Those of us on Armour and working on dosages and increases

[laura1967]

I thought it would be nice to have a thread of all of us on Armour that have recently started or have been on for a while. We can talk about our increases and symptoms.....how we are doing. Easy way to keep in contact with each other and support each other as we sssslllllooooowwwwwlllly and patiently find our optimum dosage! I think from what I have read and what Stella has said, that patience is the key with Armour. It is not an overnight fix at finding proper dosages. Many of these conversion charts are incorrect and our doctors are not educated at how to prescribe and treat with it. So, we have to educated ourselves and gently educated our doctors on how to medicate us. LOL Sometimes easier said than done when they are use to the synthroid dosages and treatment.
And once again......SSSTTTTEEEELLLLAAAA.......we need you and thank you for you advice and help!!!!   :)

[Linda1068]

I don't take Armour. I just started taking Synthroid.  A guess a thread just for Armour would be good. Is Armour better than Synthroid?

[ChitChatNine]

Armour is different than Synthroid .. most people start with Synthroid and if they cannot get regulated switch to Armour ... I'm not too well versed, but wanted to say Hello.  I am sure our other CL Stella will stop by to share some more info as she is on Armour!

WELCOME TO THE COMMUNITY,

Cheryl

[laura1967]

Armour supplies both T3 and T4 along with T1 and T2. For some it works better and some it doesn't. I think it depends on the individual and if they have a doctor that knows how to prescribe it and dosage it.
I just increased to 75 mgs on saturday. I do seem to have a little more energy with this increase. We will see......

[stella5349]

OK I just got saw this.

What's up and what do you need to know?

I'll hang around a bit today

[laura1967]

Hi stella...i just thought it would be nice for us on armour to keep in easier contact than with all the separate notes...lol  There are quite a few of us that are going through increases, etc.  I will send them notes and let them know about this thread. And I wanted to put out a thank you to you from all of us for all your help with our armour questions. Hugs!

[bretbunch]

I think this is a great idea.  This is really good for me because I am normally not a very patient person!!  I have been on Armour for almost two months now and my current endo doc told me she has never switched anyone from Synthroid to Armour, until me.  So, needless to say, she doesn't understand how to properly increase dosages.  I have learned about Armour from Stella and a website called:  "stopthethyroidmadness.com".  It has some good information about how the dosage changes should work.  My endo initially wanted to start me on 90mg, but I made her change the prescription to 60mg (1 grain) and I have been slowly increasing from there.  It looks like I will have to hold at 105 mg for a little while until my body can handle the change to 120 mg (2 grains).  I am going to a new endo doctor this coming Friday and am looking forward to the appointment.  This one is supposed to be one of the best in Colorado and they do understand Armour Thyroid.  

So...I am feeling that there is hope and that I will be able to trust an endo doc again.  I still feel some hypo symptoms, so I know I'm not on my optimum dose yet and thank goodness I have my hubbie to remind me about the patience I need.   So far, the change to Armour has been potivie for me and it seems that my body has responded well to it.

[laura1967]

Yeah Bretbunch!! You found the thread!!   Yes it is very hard to find docs that know how to dosage and increase. I know mine doesn't....I had called her and asked for an increase. Now she wants me to wait 6wks for bloodwork. I was only on 75mcgs synthroid and went into the 3.5 tsh range so i did go hypo again. So, now i am on 75 mg of armour....quite a high dosage for conversion. I haven't had any palps or hyper feelings whatsoever. Hmmm.
I had increased from 60 to 75 a week ago saturday. I do feel a little more energy. I am still experiencing a lot of visual disturbance with some dizziness and a lot of neck pain in the back of neck.

[iunderstand69]

Hey Laura I got your message about this thread.  I don't know if I would be good to be on this right now.  I am currently on 4 grains of armour which equates to 240 mg,  I am also pregnant so this is going to change drastically over the next 7 months.  Although, if there is anything I can help anyone with or if they have any questions, I will be more than happy to help.

Thanks,
Sally

[laura1967]

Sally-You are now finally at good levels so you will be a positive influence for us. :)  Congrats on your pregnancy....I felt great when i was pregnant. I hope you do too! I know some of us that are just starting out on armour are wondering how long it took.....any symptoms still, a lot of affirmation to us beginners....lol
Thank you for joining us!
Laura

[iunderstand69]

Laura,
Were you having thyroid issues when you were pregnant?  Just curious.  One symptom I had when I increased on armour is I had really bad headaches.  Bad, throbbing headaches.  I had to take a migrane pill once a day for about a month.  Then after the month the headaches went away.  I will also tell you that the first day I changed over to armour I felt better!!  I had energy, my hair stopped falling out, started to lose weight, wasn't depressed and my swelling started going down also.  Ask me anything you want and I will try to help.

[jab73]

Hi all,
I have been on Armour for over 2 years, I think coming up on 3.  I am taking 3g (180mg).  From all that I have read it is kinda high.  My numbers, recently, all came back fine, but I feel that I am on a downward spiral of all the "yucky" symptoms again.  I told the Dr. that and he said "well your numbers are just fine".  Anybody have funky periods, like days between cycles increasing due to the hypothyroid stuff?  Mine recently started increasing (days between) and I don't know where to start.  Great idea for a link for Armour.  Anyone else having a lovely time getting their meds?????

[stella5349]

It is very common and normal for Armour patients to increase slowly to sometimes 3-4-5 grains until becoming optimal.

I so far have only been able to go as high as 2 1/2 grains - but recently had to decrease.

I am having some adrenal issues and my thyroid meds have not been responding well. I am supplementing and supporting my adrenals right now - and feeling better too. I am still at the 90 to 120 level of meds still.

Around my period time I dip to 60mgs.

My TSH at my last visit was 0.04 with no hyper symptoms either.

It is very common with Armour increases that the person will get a headache. It depends on the person how bad they are. They last anywhere from 3 days to almost the two weeks until another increase is needed.

Here is how the increase works - IF you have no adrenal issues.

Start a dosage
Remain on that two weeks
Increase 1/4 grain
Remain on that two more weeks
Increase again 1/4 grain
Remain on that two more weeks
Retest.

Log all symptoms - both ways ( the ones going away ) and the headaches if you get them.

The most biologically effective and direct way to take natural desiccated thyroid is sublingually or orally. i.e. you place the tablet under your tongue, or between your gums and inner cheek.

This allows Armour to be absorbed in full dosages and the stomach is no longer needed to process the meds. THis way is also superior in vanishing and acid issues and GI distress from the thyroid patient.

Jab73= those mgs of Armour is not high at all - that should be pretty close to a stable level. You have to remember T3 meds work continously at the same dose - so if you are symptomatic again and small increase may be needed. Are you taking all at once? If so - many Armour patients take it throughout the day - the higher in the morning and the last doasge around 2pm. This keeps everything balanced.

AND our other homones effect Armour meds. If it is time for your period - naturally it throws off some levels - Armour is designed to give you exact T3 all day - every day. SO:

some days you may not needs as much and some you may need more. I have that flexability with my doctor to self dose - IF needed.

It is crutial to learn about supplements while on Armour to support optimal levels. Basically - calcium - magnesium- zinc - and the B's are widely used. If you have adrenal issues as I - Vit C is so important too.

I am totally available to try and help anyone with questions - I haven't been on much - very very busy - ( Which I am glad to say I can keep up since I switched to Armour)  

PM me anytime.

[laura1967]

Stella-I just wanted to add how very important a good B complex is for the adrenals....they should be taken several times a day until your adrenals are stronger....then you continue on 2x per day indefinately. It needs to be the best brand you can find though. I take a liquid b complex from my dr.  Yes the Vit C in large dosage too. I use to have weak adrenals.
Sally- now that i look back on things, I think I had Graves yrs back and probably started after pregnancy. After my baby i went way under weight and had a lot of issues. I had a great pregnancy though.
Jab73- What were your exact numbers? Did it include Free T3? Do you have hashi's as well?

[Karimomof3]

Hi everyone!!  Thanks Laura for starting this thread!!  I have been on Armour for 6 weeks now, a very low dosage (30mg) with no increase.  I have good days and bad.  I am due for bloodwork this week, so I am anxious to see whats going on.  I wish I had a doctor that knew about the increases every two weeks.  I am feeling so stressed over this, I am getting in trouble at work because I cant concentrate (brain fog), so my production has slowed a bit. I have to read and reread things a couple of times before it registers.. I dont want to tell them about the illness because they are laying people off, and I feel like it might influence their decision.  Anyway, I am sure that I am in need of an increase, and will feel really upset if the doctor doesnt think so.  Question... Do you still need to take Armour on an empty stomach like synthroid?  Also,  what about the people who break their dosage up into 2 times a day.  Does it affect your sleep?  I have a terrible time with insomnia and I dont want to add to that.

[stella5349]

No you can take Armour right before or after a meal IF you take it sublingually.

The stomach is not effected at all.

I break my dosages up about 3x's a day and do not take it after 3pm the lastest.

It takes about 2 1/2 hrs to get the T3 moving -

When I took it later - I found restless sleep an issue.

[stella5349]

Thanks for the B reminder :)

I don't know why - but for me - I am so sloppy at maintaining the B's for myself. I get in a kick of taking them and then - for some reason - get sloppy and not stay consistant.

Thanks for reminding me :)

[peggy64]

Enjoyed the info about "it is common and normal" very informative.

How do you increase the armour, if you do have adrenal issues....... I do have adrenal issues......... have been treating them for quite some time now, they seem to be getting better .

I have had problems prior with armour due to the adrenal issues and crashed. I don't want to chance that again.  I need to be able to stay on armour as synthroid was a BIG pain.

Thanks for taking the time to answer these posts.

[laura1967]

Hi Peggy- are you back on Armour? You need to get on a good adrenal support supplement....go to the health food store and ask them for the best. I was on ones from my chiropractor but have used some from health food store. Also like I reminded stella....best form of Complex B's which need to be taken 3 x/day to start. After a month you can cut down to 2x/day. And of course vit c (good form) 2,000 mg per day. These are the critical things to take and stay on for quite a while to build your adrenals.

Kari-So glad to hear from you! Yes it sounds like you desperately need and increase. Why don't you just go in now for your bloodwork a little early....call your doc and tell him you are feeling very hypo and need testing early. The "FOG" is the worst of all of this hypo stuff to me. HUGS!

[peggy64]

Hi laura, I am back on armour. I have been taking adrenal support for about 3 months now. have been doing the b and c for years....also take coconut oil when I can remember. along with selenium and zinc, and a host of other supplements.

I am hoping my adrenals have improved slightly, and are able to tolerate the armour this go round. I am praying anyway.

[laura1967]

I hope so for you Peggy! This time it will work! What made you change back?
If the supplements dont work, you might want to try a bio-identical adrenal  hormone like cortef...i think is the name. Anyway bio identical would be the strongest thing to get those puppies working! Some people the overcounter stuff just isn't strong enough.
Anyway....we are rooting for you!

[peggy64]

Thank you so much!

The synthroid made me have acid reflux that was so bad, I was burning all the way up my throat. Rx prilosec and gaviscon didn't touch it, then it made me start having stomach spasms, and I had to take bentyl and librax for that. And still getting no relief.
I was taking 4 meds to take one. Didn't make sense to me. My poor liver....

Is cortef script? I had heard about Isocort, I think it is OTC.

The supplements I got are enzymatic from Dr. Jacob teitlebaum. They have a day supplement and a nighttime supplement.  Along with about 4 gms of vit C, spread out throughout the day.

This is really getting to be a learning experience, I know that.

[bretbunch]

Hello all.  Peggy--welcome back to Armour and good luck to you.  I think we can all get through this together!!  I know that I really need the support!

I am due to bloodwork this week--on Friday.  This will be my first bloodwork since changing over to Armour.  I have never had my adrenals or Ferritin checked yet.  How would you know if your adrenals aren't working properly?  Are there symptoms that I should be aware of?  I want to make sure that I have the new endo doc do all the bloodwork that I need this week.  Right now I am taking a multi-vitamin and calcium and I'm not sure that if I am taking enough of the right supplements.  I see a lot of discussion about Vitamin B, Vitamin C, etc.  My multi-vitiamin has the following:

Vitamin B6  2 mg
B12  6 mcg
C  120mg
Magnesium  100mg
Zinc  22.5mg

Total Calcium (w/multi and calcium supplements)  1162 mg

Vitamin D  1200 I.U.


One other question--Does anyone know how menpause affects the thyroid medication?  I had a hysterectomy at age 30 and my current endo doc told me that I am in pre-menopause due to my testosterone levels.  

I would like to be as informed as possible when I go to my new doc on Friday.  I still have some hypo symptoms--the upper back and neck pain and some muscle tenderness on the middle of my chest around my ribs in the front and I seem to be a bit emotional still.  Has anyone else had that symptom too?  

[peggy64]

Hi bret,

From my experience, when I started on armour the first time, my adrenals were so depleted. The armour reeks havoc on the adrenals if they are already in poor shape.

I know I have been babying those 2 little things since then. When the adrenal ain't happy,,,,,,,

a good web site is adrenal fatigue *******. It has a lot of good info.
(words together, actual dot, then com)

Another factor is in catching the thyroid disease in its early stage. If not, then the adrenals do double and triple duty. That causes them to play out, so to speak.  For your sake I hope it was not advanced. That was my problem. I had had symptoms for about 18 years, just thought it was stress related. which is what most drs say. I was not knowledgeable about thyroid issues.

if you have any other questions, we will take a stab at them. That is what I love here. I can ask when I need to, and get help. But I am also able to give.

[stella5349]

Actually Peggy Synthroid can be tougher than Armour on the adrenals.

Synthroid forces the body to convert T4 into T3 which strains the adrenals more than assisting them with all ready replacement T3 in Armour.

But if the adrenals are depleted already- due to hypothyroidism - it is a long process to get them back into shape to do their job.

Bret -

Actually you are right on with your supplement intake - but it may be helpful to up your dosages. Many adrenal suffers use :

Vit C - about 1500 to 3000 (bowel tolerance)

all the B's

Magnesium is about 400-500 mgs

Zinc - another wonderful supplement - about 50mg

Also sea salt is wonderful to get into your diet when the adrenals are hurting - At the beginning I was drinking two glasses a day -

I do it now and then at the moment.

[laura1967]

bret- make sure you have a high dosage of B complex...not just what is in your vitamin....not enough for the adrenals. :)   If you want to get a true idea of the shape of your adrenals, I would suggest doing a saliva hormone panel on your own. I did one for the adrenals, progesterone, estrogen and testosterone. I will look up the lab I used if you want. Let me know. Can't wait to see how your bloodwork comes out. :)
Peggy- yes i have seen the isocort on line....seems good....dr helen pensanti uses it on her website....she is a great advocate for women's issues.
Maybe you can get your doctor to do a trial of cortef if your levels showed need. If not I would try the isocort. The enzymatic products are great...but may not be strong enough for you. Unfortunately most dr's don't acknowledge adrenal fatigue....big dummies!  

[bretbunch]

Thanks to everyone for responding.  Stella, I will check into upping the supplement dosages.  My system tends to be sensitive with vitamins, so I think I'll have to go slow.  

Laura, if you could, I would appreciate the info for the lab you used for the saliva test.  How much did it cost?  I am on limited funds right now due to being laid off from the mortgage business last November, but am starting a job search.  But, I think it will be important to check my adrenals.

I was diagnosed with Graves 2 1/2 yrs ago, and was on Synthroid all that time, until my change to Armour.  But, I was also stable except for the past 4 months.  Went hyper due to overdose of Levoxyl the middle of May, then went down to hypo, TSH 28-- 5 weeks later, and trying to build back up to euthyroid again.  

I have to say that this time is rougher than after the RAI treatment 2 1/2 yrs ago.  I am really struggling with the neck and back pain, including muscle pain (surface pain) in my chest area and emotional ups and downs.  I cry too easily right now--my poor family has to put up with me.  Ugh!!.  Anxious to see what the bloodowork shows.  

[stella5349]

The ZRT lab is the source for the saliva testing kits.

My doctor has given me the kit to send in - but it runs $240 to do the total test and insurance will not pay in my situation.

[peggy64]

well, Now I am reminded of why I left armour in the first place. That awful anxiety! It is hit me around 4 this AM.

Does anyone else have anxiety with their armour, and if so, how have you dealt with it?
No one else here has mentioned is, so I am thinking maybe I am the only one.

I need to be able to work through this and would be grateful to hear of any of your experiences with this.

[laura1967]

bret- yes i used ZRT labs you can google it and look for the best deals....I also used another company too....I have done it twice to see where I stand. Yes I understand the finance thing too....same situation. It is a catch 22....if you don't get well you cannot work.
peggy- have you tracked your anxiety on a calendar to see if possibly it could be due to your menstrual cycle? I get anxiety bad only on certain days of my cycle....it only started when i entered into perimenopause. Oh yeah and anxiety is also caused by low adrenals big time. I had my appt with my naturopath this morning. Time to increase my adrenal supports.....remember the adrenals control the fight or flight hormones....will cause major anxiety. I think it may be what is causing this for you....weak adrenals, thus hard to take thyroid meds, induced anxiety from adrenals, worsened symptoms between the thyroid - adrenal axis. If you were here with me I would doctor you up with my good stuff! :)  My naturopath dr researched and researched until he found this liquid B complex combination. It can only be purchased through dr unfortunately....it is the best. It is the main thing he puts adrenal patients on.
You can do this Peggy.......I speak over you that your body will come into alignment as the word of God says!!

[MKlacza]

Hi All! Havent been around lately! I think I found my dose!! 120! Doing well on it so far. Cross the fingers. I"ve missed you all! Just moving and busy with these kids of mine!!

MK

[peggy64]

Laura, I receive it, and thank you.

I take b vitamins, quite a bit actually. I am thinking of increasing the magnesium to see if that will help.
I also try to eat healthy, don't smoke or drink alcohol. I will check on the cycle thing for sure.

I also take a gaba and l theanine support. supposed to help with calmness.

i sure wish I could go to a naturopath.

MK, good to hear from you.

okay, we are hanging in there.

[laura1967]

Well naturopath said I need to increase B's again for adrenals...lol  Figures!  I actually had a productive day today! I stayed busy all day! Maybe the armour increase 1 1/2 weeks ago is kicking in?  I hope so!!!!

MK- so nice to see you! Dont work too hard. Glad to hear you are doing well on armour! Are your symptoms gone?

[bretbunch]

Hello there!  Nice to see you back on-line.  I think its great that you may have found y our optimum dose.  We started out on Armour at a similar time.  I am holding at 105mg right now, until I go and see my new endo doc tomorrow.  I tried to go up to 120mg, but got heart palps one night, so went back down to 105mg.  I think I probably tried to go to 120mg too soon.  I will have to try again after awhile.  Did you get any palps when you went to 120mg and how long were you on the 105mg before you tried 120mg?  How long have you been on the 120mg dose??

I'll let you all know how my new dr appt goes tomorrow morning and I will report my labs once I get the results back.  I'm curious to find out how my labs are coming.

Take care everyone!

Peggy--You can get through this change back to Armour, one day at a time.  We are all here to support you and I can tell you that I couldn't have gotten this far without everyone that is on this thread!  

[peggy64]

Thanks Bret, You are so right. I have received more support here, than from my own family.

Feeling pretty rough today.... Just keep me in your prayers because I need them to get through this. I am only hoping it is because my system needs to adjust to the T3.

[laura1967]

Peggy- hope you are feeling a little better......try getting into a bath tonight with epsom salts, it will at least force your body to relax a little. :(
Did you find the isocort?
I actually had another productive day at being able to stay busy all day....2nd day now of energy....please God let this be it !

[peggy64]

A bath sounds lovely. I found the isocort. Does it come with directions?

[peggy64]

Also, since it is hydrocortisone, did it make you gain weight?

[laura1967]

No it won''t make you gain weight....you should be fine. Dr Helen will send instructions with it. If not call when you get it and they will then instruct you. They are very nice there.
Hope you are relaxing as I write this....  :)

[anca77]

Hi everybody,

Thank you for all the information you are putting there.  I got my diagnostic 8 months ago but now, reading all your e-mails, realized I had the symptoms for a long time.  I am on Levo 0.75.  I got the hart burns; I was on Nexium for 2 mo.  The doctor did not make the connection with my thyroid problem.  I constantly have pain in the back of my head that I was blaming the blood pressure.  I had back problems that I was blaming on sleeping in a wrong position.  Always trying to find an explanation and looks like the answer is the thyroid.

Anybody can tell me a good Endo in northern New Jersey?

I tried a few but no good.  In fact I got my diagnostic from my GYB, during a routine yearly exam.  I was complaining for a long time of weight gain, fuzzy thinking, tired but nothing.
I got a lot of info on thyroid now I have to study the symptoms of adrenal fatigue and see if I have any.
Anyway, thanks again for all your advice and support.

[laura1967]

Had some breathing issues last night....seemed very short of breath and labored. I usually only get this when I am hypo....hmmmm....anyone else have this? It has been very hot here too, maybe that is adding to it. :)

[stella5349]

I don't remember - but do you have confirmation of a true adrenal problem yet.

Isocort is an HC and it is very hard to get off IF you do not really need to use it.

Just making sure you are aware.

[stella5349]

also - Isocort is a "duller" form of Cortef - I would definately check with your doctor before using to see if adrenal support - RX would be better.

[bretbunch]

Hi Laura and everyone on this thread!!

I have also had breathing problems during my bouts with thyroid.  I went to my new endo doc today and was pretty impressed.  My breathing/chest heaviness problems started during the first two weeks after I had RAI.  I was thrilled to hear my new doc say that it was a "classic" case of thyroiditis that some people get after having RAI.  My former doc didn't know anything about it--scary.  They went away when I was stablized on Synthroid for 2 years and then came back when I got over-medicated.  

I tend to have breathing problems when I am either on the high side, with too much meds, or too hypo.  I have been trying to get rid of any breathing problems/shortness of breath, that I have been experiencing since mid April.  They have diminished significantly and I think it will go away with proper dosages, but I think you should call your endo if you have breathing problems again today because it sounds like a dose adjustment may be warranted.  Thyroid does affect they diaphragm, which affects the breathing.

My new doc wants me to stay on the 105mg of Armour for another 4 weeks prior to blood tests to give my body some time to adjust to the dosage.  It was really refreshing to hear her say that Armour is a "wonderful medication" and she doesn't understand why most docs refuse to prescribe it.  She also said that with any thyroid meds, you have to go slow--which I was also glad to hear.  I felt like my former doc just increased doses not even considering what it could do to someone's body/symptoms.  She also said that not only do they treat using blood tests, but also by symptoms.  I felt very good that I can have confidence in a doctor again.  She said I will be monitored at least every 6 weeks until we get me stable again.  So, needless to say....I am very pleased.  She also told me that they seem to get a few patients transferring to their practice from my previous docs practice.  

FYI--my mother is starting down this thyroid path.  She has a suspicious nodule on the left that has the possiblity of being cancerous and a larger one on the right that is fluid filled.  She is scheduled for a FNA biopsy on August 12 and pretty scared about it.  She may be headed for surgery.  Please just keep her in your prayers as she embarks on this thyroid journey.  She's 71 yrs old this year and the thyroid problems in the family seem to be from her side.  I'll let you know how it goes for her.  

Take care everyone and I'll talk to you soon!!

[laura1967]

So glad to hear you have an awesome endo! Yeah!!!  She seems very educated on armour and thyroid.
I will keep your mom in prayer. Hopefully her thyroid journey will be an easy one and not a difficult one.
Also, i just had my increase 1 1/2 weeks ago...so....I will have to wait a little bit before I test. I usually only have breathing issues when I am hypo. I do feel better again today though! Yeah!!!!
Take care and talk to you soon!  :)

[peggy64]

Hi everyone, I posted on my journal about what is going on with the armour.

Stella, did not get tested, but  I took an online test and ranked severe. I am going by my symptoms as well.

Also, wanted to add, I have breathing issues, when my magnesium level gets low. That is another problem with hypothyroidism.....So you might want to add a mag supp and see if that helps. I like plain ole epsom salt. 1 tsp doesn't cause the stomach issue either.

Peggy

[peggy64]

have any of you armour guys had any adverse reaction? I had suspected  I had adrenal issues, and then read somewhere that it will cause problems if there is an adrenal  problem.


I am thinking mine is due to the adrenal issue, and whether to stop thyroid meds and treat adrenals first.  

I don't think we would be allergic to this product if we can tolerate pork.

[nellster]

Hi.  All of your posts are very helpful and informative.  I am currently on 90 gr and think I am doing ok!  I still get very tired early afternoon though but there has been a dramatic decrease in my hair loss since my Armour journey began on 6/28/08.  

Anca, I just went to one of the top rated endo's in the state(Cherry Hill) i found him on the About Thyroid site

Best to all

[satenig2]

omg!!! i found this site. thank you thank you...i'm currently on armour 60mg.  and i feel sooo sluggy! but my adrenals are way low, as is my iron and dhea. my tsh is 2.50, ferritin 195, t3 free 219(230-420) iron 34 and dhea 73(143-1277).and throxine,free 1.05. i have a holistic doc, but she hasn't really been explaining things  to me in depth. but jeez laura and stella you have been a ton of info. all the vitamins i need to buy. i'm guessing once i get my adrenals going i won't be feeling so sluggish on the armour. i love the idea of the liqiud vit b.. is there a particular vit store where you say you buy the best brands. altho my doc has her own website w/pricey vitamins!!  well it's been 30min since my dose, now it's time for breakfast!!  i will definately try the meds under the tongue, if i can wait that long!!  thanks a bunch to all!! satenig2

[laura1967]

I take a liquid B mixture called Max Stress B Nano Plex by Premier Research Labs....I get it from my holistic doctor. I don't think you can get it unless through a dr...not sure. It is very good stuff and you pay the price, BUT, glandulars don't work for my adrenals and this is the only stuff I have found to truly build them up properly other than taking bioidentical hormones.  I will google the max stress and see if anyone sells it on the internet.  
You definately look like you need an increase in your armour....how long have you been on this dosage?
Also DHEA is also a hormone made by the adrenals. which could be adding to adrenal problems. Are you taking dhea?
When it comes to the adrenals sometimes we have to pay the price for good quality to fix the problem....don't waste your money on cheap junk that doesnt work. Your whole body relies on your adrenals working properly.
Glad to meet you!! :)

[satenig2]

thanks for your reply.  really an increase in armour?.  this morn i did take the 45mg. waited the 1/2, then ate and what a world of difference!  much  more energy. in fact i felt alittle wired, till i realized it was 1pm and probably should eat. but i sure don't have that bloated feeling like i  normally do after i eat.  i think i've been on the armour for at least 5 or 6 wks, cuz i just went and took my follow-up labs.  waiting to hear back on wed.  and yes i am taking dhea-it was 73(143-1277).very low,huh?  she's got me taking 25mgx2 in the morn for 2 wks, then just 1 in the a.m.  yes i am really working on getting those adrenals up to full speed!!  also i will take your advice on only taking prmium quality vitamins..thanks so much..this is really an issue i know nothing about .  i'll keep you posted...peace

[satenig2]

thanks for your reply.  really an increase in armour?.  this morn i did take the 45mg. waited the 1/2, then ate and what a world of difference!  much  more energy. in fact i felt alittle wired, till i realized it was 1pm and probably should eat. but i sure don't have that bloated feeling like i  normally do after i eat.  i think i've been on the armour for at least 5 or 6 wks, cuz i just went and took my follow-up labs.  waiting to hear back on wed.  and yes i am taking dhea-it was 73(143-1277).very low,huh?  she's got me taking 25mgx2 in the morn for 2 wks, then just 1 in the a.m.  yes i am really working on getting those adrenals up to full speed!!  also i will take your advice on only taking prmium quality vitamins..thanks so much..this is really an issue i know nothing about .  i'll keep you posted...peace

[anca77]

Thank you for the information. Are you happy with the doctor? For how long you waited for him to see you? I am scheduled to see my doctor in November and I got the name from the same site but I was hopping to find another option as I am tired of waiting (I scheduled my appointment 7 months in advance).

[peggy64]

feeling  on the hyper side. Have dropped the armour down to 7.5 to try and titrate up. This med really affects my adrenals, as well, so I am going to have to go slow.

I do not want to go back to synthetic, so this is the only way I know to go. Seeing an endo the 19th.  

[bretbunch]

Hi Peggy!

I'm thinking of you today and hope that you start feeling better and your body gets adjusted to the meds.  Each time I have upped or changed a dose, I felt like I had to be a bit careful for the first 5 days or so and then after that, my body seemed to adjust.  I tried to go up to 120mg a little over a week ago and my body couldn't handle it.  I felt some hyper symptoms coming back on after 2 days.  After I lowered it back down by 15mg, it took my body about 5 days to calm back down.  

I know how hard this is--thats for sure.  I'm not a very patient person but if you just go slow, rest and maybe take some relaxing baths you can get through this!!!  Take Care!!

Lori  (bretbunch)

[peggy64]

Thank you Lori, thank you everyone for your support and encouragement.

well, I bit the bullet and ordered some Isocort. Ordered it from dr helen pensanti.  They will work with me on dosaging and then on weaning.  Hopefully, that will help get this ball rolling. I also ordered some progesterone creme. She said that should help with the sleep issues. RIGHT!!! I am thinking. It is going to have to prove it first.

Got to do something...

[nellster]

Anca:  I had to wait about 4 weeks.  I met him on 7/14 and will see him again on 8/29.  As far as first impressions go...fantastic and listens too!   We'll see if that remains true after my next few visits.  I for one have no problem leaving a Dr if I do not get results.  

I can say this, he is fine with Armour and synthetic both, draws blood on the spot and calls you late at night at home within a day or two with the results!  

good luck!   I believe there is also a group of endo's recomended on a site (that also lists Dr Lupo) near Trenton.  I'll see if I can find it and I'll let you know.

[WhatIsNormal]

Hello, I have recently switched to Armour from Levothyroxine. I was on 75 mcg,  and my DR. put me on 45mg of Armour. Is that a normal dose switch? My doctor told me he has never prescribed Armour before. But I believe that I am still low because of the symptoms I am having, especially heart palps. I know they are related to anxiety, but they seem much worse when my thyroid is off. Get blood work results on 11th. If you are on 200 mg of Armour what was your dose on Synthroid? Well this is a very interesting thread, I'm in.

[laura1967]

I was on 75mcg synthroid when i was switched to 60mgs armour. I had gone a little hypo on the synthroid. I am now up to 75mgs of armour. More than likely you will probably need an increase. Make sure your free t3 and free t4 levels are checked with the tsh. You really cannot dose armour according to the tsh levels....they will look hyper when you are optimally dosed. Your doc needs to dosage you to your symptoms and free results. Welcome to the world of armour!!  :)  :)

[peggy64]

What, If you start to get hyper, just do like I am having to do. Back down the dosage. Just wanted to tell you in case it did happen so you would not panic and be unprepared.

I know I am at 7.5 and going to start Isocort for my adrenal glands. Then that should help my adrenals to be able tolerate more Armour.

What a  peculiar disease this is.

Take care everyone.........

[peggy64]

There is another post on here about the ratio of T3 to T4, which I had read, but forgotten. IMAGINE THAT!!

So that might be why those of us with adrenal issues have to start low.

[stella5349]

I think the dosage is pretty close to what you should start with. At first I felt the increase should have been 60mg - but the more I thought about it the more I agree with your doctors dosage for Armour after 75mcg of Levo

I really think going a bit slower is right and after two weeks you should need an increase - that is where I feel the extra 15mg or (now up to 60mg total) will be needed.

Great move on the docs part - why put your body on a jittery mode if all can be avoided.

Peggy I am so worried about the Isocort - did you increase your B's and C's first?

Go online to Dr James Wilson's adrenal fatigue. I am more than 1/2 way through the book and he has soooo many self ways to get past adrenal fatigue without HC

[peggy64]

Stella, I am going to go check out that website when I send this off. and thanks so much.

now that I have ordered it, I am having second thoughts about it. I am already in such bad shape, I don't need anything else to go wrong. I am thinking about coming off of my adrenal supports....Dr teitlebaum, adrenal stress end and his Sleep tonight formula. have been on B's and C's for quite some time, And doing a saliva test before beginning.

It seems as if I have symptoms of high cortisol and low cortisol, so I don't want to do anything ELSE stupid.


Laura1967, did you test your cortisol levels before beginning?

[peggy64]

Forgot to add, the armour thyroid just makes me feel really fatigued, and right now, I can't go higher than 7.5 as it sends me in a tailspin. I am in a mess! That is why I thought the Isocort might be a good idea, because the others haven't really helped.  

[js1957]

I have enjoyed reading all of your comments....I have Hashimoto's and for 4 yrs. not felt good.  I  am on Snthyroid 75 mg and I try so many different supplements too!  They tell my my T4 & T3 are fine my TSH is .01 this last time but I continue with major sleep problems, aches and pain in neck and shoulders, some anxiety and of course the cold intolerence is always there.  I really have trouble with the muscle aches.  It's hard to find a good Endo/Doc.  I just continue to research myself and I'm thinking of switching to Armour but some of you seem not so sure?  I also need input with the Hash's for vitamins due to the fact that soy and iodine are an issue with Hashimoto's.   Thank you all for posting and I  look forward to your comments.  JS

[peggy64]

Hi, JS.

Speaking for my own issues with armour, I think the problem is in me. It is reported that if you have adrenal fatigue, it will be hard to tolerate, and that is exactly what I have going on.

I am trying to deal with adrenal problems as well as thyroid.  I think as soon as I get some healing to the adrenals, I will be better able to tolerate the armour. It is a slow go, that is for sure.............

I tried synthroid and my stomach couldn't deal with that.

[anca77]

To: All,

Can anybody please tell me what THYROID PEROXIDASE AB stands for? I finally got a copy of my latest blood test and this one had a value of 95.5. The max normal value is 35 and the doctor did not look too concern. My TSH is 1.49, Free T4 is 1.2 and Total T3 is 110.

[stella5349]

That is a TPO ab test for Hashimoto autoimmune antibody.

Your's is slightly out of range

[peggy64]

Hi gang,

I have been taking some adrenal support supplements for about 2 months. The other day, the GP recommended I come off of these, in case the dr wants to run some tests. I know most endos do not run saliva cortisol tests, and those are the most accurate.

I am thinking why get off if the healing has already begun. Does anybody else have any thoughts about this?

[laura1967]

you can;t afford to allow your adrenals to get any weaker....if it were me i wouldn't do it. I would do a complete saliva workup on cortisol throughout day and your other hormones too. Even the dhea levels are important as your adrenals make that too. I found out through the saliva testing that my estrogen adn progesterone levels were extremely low.
Well worth the money.
By the way....the isocort is derived of gladulars and plant extracts...no hydrocortisone in there....so I wouldn't be concerned with thinking it is a synthetic type of med. It may be considered a bio-identical....Dr Helen is the expert in womens health so I would ask them.
The blood tests they run for cortisol aren;t sensitive enough to find insufficiency...plus most dr's don't recognize it. You are better off with saliva.

I had a yucky day today....have my period though....my body is feeling trembly and my eyeballs feel like they are shaking....weird. Hope you have a good night! :)

[peggy64]

that is what I was thinking and after 2 days I felt so bad, I just restarted them.  The literature says you need to be off of them for 2 weeks before testing.
Oh well,....


oh if I could just get a good nights sleep !

[peggy64]

Is anyone on armour using Isocort or other adrenal supplements?

[peggy64]

I am using adrenal supplements.

I also changed the time of my armour to late this afternoon. I hope that will help. I thought since I crash in the late afternoons, and the t3 has some energy properties to it, give it a whirl.

We shall see.

[peggy64]

Right now I am taking 7.5 mg of armour. I can feel the t3 when it is released. When I was taking more than that, the T3 sensation was horrible....causing agitation and a buzz.

I am wondering if this will not be so severe, as my body gets used to it. Also, if this does, in fact happen to anyone else on armour?

I will need to raise it again in about a week, if I can tolerate it.

Thanks........Peggy

[laura1967]

Have you thought about combining both armour and synthroid? I have read of doctors doing that. It may be an easier way to build up thyroid while not taxing your adrenals. I never had severe adrenal issues when i was on synthroid. Just a thought until you get your adrenals healthier....Let me know if you want the name of the book that the endo wrote about using armour and synthroid. Hope you are having a good day!!

[peggy64]

hi Laura, Is there a book? I would love to know about it so I can discuss it with the endo when I go in 2 weeks. I am going to be researching all I can. I think this slow ramping is going to really help the adrenals as well. So that the armour(T3) won't be such a shock to them.

It really does give you a jolt.....at large doses....at least me anyways.

Take care and thanks for the info.

[peggy64]

bump for cynnie

[laura1967]

So as Stella thinks I agree that I may need another increase. I am feeling like **** with no energy at all. Joint pain back with a vengeance and dizzy. Thyroid began burning 4 days ago. Last week during my cycle though I felt a little hyper...anyone else get this during their period? This week though I am definately feeling hypo. Not due for bloodword until end of month though.
Confusing thing is to why I would need so much Armour when I was on 75mcg synthroid and had only gone a little hypo. I am now on 75mgs Armour. Anyone got any thoughts?

[Cynnieb4]

yeah i need a bump kick in my ***, or something. This water fluid not going anywhere until they do!  

[peggy64]

Laura,

maybe your adrenals are responding better now, and thus will tolerate an increase in the armour.

It might just be a good sign as far as those buggars go. Hope so anyway.

[stella5349]

T4 Synthroid is a time release conversion from T4 into T3

Armour as you know has built in T3 - short lived.

That is why increases are more often our bodies gets used to the T3 and wants a bump.

eventually all calms down and you become optimal.

I still am on 2 grains and maybe .... jsut maybe as of today I think I too need a bump

When we have our cycle all our homones are in top speed - (hyper) so T3 moves quicker

- hyper-

Things calm down for you have the second day of getting your period right?

Do you "crash" right before you get it?

I do

[laura1967]

Yes I do crash right before and during. I get jitters and my eyes feel bouncy for a couple of days like I was hyper....weird. But it does only a couple of days.
How do you make it through the fatigue???? I am sooooo tired physically and mentally that I could cry. I know my dr is going to make me wait till end of month for bloodwork.
If I do another increase it will take me to 90mgs......do you think my thyroid could have taken another dump from the hashi's? The only way to explain as the poor thyroid gets wacked by the antibodies....lol
I think the worst is the breathing gets labored and my poor wrists hurt soooo bad. Sorry I am whining...I could use a good whine and cry I think. Maybe I need a good rant!
You are lucky you found a Dr that is knowledgeable of armour or lets you make the decisions on increasing.

[peggy64]

Laura, cry all you want...whine all you want. We know exactly how you feel.

Can you maybe back up on the armour, and increase the isocort during that time of the month to see if that would help? Just a thought.

Have you ever tried Borage oil> It is supposed to help with the anxiety and agitation.

[tracim]

I have been on 0.175 Synthroid for 13 years with no dose change. My TSH is only about 0.07 so my doctors tried throwing me back in normal range. Everytime they dropped doseage, I started having brain fog and really severe headaches with dizziness. Now, I am on Armour 2 grains for about two weeks and am still noticing the severe headaches. Not sure if I have too much or too little. Doctor says that 0.175 is equivalent to 2 grains a day. I do not think I can get him to up it anymore than this since he is panicked about my TSH. Does anyone have any thoughts?

[stella5349]

If your doctor just increase the Armour to the 2 grain - it is very common you will have the headache - most do get them until the body adjusts.

TSh is not the only reading you read to know if you are on the right dose. You need a Free T3 which I assume will be high - but how much? Last I tested I was way above the range and at that time I felt great.

and my TSH was 0.04

Laura - I found a little exercise (release endorphines) and rest along with an upped of magnesium helps me through the hyper times.

I don't know anything about Borage oil. Supporting the adrenals at that time really helps. and to tell you the truth acupuncture did too.

A once a month tune up!

[laura1967]

Stella- How do you get up enough energy to exercise....ugh! I definately need an increase. I had that dull thud palps last night. Today I am still in a thick fog and lethargic. The joint pain has set itself in my rt shoulder...ouch! I found a prescribing sheet on armour which explains the frequent increases and testing every 4 weeks. I am going to print it and take to my dr. I am also going to call and ask if I can get in sooner and have bloodwork done sooner. I can't wait another 3 weeks!  Yikes! lol  
Acupuncture is awesome....i have had it done. Just too expensive here...my chinese doc gets $100.00 per session.  I will try extra magnesium next cycle and see if that calms me. I also have an all natural anti-anxiety formula that rocks! I just forget to take it or tell myself i will tough it out. Silly me.
How are you feeling today? Did you increase again? What made you go hyper?

Peggy- How are you feeling today????

[peggy64]

HI Laura,

Like a dead woman walking. No interest, to exhausted. I have upped mine to 15, probably need to increase it more, but due to adrenal issues, I am taking it very slowly, this time.

I am thinking about taking 3 dalmane 15 mg for some looooonnnngg overdue sleep. That just might work!!  I am just drooling thinking about it!

Thanks for asking....

[stella5349]

No increase yet but getting there for me.

Laura did your Chinese doc use the magnetic chrystals on you?  There is a cheap method for at home to do the same therapy they do.

Go buy Neodynomium magnets and tape thosr babies on your area of pain. It opens the flow of blood and releases O2 to the body to reduce the swelling - it will improve in 15minutes. I do it all the time. and it works!

[laura1967]

Stella- where do you buy those type of magnets?  No he never used magnetic crystals...hmmmm  I have to get some of those!!
Peggy....I completely understand and am walking the zombie walk with you...lol
UUUUUhhhhhhhhUUUUUUUhhhhhh look at us! LOL

[stella5349]

After I wrote this to you I have a swelling thing going on lately too - it is the Hashi and stress lately - effects my neck

I oput the magnet on and it is almost gone - been about 30minutes.

it works - I'd lay my life down on this.

I brought them at a dime store but read online about them.

[laura1967]

I just read on the joint effects of hashi's and the tendency on the shoulders and hips.
I have a magnetic necklace that I bought a while back and stopped using because I always felt like i was detoxing from it....hmmmm...I know that the necklace was made with the strong magnets. I even have a bracelet come to think of....lol  

[mommy2two2008]

I was prescribed armour yesterday.  Script was for 1 grain (60mg) but I am following Stella's advice on only doing 1/2 grain (30mg) for 2 two weeks since I have the med in 1/4 grain dosages.  I guess the problem in getting armour has worked to my advantage.  I only took 1/4 grain today since I did not really know anything (like I said - script problem and I am new to it).  Was previously on Levo .25.  Am feeling hopeful, which I have not felt in a while so that is a nice change.  I guess we will all see how it goes for me together! Hug and BTW ---- STELLA ROCKS!

[peggy64]

Mommy, welcome to armour world. It takes some getting used to thats for sure.

Hope you do well on it, and feel great.

Laura, hope you feel better.

I am still debating 3 of the dalmane for tonight. I hate pills, so knowing me, .....

[mommy2two2008]

Thanks Peggy!  I glad the Armour thread is here b/c I was worried about dosage at first, but I feel like easing my way into it may be my thing.  BTW - any one get evening jitters?  Could it be the coke I drank at dinner?  I always drink coke, well really Diet Dr. Pepper, is this something I should avoid while adjusting to the armour?  Getting some swelling tonight that was not really there all day, but hey, used to that!  That is what the Muscle Relaxer is for I guess. My evening was harder with the kids, than my day at work, both the kids seem to be getting a summer cold and one has a temp - anyway, maybe stress works it way in to my swelling riddle.  Hmmmmmm....

BTW - This community rocks!!!  I have gotten so many answers lately to my puzzling swelling.  Thanks all.

[laura1967]

Try to keep your caffeine intake to a minimum if it causes jitters....until your body gets use to the meds. Heh, don't be afraid to lay down with an ice pack over your thyroid when you feel swollen, it always helps me.
I agree that this community rocks!!  
The best way to take armour is easing slowly into it so you don't experience hyper symptoms. It is easier to build up than to go hyper and cut back. It seems to take quite a long time for the body to settle down from what I have seen peggy and stella go through.
Welcome to our thread of armour users!!! Yeah!! Go mommy.....Go mommy! lol  lol

Peggy- thank you for the well wish! Back at ya!!

[laura1967]

Update on me and I saw a few new people asking about armour so I am bumping us up....hehe
Well the hypo saga continues for me until I can get back to dr. I am going to call this coming week and ask for bloodwork early and be seen earlier. My tonsils feel swollen adn I have some white spots going on. Uhoh!
How is everyone else feeling????? Stella.....Peggy.....Mommy......anyone else?  :)

[mommy2two2008]

I feel great today!  THE SWELLING IS SUBSIDING!!!!  

[stella5349]

I am sucking a glass of sea salt water tonight

Bad acid. :(

But it is my fault - loads of stress until this wedding is in place next Saturday.

I am going to try the ice pack thing. Sounds logical :)

[satenig2]

i am feeling better kinda w/my armour 45mg.  have been taking the appropiate vitamins, and can definately feel a change.  my t3 is up to mormal but now my tsh has dropped out of range ... is this normal??  i still feel achy too.  i also feel as tho i am losing the bloated feeling, which is a great feeling!  just don't have all my umph back!  i guess that we'll come back eventually???  thanks for listening,satenig2.

[satenig2]

sorry for all the typo errors---geez....s2

[laura1967]

Yes it is normal for your tsh level to look like you are slightly hyper. Why don't you give us your exact levels with ranges from your lab and lets take a look where you are at.
With armour your t3 level will be in high normal to high range. You should be going mostly by symptoms more than levels.
How long have you been at the 45mg level? Is it time for an increase?

[satenig2]

hi, now i'm really confused!  just came back from an appt w/an old school endo.  he says my tsh levels were normal. and that the tsh works to fill the t3s & t4s if they're low.  told me i shouldn't be taking any thyroid meds!  but i feel better!
here's my #s these are after about 6wks. of being on armour...t3 reverse 31,ferritin 162, t3 free 397, tsh 0.23,thyroxinre free 0.86.  and now that my tsh is low my hair is falling out...i've probably been taking 45mg. for at least 4-5 wks.  i just bumped it up to 60mg this morn.  i'm still kinda of blah feeling.  i have lost about 4lbs tho.  and i'm starting to eat again the things i used to. weird, i notice that stuff.  am waiting for my holistic doc to respond to my e-mail..thanks, s2

[laura1967]

can you repost your test results with the lab ranges next to them? please :)
Old school endo? Uh oh....he doesn't seem to really understand the tsh..
what were your starting #'s before meds?

[peggy64]

satenig2.

did he stop your armour, or just tell you you shouldn't be taking it. it is because of the med that  your labs are where they are now, and that you are feeling better. These drs!!

Hope you get some help with the holistic dr.

[stella5349]

Did you take your meds prior to your test?

ACL is the Lab that runs my labs for my thyroid but they go by a decimal system not ratio as you have posted.  Who runs your labs - you can easily get the ranges online with the lab company.

Truly looking at your TSH of .23 that is "just" below the .3 of the AACE which doesn't really mean anything.

I am at a TSH of 0.03 but I am not being treated by TSH I am treated on FREE T3 w/ symptoms. Looking at your Free T3 yes it is just above the "normal levels - but again I range over the top on FREE T3 with my labs and I have no symptoms - and my hair used to fall out in clumps prior to being optimal.

Your "old school" endo is labeling you as a number (TSH) not a symptomatic thyroid patient.

set him straight or you will be in misery for some time.

[helen1207]

Friends here, i have a question, you might think it's stupid... i am considering switching to Armour from Synthroid.....as i am battling hair loss. also it seems like every so often, maybe every 3 month, i have to increase the dose by 25mcg to get myself feel better. though, the blood work shows i am just fine.
okay, my questions is, for those of you that are on Armour, i believe you are increasing dose as well,,,,but didn't you have to increase, because you felt awfully? or just because your doctor told you to, based on the blood work? or? and if you were on Synthroid before, did you have hair issue? did that ease after switching to Armour?

I know i will have to try myself, but still would like to know more before making that decision. thanks!

[satenig2]

ok i will post #s..  old ones: ferritin 195(10-232), t3free 219(230-420),tsh 2.50(0.40-4.50),   thyroxine free 1.05(0.8-1.8)

new #s-ferritin 162(10-232)t3 free 397(230-420) t3reverse 31(11-32)?, tsh 0.23(0.40-4.50),  thyroxine free 0.86 (0.8-1.8). if you have a fax machine i'll fax them to you.

o man he was so adamant about how bad the armour is. questioning what kind of training my holistic dr. has.  he said if your're taking thyroid meds when you don't need to it will cause you to have osteoparosis...please explain your findings. s2

[satenig2]

no the endo didn't tell me to stop stop. just advised it.  but i came home and took the 60mg anyway!!  but i still prefer the 45mg. yea i'm still waiting for hol dr to get back to me.
i don't like seeing more hair on my comb!!  he also said the low adrenals have nothing to do w/it???!! more later.  i'm in california and it's almost time for lunch. it's 12:50

[satenig2]

yes i had taken my meds prior to the 2nd tests...some of the tests are done by decimal, but i hear what your're saying. it would be easier.   quest does my labs. go online? is there a fee? do i just go to the quest site?  
the holistic dr. did imply that she was treating me for my t3 also, iirc. cuz she said my t4 does not convert to t3 in my body.  is that similar to what you are saying for you?

as for the endo, i'm never gonna see him again!!  he's old.( nothing against old!)

[stella5349]

Kitty 9309 has extensive knowledge about Quest. and as far as I know - no fee.

Exactly - if you have a conversion issue T4 only meds will not work.

Helen - there is alot of info out there on Armour. I saw you read the post done a while back today form February.

Clearly I am not impressed with a a few posters thought about Armour and they have no fact on anything.

Re read that post - I finally responded in hopes that one goes away entirely now.

It's a good medicine to think about trying if you are suffeing on Synthroid.

[peggy64]

satenig,
are you splitting your pills and multi dosing them? That is the only way I can take them as the T3 dumps immediately.  

Helen,

due to the t3 being added to your system, when changing over to armour, it is in the patients best interest to ramp up the dose. It allows your body an opportunity to get used to the T3, which is like a stimulent.

I am having adrenal problems and that is why my armour dose is so low. It really does affect the adrenals.

[satenig2]

peggy, no i'm not multi dosing.  i am cutting up the 60mg into the 45mg tho.  i don't know if it comes in 45mg??  

so are you saying that the armour is only helping boost the t3?  but it seems then that too much of it robs away fron the t4 or tsh? im confused.

ok stella i'll chk out the quest site.  see what i can find.. thanks girls  p.s. will i feel more energetic once my adrenals catch up?

[stella5349]

I have not really seen any research that Armour itself is a problem for the adrenals. Respectfully - how I understand it is that when a thyroid patient is left under treated and hypothyroid for so long the adrenals will  have to use up more energy needed to attempt to balance the system. They can not keep up with their function and supporting the thyroid so they start to fail.

Depending on how far they are fatigued when you finally begin a proper dosage of Armour the thyroid is now trying to work the system back into a balance - but the adrenals are now too weak to respond and will not produce cortisol correctly.

That is why the hyper symptoms then appear in most cases when someone is on this med. It has nothing to do with Armour  it is the cortisol values now in the adrenals that are off.

Many  - after a repair of the adrenals can take double or triple the dosage of Armour and not suffer at all. This is because everything is back in value and the thyroid meds are enhancing optimal preformance.

The lower dosage can and maybe are keeping you at a baseline of hypothyroid - so your adrenals are going to be tough to repair.

Until you get those adrenals - as you know - working correctly - any med Synthroid or Armour will not make you feel better.

[stella5349]

How are you cutting a tablet into 45mg? are you 1/4 dosing x's 3?

What does your actual Rx say you are to take in mg's?

T3 is a short lived hormone so splitting the dosage thoughout the day is exactly how the thyroid does it -

We do not produce all our T3 for the day only in the AM  with a normal thyroid function. It is an all day process.

That is why Armour works. Dosing every 4 hrs up to 2pm in the afternoon is beneficial in keeping the energy value up all day long.

This way IF your adrenals are weak - assisting them with supplements and in some cases HC while the Armour T3 is assiting the thyroid - your body begins the healing process and starts to function better.

Hense then increases of Armour to reach optimal values. It is a process.

[peggy64]

stella,

All the research I have done, shows that armour does cause a problem with the adrenals.  And that if people are having adrenal problems, sometimes they have to back off of the armour completely until the adrenals are improved.  This is when they should be using hydrocortisone or isocort.

I know when I took the synthroid, I started feeling better, not sleeping better. When I went back to armour, I started feeling bad again.  The T3 is what causes the problem. It overstimulates the fatigued adrenals.

(I went back to armour because of the horrible reflux from the synthroid)

When I took the armour prescription, a regular, normal dose, in about a month it made my adrenals crash. I mean crash. I was in the bed for about 2 months.

After I started having problems I found the  yahoo. adrenal support group and those on there have experienced the same thing and have had to back off of the armour.

Then as the adrenals recover, the armour can be raised.  

[stella5349]

In the case of patients with no thyroid function whether RAI or TT ( as me)

and there is no way of not taking your meds or even backing off. What is a patient to do when that is their situation and their adrenals are shot?

[peggy64]

IF you believe it is causing problems for you, you can still back off on the meds, decrease the dose, just like anyone else that is hypo.

Also, the greater the stage of adrenal fatigue, the harder it is for armour to be tolerated.  So, for those that are not having difficulties with armour, more than likely either do not have adrenal problems yet, or they are not that severe.

[laura1967]

Hi Stella and Peggy! Just thought i would check in and take a break from waiting for this stupid storm to hit. Now they are saying it can reach us between 2am and morning. I think I am going to try to take a nap.....I am so tired but don;t want to sleep during the storm.
Quick comment: prescribing info for synthroid and armour  all say that patients with adrenal insufficiency need to have adrenals treated first before thyroid meds. It is actually on there as a caution for worsening adrenal symptoms...I will have to definately find both pi sheets. I think the reason why some patients on armour crash is the fact that their adrenals aren't ready for the T3 to hit the body as fast and hard as it does. So, you get the double dose of t4 and t3. Personally I have had adrenal weakness for the past 4 yrs and bounce around over and under. I haven't had any issues on armour because I am increasing sllloooowwwwllly. The downside is that I have to put up with the fatigue and hypo symptoms from going slow. Also my dr won't let me go any quicker.
I know prescribing info on armour does suggest increases every 2-3 weeks and testing every 4. Once again though, each person is differant.

[satenig2]

this is alot of info to digest and learn!  to get the 45mg. i'm cutting the armour in1/2 , then 1/2 into 1/4s.  the rx is for 60mg., but again i feel that's too much.  it really slows down my metabolism. it's awful. like i said when my adrenals get straightened out, maybe i will feel even better.  right?
in the reply back from my dr., she said everything looks normal.  that i want the t3 high and the tsh low.  she said t4 is less important.  

i think i need to really think all this info thru.  i just want to feel better. how long will it take for my adrenals to get better??....

[laura1967]

Your reverse T3 is 1 point away from being over...hmmm ...it kind of looks like your pooling t3....Your tsh is good. Now when you are on armour you cannot go by the tsh as it will always look hyper but isn't. Your t4 level should be in the normal and your t3 should actually be in the high normal to high range at optimum levels. More than anything you should be treated by symptoms with armour more than by the #'s.
Most importantly is how are you feeling??
As Stella and Peggy have said....important to break up dosage into at least twice a day,  and next time you go for bloodwork do not take meds until after your blood draw. It will give false higher results, per my endo. I would suggest a follow-up reverse t3 with your next thyroid panel.

[satenig2]

you are both touching on something very important to me.  that because my adrenals are soo bad that maybe i should slow down on the armour.  it was such a big jump all of a sudden.  my t3 skyrocketed to 397 quickly.  i'm going to stay at 45mg for awhile or split it up before 2 pm to see how that feels.. thanks

[satenig2]

i'm not following you...reverse t3 1 point from away from being over?? what do you mean ? is that good or bad? what's normal t4? ( scroll up to see my #s)  i'm not feeling all that great..

been laying here thinking about stopping the armour and just taking my vitamins and alittle zanax for pain and mood.  i'll see what tomorrow brings.  good night.

ps like i said befoe the more hair coming out in my comb can not be good, due to low tsh.  thank you all  and maybe i'll try breaking  the dose up during the day till 2pm.

i'm sorry, i'm kinda feeling better, but nothing to shout about!

[stacy870]

Hi, i started on Armour four months ago. One of the reasons I wanted armour was because I had read so much about hair loss with Synthroid.
I feel so much better, but I am having major hair loss.
    I have lost about half of my hair. There are no bald spots yet, but if I stand under a light, you can see my scalp and my part looks much wider. I am confused because I though Armour was supposed to be better about the hair loss.
   I have been noticing my hair falling out by the root, and was telling everyone. They all said I was overreacting, it is from coloring my hair, etc., but I have been coloring my hair for years and it has never fallen out! I think that I know when my hair starts coming out at the root and basically just pulling out it is not "normal hair loss". Give me a break.
    Why does everyone want to insist that it is "normal" or that it is from coloring my hair when it all started when I took the thyroid pill? Jeez.
I will never stop coloring my hair as I have premature grey and there is no way in H___ I am going to have thinning hair PLUS Grey!
     I know people mean well, they just cannot relate when they have not experienced it. Also, I find with my self, I am much more accepting of weight gain, hair loss, physical appearnce of others than in myself, so i can understand why they tell me not to worry. It is not happening to them.
     It is hard for me since I was known for my "beautiful" thick hair and I was actually a hair model at one point. When my husband and I first met, he told me how much he loved my hair and to never cut it. On Friday, he finally admitted it looks thin and flat. I was actually happy he said something about it because I was feeling crazy because I could see it and everyone was telling me not to worry. Now he said maybe I should cut it to help hide the thinning. So, I am glad he suggested that because I was worried he would not want me to cut it.
     I also scoped out a wonderful wig place nearby and it has the most beautiful wigs if it comes down to it. I was curious about extensions. I read on another thread that one woman's hair was even thinner after she had them taken out. I am guessing they are not a good idea?
    Anyway, I am wondering if any of you have had the hair loss on armour and did it stop and did your hair grow back? And why the heck does it fall out anyway? (layman's terms if possible....)

[peggy64]

Stacey,

Hi, I am so sorry for your problem. It seems we all seem to have some symptom that really homesteads and reeks havoc on our lives. Mine is not hair loss, but insomnia.

I don't know, it would be hard to say which is harder, but at least insomnia is not something others can see, except for my fatigue and poor memory and tired eyes.

I know I have been taking hair skin and nail vitamins and an extra b complex and have not had hair issues. I attribute it to that. You might want to try it. If you do, it takes about 2-3 weeks before you will see any benefit from it.

Let me know. hope it works for you.

[iunderstand69]

Hey all,
This is Sally.  I am now hyperthyroid - because of being on too much armour.  She reduced me today from 240 mg to 180 mg.  I currently had a miscarraige and I am trying to become regulated due to my dr. increased my armour by way too much.  Has anyone else had to reduce their meds?  Just curious, if I will have some symtoms like I had when I was increasing?

[peggy64]

Hi Sally, I had this hyper happen to me because of the med. What was your Labs at your last check? What is your labs now that you are hyper?

They had me stay off for a week, then restart at a lower dose.

My symptoms were feeling somewhat paranoid..I hate to say that, but that is basically what it was.  Super fast heart rate, ears were supersensitive, felt very energetic, liked that part.

Passed very quick after stopping med.  

HOpe you feel better....

[firecracker2283]

Stacy,
I had a lot of hair loss with Synthroid. I've been on Armour seven years, and the hairloss is not bad now, but it continued until they got me on the correct dosage or Armour.  Maybe your under or over treated. Some of my hair did grow back and it looks fine, but it isn't as thick as it was before the hypo.

Sally,
Please accept my condolences for your loss.

I am also on 240 mg armour, but my TSH is .03 and the doctor is trying to get me to back off on the dosage. He said my Free T4 and Free T3 were off too, but I can't recall the numbers at the moment. I tried it for a week at 180mg but had hypo symptoms again. I think maybe it was too much of a decrease, so I have to talk to my doc again.

[laura1967]

firecracker- Your test results will look high with armour. Most people feel good when their tsh looks a little hyper and Free T3 usually looks normal high or high. My dr said you should treat symptoms with armour more than the test results. In fact she said that the tsh isn't something she really pays to much attention to when on armour.
Probably why you felt better before.

[stacy870]

Peggy64,
     I was reading about the adrenals and how some are taking liquid vitamin B. I don't understand all the adrenal stuff, (don't know what they are) but I think the liquid B vitamins may help with the hair loss as well. I am taking fish oil and I will go to Vitamin Shoppe where they have supplements for hair and nails all in one pill. I almost bought them a month ago, but the hair loss was not as severe yet and they are about $24.00 for one month and I was worried about spending the money! Now I will splurge on it...I have also read one woman said her endo suggested evening primose oil, but that is not recommended during pregnancy.  For now I am thinking of going lighter (hair color) just to make the contrast between my hair and scalp less evident.  I have also heard of people using self-tanner on the scalp to make the contrast less apparent, but I don't know if I could stand to put it on my scalp!

firecracker2283-
   You are right. I am trying to get pregnant (for 6 months now and nothing has happened), So my endo has me on xtra to keep me within the new pregnancy guidelines. My TSH is a 1.5. I think this is too low based an the amount of hair that has fallen out. I also have a racing heart sometimes when I lie down. (infrequent).
   But, since I will be forty soon I need to get pregnant and my endo said I need to stay at 1.5, and so did my OB-GYN.
I am glad your hair is looking good now!
It sounds awful in a way, but i am so glad that others have had the same problems. It does bring comfort. When I told my endo my hair was falling out, he looked shocked and said the medicine should not be causing it. Funny how the bottle says, "May cause hair loss in children..." I think they put "children" so that the adults won't be scared away!
This endo is supposed to be tops and sees tons of thyroid patients and he was dumfounded when i told him my hair was falling out! Give me a break!
I came on these boards and it was the only place I heard the truth!  Thank You!

  

[sidneythyroid]

That's what I am taking I am only on synthyroid but may hair is soft and silky helps nails too. They sale this at Winn-Dixie grocery stores. It cost around $11.00-20.00 a bottle depending on where you go take it with juice or smoothies taste like **** but works great. I feel the same way about the doctors its like my life is two shovels of dirt away and you tell me a bunch of **** and dictate what you want simple things like B12 shots regular doctor telling me No. What the heck is happening wouldn't they want you to have vitamens or what?

[iunderstand69]

On the hair comment, Thank the Lord, mine has finally stopped falling out and growing back.  I think one thing that has helped my hair is evening primrose oil.  I thought I would share that with you all.  

I don't know all of my numbers because I was in the car when I was on phone with my Dr.  I do know my tsh was 0.001  

Thanks,
Sally

[WhatIsNormal]

I went to my Doc. on the 16th, he said it was too early to check my thyroid levels. (I saw him last on July 11th) He doesn't want to test me untill sept. I explained to him that some dr's feel that testing the thyroid levels every 4 weeks with Armour was more appropriate, and since he has never actually prescribed this before maybe he should consider it) NOPE! He also didn't want to refer me to an endo untill I get my bloodwork back. I tried explaining to him, that I have gained 10lbs since the switch from levo, and he suggested that probably wasn't to do with the thyroid at all. Or my dry skin, brittle nails. I just switched DR.'s and now I feel as if I have to do it all over again. Don't they cover this stuff in medical school? One plus is that my hair is no longer falling out. So I may be fat but darnit I'm not bald!

[laura1967]

WhatIsNormal- I found the prescribing information sheet for armour and it explains that increases should be done every 2-3 weeks and blood tested every 4 weeks. We will have it on the health pages very shortly so you can print it and take it to your dr.

[Rnrsq]

My Doctor increased my dose from 60mg to 120mg. I'm still tired but feeling better in the energy department. What I am having trouble with is my mood. Holy Cow, I'm really really irritable. Last visit my labs from 6 weeks ago were.
TSH = 4.41
FF4  =1.1
FF3 = 2.2
Heck maybe I have been sooo tired that I let a lot of folks run all over me and now I'm finally feeling well enough to tell them to take a flying leap.

[bretbunch]

I haven't posted for awhile, but I thought I would check in and see how everyone is doing.  I'm still holding study at 105mg, and 1 1/2 weeks away from my blood test.  Starting to have a little bit of breathing problems, like I get when I'm low.  I'm sure that I'll need a dosage change.  

Having a bit of stress in my life lately!  I know that stress affects the thyroid.  Does it make the medication not work as well?  Any suggestions on what you do to relieve some stress?  

I've also been fighting a cold which is never fun when you take thyroid meds.  I could take cold medicine when I was on synthroid, without any problems.  Has anyone ever tried cold medicine while on Armour?  I'm scared to try it because I don't want palpitations.  I'm through the worst of the cold now but want info for next time around.  

Lori

[firecracker2283]

After my meds were stablized, I was able to have my son with no problems.  As one doctor put it to me, once your thyroid hormones are adjusted...you'll be "fertile Myrtle".  So keep your chin up!  

A TSH of 1.5 doesn't sound low, unless you feel better when it is higher. Are you feeling it is too low just because of your hair and the heart palpatations?  It may take a while before the Armour helps slow your hair loss.

As far as the heart palpatations...Is your Endo watching your Free T4 and Free T3 counts?   Most people on Armour don't have issues with it, but I have spoken with a few people who get heart palpatations from the extra T3.  Armour has a higher ratio of T3/T4 than what a human body would naturally produce. (I don't have the exact ratios in my memory, but if you want them, I can find them)

That's a good thing if your body has a hard time breaking down T4 into T3, but if you metabolize T4 without many problems, it gives you an extra shot of T3 when you take your pill which can cause your heart to flutter.  It doesn't necessarily mean your overmedicated.

Splitting your dose and taking it over the course of the day, as people on this forum have talked about, could help alleviate the heart flutters.

A few of the people (on the About.com Thyroid forum) I've spoken with who have this issue have actually been prescribed a smaller dose of Armour PLUS a vert small dose of levothyroxine (synthroid) to level out the ratios. They still get the benefits of armour, but also get enough T4 to keep the ratio closer to what their body would naturally produce.  They have exceptional and creative doctors who micro-manage their blood levels, which seems to be the opposite of most doctors!  I think that if I suggested this to my doctor, he'd probably flip!

[firecracker2283]

Hair loss is one of the classic symptoms of hypothyroidism.  I'm surprised your endo didn't know that. I think that it isn't so much the medicine causing it, as the disease not being treated optimally.  Give the Armour a chance, and my guess is you will see a difference.

[laura1967]

Lori--- Hi there! Glad to hear from you! Yes it sounds like you need increase, me too. I get the breathing issues to when I am hypo, dull heart thuds and constipation. I am 1 week off from bloodwork to make it 6 weeks. I remember now you are right behind me. I think I am going to go in a little earlier and call in for an earlier appt., since I have my lab slip.  Have some of your symptoms gotten bettter too? As far as cold medicines are concerned...I have always read it is not a good idea to take the over the counters. I can't take any of them...I have severe reactions to them now....never use to until thyroid problems. Just take some good old fashioned high dosage vit c , zinc and some echinacea. Good to hear from you!!  :)

Rnrsq- You are still hypo with the tsh of 4.41. Are the t4 and t3 tests free's??? Please repost with the lab ranges, because they vary. Do you have hashi's?  How long have you been on the 120mgs dosage now?

[peggy64]

What is normal,

You might try telling your dr your thyroid levels feel off and tell him specifically for the lab to be run. If he declines ask him to put it in your chart that you requested it, but he declined.

If you put it that way, they could be legally responsible if they did not, so that might work.

Tell them you need the Frees as well.

[stacy870]

Wow, I did not know that blood should be tested every four weeks. I am very angry at the doctors right now. My family doctor told me that she would test my levels in 3 months, and put me on nothing. This was after I told her I was trying to get pregnant.
My TSH was a 3.4. I was having all kinds of symptoms. I told her I was constipated, and was cold all the time she said, "Oh, not from hypothyroidism"  This was after she told me my numbers indicated I had a problem but she was going to wait.

I went to an endo on my own since she was doing nothing. I told him of my terrible headaches. He said, "Oh, probably has nothing to do with it." But everything I have read says if you are getting migraines, check your thyroid!

I did not have any hair loss before taking the Armour, and yes, the hair loss is the only reason I think 1.5 may be too low. However, my endo tested it one month ago and then siad, "I don't want to see you for another 3 months" Is this the magical blowoff number or what? He said it in a way that was"this is what is going to happen". This was right after I had told him my hair was falling out and he looked shocked.

For all I know my numbers could have fallen. My physical symptoms are great, no more carpal tunnel, no more night sweats. The doc had his "nurse" call me and tell me with an air of condescending mystery: "Your numbers are PERFECT..." to which I said (without sarcasm ;) ) By the way, what ARE my numbers??? DUH.
Sorry I am pissed off and spent last night looking at 2 year old pictures of my gorgeous hair and comparing my hair now to them, so I am just feeling sad.
Have been calling new endos today and one guy who is supposed to be great is not available until January 09!
After last night my hubby threatened to flush the pills down the toilet,(because I was so upset) but I told him I wanted to cut my pills in half today. Alas, I did not have the guts to do it...sigh...
I even think if I could just find a doc who said, "yes, the hair loss is normal, here are some vitamins," it would have been much better than the big desk, white coat, cold nurse blowoff...

[peggy64]

If you are feeling great otherwise, then the armour is working and you might want to think before lowering the dosage. Try some hair skin and nail vitamins from wal mart.

Sometimes we get a deficit in b vits and this can contribute to hair loss.

Don't give up on the armour just yet. You seem to be doing great otherwise.

[mommy2two2008]

So - a new thing happening.  Every morning, right after taking my armour under the tongue, I find myself in the bathroom.  Anyone else dealing with that?  It happens when I take the noon dose too.  I am on 30 mg total.

[mommy2two2008]

BTW - I am also feeling tired a bit more lately.  Dreams are not bothering me now, just not getting enough sleep I guess.  

[laura1967]

I called my dr today and they are fitting me in at 3:45. I am going in for swollen tonsils and left ear infected, But.....I am going to give her the prescribing information sheet on armour and ask for another increase and bloodwork since it has been 5 weeks. Wish me luck!!  
For all....I put the website info for armour prescribing info on the health pages under armour info. Please give it a view....it educates our drs on the proper way to dosage, increase, and test. Totally diff from synthroid and synthetic ways.

[peggy64]

mommy, you might need an increase, if you are feeling tired.  The other issue, I am not having. However I will say that the armour does help with IBS and constipation.

[firecracker2283]

I know it is frustrating, but give it a little time on the current dose of armour (try 6 weeks), and try the vitamins like Peggy said before you give up.

The higher your TSH is the less chance there is that you'll be able to get pregnant and the more your hair will fall out (if it is related to the hypothyroidism).

As far as talking to nurses...I've been with the same doctor for seven years, and STILL have to insist they give me the test results...every time!  

[peggy64]

that is what gripes my bee HIND....you pay for, you know if you need it or not. its not like it is fun to be stuck with a needle for petes sake !!..what is it with these drs??  

Maybe we should recommend  to them that they see a therapist to help with their control issues...  :-)  I like that idea....

[anca77]

Hi everybody,

As of yesterday, I switch from Levo to Armour. I finally find a Dr. wiling to prescribe the Armour. The only problem was to get the right dosage. With my latest high TSH of 7.72 he suggested I need 100 Mcg of Levo so we decided to start with 60 Mg of Armour, 30 Mg in the morning and 30 Mg in the afternoon and then check after 3 weeks to see if I need an increase.

I took the full 60 Mg on the first day but today I took only 30 Mg in the morning and 15 Mg in the afternoon (1/2 of the pill) as I felt it is too much, my pulse is high and I have headaches. I also had flu like symptoms and throat pains in the first day.

Does anybody can give me some suggestions?  So far I fell good, I have the energy but will all my symptoms go away?

What is the equivalent of 100 Mcg Levo in Armour?

Thank you for listening.

[WhatIsNormal]

I have had very bad allergies all of my life, at one point I had a 3 bottle a week nose spray addiction. Makes my laugh histarically now. Thank God I beat that one, Anywhoooo, I have found that the NETI POT has helped emensly. I have not had to take any allergy meds perscirption or otherwise since using it. I also can't stand the heart palps so when I get a cold I start freaking out. There isn't much you can take. But the neti pot is awesome and all natural. You can get them on line or in anyhealth food store. For like 12 bucks. It's a strange practice because you have to rinse your nasal passages with non-iodized salt water. It sounds soooo strange and I was put off by it at first, but I now have less colds and it keeps my nose clear the natural way. Really it is worth a try.

[laura1967]

The conversion charts aren't really accurate, but a good place to start. 60mgs armour is equal to approx 75mcg-88mcg of levo or synthroid. You will probably eventually need more than you are on for sure. You are feeling the active T3 hitting your system. The raciness and headaches should pass within a week. Just make sure you increase properly or you will crash with hypo symptoms. Please look at the health pages and see the prescribing information sheet you can go to for armour. It will help you to understand the increases. Just take it easy if you feel it is too much and give your body time to adjust. Don't be fearful of it though.

[anca77]

Thank you for responding.
What is strange is the morning pill of 3 Mcg Armour is fine, no side effects, but after the afternoon pill I start having all those symptoms. They all go away later in the day and then I fell perfect

[peggy64]

Maybe you can split your dosage into 1/4s while you are adjusting. That might help your body get used to the t3 without the large dump. Then after a week or you, you can go back to 2 doses a day, or 3.

I know that when I do it that way, I have lots less of those worrisome symptoms and side effects.

The main thing is when this happens just talk to yourself to keep calm and that it will pass. This will keep it from crescendoing into a panic or anxiety issue.

[firecracker2283]

no kidding!  I think doctors and nurses are used to everyone turning to them for answers, so they get knocked off their self-imagined pedestal when someone questions their decision. They're also so busy, that they forget that a lot of their job is "customer service".  I had one nurse tell me she didn't have time to look up the specifics of my lab work because, after all, they have 20,000 patients to keep track of.  

I told her that as one of the 20,000, I pay the same as each and every other person that goes there and I deserve the same service.  She said "well you are getting it" and hung up!  That day she learned that she shouldn't mess with an undermedicated hypothyroid patient that isn't in complete control of her emotions.  I'm only a few miles from the office, so I went down there and talked with the office manager about her...all of a sudden I don't get much resistance from the nurses!  I am also happy to report that since being properly treated with Armour, I no longer have "rage" moments!  LOL

[peggy64]

you are my HERO !!

[stacy870]

Now I see why you call yourself firecracker!!! Good job!

I told my GP I was freezing all the time,(actually brought a heated rice bag to her office the first time)I told her I had pain in my wrists, depression, constipation, and terrible migraines.
She blew me off and kept asking me, "Why do you think you have migraines?" which made me uncomfortable. Then, after my blood test came back positive for hypothyroidism, she told me we would do nothing.
But the worst part is that she told me that this is all simply about taking a pill once a day and there is nothing more to it. She has been helpful, but I just called her about the hair loss (since my endo is like a brick wall) and she told me it has nothing to do with the thyroid medication. I know for a fact that my hair started falling out as soon as I started taking it and it says a side effect is hair loss, so why the denial? I am so glad I read other women's posts since it prepared me for the hair loss. Can you imagine what it would be like before the internet?

She also had hypothyroidism herself and I was so excited about that at first because I thought she would be an expert. She actually told me she did not believe exercise or diet could help. ???I am grateful to her for running the test and for recommending Armour, but other than that I feel like I need to find a new GP and Endo since I feel so invisible.

I am happy to find these boards. I was also told by my mother in-law that it is all about popping a pill and there is nothing special about it. This was the info I was given by those around me. She said she had a thyroid problem and I said, "Are you hyper or hypo?"  She looked at me like I was crazy and said, "I don't know. My doctor takes care of all of that..." I just feel sad in general about how healthcare is and I don't want to doctor bash. Believe me, I love and appreciate every caring doctor I come across. Just seems like there is alot of chaff to go through before you get to the wheat!

[anca77]

Thank you.
Today I took 45 Mcg of Armour split in three and I felt much better. I believe my body is adjusting. I still had a headache in the morning until I took the second dose.  

[peggy64]

glad that helped some. If it seems to bother you, you might want to back up and start slowly titrating up to the rx dosage. that is what I did....

[firecracker2283]

I've had doctors tell me it is as simple as  'just taking a pill" too.  If they're ignoring what you are saying, then it just means its time to find another.  Still, give the armour and lower TSH a chance.

I agree about the forums.  I would be in sad shape if I couldn't trade experiences with others that are having the same issues as me. They were a major source of information to me when I first started out.   It does make me angry when I'm talked down to, or not taken seriously by doctors, but after 12 years, I've developed a thick skin now.  I don't have any problem questioning a doctors advice if it doesn't sound right. Fortunately, the doctor I have now respects my opinion and we can work together. Now the nurses are a different story!!

All of the women in my family have hypothyroidism.  One of my sisters thinks that the doctor has everything under control and says "who is she to question it".  She doesn't watch her numbers, doesn't take a pro-active approach to her own health, and doesn't understand why the rest of us feel better than she...she keeps complaining and then says "but the doctor says I'm fine.."  She won't listen to us, so we've quit talking.

[anca77]

You should try and have your sister join this forum, maybe then she will start listening.

[WhatIsNormal]

What's up with the "just a pill theory", is it really that simple for some ppl. I guess it can be. My brother was diagnosed hypo just after I was and he hasn't changed a thing, takes his pill , and that's it. But not me. When my hair started falling out my Dr. told me to see a dermatologist it has nothing to do with the meds. Again, do they cover this in med school? She also told me that it was the best disease for me to have because I was gonna lose sooo much weight, and be a whole new person. Just one pill a day! So needless to say I switched docs but this one isn't much better. I guess we just gotta keep going till we find someone who is knowledgable in our specific areas. And this forum has been amazingly helpful. Thanks all, and good luck.

[laura1967]

Yes unfortunately ignorance is bliss with drs.....unfortunately there arent a lot of choices in some areas. I was doing some searches on dr in rochester and saw a great one who is an md and bio-identical. I think it was on a thyroid dr search. I will search again and let you know. I am from wayne county.....Newark ....live in ft myers florida now. I  will let you know if I find it.

[laura1967]

Okay I found it...I had gotten it for my mom. Her name is Dr. Mary Wise, she is family medicine, alternative medicine, traditional and holistic. Her website is www.drmarywise.com, which explains her whole practice. She is located at 1654 Monroe Ave...phone# [phone]. She sounds wonderful....not too many good docs up there in that area who expand out to alternative. Let me know how it goes if you call and go to her. She treats difficult thyroid issues.  :)

[WhatIsNormal]

I think I have also come across that name. Well it's worth a phone call anyways. just moved to wayne county, official 315-er now. Thanks for the number, I am going to check her out now.  

[laura1967]

Oh my....I was born a 315er and we have always used that term...LOL  Okay spill it, what town? There aren't any worthy docs in wayne county that specialize in thyroid. I think I may have seen one name in palmyra....I would be driving to the city!
Once you get your thyroid straightened out any anxiety and panic issues should lessen.
Thyroid issues are not an over night fix though.

[firecracker2283]

Please excuse me if I'm slow and missed something, but are you talking about Michigan?  

[firecracker2283]

If you are, then there is definitely not a good doctor in Palmyra.  I live about 11 miles from there.  I have heard of one in Lambertville/Temperance down near the Ohio line.

[laura1967]

No we are talking about new york....the rochester area.  :)  :)

[firecracker2283]

Whew!  That's good news!  Then there probably is a good one in Palmyra!

[bretbunch]

Thanks for the information regarding what to do with a cold.  It seems that my cold has passed along now, so I have written down the information for future use.  I do plan to go and find the Neti Pot and try it to see what happens.  Has anyone taken cough medicine?  The pharmicist said that Robitussin DM is okay, but when I took one dose of it, my achy pains across my back were worse.  Seems weird because there is no warning for thyroid on the label.  Has anyone else had any weird reaction to cough medicine?  It may be just because I'm not on my optimum dose yet--not sure.  

Laura--how did your doctor appointment and blood work go?  Did you increase your dose yet?  I'm a little bit behind you and I'm going in on Friday morning for my blood work.  I'm sure I won't hear from my endo until next week.  I have to say that I'm a bit nervous to increase the dose again, not looking forward to the first week with possible raciness and anxiety!!  But--if it will get me better--then so be it!!!  Also, I'm in the middle of trying to pack up this house so we can move.  Yikes!!  Too much going on!

Peggy64:

How are you doing on Armour now?  How long has it been and do you feel that your body is starting to adjust more??

[laura1967]

Hi there! I went on friday for my bloodwork...been crashed in bed for 2 days very sick feeling! Either it is from not enough meds or a hashi attack. She also tested my reverse T3 to see if i am pooling my meds. I have never had any effects of armour increase...only when i use to increase my synthroid.
Yes i have had reactions to over counter meds...dont touch any of them anymore because of it. Most do have thyroid disease warnings on them.
Hang in there like i am trying so hard to do! :) :)
What dosage are you up to? I am on 75mgs now. Yes we are about 1 week apart i think. I ended up going 1 week early on thurs. because i was feeling so yucky.

[peggy64]

I have just increased yesterday up to 30 mg. Due to my adrenal fatigue issue and trying to avoid another adrenal crash like I had, I have been slow moving.

I am taking Isocort for the adrenals, and that stuff so far is helping me not feel so "anxitated" a cross between agitated and anxiety when I wake up every 1-2 hours. YES that is still going on, but I am hoping that the isocort is going to help with that. I did have one time where I slept for 3 hours, so I was grateful for that.

I have been taking about 4-6 gm of C a day, so I am hoping that will help me not to have to take to much OTC meds. And also zinc. That is good for the immune system.

My left arm tingles so much, I can't figure out what that is unless I need to up the magnesium.

You take care and thanks so much for asking.

[bretbunch]

Sorry to hear that you have been so sick for the past 2 days!!!  I hope it passes soon!  I am still hanging in there at 105mg of Armour.  I take 75mg in the morning and then 30 mg 4 hours later, which seems to work for me.   I'm looking forward to finding out what my blood work shows next week.  

Not sure what the reverse T3 is for and what does it mean if you are pooling your meds?  

Peggy64:

Sorry to hear that you are still having trouble sleeping!  I have had my moments with that too, but not long term--thank goodness.  
Good to hear that you are going slow with the armour and doing okay.  I think that you will find your dose, in time, and feel a lot better.  I know we all look forward to that day!!

Take care all and I'll be back on when I get my blood test results next week.  

Lori

[laura1967]

Okay need an outside view other than mine on these lab results....will give the past 3 testings.

6/10/08     TSH   3.059              range( .350-3.0)
            Free T4  1.37                        (0.61-1.76)
            Free T3   3.5                         (2.3-4.2)

7/2            TSH   2.140
             Free T4  1.16
             Free T3   3.5

8/22          TSH    0.24
             Free T4   1.3
             Free T3   381                        (230-420)
          Reverse T3   26                        (11-32)


Looking at this my T3 level really has not risen that much but my tsh is at a 0.24. My doctor said she would only increase me to 90mgs on weekends and 75 through the week. I still feel like **** and was crashed for the past 4 days and very foggy. What is my problem?!  What do you make of this???
Could my adrenals be holding up progress?  Should I be on more armour?  I am getting dull palps at night when lying in bed maybe 2 times per evening.  I don't think my dr is going to give me any more armour.

[mommy2two2008]

Hey Laura - I can't comment on your labs at all, given the fact that I have armour but I have never had an abnormal lab result.  But what I do think is that you could be on to something with the adrenals.  Have they done the testing for that?  

I have been getting the chest feeling that you have mentioned before.  Its like I guess 30 min to 1 hr after I let the morning dose dissolve.  Today I am having pain in the top of my head too.  All of this stops with the taking of the second dose at lunch time.  Also, I have upped my dosage to 3 1/4 grain pills a day (45 mg) and have found that I can only do one pill in the a.m. and 2 at the noon dose and not the other way around.  If I take the two pills in the a.m. I get the chest feeling worse and I guess some anxiety with it.  I am wondering if this is normal or what?  My doc wanted me to take 60 mg.  I just think that is too much at the present and could send me over the edge.  When he gave me the armour, my TSH was 0.74 and my Ft3 was 3.41 (range 2.57 - 4.43).  He was trying to stop the swelling.  It has not stopped :(  but the pain / pressure has a bit.  

[laura1967]

Heh Mommie!  Hmmm I wonder what your tsh is now...you aren't exeriencing any hyper feelings?  Hmmm again...LOL   I can't take armour sublingually...it makes me feel like I am on speed bad!  Too much dump at once for me.
My adrenals go up and down. My saliva panel showed back in feb that i was in mid norm and high am cortisol as i have recently had 3 high am cortisol test results. But when i go to my naturopath i always test weak for adrenals. But back when i did the saliva panel i came in low with dhea which is also an adrenal hormone. Maybe that is the one i actually need. I started taking a small 5mg dosage today of dhea to see if it helps. Plus this is my pms week so naturally i always feel like junk! lol
Hopefully stella will step in tonight and take a look. I just think it is odd that my t3 level hasnt changed much. Maybe i need a small amount of cytomel with the armour. It looks to me like i am still not getting enough t3. I test again in 5 weeks.
Did your dr ever check you for autoimmune? Maybe you can add something natural for imflammation like tumeric. I will take a look at natural anti-imflammatories for you.

[purrballs]

I do not know why I got no email notices from june until now!?!?!?

Ok my story....found the stopthethyroid site a year ago on a thyroid group on sparkpeople and threatened my doc into letting me try it.  From there went to an endo, another endo and finally a naturopath that I drive an hour and a half to see but am doing better.  Take 400 mg of magnesium a day along with 120 mg selenium, a multi, plant sterols/stanols, garlic, cinnamon, red yeast rice, fish oil, evening primrose oil, b  complexes a couple times a day and a few script meds.  My armour is at 3 grains but lately I'm thinking I either need to remember to always take all of it and on time or it needs upped.  I have one hand that is going into arthritis or something whenever I forget to take the 2nd dose during the day.  So far she doesn't seem to think I need to test my adrenals but I'm not so sure...still not really energetic lately...was doing much more so for awhile and I need to get my act back in gear as we're working on rehabbing a restaurant to open hopefully soon.

[mommy2two2008]

Hey Laura!  Thanks for responding.  I have no antibodies (TPOab <10; TGab ,20) and I have consistently had normal TSH (1.040; 0.557; 0.74).  The 1.040 was from the endo that started my Levo treatment. 0.557 was after starting Levo and the 0.74 was before the Armour.  I am just worried I guess b/c I did not have a nodule on US in April and now doc has said at 2 appts that I have one now.  The thing that really gets me is I think I can feel the one he is feeling and I think there is a cyst or another nodule close to it.  (This has come up in the last 5 months - my 6 mo mark is 9/3).  I guess I just have to hope for Hashi with no antibodies (I did have enlarged thyroid with a heterogeneous texture = hashi appearance on US).  I am so tired of my neck feeling tight and uncomfortable and feeling the effects of low thyroid and my TSH being normal.  I guess we will see what he says on 9/2.  I am going in there with the request for a US to check things out.  Waiting is driving me nuts meanwhile b/c I still have swollen or "shotty" glands all over my neck - even some on the back of the neck.  I have also had 2 rounds of antibiotics during this 5, almost 6 month period and I was not sick either time. :(  

Also, do you know if there are adverse effects of taking thyroid medication when all of the blood tests have always been normal.  It could not CAUSE my now nodule(s), could it?

I will say that as a whole I FEEL BETTER than when I was taking the synthroid, my neck swelling is just not subsiding.  I also feel better than when I was not on medication.  Go figure!  I guess I am just worried and confused.

[stella5349]

Hi all

I don't know if you are having the same trouble pulling up this thread as I am. It takes forever to load.

It seems so many are looking to get a suggestion on things and I am having trouble sorting the questions and responding. It takes forever for me to load the thread.

Laura - I briefly saw you are having some issues. - but lately I have been really rushed in reading these posts.

Can you PM me? We'll work this through.

Kim - Swelling again. What's going on?  

I know I havn't been on much - I am off work tomorrow so I will take more time tomorrow .

If anyone wants to PM me ( I am answering these quickly) more than board lurking - go ahead. I will do what I can to answer anything I can.

[peggy64]

Hi Laura,

Have they tested your pituatary gland? Hope you are feeling better.

[laura1967]

Hi Peggy, Yes they tested my pituitary....everything fine there. I had a bad day yesterday. I took a low dose of dhea and had a BAD reaction. Thought i was losing my mind....won't take that again!

[laura1967]

This thread is taking to long to load now, so....PLEASE SEE NEW THREAD WITH THE NAME:
" THOSE OF US ON ARMOUR- #2 "

[laura1967]

Bump for new people to read.....please post on new thread #2

[Glee1959]

Hello,

I am glad to see this site. I have been on Armour since Feb 2009. It is changing my life. My doctor is great and is now taking on lots of harrasment from the Board regarding his use of the Armour. I would encourage only the use of Armour and it is cheaper...with great results. The correct dose is the tricky part and one that I am working on. I have lost 15 lbs,don't have cold hands and feet,my skin on my hands no longer looks like a snake and my hair stopped coming out in handfuls in the shower! If you can find a doctor that will work with you on physical symptoms vs. lab reports you will get better. I have seen ten doctors,endo's etc. in the past 10 years and because my numbers (TSH) were borderline they would just say, exercise and eat less. Most of the doctors don't want to help patients.....they just want the money. They know Armour will help you,yet they don't give it to you. My first education about Armour was on a website: Stop The Thyroid Maddness and if you are wanting to get well go to this site. The woman who set this up suffered for years as a lot of us have. She is a God send,she even has a list of doctors by State that use Armour to heal their patients. My doctor is Dr. John Launius in Lewisville Texas. The number to his office is: ( 972 ) 315-8588. Call him for a doctor who cares about your symptoms and wants to help you get well.