Aa
reverse t-3 does anybody have it?
My doc says I have reverse t-3. He wants to put me on t-3 compounded only. I am so scared to rty this . Any help to calm my fears?
I have found a few labs recommendations...
"The best indicator of thyroid hormone levels in the cells is the FT3/RT3 ratio. In healthy individuals, the RT3 is usually below 250 pg/ml, and the Free T3/Reverse T3 ratio is greater than 1.8 (if Free T3 is in ng/dl) or 0.018 (if Free T3 is in pg/ml)." - Nahypothyroidism - Thyroid Blood Tests Don’t Always Tell the Whole Story
"Dr. John Lee – arguably Australia’s most progressive thyroid hormone researcher – is generally credited with setting-up this test in Australia at POW Hospital in Sydney. He suggests that if rT3 rises above 350-400pmol/L it will begin to interfere with further thyroid hormone (T4-T3) hepatic conversion and thyroid hormone transport throughout the body.
Having rT3 levels less than 140pmol/L appears to have NO adverse effects on our body (Lee: 2007)." - Reverse T3 – when the body ‘shoots blanks’…..
"The best indicator of thyroid hormone levels in the cells is the FT3/RT3 ratio. In healthy individuals, the RT3 is usually below 250 pg/ml, and the Free T3/Reverse T3 ratio is greater than 1.8 (if Free T3 is in ng/dl) or 0.018 (if Free T3 is in pg/ml)." - Nahypothyroidism - Thyroid Blood Tests Don’t Always Tell the Whole Story
"Dr. John Lee – arguably Australia’s most progressive thyroid hormone researcher – is generally credited with setting-up this test in Australia at POW Hospital in Sydney. He suggests that if rT3 rises above 350-400pmol/L it will begin to interfere with further thyroid hormone (T4-T3) hepatic conversion and thyroid hormone transport throughout the body.
Having rT3 levels less than 140pmol/L appears to have NO adverse effects on our body (Lee: 2007)." - Reverse T3 – when the body ‘shoots blanks’…..
Okay so i'm still holding out for 25 year RT3 dominance theory then lol. I've read it's better to have the RT3 in the lower end of the range. I'll have a look into some lab numbers recommended when i get back online.
As far as I know, for just over a year. Had never had rT3 tested before June of last year, but at a certain point my thyroid dose just wasn't doing it for me and increasing my dose didn't help. So it was probably for much longer, just didn't know it. My rT3 is now at 26 (9.1-24.2) on it's own but thought I'd try the t3cm.
June 21st will be reat if they give me an Rx to drain a pint a week. If not, what do you think their response would be if I drained a pint myself?
One of the prerequisites for being a health provider should be drinking at least a pint a day. I don't get where these tea-toters come off!
One of the prerequisites for being a health provider should be drinking at least a pint a day. I don't get where these tea-toters come off!
The t3CM method seems to be working well for people with adrenal issues (NOT Addisons or Pituitary issues) and since I have had a high RT3 for a long time in addition to low cortisol, I am trying it.
Paul Robinson addresses RT3 in his protocol a bit. I am taking T3 for my early dose and then NDT for the rest of the day...NO T3 only for me, which is great because you don't have to do T3 only for this protocol if you just have adrenal problems. In my case, once my RT3 gets back to normal I will do this method with NDT only.
Paul Robinson addresses RT3 in his protocol a bit. I am taking T3 for my early dose and then NDT for the rest of the day...NO T3 only for me, which is great because you don't have to do T3 only for this protocol if you just have adrenal problems. In my case, once my RT3 gets back to normal I will do this method with NDT only.
I agree...the ferritin has to be addressed, and I think the "cure" is both pretty easy and pretty swift. Red Cross is going to love you. LOL
I always advocate only changing one thing at a time if you want to have any chance of figuring out what did what.
Doctors have to get real...two beers a day isn't going to have any major impact on most people. A doctor asked me once how much I drank and I said I had a couple of glasses of wine. She said, "A week?" Give me a break... No, a day...she was aghast. I was aghast that she was aghast...LOL
I always advocate only changing one thing at a time if you want to have any chance of figuring out what did what.
Doctors have to get real...two beers a day isn't going to have any major impact on most people. A doctor asked me once how much I drank and I said I had a couple of glasses of wine. She said, "A week?" Give me a break... No, a day...she was aghast. I was aghast that she was aghast...LOL
"That would indicate to me that half life and "clearance" are two different things."
Good point and one I will discuss with my hematologist. I've addressed all the variables Red Star suggested except high ferritin at 1100. This one is only two weeks new to me. If ferritin is the cause of my symptoms, then let's get it reduced first and then restart my thyroid axis. That's all I advocate for.
It was suggested I see a hematologist in December 2010, but my VA PCP wanted me to stop drinking for six months before she would refer. 2 and 1/2 years have gone by and no progress. A simple ferritin test is well-ordered for cases of gout and hypothyroidism. Two beers a day wasn't the cause afterall!
Good point and one I will discuss with my hematologist. I've addressed all the variables Red Star suggested except high ferritin at 1100. This one is only two weeks new to me. If ferritin is the cause of my symptoms, then let's get it reduced first and then restart my thyroid axis. That's all I advocate for.
It was suggested I see a hematologist in December 2010, but my VA PCP wanted me to stop drinking for six months before she would refer. 2 and 1/2 years have gone by and no progress. A simple ferritin test is well-ordered for cases of gout and hypothyroidism. Two beers a day wasn't the cause afterall!
I just had my iron and b-12 done I am wondering if they may be low. No appetite and lost 6lbs since January. I am at 10 days on the lower t-4 and up 5mcg t-3. I am having fatigue and negative thinking which I don't like but is this because the t-4 is falling and hopefully the t-3 is rising?
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It is against MedHelp's terms of us to tell people what medications/dosage they should be on. You can suggest that they discuss different ideas with their doctor; however recommending specific med(s)/dosage(s) amounts to practicing medicine without a license.
Woody, I do not see any evidence that you have a problem converting and I do not believe that RT3 is giving problems. Your previous dose of 100 T4 plus 3.75 mcg T3 should not make you especially hyper or hypo. That is why I suggest you need to look for other problems.
I am curious to know what was the hyper symptom that you experienced?
I think that it would have been better for you to stay with 100 mcg of T4 because 88 is probably not going to be enough. I suggest 100 T4 plus 5 mcg T3/cytomel for 4 weeks and get new labs TSH, FT3 and FT4.
I am curious to know what was the hyper symptom that you experienced?
I think that it would have been better for you to stay with 100 mcg of T4 because 88 is probably not going to be enough. I suggest 100 T4 plus 5 mcg T3/cytomel for 4 weeks and get new labs TSH, FT3 and FT4.
Are either of you familar with Paul Robinsons book "Recovering with T3"?
Very informative read!
He also has a websit under the same name. Check it out!
Very informative read!
He also has a websit under the same name. Check it out!
You are right about inhibiting factors. All that you mentioned have to be addressed prior to starting a T3 only protocol...that is if you want it to be successful.
I also found that addressing my sex hormones and starting bioidentical replacement helped.
I also found that addressing my sex hormones and starting bioidentical replacement helped.
It can take upward of 12 weeks to actally clear your RT3 clogged receptors. It actually took me 15 weeks to clear on a T3 only protocol. The best forum to discuss this subject and post your lab ranges is yahoos RT3-T3 group and their sister group Natural Thyroid Adrenal group. The mods on both these sites are very well educated on this subject and will happily assist anyone needing real guidance.
You would be determining half life only for yourself, you understand. I've read, also, that half life of RT3 is anywhere from hours to a few days. However, I've never read that RT3 was likely to "clear" that fast, i.e. get out of the T3 receptors. Most T3-only programs for RT3 dominance suggest that T3-only therapy is expected to be necessary from 4-6 weeks and perhaps beyond. That would indicate to me that half life and "clearance" are two different things. What happens once RT3 docks at T3 receptor sites, i.e. does it then take on a different half life from serum RT3?
I don't know anything about the chemical composition of Roundup, but the liver has to process all those toxins out...competition just like amio???
Just curious how high your TPOab was, if you still have results. That was a long time ago, so it's quite possible that you had Hashi's at one time, your thyroid effectively "died", and your antibodies went into remission.
It sounds like your mother could have been simply undermedicated. If her FT3 and FT4 were low range, she was probably still hypo. 50 mcg is seldom a full replacement dose, so if she'd been taking it for decades, there's a good chance that she's lost further thyroid function along the way and was never treated properly.
Osteoporosis is usually associated with high levels of FT3. It's more of a problem with hyper than with hypo (except when overmedicated). What role might RT3 have played? Pure speculation on my part, but it might have actually protected your bones.
No one wants to be a guinea pig for the medical establishment. You have to advocate for yourself, even more so with more than one chronic condition. However, throwing caution completely to the wind may not net you the results you'd hoped. I hope your hematologist has some answers for you.
I don't know anything about the chemical composition of Roundup, but the liver has to process all those toxins out...competition just like amio???
Just curious how high your TPOab was, if you still have results. That was a long time ago, so it's quite possible that you had Hashi's at one time, your thyroid effectively "died", and your antibodies went into remission.
It sounds like your mother could have been simply undermedicated. If her FT3 and FT4 were low range, she was probably still hypo. 50 mcg is seldom a full replacement dose, so if she'd been taking it for decades, there's a good chance that she's lost further thyroid function along the way and was never treated properly.
Osteoporosis is usually associated with high levels of FT3. It's more of a problem with hyper than with hypo (except when overmedicated). What role might RT3 have played? Pure speculation on my part, but it might have actually protected your bones.
No one wants to be a guinea pig for the medical establishment. You have to advocate for yourself, even more so with more than one chronic condition. However, throwing caution completely to the wind may not net you the results you'd hoped. I hope your hematologist has some answers for you.
"Factors that inhibit the body's conversion of T4 to T3 are low levels of iodine, selenium, zinc, copper, vitamin B12, vitamin B6, vitamin A, and vitamin E; high levels of fluoride; high or low levels of serum ferritin; and a diet that is too low in calories. Other factors that interfere with the conversion of T4 to T3 are beta-blockers, birth-control pills, high levels of estrogen, lithium, lead, mercury, stress, cigarette smoking, pesticides, aging, diabetes, surgery, adrenal insufficiency, and human growth hormone deficiency"
- The Fat-Burning Bible: 28 Days of Foods, Supplements, and Workouts that Help by Mackie Shilstone
- The Fat-Burning Bible: 28 Days of Foods, Supplements, and Workouts that Help by Mackie Shilstone
I felt hypothyroid at 16.6. Grrr. By the time my FT4 hit 13 symptoms were extremely bad. I have promised my mother i will call an ambulance if i am that bad again. She mentioned CPR. Where is the phone lol.
"Tertroxin is available on the PBS, but it is an authority script which means that the doctor needs to state the following; “replacement therapy for hypothyroid patients who have documented resistance to thyroxine sodium”.
Ridiculous. I can see tertroxin isn't a best selling drug in Oz...if anyone is taking it at all. :P
"Tertroxin is available on the PBS, but it is an authority script which means that the doctor needs to state the following; “replacement therapy for hypothyroid patients who have documented resistance to thyroxine sodium”.
Ridiculous. I can see tertroxin isn't a best selling drug in Oz...if anyone is taking it at all. :P
"Do you plan to go on a therapeutic dose of T4 or overmedicate? Sounds scary, especially if some other condition in your body might be competing with RT3 for elimination."
It would be a gradual transition to no thyroid medication then labs, Followed by Rx of Synthroid then labs. If free T4 and Free T3 remain subclinical to hypo with rT3 building, I would return to T3 only with labs to determine half life.
I had some liver issues and my heart rate and blood pressure remain suppressed after significant exposure to Monsanto Roundup. ALT, AST, and other liver enzymes all mid on the WNL scale. No problems with my kidneys. Thyroid Peroxidase intermittently in the 70s then back to normal, thus the Hashi Dx. Hemotomacrosis is very new to me and I am pondering its role in my disorders.
I cannot locate my mother's labs at the moment. Her TSH and Total T4 were WNL, but her free T3 and free T4 were clinically low. T4 uptake was norrmal. I didn't know to have her rT3 tested until mine came in at 863 in April 2012. She was tired, losing muscle integrity, losing her hair, piling on the pounds, and fell several times. She had been on 50 mcg Synthroid for decades.
Tomorrow I receive a baseline bone density scan. If rT3 impedes normal metabolic process during stress and times of famine, what impact has it played on my bone replacement over the years. I shut my thyroid down about 8 months ago...so no rT3 possible. As I wrote, I am a moving target and not willing to be neglected or abused by physicians. I am not opposed to discussing issues with the hematologist on the 21st. I hope he is amenable to my intentions.
It would be a gradual transition to no thyroid medication then labs, Followed by Rx of Synthroid then labs. If free T4 and Free T3 remain subclinical to hypo with rT3 building, I would return to T3 only with labs to determine half life.
I had some liver issues and my heart rate and blood pressure remain suppressed after significant exposure to Monsanto Roundup. ALT, AST, and other liver enzymes all mid on the WNL scale. No problems with my kidneys. Thyroid Peroxidase intermittently in the 70s then back to normal, thus the Hashi Dx. Hemotomacrosis is very new to me and I am pondering its role in my disorders.
I cannot locate my mother's labs at the moment. Her TSH and Total T4 were WNL, but her free T3 and free T4 were clinically low. T4 uptake was norrmal. I didn't know to have her rT3 tested until mine came in at 863 in April 2012. She was tired, losing muscle integrity, losing her hair, piling on the pounds, and fell several times. She had been on 50 mcg Synthroid for decades.
Tomorrow I receive a baseline bone density scan. If rT3 impedes normal metabolic process during stress and times of famine, what impact has it played on my bone replacement over the years. I shut my thyroid down about 8 months ago...so no rT3 possible. As I wrote, I am a moving target and not willing to be neglected or abused by physicians. I am not opposed to discussing issues with the hematologist on the 21st. I hope he is amenable to my intentions.
I bet it's extensive.
Transport is a whole can of worms in itself, and it doesn't help that no one seems to have the least bit of a handle on it.
There have been a few people on the forum with THR (I have PRTH...pituitary only). They have to take massive doses of T3 (usually) and run their FT3 several times the upper limit of the range (although I'm sure degree of impairment varies) to not feel hypo. FT3 concentration has to be extremely high before the T3 can get into cells. If something can go wrong, it will???
How'd you feel at 16.6?
Transport is a whole can of worms in itself, and it doesn't help that no one seems to have the least bit of a handle on it.
There have been a few people on the forum with THR (I have PRTH...pituitary only). They have to take massive doses of T3 (usually) and run their FT3 several times the upper limit of the range (although I'm sure degree of impairment varies) to not feel hypo. FT3 concentration has to be extremely high before the T3 can get into cells. If something can go wrong, it will???
How'd you feel at 16.6?
My TSH labs have been a consistent 1.4 or 1.5 until a few years ago when Hashi's joined the party. I found one lab showing a TSH of 1.5 with FT4 of 16.6; that's the highest FT4 i've noted besides 25. I did read about thyroid resistance and found some interesting info...
"Reduced sensitivity to thyroid hormone (TH) in peripheral tissues can occur as defects in TH transport into the cell, intracellular TH metabolism, cytosolic mechanisms, TH entry into the nucleus, thyroxin receptors (TRs) and receptor binding, transcription and post-transcriptional mechanisms.
Current literature reveals an extensive list of mutations, drugs, toxins, metabolites and autoimmune antibodies that may impair TH action in the cell, but such impairment may not be picked up by assays of TH and TSH in blood plasma."
Oh the list is extensive. Nice to know. *rolls eyes*
"Reduced sensitivity to thyroid hormone (TH) in peripheral tissues can occur as defects in TH transport into the cell, intracellular TH metabolism, cytosolic mechanisms, TH entry into the nucleus, thyroxin receptors (TRs) and receptor binding, transcription and post-transcriptional mechanisms.
Current literature reveals an extensive list of mutations, drugs, toxins, metabolites and autoimmune antibodies that may impair TH action in the cell, but such impairment may not be picked up by assays of TH and TSH in blood plasma."
Oh the list is extensive. Nice to know. *rolls eyes*
The price would be the silver lining...
Well, I do have to say that the first set of labs on T4 doesn't really indicate a conversion issue. You certainly weren't lacking FT3. So, I'm not surprised that Armour didn't improve things. I'm very surprised your labs were over the top like that on just 50 mcg.
The labs on Armour look pretty good. FT4 is a little below midpoint, but not unusual for someone on desiccated. FT3 is right up there at 77% of range. Looks pretty perfect, actually.
Have you ever been at a really good level on T4? Perhaps a little higher than the usual targets, but not over the top?
Well, I do have to say that the first set of labs on T4 doesn't really indicate a conversion issue. You certainly weren't lacking FT3. So, I'm not surprised that Armour didn't improve things. I'm very surprised your labs were over the top like that on just 50 mcg.
The labs on Armour look pretty good. FT4 is a little below midpoint, but not unusual for someone on desiccated. FT3 is right up there at 77% of range. Looks pretty perfect, actually.
Have you ever been at a really good level on T4? Perhaps a little higher than the usual targets, but not over the top?
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