Cold turkey, tapering, methadone, suboxone

[worried878]

Just curios....after reading as of late..the past few months to be exact...i see more and more people resorting to suboxone/subutex to get clean...wondering?...how many had success with CT?  tapering down and then quitting their DOC?   SUB and now off of sub?  methadone and now off of methadone?  real stories from those who have made the 30 day clean mark from all narcotics and how u got clean...how u felt and advice u would pass on?  the toughest time/like the first week/first day etc?  what u would do different if u had to do it all over again...?  

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

The people going to sub / meth so fast are still after the quick fix - they do not realize until its too late that those two drugs in particular (sub / methadone) are worse to kick than a solid heroin habit... typical addict behavior - instant gratification... life doesnt work that way. And I was one of them....

[worried878]

sounds so easy tho..."get clean with no wds"...wishing life was so easy...."majic pill solves everything"  "Take ths pill and ur addiction is over"   I wish addiction was this simple...just not so...

[Kova]

i am not quite in the clear yet, but methadone was my DOC for years and i have gone 4 days short of 1 month now with the aid of small amounts of Sub here and there.  i took 2-4mgs a few days during the first 2 weeks.  helped me through the most painful parts.  i can't believe how long this detox is taking, though, because today i feel pretty bad.  if i took 4mgs of Sub it would keep my WDs at bay for 3 whole days!  this is why i think doctors way overpresribe it.  so i found it useful and i did not become addicted to it. although it did give me migraines and mood swings.

Kova

[dominosarah]

The thing i have noticed anymore is we no longer give the advice of eating bananas, toast or any type of bland food or Immodium for wd's.  More and more are going on sub and everything is wonderful.  It also seems that stuff is on the streets now and people are taking that without a doctors supervision.  Give me ct anyday.  My one regret is i didnt do this sooner.  Was scared of the wd's.  Now i know better.

My one question is what is going to happen after sub is stopped?  Then what.     sara

[Coolio Hernendez]

I quit the opiates like 24 or 25 days ago then jumped on subutex 2 mg's twice a day......then got down to 1 mg a day...then tryed to miss a day here or there.  Now i havent had a sub sience Friday morning and it is Monday morning.....I am sweating a little but slept fine and feel pretty good....

[flmagi]

I'm still on Sub. It was not an easy decision to go on the Sub and no, I'm not thrilled that I'm still on it. I wasn't looking for a quick fix or instant gratification, I was looking for not dying, or being arrested or losing my home, car accident etc. I was constantly relapsing and my pain pill doses would get higher and higher, 2 very close accidents while high, wasn't paying bills with the little money I had etc. My life and my sisters have been in turmoil the last few years and the Sub has probably saved our lives. I fully understand that I will probably deal with the withdrawals when the time comes to get off the Sub. No doubt. But one thing at a time. Trying to keep our heads above water and deal with things. Right now I'm tapering off the Cymbalta. One thing at a time.
So this post is a sub basher in disguise. lol  Thats ok. I'm happy for those of you who have been in the exact same shoes as all the low life Sub users but have risen above us with your extreme foresight, strength and intelligence. I understand, you would rather see us dead than use Sub.  Whatever trips your trigger.

[allaboutmary]

I chose sub and have no regrets. I went cold turkey many times and made it months clean only to relapse. I was becoming suicidal from pain and my addiction.   It's not for everyone, but in my case it saved my life.
I hear all the time that addiction is a disease. I'm treating my disease.  No doubt I would love to be drug free, but until I can get rid of some of this pain, I will take my crumb of sub every morning. If I didn't I would not be able to work. I would lose everything. It was not an easy way out, I realize that I have traded one drug for another, but this drug has stopped all of my dangerous behaviour.....buying on the street, taking lethal doses, spending money I don't have etc..

Bottom line is.......if you can get clean without the help of Suboxone, more power to you ! I respect that !   I could not, so call me weak, or anything else. I'm doing the best I can for now.

[122 Tactical Fighter Group]

Very strong feelings seem to come up with this topic - I dont recall anyone bashing anything nor anyone. I know that worried says to do what it takes for you. I feel the same way. If thats what it takes for you - do it. But people need to know this isnt an easy solution to a complicated issue. There are many problems asssociated with both meth and sub.....and there are legions of problems with addiction. It isnt a step to take without being totally informed. And I have done both methadone and sub. This time I c/t'd it and I would not try another way again myself.

[dominosarah]

My concern is for the people getting it on the street, not with the ones that are taking it under a docs supervision.  I dont know that much about sub(obviously) so i do have these questions.  How much is a crumb???  Is this something you have to take everyday?  In no way am i thinking anyone is a loser or weak.  We all have to do what we need to stay alive.  Please if you would could you just explain this better to me.  Where i live it isnt available that i know of.      sara

[allaboutmary]

I'm guessing my crumb is 1/2 mg or less. I do take it everyday along with 600 mg of ibprophen. That gets me through about 4 hours of work then it's home with heat and ice packs the rest of the day. Like Eagle said people just need to educate themselves on sub before taking it.  I think the cost of going to the Sub doctor can be outrageous and thats part of why people take it without a doctors care and off the streets..

[kim715]

I have the same problem as sara.Lately we are seeing a lot of people here who are not getting it from a doctor,but rather off the street.It's these people that concern me,and it's not because it's sub that it bothers me,it's the continued addictive behavior.Those who are calling a 'friend' to get the sub so that they don't get sick are doing .in my opinion,the same thing I used to do when I was taking the pills and calling around to get more so that I wouldn't have to suffer through w/ds.We all know that it takes total commitment to get clean,I question these peoples total commitment....and NO it is not my place to judge someones elses recovery,but I seriously don't understand the difference.We would NEVER tell someone whos DOC was vicodin that it's ok to call a 'friend' for some percs to help ease the w/ds.For those of you that see a doctor and follow the guidelines and use the sub as prescribed by a medical professional,that I understand and I don't consider you weak.I made the horrible mistake of going the methadone route because I had failed so many times in trying to get clean from the pills.Unfortunately that was a HUGE mistake and landed me in a much worse position,but what I'm trying to say by this is that I understand attempting and failing so many times that you need to find another avenue.So not for the people that are prescribed it but for those who are getting it from someone else,obtaining it illegally,still calling around for pills.I don't feel that just because it's sub that those people should get a pass or that they're behavior should be condoned or overlooked here.That to me is still continuing on addictive behavior.

[TysonRed]

The fact is we are here to get clean, whatever route a particular person chooses to get there is irrelevant in the end if you get clean. One persons bad experience could be the others cure. I dont agree with methadone, although it helped me kick some bad habits, but did in return cause one of its own. There is no right and wrong when it comes to an exact way of getting clean, only choices on how and when you get there. There are circumstances that people cant always go CT or taper and they need a replacment therapy. I know alot of people who have used sub and are now clean, yes there is bad withdrawls and many look back and say man I should have just tapered, but the fact is they are clean, just had to endure some bad w/ds. When people are dealing with their drug of choice its harder to get your mind to where your mission is getting clean. Its far to easy to have bad days and abuse the drugs. Lets not judge people in how they get clean, that is just irresponsible, allow them their own choice and chance at getting to sobriety with whatever means nescessary. Peace and good luck to all of you with whatever path you choose in order to get your life back. Dont let others opinions and judgements affect the choices you have or are thinking about making. Best wishes to all!

[worried878]

the post was not meant to bash anyone...just to find out how the different methods worked for different people....opinions on what u would do if u could go back and do it over again...so others lurking can see the pros and cons of each way of quitting and choose...to know what to expect from CT for instance from 200 mg oxy habit, or what to expect if they tapered down and quit...how people did with tapering off of sub or methadone...how they felt and how long it took to feel good again..many have tried a few of the above..i had before i quit..i tapered at the end in 10 days/which is really not a taper but was waiting for time off work to quit, and it was 4 days of feeling flu-like with runs being the worst...i was at 80-100 mg of hydro for 4 years....i felt good for a week or so after that and went to work day 5..then the fatigue and depression started rolling in...it was 2-3 months before that lifted..and that was with following the amino acid and vitamin protocol to a T, as I had not until I just could not kick the fatigue...and exercsie..and meetings

[avisg]

I whole heartily agree with both Sarah and Kim.I don't have an issue with people using sub as a tool towards recovery. I wish sub doctor would make recovery care mandatory to continue on the sub .
Changing addictive behaviors are so important .

Kim I totally agree buy sub off the street is addictive behavior not only that then you are not getting any support when it comes to dosages and you don't have anyone to turn to if there is an issue.I really did not see anything on the thread that was bashing sub.

[liscamdave]

I also agree with kim and sara. You really should not endure a sub treatment without a dr.s supervision. And I don't think anyone was bashing anyone. As most of you said, there is no right/wrong way to get off opiates. If there were, we would all be following that protocol. Everyone is different and everyone's method to kick their habits is different. What worked for me may not work for you and vice versa. So tell someone what they should do is wrong. We can only speak from our own experiences. I don't think sub is pushed upon anyone. I think it is suggested as a possibility. I learned of sub about a year before I came here, and surprise surprise..I was getting it off the street. And when I first tried to stop, the w.d was fierce. And I had no clue why. It needs to be taken properly.  

[lovemypillhead]

I AM IN NO WAY SAYING TO GET DRUGS OFF THE STREET   --  OR RATHER SUBOXONE....BUT, THEY MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO GET SUB ANY OTHER WAY FOR SOME PEOPLE......

WHERE I LIVE, THE CHEAPEST I FOUND IT WAS $500 AND THE MOST EXPENSIVE WAS $1,500............NOT INLCUDING DRUG TEST AND THE PILLS...WHICH ARE EXPENSIVE..............NOW, IF U HAVE INSURANCE THEN NEVERMIND...ITS COOL.  BUT ALOT OF PEOPLE ARE EITHER UNEMPLOYED OR INDEPENDENT SUBCONTRACTORS AND DO NOT HAVE HEALTH CARE.....

THE ARGUEMENT, OF COURSE, IS WELL--IF U HAVE THE MONEY FOR YOUR DOC LIKE OXYS THEN U *COULD* SAVE THAT MONEY AND USE IT FOR TREATMENT....AND IN A PERFECT WORLD WITH NO DITHDRAWL, THAT IS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN.....IN MY BOYFRIENDS CASE, IT IS SAD BECAUSE HE DOESNT WORK SO HE CAN STAY HOME AND TAKE CARE OF OUR BABY..........THEREFORE, NO INSURANCE.................HE WANTS OFF PILLS IN THE WORST WAY AND WOULD DO ANYTHING TO GET HELP.....BUT WE DONT HAVE THE MONEY.  NOT TO MENTION, WHEN WE DO AND HE IS IN WD, HE ISNT LIKE"  AWE, WELL YEAH THIS IS HORRIBLE AND ***** AND I CANT STOP THROWING UP AND IM HOT AND COLD NAD MY BODY HURTS AND I JUST WANNA DIE AND OH, MY CONTACT JUST CALLED ME WITH A BUNCH OF OXY'S  BUT U KNOW....IM GONNA HOLD OUT FOR SUB FOR ANOTHER 8 WEEKS SO WE CAN SAVE UP THE MONEY......"   IF HE HAD THAT TYPE OF WILLPOWER AND DISCIPLINE, I DO NOT THINK ADDICTION WOULD HAVE EVER COME ABOUT.

IN THE MEANTIME, THERE IS THE SUB ASSISTANCE PROGRAM....OK, COOL.  UM, NO.  BECAUSE THE DOC CAN ONLY HAVE A WHOPPING 2 PATIENTS PER YR ON IT...........OR 3 IF HE TREATS MORE THAN 60 PEOPLE............SO BEST CASE, 3 PEOPLE................SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHERE TO FIND A DOCTOR WHO HAS AN OPENING IN MY COUNTY AND CITY WHERE I LIVE.  PLEASE. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE AND WOULD LOVE TO BE PROVEN WRONG.

I AM NOT NOT NOT NOT SAYING THAT ALL DRUG ADDICTS ARE POOR WITH NO HEALTH INSURANCE............OF COURSE NOT.  SO NOBODY SEND ME A HATE MESSAGE TRYING TO PUT ME IN MY PLACE OR "REPORT" ME.......BUT, STATISTICS SHOW THAT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE, MEN AND WOMEN, WHO ARE ADDICTED TO DRUGS DO NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE.....AS MANY OF U KNOW, U LOOSE ALOT WITH AN ADDICITON---ONE OF THOSE THINGS BEING A JOB.......SO, AROUND HERE THERE ARE NO OPENINGS FOR SUCH HELP.

SO---MY BOYFRIEND HAS 3 OPTIONS................

***********WE COULD GET MARRIED SO HE HAS INSURANCE************

***********HE CAN BUY SUBOXONE OFF THE STREET TO TRY AND HELP HIM*******

**********HE CAN BUY SOME OXY'S UNTIL ONE OF THE ABOVE 2 OPTIONS BECOMES POSSIBLE****************

I KNOW THAT SOUNDS TERRIBLE BUT IT IS THE FACTS.

AND AGAIN THE SAD THING IS HE'D LOVE TO BE DRUG FREE. WOULD LOVE IT. MY BOYFRIEND WILL NEVER TAPER.  HE WILL NEVER DO COLD TURKEY.  HE HAS TRIED BOTH MANY TIMES WITH NO LUCK.

SO I HATE TO SAY IT, BUT I FEEL LIKE SOME PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO CONTINUE THEIR ADDICTIVE WAYS.......SO THEY DONT GET SICK.

[lovemypillhead]

PS: IM NOT "YELLING" WITH CAPS ON EVEN THO THAT IS ODD WHOMEVER DECIDED THAT IS WHAT IT MEANT.

IM AT WORK AND HAVE TO USE CAPS IN MY WORK SCREEN...IT IS TOO HARD TO TURN IT OFF THEN ON THEN OFF THEN ON......

I PRETTY MUCH ALWAYS TYPE WITH CAPS!

[worried878]

LOL....caps are hard on the eyes i guess...but it is good u take time at work to post...i cant because someone is always noising around when i am on the computer and others use my computer...detoxing and hoding down a job can be a challenge..a real big challenge..keep moving forward

[dominosarah]

Thank you for explaining my questions.      sara

[usarmymedic1]

221 days clean used quick 8 day tapper of methadone and colonidine anti depressents and a sleep aid I started my tapper of meth with 30 mg droped 5 mg daily but statyed at 15 mg 2 days and 10 mg 2 days due to increase in vitals and S/S of W/D. 90 days out off the other meds the only thing I take now is naprosin (NSAID) for pain and do my exercises. I went to a Detox center at the VA to get help with all of this.

[trying2helpU]

1st post in this forum - I just found this place.
I'm currently on suboxone (Canada) and taking 16mg a day (2 x 8mg pills).  I went for my "procedure" on Sept. 17 2008.  I was taking 800-960mg of oxycontin a day (10-12 80mg pills a day) - obviously i did not start on that dose - it all started 5 years ago when perc's got boring and my friend found this pink, 20mg oxycontin pill.  then like many of you, after years of abuse, the amount i had to take to feel normal/good increased exponentially.
over the past 5 years i tried to quit (i) cold-turkey, (ii) taper method (tried taper numerous times), (iii) at a government funded rehab clinic (the donwood centre), (iv) AAROD (anastethia assisted rapid opiate detoxification) using a naltrexone implant (naltrexone pellet) and finally (v) the suboxone procedure.  the last 2 methods, AAROD and suboxone were costly (AAROD around $6,000 and suboxone around $3,000 plus medication (suboxone) every week.  but suboxone has worked miracles so far.  i understand that i have to eventually get off suboxone and that is going to be a struggle in itself, but my life would not have continued had i stayed on oxy's.
i was told by my doctor that i should not do any oxy's at least 12 hours before the suboxone procedure - if you are on a very low dose than there is an out-patient suboxone program available, but if you're dose is anything above 160mg per day (2 x 80mg oxycontin), you have to do in-patient program.  i will be honest and say the night in the clinic was the worse night of my life.  i don't remember all of it, but the parts i do remember i want to forget about.  my doctor says that it was due to the fact that i was on a high dose of oxy so there were going to be some problems, BUT im pretty sure he made a mistake and gave me the suboxone too early (you are suppose to take your INITIAL dose when withdrawl symptoms are clearly evident ie. tremors, very watery eyes, etc) and because i was dosed too early it FORCED my body to go into withdrawl which was absolute hell.  noticing he made a mistake because i was going insane now (about 30min to 1 hour after being dosed), my doctor had the nurse inject me in the butt with 4 vials of valium (2 x 2 vials, 1 in each butt cheek) because of the fact that i was bouncing off the walls and literally ready to jump out the window because i DID NOT want to go through with the procedure.  eventually the valium kicked in and finally put me out (but not before i went throught a period of around 20minutes of full-out hallucinations).  i woke up a few hours later and did not feel any pain anymore - the valium had totally calmed me down and i'm guessing the suboxone was starting to do it's thing so everything changed for the better.  and for the rest of the time in the clinic everything just got better.
i was released 36 hours after being admitted and was taken staight to a hotel by a friend.  the 1st night in the hotel was tough because it was hard to sleep, yet i was very tired.  but on the 2nd night i smoked a little bit of marijuana (about 0.3mg i'd guess) and that made me feel great and put me to bed.
i was intially on a dose of 20mg for suboxone (2.5 x 8mg tablets) but have now got it down to 16mg.  it costs around $90 per week now (again, in Canada and without a drug plan) and i have to go 2 times a week to the pharmacy so they can "WITNESS" me taking my dose (and then they give me my "CARRY" which i use until i come back for my next witness).
suboxone has been great, in the fact that i don't crave opiates at all, let alone oxycontin.  i am totally happy smoking marijuana (about a gram a day max) at night and being "drug-free" during the days.   ***** BUT, AFTER THE AAROD PROGRAM I WAS CLEAN FOR 6 MONTHS WITHOUT A WORRY IN THE WORLD - THEN IT ALL CAME CRASHING DOWN IN A SPAN OF 2 HOURS ONE DAY AND I HOOKED ON OXYCONTIN AGAIN - SO I'M NOT SAYING I'M DONE AND IN THE CLEAR YET... i'm just commenting that so far i'm all good and everything seems A-OK.  i'm in the process of finding a psychiatrist/psychologist to help me with the mental part of addiction - as most of you know, we usually put all our efforts into fighting the physical addiction, which helps us temporarily get off a drug - but if the mental addiction is not addressed, there is a good chance that a relapse will occur (and this is 100% true regarding my history of drug abuse).
sorry, i have to go now and will have to complete this later on.

I HOPE SOMEONE WILL BENEFIT FROM MY EXPERIENCE AND THAT IS THE REASON I AM POSTING TODAY.  I UNDERSTAND THE HELL THAT COMES WITH A HEAVY OPIATE ADDICTION (OR EVEN A LOW OPIATE ADDICITON FOR THAT MATTER) - IT'S NOT FUN BUT I PROMISE YOU THERE IS LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL.  I KNOW THAT'S A GAY LINE, BUT IT'S TRUE.  I REMEMBER SEARCHING THE NET FOR ANSWERS/CLUES THE WEEK BEFORE I WAS GOING TO GO IN FOR THE SUBOXONE TREATMENT, AND I WOULD LAUGH AT THE PEOPLE WRITING STUFF LIKE "... LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL." BUT GUYS, IT'S TRUE.  the road ahead is not easy, the choices are going to be difficult, but if you are surrounded by the right people and you find the right doctor(s), you will beat your addiction.

[rick412]

i come from 60 mgs of methadone down to 15 . i started coming down 5 mgs a week. then 3mgs. then 2mgs. when i got to 15 i felt like **** all the time so i walked off. i got a room for a week . locked the door and entered hell. first 3 days not 2 bad. days 4-12 suxed. then everyday got better. i'm at day 50 and i really feel good.i do go to meetings.and i am so glad i did it i have some control of my life again.i've been on every pill you can think of. and loved the dope. but nothing is as bad as done. the paws seems like it will never end. but for the most part it has.my family like's me better. lol . and i have more money. i really like helping other's

[HaveFaith129]

Congrats rick412 - I am dreaming of day 50! Started at 20mg July 29th went up to 65mg then Detoxed from  65mg to 1 mg - today is day 3 clean. I am feeling ok... just have terrible RLS = Clonidine has helped a ton for the anxiety. I have been taking vitamins which I think have helped alot & melatonin for sleep. I am going to get some valierian Root today...hope that it works better than melatonin. I work full time so I am scared to death that this is going to get worse before it gets better. The cold chills are my biggest complaint. Does anyone know how long that typically might last? I am keeping my faith & know that without God I would not be at day 3 clean - I would still be a slave to Methadone.

[Chi_Chi_Lover]

I went CT Feb. 2007 almost 2 years. It was hard for 5-6 months but didn't want to trade on drug (lortabs) for another (suboxone).
I took ambien every night during the first 6 months it was hard to come off of it but I only took the recommened dose 10mg. The first 9 months were pretty tough times.

The past few months I have been dealing with some personal issues and will use something to sleep on occasion but I never take more than the prescribed amount mostly half the dose and never every night.
I have been very lucky to not ever crave lortabs or relapse I don't know why when so many others struggle.
I was just sick of the crazy circle of getting and taking pills and had enough. I don't care to ever go back to that it was too stressful.