Methadone for 15 years and Why a Clinic would leave it up to the Addict?

[angie]

I have someone very dear to me that has been on Methadone for 15 years to keep clean from heroin. My thoughts is that it just helped prolong her situation and helping her not reach a bottom. There are even some states that will give it to her free. Florida however does not give it free. It is pretty costly. Yes, I have read all about how it keeps them off the streets. They do not offer any real counseling or really try to help her get off this stuff. Why would a methadone clinic keep someone on the program for so long? I know several people within the program that has been on it for 10+ years. Why would a program leave it up to a drug addict to reduce their dose or get off the program? There was another question posted about Hepatitis C and the effects of Methadone. I would like to just say that the medication that could help the Hepatitis C is blocked due to the use of Methadone. Only quoting the Doctors. Yes, I probably sound Angry. 90% of the time I am not. I attend Alanon and with the help of a greater power than my self I keep the focus on me, Take it One day at a time, Letting go and Letting God.

Thank you for listening to my questions and my thoughts.

[tom to Dan]

I'm looking forwad to your response to this one. Hepatitis C? What's that all about?

[Yep]

People are trading one addiction for another. You CAN get high off of Methadone...if your tolerance has gone down. I find it funny that it's okay to pay through the nose financially and socialy speaking for methadone but other opiates are a no-no. Methadone IS BIG BUSINESS. It's a business unto itself. In the end, you are doing nothing but "maintaining" (i.e. "maintenance" MMT) an ongoing HABIT. Either you are a practicing addict or you are not. Being on methadone does NOT put you in the "non-practicing" bracket. You're still using. Period. You're never "over" addiction, but continuing to take a drug very similar to the one you were addicted to is a surefire way to relapse and/or stay in the "addicts" frame of mind. You're still going to the "clinic", still going to see a "doctor", still taking "pills." What's the difference? Yes it helps the "gutter junky" types as well as the "suit and tie junkys." But since most of us aren't on either end of that spectrum - i.e. we're NOT suicidal, we're not scoring off the street corner - we're "maintenance" prescription pill users, getting them from M.D.'s and clinics when we run out etc. Much like a Methadone patient...mmmmmmmmm. No difference really. You're still a SLAVE. You're not off drugs until you're OFF drugs. Period.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I agree pretty much with everything in your post about MMT.  I would like a little more education about MMT and Hep C.  I went through the combo treatment two years ago and the only stipualtion was that I refrain from all alcohol because it nullifies the effect of the Interferon and Ribivirin.  At that time I was prescibed Vicodin for pain but limited to 20 mg hydrocodone and 1300 mg Tylenol per day.  I thought that the opiods had little effect on the liver.  Thanks!

[barbara to pain and lortab]

I agree as well. I was a hard core alcoholic and when I detoxed and after a year long battle, managed to quit the booze, I am now almost eight months sober with no desire for it but I am now addicted to Klonopin in its place.

Klonopin was initially for the withdrawal, then the seizures and combination of severe anxiety disorder. I was told the Klonopin i much safer than being on alcohol and even though it is an addiction, it is like other sick people who need drugs everyday to stay alive such as diabetics, heart patients and so on.

I had a mitral valve prolapse and bad arrythmia numerous pvc's per minute before the Klonopin and now it is miraculously cured as well. So the Klonopin has really done alot for me and I am not even tempted to drink at all, not even when I get really stressed or angry so the detox worked in that regard, but yes I am still addicted now to the Klonopin. I would hate to try an detox off of it. I hear it is much worse than alcohol withdrawal and I had hell with that.

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Hi Barbara,
Way to go on Sobriety! I wanted to ask you what is Klonopin?  Is it like Xanax? How did you become addicted?  Is it taken like Xanax?  I mean do you feel really relaxed.  If it has helped you like you have said why do you think that you are addicted?  I was just curious.  Again Great Job on your eight months sober that is so wonderful!
Sincerely,
Marcie.

[Mariah to Tom]

Hey!  That's funny you saying something about that...  I had already thought about naming him after you & his daddy of course.  And with your permission, I'm going to name him Ryan Thomas.  Even though I have never met you or have never seen your face, I know your heart & I would be more than pleased if my baby boy turns out just like you.  Thank you for everything, my friend.
Love You,
Mariah  :)

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

When are you due? We could have a CYBER BABY Shower for you!  You should register with Babys R Us or something like that! I think that is a great idea!  Just like me being a CYBER God Parent!  I am so glad you are doing so good! Pat the Baby Hello!

Sincerely,
Marcie.

[tom to Mariah]

I don't know what to say ... you humble me. love to you too, Mariah. God bless you and little Ryan Thomas.

[Gloria]

To Barbara
Congrats on eight months of sobriety. I would like to make some critical points about some of your claims and dispel whatever belief you have that you are "now addicted to Klonopin."  Current research regarding anxiety/panic disorders has revealed that there is almost 90% correlation between panic disorders and mitral valve prolapse.  Research has yet to define what triggers the panic component, but it is currently believed that the tachyarrhythmias (extremely fast heartbeats and irregular heartbeats) are the culprit.  Klonopin is the drug of choice to correct this illness, along with beta-blockers (Tenormin, Inderal).  So Barbara, your Klonopin is as important to your continued living as Insulin is to a diabetic.  Yes, Klonopin is a benzodiazepine and has the potential to be addictive.  In your case, I would venture a guess that your alcohol dependence was your attempt to self-medicate an underlying panic/anxiety disorder, which was triggered by a physiologic problem (Mitral Valve Prolapse).  Because of your past history, you are wise to be cautious about taking your medication only as prescribed, but I doubt that is an issue with you.  Keep up the good work and try to see your Klonopin as life-sustaining medication--not an addiction.  You do not need to "detox" from it, only take it as prescribed.  Best wishes for continued sobriety.

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Hi Gloria,
I just wanted to say that you gave a GREAT response to Barbara.  I know that she will appreciate that information.  That is all I wanted to say. Terrific Post.

Sincerely,
Marcie.

[Frankinscense]

More myths based on non scientific non facts. Methadone boosts the immune system. It does this stabalising an off balance immmune system that has been compromised by the abuse of short acting opiates. I have studied various research findings and never has anyone been so wrong than the above poster. Methadone/LAAM helps hep c or hiv/aids addicts recover or live better lives by keeping them off of short acting opiates. I too believe in many ways in twelve step recoveries. This method helps many recover who have addictions that are not complicated by years of abuse and many incarcerations. When a person is facing lives that are so unhealthy and out of order. Methadone/Laam help these people get their lives back together so they can find employment and become productive citizen.
                                                                
Methadone/LAAM has helped people from all walks of life. (doctors,lawyers,pharmacists,etc.) The press usually only print negative articles in regards to this treatment. It does not print all the success stories that have come about due to these therapies. I must point out that opiate agonist therapies are not for every opiate addict. It is for addicts that have relapsed continually despite various treatment and twelve step programs.
I am not trying to convince anyone to stop trying abstinence. These methods of treatment help many addicts keep this horrible disease in remission. But when these addicts after several attempts at abstinence contiually fail, methadone/LAAM offers another tool to help them stay away from short acting opiates. Short acting opiates if used continually over long periods of time will have negative effects to the immune system and all the neurohormones (endorphins,dopamine,serotonin,norepinephrine,etc.)
Methadone BLOCKS no medicine that helps HEP C patients that I am aware of. Methadone has absolutely no ill effects on vital organs throughout the body if taken at a proper dose. Methadone has been researched for 40-50 years and no research scientist can find anything negative about this drug in regards to the health of the  user. Methadone is a very safe drug with no toxic effects if used properly. It is a medicine with many similarities to other maintenace meds such as insulin and blood pressure medicines. If anyone cares to find holes in what I type.. Do some research and try to prove me wrong. I am a methadone patient and will stay on methadone until some other treatment comes along that is superior  to methadone.  I wish that i could  continue this discussion,but I have to take care of my responsibilities and go to work. My Peace I Give You, My Peace I Leave You,
Dan..
ps. I had no time to proof read this, so xcuse any errors! Dan

[tom to Dan]

thanks for the clarification. Knew you'd have the skinny.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

Hi Marcie, thanks for the encouragement. The Klonopin is just like xanax only it is the main benzodiazapine used to control partial seizures. It is an anti-convulsant which the benzo group is and why they are used in alcohol withdrawal.

I have a partial seizure disorder and anxiety disorder so this medication has been a life saver for me at this time in my life. A lot of weird things have gone on this past year and I really need a calmer downer!

[Patrice]

Hi Dan

I have met some great people on here, like JB and a few others.  I am a member of NA, and as I have said before, I was clean for 12 years, and relapsed in 1996.  Ever since then, I have been on one substance or another.  I know that I need my antidepreesent to lead a normal life, and one sleeping pill for a chronic sleep disorder.  I have no problem with taking my doxepin and restoril as directed, and my support group knows this.  My problem is, I CANT get off of heroin!!!  I shot dope for many years, and started back up in August.  I tried the buperphine/nalxon treatment which made me too sick and I walked off.  I managed to take 2 vicodins a day to keep from getting sick, but 5 days later the withdrawls hit, and I started the dope again.  I have tried taking methadone pills (I bought them from someone) and I ODed on them.  I really need help here.  I am afraid to tell my hubby I am back on stuff, adn dont know wht to do!!  Is there a reason I cant tolerate methadone?  I need to add that I was also taking other drugs with it.  Do you think LAAM would or could work for me?  I need o quit for my own self esteem and recovery and am real scared right now.  Can you give me some advice?  Please E mail me privatly if you do answer.  I am tking 1/2 gram a day, and my arms ache from the dope.  I cant fix because I have no veins, so I am skin popping.  I am afraid to go cold turkey, because I am 46 years old, and I just cant do it anymore.  All of the people I know on methadone never quit drugs, is there hope for me?  I so want to be clean in recovery agian!!  I want to be able to love me again, and I am digging myself in more and more each day.  Can I really go on MM and stay clean after that one day at a time?  

Your sister in recovery

Patrice

PS my addy is ***@****

[Frankinscense]

Methadone and Laam do work if taken properly without using drugs in conbination. You have to get out and lose this lifestyle. You never will succed having these so called friends around. These people that continue to use ARE NOT your friends you have to relise this and work a NA program along with LAAM/methadone maintenance. Patrice make up you mind girl! Its your life at stake here> GET AWAY FROM THESE PEOPLE THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS!!! Make some new friends and attend NA meetings 2-3 times a day if necessary and get a sponser. That should be your only friend for a while. Make the commtment and STAY focused. Methadone or LAAM will work but you have to the things I said, they are essential to your recovery. Also use a clinic that provides good counseling.
You will not succeed if you continue this lifestyle you are living! Best to you! BE SPIRITUAL!
Danny..

[Patrice]

Hi dan

Thank you for your reply.  I do go to my NA meetings,in fact I went to my comitment meeting tonight.  I have a sponser, but havent been using her lately.  I really appreciate your kindness to me!!!  I know these people I hang out with are using, but I rationalize by saying I have known them since 1979.  I will go to a clinic tomorrow.  In fact my sponser works at the one I am thinking about going to, and I know I will need counseling too! I also have slinical depression.  Would I also have to quit taking my doxepan while I am on LAAM?  The last thing I need is to be depressed or I should say more depressed than I am now... I hate my diease and love it at the same time, because without it, I wouldnt have a program to work.  I bought my NA basic text, my how it works and why and my NA workbook.  I know I have to get to work, if I want to live!!!  I want so despertly to quit.  Like they say, there is nothing worse than a head full of NA and a body full of drugs.  I have tried going to NA 3-4 times a day, and I know it helps, but I have to listen to the message.  In fact when I relapsed I was going morning noon and night!!!  Right now I am attending at least 6 meetings a week. (I take Fridays off)  I know what I have to do to be in recovery, its just like I have to be wiling.  I know what to do, I just dont do it.  And also I learned I cant save my friends, I can only save mysellf. Again Dan, thank you for being so kind!!!   I need to ask, but dont answerr if you dont want to.  Are you a counseler?

Your sister in recovery

Patrice

[Frankinscense]

You can take antidepressants while on LAAM. You must commit yourself to your recovery! Stop rationalising! patrice,you must do what is necesary to accomplish your goals. Be strong. You can do it!
Dan

[Patrice]

Thanks for letting me know that I can take my doxipan on LAAM.  Can I also take my restoril 30mg that is prescribed by my doctor? I am terrified of not slepping.  I know I am a good rationalizer, you picked up on it QUICK!  I have made the decision to go on LAAM or just the regular methadone, I have o talk to a counselor therre first.  Thanks for yourr relpy, you are the greatest!!

Take care

Patrice

[Frankinscense]

Most prescription drugs can be taken while on methadone or LAAM. With the exception of short acting opiates.(vicodin,lortab,oxycodone etc.) Taking these drugs while on methadone will only compromise your recovery.
                                                                  Restoril also, with the permission of your counselor be taken.Patrice,When are you going to start your treatment? Why are you waiting? Good Luck! Be Spiritual!       Dan..

[tom to Patrice]

while you're reading all the na pubs, don't forget to take a look at the big book of AA, the one that represents the beginning of the movement. Even though it's the stories of "a bunch of drunks" there's something special and very spiritual about the original, especially the Bill W and Dr Bob stuff. Good reading.

[Patrice]

Hi Dan

I am going on Monday to give a urine test and then start, I was procratsinating saying I will go when I dope runs out, but now I know the dope will never run out, and if I want to live, I must do it now!!!  Thank you for pulling my covers, Dan, I would never do it without people like you pushing me.  I will let you know what happens.  You said with my counselers permission I can take my restoril, will I also be able to take my antidepressant, it doxipen  75mg, one pill a day.  Thanks again Dan, and have a great weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take care

Patrice

[Patrice]

I wa just reading back, and noticed that you have alreaddy answered all of the questions I had before.  I am an addict that just sees what she wants to see, I read were I said I was going to the clinic, before, but this time, it IS gonna happen!!!  My husband is going to make sure of it, so even if I go kicking and screming all of the way, I am going!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Thanks again for pulling my covers and caring about me as on addict to another.  You are the greatest!!!!!  And agin, I will keep you up on my progress

Take Care

Patrice

[Patrice]

Hi Tom

Believe me, I know without AA there would be no NA today, I have read the Big Book and know it is a wonderful book, very spirtual, my only problem with it, is it need to (IMHO) to be updated.  It is a little too relious for me, and thats just for me, not anyone else.  And there are stories in there about addicts hence "Belle of the ball" and "Doctor alcoholic addict" Thank you for reminding me, I will take it out and read it tonight.  Have a great weekend!!!

Take Care

Patrice

[Kristina To Patrice]

I have made a list of medication that I know Patrice is currently
taking or abusing
Herion   , hydrocodone ,xanax ,restoril  ,  doxipan soma  .
I'm  sure there is more  but this just the  short list. Patrice?  Why  do you bother coming to these boards at all?
You  spend alot of time  lying about all the **** you take.
Now I read tonight you want methodone. Your right,  you'll be dead soon,  for sure... she doesn't want help people  she wants permission to use these drugs . I'm  sick  of it personally.Sick and tired of all your pathedic attempts to get our sympathy.
If anyone here give Patrice advice... then tell her to stop lying to you  first,  then maybe real help will follow.  I know addicts lie about everything, and I  sound like I'm attacking
Patrice, fact is  she is a child in a 46 yr old  body. A  child that would not know the truth if it slammed her in the face with a hammer.All of you  do yourself a favor  and ignore this unstable woman. signed .. Angel of message  boards