didn't know it) and having some big adrenal issues in addition to deficiencies. Fight to get that calcium checked out as you really need to resolve that or rule it out so you can get some Vit D in your life, it will make a big difference.

How did you feel before the antibiotics as compared to now?

[gimel]

With that knowledge, you may want to hold off on any Vitamin D supplementation.   The reason I say this is outlined in this link.  

http://www.parathyroid.com/low-vitamin-d.htm

With calcium tests results showing consistently at the high end of the range and over, I think you need to do some additional tests to rule in or out the possibility of parathyroid issues.  I know that the PTH test is not always conclusive, but it would be a good place to start.

Also, have a look at this list of symptoms that can occur with hyperparathyroidism and see if they relate.

http://www.parathyroid.com/parathyroid-symptoms.htm

[leilajax]

You're so funny!  <3 you!
My docs are really not addressing any vit deficiency.  I am "within range", so they say it's fine.
Did you feel any better once your vit D was up?
Keep me updated with tomorrow's results!
Regarding your recent infection coming back, btw, my head is pounding from what feels like sinusitis and I've been on abx for almost 2 months now!  I feel your frustration.

[leilajax]

June 2012- 9.9
Nov 2012-10.4
Jan 2013-10.2
Feb 2013-10.5
All same range (8.6-10.2)

Rereading through results noticed that my vit D is up a little.  This time last year it was 25.3 (32-89).

[gimel]

You mentioned having a high calcium test result, at 10.5.  Is this the only time you have had a high calcium test result?  If you have others, please post those.  

[Jackie419]

I feel like an @ss for not having a discussion about all of that in our chats. I had severe deficiencies and a high Rt3 one year ago. Including iron. I thought when all of that came back up, my Rt3 would go down but it didn't seem to, unless there is a long lag-time and IF my last rt3 test was right...re-testing tomorrow.

Your D is horrible! We are all different BUT I had gotten mine from an 8 to 71 in about 8-9 months by taking a script, 50,000iu AND 2,000 to 5000iu per day in addition. Once I hit 71, i knocked off the extra 5,000 and stuck with the script of D2 (50,000iu per week) and 2 1/2 months later my Vit D is 43!! Yikes! I wish I knew about the calcium (mine is low).

I think you are going to have a big impact on how you feel with your iron as well. I am hoping you can get shots if at all possible.

As far as B12, since you could use more and I have found that the "chewable" ones absorb best- i just swallow those- but just know our bodies absorb those better than the ones with all the fillers and have had good and quick results from those.

Also, as far as T3 med, some use it to treat adrenals, although as you know I am wading through all of that right now myself.

Keep us up to date with your coming test and I will ,of course, let you know if I get anywhere myself!

[leilajax]

Wonderful advice!  Thank you so much!  I'm going to have to see if my holistic md will be willing to give me iron shots bc my PCP says my iron and ferritin are fine and didn't need any supplements.  The Vitron C was just something I decided to do on my own.
I am wondering if I have high calcium 10.5 (8.6-10.2), should I be taking vit D?  I had heard that vit D would cause major issues with that excess calcium floating around, that's why I have not been taking it.
Will step up on the B12, definitely.
Once I get saliva results hopefully things will be much clearer.  The iron information that you have seems like it will make a great difference though.  Thanks, again!

[gimel]

From your Reverse T3 and free T3 levels, I think the first priority needs to be to reduce your Reverse T3 level.  There are many possible causes for excess conversion of T4 to RT3, including low ferritin as one of the most likely sources.  Low ferritin can cause the following.

• General lethargy  
• Unusual fatigue after exercise  
• Pica (compulsive eating of non-food items)  
• Pagophagia (compulsive eating of ice)
• Depression
• General weakness
• Fast heartbeat
• Palpitations
• Loss of libido
• Brain fog
• Hair loss
• Faintness and breathlessness
• Dizziness
• Long or unusually heavy menstrual periods    

Signs:

    • Paleness of the skin or eyes  
    • Intestinal problems
    • Cognitive problems such as impaired learning ability and spoon nails (thin  and concave fingernails)


Following is a quote I ran across.

"Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3 conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (238-242). Thus, iron deficiency, as indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in diminished intracellular T3 levels."

So you need badly to get your ferritin level increased.  For women it should be about 80.  For the quickest relief for that I suggest getting the doctor to give you shots, along with iron supplement.  

Next, your Vitamin D is way too low.  I suggest supplements about 2000 IU daily of D3, to raise your level to around middle of the range.   These are symptoms of low Vitamin D.


    Fatigue
    General muscle pain and weakness
    Muscle cramps
    Joint pain
    Chronic pain
    Weight gain
    High blood pressure
    Restless sleep
    Poor concentration
    Headaches
    Bladder problems
    Constipation or diarrhea


Next, your B12 level is too low to be effective for many people.  Low B12 can contribute to the following symptoms.

A deficiency of vitamin B12 can lead to vitamin B12 deficiency anemia. A mild deficiency may cause only mild, if any, symptoms. But as the anemia worsens it may causes symptoms such as:

    weakness, tiredness or light-headedness  
    rapid heartbeat and breathing
    pale skin
    sore tongue
    easy bruising or bleeding, including bleeding gums
    stomach upset and weight loss
    diarrhea or constipation

If the deficiency is not corrected, it can damage the nerve cells. If this happens, vitamin B12 deficiency effects may include:

    tingling or numbness in fingers and toes
    difficulty walking
    mood changes or depression
    memory loss, disorientation, and dementia

So, at this point, I don't think you need to be thinking about thyroid med.  You need to correct the above areas and see how your Free T3/Reverse T3 ratio changes, and how you feel afterward.  


  

[leilajax]

Sorry that was meant to be address to "gimel"!  My phone auto corrected my typing!

[leilajax]

Thanks for your response!  
TSH 1.6 (.4-4.5)
FT3 3.1 (2.3-4.2)
FT4 1.3 (.8-1.8)
RT3 27 (7-24)
Vit D, 25-OH, total 39 (30-100)
(All above done in March)
Was told iron was fine, but can't find result.  I do have ferritin, though.
Ferritin 10 (10-154) - November 2012
Have been taking Vitron C (iron and c supplement, since)
B12, serum 511(200-1100) - November 2012
Waiting on 24 hr adrenal saliva test results

Other symptoms are tough to discern as I am still waiting for extensive Lyme results, but here goes:
Fatigue to the point of nausea
Sinus pressure (chronic sinusitis) and headache
Weakness and muscle atrophy
Severe dry skin
Hair loss
Pain in the bottom of feet
Blurred vision
Swelling in hands/fingers
Odd chest/esophageal/throat pain (tight, squeezing, pressure, swelling)
Constipation
Stiff neck and back
Tightness on stomach
Tremor
Most recently mild night sweats.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you so much!

[gimel]

I know you have posts on several other threads, and maybe the info is there, but since you started this new thread, would you mind posting here your thyroid related lab test results and reference ranges shown on the lab report?  Also, if tested for Vitamin D, B12 and ferritin, please post those.

What other symptoms do you have besides fatigue?