High TSH and Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies, but normal T3 and T4

[brodyc]

I'm a little confused about my test results, and I'm hoping that I can get some insight from the community.
Here are my results

TSH is 5.76
FT3 is 3.0
FT4 is 1.1
Thyroblobulin Auto Antibody is 27.9
Thyroid Peroxidase Auto Antibody is 453
Thyroid is enlarged, but I hadn't noticed until my Dr. discovered this (and sent me for an ultrasound to confirm).

What does this mean?  Since my T3 and T4 are in normal range, putting me on replacement therapy wouldn't really do anything would it?
Also, my blood test revealed a vitamin D deficiency.  If was 17.

[brodyc]

Thanks for the additional info.

The ranges on the lab report are as follows.
FT3 - (2.3-4.2) pg/ml  Mine was 3.0
FT4 - (0.7-1.5) pg/dl   Mine was 1.1

I'm not sure about the symptoms.  Once the Dr. did the initial test for TSH, and said that I probably had Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, I did some research, and in hindsight, have some of the symptoms.  Inability to concentrate, callused heels, varying emotional levels (depression/mania/anger), low energy.
I never noticed the inflammation of the thyroid though.

Again, thanks for the info.

[898_1]

Your TSH is above the new limit 3.3 and even above old limit 5.0
So this condition can be considered as subclinical hypo (rare among the males)

[gimel]

Just because thyroid test results are in the so-called "normal" ranges does not mean that is adequate for YOU.  First, everyone is different and react differently to thyroid hormone levels.  Second, the ranges are far too broad due to the erroneous way they were established.  As a result, many members, myself included, say that relief from hypo symptoms required Free T3 in the upper third of its range and Free T4 around the middle of its range.  

So, with Hashi's as the probable cause it is only a matter  of time until your levels drop further and you start having even more severe hypo symptoms.  Many doctors like to wait until a Hashi's patient gets to that situation before prescribing thyroid meds.  Other doctors like to start earlier in order to try and maintain the patient's thyroid hormone levels and prevent symptoms.  

A good thyroid doctor will treat a hypo patient clinically by testing and adjusting Free T3 and Free T4 as necessary to relieve symptoms, without being constrained by resultant TSH levels.  You can get some good insight into clinical treatment from this letter written by a good thyroid doctor for patients that he sometimes consults with after initial tests and evaluation.  The letter is then sent to the participating doctor of the patient to help guide treatment.  In the letter, please note the statement, "the ultimate
criterion for dose adjustment must always be the clinical response of the patient."

http://hormonerestoration.com/files/ThyroidPMD.pdf

So you need to take care of the Vitamin D problem.  You need to make sure your B12 and ferritin levels are well up in their ranges.  And you need to find out if your doctor is going to be willing to treat you clinically as described above.  If not, then you will need to find a good thyroid doctor that will do so.

[brodyc]

Here were the results of my additional blood tests.  These seem to be in normal ranges.

FERRITIN - 101 ng/ml
VITAMIN B12 - 413 pg/ml

[gimel]

Glad to see that your ferritin and Vitamin B12 are adequate.  Now your efforts need to be focused on the Hashi's.  There are two basic approaches to treatment.  Some doctors like to wait until test results are exceed range limits (especially TSH), and symptoms are overt, before starting the patient on meds.  Other doctors will start the patient on thyroid meds earlier in order to avoid the worst of hypo symptoms.  I know which one I would prefer.

So your issue becomes one of getting your current doctor to treat you clinically, as described above, or finding a doctor that will do so.  You need a doctor that treats patients, not lab test results.

[vedant18]

my wife recently detected with thyroid problem her T3 value is 3.29  pg/ml   and T4 value is 0.69  ng/dl    and TSH value is 25.21 microIU/ml  is there any problem with this value, some time she is suffring from back pain, weakness, bone pain and breathing problem weather this is because of high TSH value ,  weather any remidy on this deseases at present she is taking LETHYROX 50 Tablet once before breakfast , weather this tablet is sufficent to recover this problem. please guide which diet should we follow.

[vedant18]

my sons T3 VALUE IS 162 ng/dl   range is 60-200  and  T4  value is 13.3  range is  4.5 -12   micro gm / dl     TSH is 2.31 micro I U /ml   range is 0.3  -5.5  let me know weather he is having any problem with this reading

[gimel]

It would be very helpful if you can give us the reference ranges  for the Free t3 and Free T4 tests results for your wife.  Since she is having some symptoms that can relate to thyroid issues, I expect that both Free T3 and free T4 may be too low in the range for her.  TSH is a pituitary hormone that is affected by many things, such that it is totally inadequate as a diagnostic by which to medicate a hypothyroid patient.  Also, be aware that TSH does not cause symptoms.  It is only a poor indicator of thyroid status.  Free T3 is the most important test, since Free T3 largely regulates metabolism and many other body functions.  Also, Free T3 has been shown to correlate best with hypo symptoms, while Free T4 and TSH did not correlate at all.

Also, since hypothyroid patients also are frequently  too low in the range for Vitamin D, B12 and ferritin, I suggest that she should be tested for those as well.

The whole point of thyroid treatment is to relieve symptoms.  A good thyroid doctor will test and adjust Free T3 and Free T4 as necessary to relieve symptoms, without being constrained by resultant TSH levels.  

It was not clear if your wife's test results were from before starting the medication,  or after.   At any rate, her meds will need to be adjusted to relieve symptoms.  So you will need to get the doctor to agree with clinical treatment for symptoms, rather than just based on test results.

Each time she goes in for tests, you should make sure it includes Free T3 and Free T4.  Also should find out her levels for Vitamin D, B12 and ferritin.  If you will get those done and post here, along with their reference ranges shown on the lab report, members will be glad to help interpret and advise further.  

[gimel]

As for your son, I see nothing in those test results to be concerned about.  Was he having symptoms that caused you to get him tested?

[vedant18]

regarding my son he studing in std 3rd and his weight is 35kg but i never seen him complaining about tirdness or bones paining and i not realise any change in his sound because of T4 value is 13.3 and range is 4.5 - 12 micro gm /dl i think this value is slightly higher i would like to know weather this value affect for his weight gaining or he is normal doctor says not to worry, my wife thyroid report are as follows    free T3 3.29     RANGE  1.4 -4.4 pg/ml, free T4  0.69  RANGE  0.8 -1.8 NG/DL  ,  TSH  25.21  RANGE  0.45 - 4.5 micro IU/ml  i would like to know  weather above  value affect to her body symptoms which i already explained on my previous question and let me know LETHYROX 50 tablet is sufficient  for solved out this problem  or should i think about homeophathy medecine please guide me in this connection

[gimel]

I agree with your doctor regarding your son.  Your wife's Free T4 level needs to be increased to around the middle of the range.  The Lethyrox 50 is a step in the right direction.  After she has been on that dosage for about 6-8 weeks, it would be good to go back and test again to see the result, and see if she needs to increase dosage.  While there I would also recommend that she should be tested for Vitamin D, B12, magnesium, ferritin, and a full iron test panel.  

When test results are available, please post them along with reference ranges, and members will be glad to help interpret and advise further.  

[vedant18]

thanks for your valuable guidence for me , i definatly send my wifes test result after 6 - 8 weeks

[angie35903]

My tsh is  5.8
Tpo  116.9
T3   2.75
T4   .72
I did at 1 time have graves disease, had to have radiation. Was put on synthroid for about 16 years and then my t4 was just over line on high side and t3 was over line on low side. So found Dr that finally put me on armour thyroid and feel much better, but levels are saying I'm hypo but I am gaining weight like crazy even though I eat healthy. What is going on with me

[gimel]

Assuming those are Free T3 and free T4 results, what were the ranges shown on the lab report?  Do you have symptoms besides the weight gain?  Have you been tested for Vitamin D, B12 and ferritin?  If so , please post those as well.

[angie35903]

D is good, b12 is high and iron is very good, free t4 range is .7-1.48, free t3 1.71-3.71,tsh is .35-4.94, too is 0-34

[angie35903]

Other symptoms are hair falls out can't stop gaining weight, very little to almost no body hair, eye lashes fall out, sleepy all the time, no sex drive not to mention just feel numb in that area. I now have developed 3 bulging disks in neck, with moderate degenerative disk disease. It's like my body is being attacked. Can a person have 2 autoimmune thyroid diseases years apart. Had graves disease and now can this be hashimoto

[gimel]

Please post the actual results for D, B12 and iron.  

From your test results you are still hypothyroid.  Even though the results are within the so called "normal" ranges that does not mean they are optimal for you.  The ranges are far too broad due to the erroneous methods by which they are established.  

A good thyroid doctor will treat a hypothyroid patient clinically by testing and adjusting Free T3 and free T4 as necessary to relieve symptoms without being constrained by resultant TSH levels.  Symptom relief should be all important, not just test results.  You can get some good insight from this link  written by a good thyroid doctor.  

http://www.hormonerestoration.com/Thyroid.html

In the link note the following.  "Thyroid tests must be interpreted in relation to the patient's symptoms. The FT4 and FT3 tests must be interpreted in relation to each other. A relatively high FT3 may compensate for a relatively low FT4. If the FT4 is below the middle of the 1 to 1.6ng/dL range, the FT3 should usually be greater than 3.5pg/ml to assure thyroid sufficiency (range 2 to 4.4pg/ml)."  Clearly your results are less than optimal, so you are having hypothyroid symptoms.  

[angie35903]

What is a good range for the tsh, tpo, ft4, ft3 in order to drop the 40lbs I have gained in about the last 2-3 months

[gimel]

TSH is basically a useless test when already taking thyroid hormone.  So ignore TSJH.  The TPO test is meaningless when you don't have a thyroid gland.  So ignore that.  The important tests are the biologically active thyroid hormones, Free T4 and Free T3.  The following is a quote from the good thyroid doctor.

"in tests done about 24 to 28 hrs after their last daily dose, most people on adequate NDT therapy have a suppressed TSH. They usually have FT4 levels that are 1 to 1.3ng/dL, and free T3 levels that are rather high in the range or even slightly above the range. The higher FT3 level compensates for the lower FT4 levels on NDT."

In addition since hypo patients are frequently too low in the ranges for Vitamin D, B12 and ferritin, those need to be optimized also.  D should be 55-60, B12 in the very upper end of its range and ferritin should be 70 minimum.  How do your results compare to those levels?

[angie35903]

B-12 1999
Folate 10.7
Ferritin 29
D 48

[gimel]

The B12 is higher than needed.  If supplementing, reduce the dosage.  D is a bit lower than optimal, so you could supplement with 1000 IU of D3 daily.  The worst is your ferritin.  It needs to be 70 minimum, so you need to supplement with a good form of iron to optimize.  Here is a quote on that.

"Iron deficiency

Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3 conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (238-242). Thus, iron deficiency, as indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present."

So, in addition to supplementing as mentioned, you need to further increase your thyroid dosage to get your Free T4 up to middle of its range, and Free T3 in the upper end of its range.  By the way, to avoid false high results when taking T3 meds it is best to defer the morning dose until after the blood draw for tests.  

[angie35903]

It's funny about the iron with me, a Dr told me years ago that I need to donate blood because my iron was high. I found out later all they ever checked was my hemoglobin levels and it was always on high side so they assumed my iron was high. It's sad that I had donated for several years and I had finally got to the point of being really sick and not knowing why. So another Dr checked my complete iron levels and it come back that it was 2 and my hemoglobin was 16.1. He put me on an alert, that was about 8 months ago.

[angie35903]

What would cause no longer having the flight or fight syndrome when being in situations that should trigger it. I use to experience it when placed in those positions. I haven't experienced any of those feelings in over 2 years. I asked endo Dr and I was brushed off.