I am using Maltofer, first 25 drops, then increased it to 30 drops and then 40. According to the instructions in Maltofer, if one has hidden anemia, he or she can take 20-40 drops per day. I do not dare to take more, because I am afraid of hemocromatosis.
Now my hair dropping has ended. But this improvement may also be due to my long use of an antibiotic. As the decreasing of Thyroid Erfa dose was difficult early in this year, increasing of it is also difficult now.
http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Non-Anaemic-Iron-Deficiency.htm
Therapeutic trial of iron. If iron deficiency is likely but is difficult to confirm, eg in the presence of chronic disease, it may be appropriate to try iron therapy and repeat blood tests after a few weeks.
Investigating the cause of iron imbalance
It is less certain who needs investigating in iron depletion, but the following information may be relevant:
Coeliac disease is common and easily missed. Some authors state that coeliac disease may also manifest as iron depletion.[15] -I do not have coeliac disease.
The British Society for Gastroenterology guidelines comment that, on current evidence, the prevalence of gastrointestinal (GI) malignancy is low in patients with iron depletion. They suggest that, from the available evidence, only postmenopausal women and men >50 years require GI investigation for iron depletion.[2] - I am 65, but think that I do not have gastrointestinal malignancy. Maybe have reflux, it is a new symptom.
Diets which are borderline low in iron are common. - I eat much meat.
If the blood picture does not improve with treatment, eg a trial of iron therapy - see 'Iron therapy' below, then evaluate further.
Differential diagnosis
Other causes of a similar blood picture (microcytosis and hypochromia) are:
Haemoglobinopathies. - No, I do not have. Only alpha thalassemia could not be tested.
Hypothyroidism. - I m on medication, the iron status has been similar even on higher Thyroid medication.
Anaemia of chronic disease (but iron-deficiency can coexist).[3] - I have chronic diseases.
Myelodysplastic disorders. I don't know. Hardly.
My atrial fibrillation was removed at the end of february. I have had infections almost all the time. According to an endocrinologist I had to decrease my Thyroid Erfa from 2.5 to 2 pills. I did not succeed to decrease it totally, I have been on 2 or 2.25 pills.
I let my hemoglobin fractions to be studied - I had no abnormal variants. Thus I had no hemoglobinopathy (alfa thalassemia could not, however, be studied with the test). Serum hepcidin was measured in February, but I didn't get the result earlier than on last week. It was 1.2 (ref. 0.7-16.8). In spring I had too thick endometrium, and again in the autumn I had an endometrial polyp (curettage will again be done in next January). My lung tumor was CT scanned for the last time in spring. No more scanning will be done, because it is not growing in size. I got new heart rhythm problems in March, had stress testing, coronry disease was suggested, but it could be excluded with new testing in atumn.
Because the hematologist in February said that I do not need extra iron, I have not taken iron. I have however thought that I may have some secondary anemia (eg. due to chorinc disease). My intermittent around-ear pains started in March. Since that I have had many appointments with ENT doctors, with three neurologists and two dentists. The cause for the pain was not revealed earlier that in autumn. I have chronic tonsillitis, with pus discharging from my left tonsil. When I saw my hepcidin result, I began to make a summary of my iron results.
In 2010 I had infections and six-month persistent atrial fibrillation. Hb and red cell count increased , particularly at the onset of the atrial fibrillation, Hb being as high as 156, and red cell count as high as 5.64 (ref. 3.9-5.2).
2011-2012 (range in parentheses), reference range, N=15
red cell count (4.84-5.13), ref. 3,9-5,2 E12/l
Hb 140 (136-146), ref. 117-155
MCV 82.3 (79-84), ref. 82-98
MCH 27.9 (27-29), ref. 27-33
My red cells are always fairly small, but Hb and red cell count good.
At the beginning of 2013, when another atrial fibrillation started, my red cell count was 5.52 and hemoglobin 153, MCV 81 ja MCH 28;
on Jan 17, on continuing atrial fibrillation, red cell count was 5.13, Hb 140, MCV 79!, MCH 27. The AF was cardioverted at the end of February. On May17, 2013 red cell count 4.86, Hb 135, MCV 80, MCH 28. On Sep26, 2013 red cell count 5.0, Hb 142, MCV 81, MCH 29.
Ferritin
Feb10, 2007 35
Dec17, 2009 57
Jan9, 2011 44 (ref. 5-90)
Jan22, 2013 53
Soluble transferrin receptor
Apr12 2008 1.1 (ref. 0.9-2.3)
Jan12, 2009 1.3 ( " )
Jan22, 2013 1.1 (ref. 0.8-1.8, in iron deficiency transferrin receptor increases).
Plasma Fe
Jun24, 2011 17 (ref. 9-34)
The question is whether I have some kind of anemia. Hepcidin could solve this. Because I have low normal hepcidin, I may not have anemia of chronic disease, thus I may have slight iron deficiency anemia. Hepcidin increases due to inflammatory conditions.
I think that because I have lots of red cells, their small size and low hemoglobin content does not matter. I feel fairly good. I only have pressure in my upper abdomen sometimes when walking. Its cause has not been cleared up. I have low respiratory frequency, thus I may not have shortage of oxygen. When I was without thyroid medication, the respirartory freguency was 8/min. Just now when am at the computer, it is 10, sometimes again 8, but often even 12. My tisses may have good ability to absorb oxygen. Maybe that is why the hematologist suggested that I may have abnormal hemoglobin (with good oxygen carriage ability??).
As to possible errors in the estimation of my iron status, my frequent dehydration may cause error in the red cell indexes. The red cell counts and Hb may be overestimated. This may further cause error in the calculated indexes.
Now I have began to take iron. It will be interesting to see, whether my new red cells grow larger. A doctor said that they may not increase in size (but I think this may apply only to anemia of chronic disease). I hope that my infections will disappear.
Hyperventilation was excluded today. I know nothing else about my dyspnea.
Maybe i have secondary anemia (chronic disease). Blood hepsidin was measured today and blood cell morpholgic examination was made.
I saw a gyne yesterday and have to go to a hospital gyne a few days later.
I still have dyspnea, which began in December 2012. Due to the respiratory infection in January 2013 I still have coughing at least at night. And I still have atrial fibrillation (from Jan 6).
Now I am thinking of hyperventilation syndrome. Is it common in hypothyroid people?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperventilation_syndrome
I tried to decrease my respiratory rate as was adviced. It was not difficult to decrease it to less than 4/minute. But it did not help my ability to deep inspiration. My upper abdomen is tight.
Today I increased my Thyroid dose. Could it help me in this problem?
My ferritin was 53 (ref. 13-150) and soluble transferrin receptor 1.1 (0.8-1.8) (Jan 22).
Thyroid stimulating hormone (TSHRAb) is low, <1. Thus it will not cause my eye symptoms.
I have now a severe respiratory infection
Today I had a possibility to see an internal medicine spcialist. He gives haematology as an interest. He said that I do not need iron supplement. According to him, soluble transferrin receptor is reliable, and because it is normal, I have no need of extra iron.
Because my red cells are small and with little haemoglobin, he said that I may have an exceptional haemoglobin form.
In my latest lab results from January 17
Hb was 140 (previously, Jan 6, 153)
erythrocyte count 5.13 (previously 5.52)
MCV 79! (previously 81)
MCH 27 (previously 28)
He had not ever heard that hypothyroid patients should have high ferritin. According to him, my ferritin is OK. He said that I am hyperthyroid due to overmedication with Thyroid Erfa. My TSH should not be 0.025! I said that THS goes easily down in those who get thyroid hormone supplement. For instance 25 mcg thyroxine per day is plus/minus zero for many people, because the thyroid gland decreases hormone production. Many patients become hypothyroid, if thyroid hormone supplementation is not increased enough.
The doctor said that I do not listen to him or I dispute with him (if I give different opinions).
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I have a lung tumour (8-9 mm, and a couple of smaller ones), but it is silent, it does not grow. The last CT will be in April.
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If I have lots of red cells, my blood may be too thick, particularly when I am dehydrated. I am using warfarin to prevent blood clotting because of AF.
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I had my ferritin and transferrin receptor be measured today in a laboratory. Thus I'll get new results of these. TIBC is not used to be measured here routinely.
Note the symptom of low ferritin called heart palpitations.
I understand even less than I know about hemoglobin test results. I did some reading and found this info.
What does a high hemoglobin level mean?
"Higher than normal hemoglobin levels can be seen in people living at high altitudes and in people who smoke. Dehydration produces a falsely high hemoglobin measurement which disappears when proper fluid balance is restored.
Some other infrequent causes are:
>advanced lung disease (for example, emphysema),
> certain tumors,
> a disorder of the bone marrow known as polycythemia rubra vera, and
>abuse of the drug erythropoietin (Epogen) by athletes for blood doping purposes."
Other than being a diagnostic for other potential problems, I don't know that a high Hb test result is used. So, even if iron supplements raised your Hb test, what difference would it make? I would expect none.
I did find this link about soluble transferrin receptors. "Serum soluble transferrin receptor increases in iron deficiency and is usually unaffected by chronic disease states. In general, to increase sensitivity and specificity, the measurement of serum soluble transferrin receptor should be performed in combination with other tests of iron status, including ferritin, TIBC, and serum iron (refer to table below)." This leads me to believe that the sTfR test is inadequate when used as a stan alone test.
"http://www.aruplab.com/guides/ug/tests/0070283.jsp
Also, please note in the info I gave above, the statement, "Excessively low ferritin as well as low iron can resulting in hyper symptoms when raising desiccated thyroid (Armour or Erfa)." So, in spite of what your doctor said, low ferritin/iron can have be associated with being hypothyroid and has an effect of treatment. Many members, myself included, have experienced that.
Thank you for the good info you gave to me. If I begin to take iron, can my Hb exceed the upper normal limit (it is close to it now)? Does it matter? My transferrin receptor is very good, which suggests good iron situation. This confuses me. Could small red cells be merely typical of me, their size has been at the lower limit for many years?
I have read that soluble transferrin receptor is a more reliable measure for iron staus than ferritin. - By the way, my age is soon 65 and I use Thyroid Erfa. I am not tired, and I suffer from atrial fibrillation.
Since your doctor didn't provide much info, here is some info I ran across when learning about low ferritin.
"FERRITIN test: Measures your levels of storage iron, which can be chronically low in hypothyroid patients. If your Ferritin result is less than 50, your levels are too low and can be causing problems…as well as leading you into anemia as you fall lower, which will give you symptoms similar to hypo, such as depression, achiness, fatigue. If you are in the 50′s, you are scooting by. Optimally, females shoot for 70-90 at the minimum; men tend to be above 100."
"In addition, low ferritin can cause the following symptoms.
Minor aches
Fatigue
Weakness
Heart palpitations
Increased pulse
Loss of energy
Loss of libido
Confusion
Irritability
Shortness of breath
So low ferritin symptoms can mimic hypothyroidism. Shortness of breath is also a symptom of low ferritin levels. 93% of patients with ferritin under 50 ng/ml were iron deficient. Excessively low ferritin as well as low iron can resulting in hyper symptoms when raising desiccated thyroid (armour). Severely low ferritin or iron can be improved quickly with iron injections or IV iron infusion - a few weeks as compared to a few months from iron supplementation."
And from another source, "Many hypothyroid patients find that having good ferritin levels improves their use of thyroid hormone (their own body's or supplemented). The range of 70-90 is quoted as optimal for hypothyroid patients. Someone on another board asked me if I knew of any research she could show her doctor to support this. He wanted her to stop supplementing iron when she raised her ferritin from 17 to 44.
Here's some of the research I found that suggests a minimal ferritin
range of 50-70 and an optimal range for hypothyroid treatment of 70-90. I have read that in Dr. Gillespie's book, "You're Not Crazy, It's Your Hormones", she advises a ferritin level of around 100. I haven't read her book, so I can't confirm the research basis for her recommendation, but the experience of many hypothyroid patient certainly bear her out.
Improving ferritin levels can be beneficial for both reducing or eliminating hair loss & unexplained fatigue. Both of those are also frequently associated with hypothyroidism."
Also, you should be off all iron for at least 12 hours before testing to see what your body is hanging onto.
One doctor said that you can take iron some times, thats all I have got as an answer. Doctors here cannot think of any connection with thyroid hormone function and possible iron deficiency, or any discrepancy in my iron status.
I think that my chronic sinusitis and dehydration complicate my iron status. I need all the time new red cells, and my bone marrow cannot produce them fast enough to fulfill the needs without the red cells being small and pale (low in heamoglobin). Lots of red cells compensate their small sizes. That is good.
On January 6 I may have been dehydrated, and that is why the red cell count was very high (sodium was also high). The dehydration possibly caused the AF. I had abdominal pain as early as before Christmas. I may have had an infection in my stomach or pancreas. If I fix an appointment with a doctor, I have to wait for it for many days or weeks.
You really need to talk to your doctor about whether or not, you should supplement your iron.