Aa
I believe there should be some sort of legal action
I've been a member of this site for a few years. I've had my share of addiction battles with painkillers. I've seen and read the hundreds of posts by others who have had to suffer like I have; some much worse than mine. I think it's time we do something about the core of the problem by sending a message to these massive pharmaceutical companies who have pushed their products on good, but naive people knowing full well people like us would get "hooked." I'm just trying to gauge how many people feel the same way? How many people's lives have been ruined or suffered long-term side effects of these painkillers? Enough is enough! The tobacco industry, the asbestos industry and others have long tried to hide the long-term, debilitating and life-threatening effects of their products and have been exposed for their cover-ups! Thoughts?
The medications themselves isn't inherently bad...far from it.
Correction...."aren't" not "isn't"
Correction...."aren't" not "isn't"
You're applying all of the same "rules" per se to addiction and dependency, when they DO differ quite a bit.
"Given these circumstances, how does someone who innocently began taking something prescribed for a legitimate reason know that he would have been addicted and can't survive without them. Lost his family and/or job. Lost friends. May have health issues. How do you know this would have happened?"
The above statements you're making sounds more relevant to addiction versus dependency. While dependent people often have to endure physical w/d, they don"t usually suffer the kinds of consequences you described. Sure, some people DO end up with addiction issues after being only dependent, but again, I think you're lumping both together, which changes the argument a bit.
As far as the unknown? Well, how would you answer that for ANY kind of risk that you would consent to? The risk that you could have a life threatening complication during a very simple routine test or surgery? You read the consent form carefully, including the fine print. The test/surgery isn't something you NEED, but it is something that could potentially help you. So, how would you apply the logic you're relating to opiates to that?
"No one in their right mind would put themselves through that knowing what THEY KNOW NOW! "
Of course they would. If you're talking about dependency (not addiction), it's just a fact when dealing with opiates, and people who need them are willing to put up with tolerance and w/ds to benefit from the medication
Just like someone enduring hellish chemo cancer treatment. You want to talk about a medication/treatment that causes some people to be in misery 24/7? There you go. So, should they not make it anymore because it has those effects? Should people not consent to the treatment because of the unknown?
I understand your argument, I just think it's massively flawed, and you're trying to make it cut and dry, and put the connotation that all opiates are bad and no one should take them or they shouldn't be made available.
There are MORE people who benefit from opiates when used appropriately without any problems than there are people who end up living a nightmare and becoming an addict. The medications themselves isn't inherently bad...far from it.
I just REALLY think you're applying the issues of addiction to opiates across the board, even to dependency, which differs quite a bit.
"Given these circumstances, how does someone who innocently began taking something prescribed for a legitimate reason know that he would have been addicted and can't survive without them. Lost his family and/or job. Lost friends. May have health issues. How do you know this would have happened?"
The above statements you're making sounds more relevant to addiction versus dependency. While dependent people often have to endure physical w/d, they don"t usually suffer the kinds of consequences you described. Sure, some people DO end up with addiction issues after being only dependent, but again, I think you're lumping both together, which changes the argument a bit.
As far as the unknown? Well, how would you answer that for ANY kind of risk that you would consent to? The risk that you could have a life threatening complication during a very simple routine test or surgery? You read the consent form carefully, including the fine print. The test/surgery isn't something you NEED, but it is something that could potentially help you. So, how would you apply the logic you're relating to opiates to that?
"No one in their right mind would put themselves through that knowing what THEY KNOW NOW! "
Of course they would. If you're talking about dependency (not addiction), it's just a fact when dealing with opiates, and people who need them are willing to put up with tolerance and w/ds to benefit from the medication
Just like someone enduring hellish chemo cancer treatment. You want to talk about a medication/treatment that causes some people to be in misery 24/7? There you go. So, should they not make it anymore because it has those effects? Should people not consent to the treatment because of the unknown?
I understand your argument, I just think it's massively flawed, and you're trying to make it cut and dry, and put the connotation that all opiates are bad and no one should take them or they shouldn't be made available.
There are MORE people who benefit from opiates when used appropriately without any problems than there are people who end up living a nightmare and becoming an addict. The medications themselves isn't inherently bad...far from it.
I just REALLY think you're applying the issues of addiction to opiates across the board, even to dependency, which differs quite a bit.
Not sure I agree, but that's fine.
What I still am not clear about - and no one seems to have answered this. A hypothetical may be more illustrative and helpful: you go to a doctor for back pain. He prescribes you 30 oxy. You fill it at your pharmacy and pick it up. You read through the fine print warnings and say to yourself "ok, doesn't apply to me." You find yourself taking the pills on a daily basis. The problem persists for months and then years. Eventually, you know full well you don't even need the pills but are just supporting your habit and/or afraid to get off because you don't want to get sick. You are hooked.
Hypothetical is over. Given these circumstances, how does someone who innocently began taking something prescribed for a legitimate reason know that he would have been addicted and can't survive without them. Lost his family and/or job. Lost friends. May have health issues. How do you know this would have happened? Based on the fine-print warnings? Because a friend told you once "opiates can be addicting?" It's all subjective and how can you answer the unknown? I've heard from dozens of asbestos plaintiffs "if i knew back then what it really did to you, I never would have used those products..." Doesn't the same logic apply? No one in their right mind would put themselves through that knowing what THEY KNOW NOW! Any logical responses that make sense? Yes, I'm aware of personal accountability. But how do you explain the unknown?
What I still am not clear about - and no one seems to have answered this. A hypothetical may be more illustrative and helpful: you go to a doctor for back pain. He prescribes you 30 oxy. You fill it at your pharmacy and pick it up. You read through the fine print warnings and say to yourself "ok, doesn't apply to me." You find yourself taking the pills on a daily basis. The problem persists for months and then years. Eventually, you know full well you don't even need the pills but are just supporting your habit and/or afraid to get off because you don't want to get sick. You are hooked.
Hypothetical is over. Given these circumstances, how does someone who innocently began taking something prescribed for a legitimate reason know that he would have been addicted and can't survive without them. Lost his family and/or job. Lost friends. May have health issues. How do you know this would have happened? Based on the fine-print warnings? Because a friend told you once "opiates can be addicting?" It's all subjective and how can you answer the unknown? I've heard from dozens of asbestos plaintiffs "if i knew back then what it really did to you, I never would have used those products..." Doesn't the same logic apply? No one in their right mind would put themselves through that knowing what THEY KNOW NOW! Any logical responses that make sense? Yes, I'm aware of personal accountability. But how do you explain the unknown?
Wow I must of missed this..So this is the post that you were telling me about CIK..
Well I never went to a Dr and got any meds as I was growing up..at the age 14 I took some bennies. I continued to tap in street drugs no matter what they where & drink off & on..From Speed, Coke, Lsd, Mushrooms, Pcp, Angle dust,Pot, Thc, downers/uppers and so on and so fourth. I only used these recreational & a lot of them just once because I did not like the feeling. I could always walk away when I got burned out on something. Then back in 1983 I got hooked on the Crank as I was drinking with it too..This was my escape from the pain of my little brother dieing. As years went by my drug use got further apart, but I was drinking on occasions here and there and it started to be a daily thing. SO I never even new about Addiction or what a Addict was about..Nothing was ever going to happen to me..HA! Then back in the 90s I got prescribed my first opiate. I took them right and by the time I took the last one I was done. I was OK for a awhile with out these meds..Then I got a few for my female pain in the late 90s..This is where I did get out of control..Even my Dr would only give me 20 a month for female pain.I would always run short of my meds for all these years and spent lots of money and time driving and waiting to get some more. .It was ME who played the game to get a stronger lasting med called Methadone.
We had a DR come through this town and pull everyone off of this drug..he said it was for Bone Marrow patience and for ones who need off heroin. SO I just played the game and got it back because I had some up coming surgery. This went on & on until my Dr told me she would have to taper me. As she did taper me down I wanted more..The whole time, for many years I would play the game to get more and any opiate would due.. Then I started to add the Adderall ( i do not have adhd) to my Methadone to stretch them out a bit..This too me, in my own head was like legal Crank..It made me feel just like my Crank days but with out the jitters. I have never been to much into the Benzo or Valiums, but I would take one to come down. "This is when I knew I was in BIG trouble because I could NOT walk away anymore". This went on for almost 16 years. Sure I went to work and paid off my property and my trucks and such. I would come home and do all kinds of work inside and out even late at night in the dark.
It took a voice from a stranger that my Dad new to make me wake up. I had no idea how spun I was and I was getting worse..By then I knew I needed help and that "YES" I am a Addict. I always new about Alcoholics which I thought I was not because I did not drink everyday..Ya right!
Since then I have studied this in a Scientific way and it has been proven that we can be born with a D-2 Gene which can contribute to us becoming addictive.
I went into a re-hab where I had learned alot about this disease. When I was in there I was SO mad that I wanted to write a book and call it.."The Drug Pushers in the White Jackets"..Now I have come so far that I know it is NOT the DRUG, but what WE want the drug to do for us..Some like drugs to make them go down and out, and others like them to get all jacked up..Many drugs affect the brain in different ways, making this a big part of what we want out of this drug. Addiction comes in MANY forms..Like Gambling, Sex, Choclet, Shopping etc.
I am not going to blame the Dr or Pharmacies now because I do know now they have really gotten way strict about prescribing these meds in our town..Some Dr will ask about your Family History so they can take it from there. Some Dr will even do a swab in the mouth to see if you have this gene. I know a girl that had a swab test come out positive, because her Mom was a BAD alcoholic and she made the decision never to touch anything. OK! NOW when I was going to school back in the 60-70s, all I had seen was a Egg being friend in a pan and saying this is your Brain on drugs. My Mom used to say they should of scrambled it..yes maybe that would of hit home a bit. BUT when we are young we also think NOTHING is going to happen to us. Addiction does not happen over night either..It takes years to build up in many areas of the brain and for many reason.
I do think they need to push this Disease in a more Scientific way and show what drugs hit what part of the Brain, and how the good Chems/Hormones get knocked down a bit..Also about the Midbrain (pleasure part) which is the survival part..Any Addicting thing takes over this part of the Brain, then we become so hooked that nothing else matter but what gives us this pleasure..Water, Sex, Air, nothing but the seeking of this pleasure. We now are using to Live and Living to use or find that pleasure..We love those Dopamine Surges that we get too.
I was getting involved at my Meetings to go around the schools and talk with these kids about this until my health took a turn..BUT it will get better as long as I do not SMOKE..OK there is another one..I told the Heart Dr why do they not make these illegal if you are seeing so many people with Heart issues due to this..Well number one it is there Job security, but they do care..he said that it is our Choice to take what we want..Well BS!! I would of been better off (if I was not a Addict) to take a pill vs the Cigs..However it all intertwines together and will destroy our heath in many ways..WE ARE WHAT WE EAT!!!
SO!! I will not blame anyone BUT I sure do think they should have a hour education class at the schools every day..They can show films on people, places and things that got destroyed by drinking or driving under the influence on anything..They can teach them all about the Chems/Hormones and Transmitters and such in the Brain..They can teach them what drug hits what area and so on and so fourth..A Kid will be a Kid and do what ever they are going to do..However, I do think this will make them think a bit more before they do mess up there Brain..Sometimes the Brain can or will not balance back 100% either after drug or alcohol use..CIGS are the WORSE!! They do just as much if not more damage to the whole body/brain system!!
OH WHAT A WORLD WE LIVE IN...BUT IT IS UP TO US TO DO OUR HOMEWORK & HELP TEACH OUR KIDS!! I just partied all the time with my family & friends and there friends. Ha!!
Just be very GRATEFUL for what YOU have Just For Today!!!
PS..Sorry I got off the subject a bit..I was just trying to point out that it is not always from the Drs or Pharmacies and that it can happen anywhere. It is our choice now on what we do..
Bless
Well I never went to a Dr and got any meds as I was growing up..at the age 14 I took some bennies. I continued to tap in street drugs no matter what they where & drink off & on..From Speed, Coke, Lsd, Mushrooms, Pcp, Angle dust,Pot, Thc, downers/uppers and so on and so fourth. I only used these recreational & a lot of them just once because I did not like the feeling. I could always walk away when I got burned out on something. Then back in 1983 I got hooked on the Crank as I was drinking with it too..This was my escape from the pain of my little brother dieing. As years went by my drug use got further apart, but I was drinking on occasions here and there and it started to be a daily thing. SO I never even new about Addiction or what a Addict was about..Nothing was ever going to happen to me..HA! Then back in the 90s I got prescribed my first opiate. I took them right and by the time I took the last one I was done. I was OK for a awhile with out these meds..Then I got a few for my female pain in the late 90s..This is where I did get out of control..Even my Dr would only give me 20 a month for female pain.I would always run short of my meds for all these years and spent lots of money and time driving and waiting to get some more. .It was ME who played the game to get a stronger lasting med called Methadone.
We had a DR come through this town and pull everyone off of this drug..he said it was for Bone Marrow patience and for ones who need off heroin. SO I just played the game and got it back because I had some up coming surgery. This went on & on until my Dr told me she would have to taper me. As she did taper me down I wanted more..The whole time, for many years I would play the game to get more and any opiate would due.. Then I started to add the Adderall ( i do not have adhd) to my Methadone to stretch them out a bit..This too me, in my own head was like legal Crank..It made me feel just like my Crank days but with out the jitters. I have never been to much into the Benzo or Valiums, but I would take one to come down. "This is when I knew I was in BIG trouble because I could NOT walk away anymore". This went on for almost 16 years. Sure I went to work and paid off my property and my trucks and such. I would come home and do all kinds of work inside and out even late at night in the dark.
It took a voice from a stranger that my Dad new to make me wake up. I had no idea how spun I was and I was getting worse..By then I knew I needed help and that "YES" I am a Addict. I always new about Alcoholics which I thought I was not because I did not drink everyday..Ya right!
Since then I have studied this in a Scientific way and it has been proven that we can be born with a D-2 Gene which can contribute to us becoming addictive.
I went into a re-hab where I had learned alot about this disease. When I was in there I was SO mad that I wanted to write a book and call it.."The Drug Pushers in the White Jackets"..Now I have come so far that I know it is NOT the DRUG, but what WE want the drug to do for us..Some like drugs to make them go down and out, and others like them to get all jacked up..Many drugs affect the brain in different ways, making this a big part of what we want out of this drug. Addiction comes in MANY forms..Like Gambling, Sex, Choclet, Shopping etc.
I am not going to blame the Dr or Pharmacies now because I do know now they have really gotten way strict about prescribing these meds in our town..Some Dr will ask about your Family History so they can take it from there. Some Dr will even do a swab in the mouth to see if you have this gene. I know a girl that had a swab test come out positive, because her Mom was a BAD alcoholic and she made the decision never to touch anything. OK! NOW when I was going to school back in the 60-70s, all I had seen was a Egg being friend in a pan and saying this is your Brain on drugs. My Mom used to say they should of scrambled it..yes maybe that would of hit home a bit. BUT when we are young we also think NOTHING is going to happen to us. Addiction does not happen over night either..It takes years to build up in many areas of the brain and for many reason.
I do think they need to push this Disease in a more Scientific way and show what drugs hit what part of the Brain, and how the good Chems/Hormones get knocked down a bit..Also about the Midbrain (pleasure part) which is the survival part..Any Addicting thing takes over this part of the Brain, then we become so hooked that nothing else matter but what gives us this pleasure..Water, Sex, Air, nothing but the seeking of this pleasure. We now are using to Live and Living to use or find that pleasure..We love those Dopamine Surges that we get too.
I was getting involved at my Meetings to go around the schools and talk with these kids about this until my health took a turn..BUT it will get better as long as I do not SMOKE..OK there is another one..I told the Heart Dr why do they not make these illegal if you are seeing so many people with Heart issues due to this..Well number one it is there Job security, but they do care..he said that it is our Choice to take what we want..Well BS!! I would of been better off (if I was not a Addict) to take a pill vs the Cigs..However it all intertwines together and will destroy our heath in many ways..WE ARE WHAT WE EAT!!!
SO!! I will not blame anyone BUT I sure do think they should have a hour education class at the schools every day..They can show films on people, places and things that got destroyed by drinking or driving under the influence on anything..They can teach them all about the Chems/Hormones and Transmitters and such in the Brain..They can teach them what drug hits what area and so on and so fourth..A Kid will be a Kid and do what ever they are going to do..However, I do think this will make them think a bit more before they do mess up there Brain..Sometimes the Brain can or will not balance back 100% either after drug or alcohol use..CIGS are the WORSE!! They do just as much if not more damage to the whole body/brain system!!
OH WHAT A WORLD WE LIVE IN...BUT IT IS UP TO US TO DO OUR HOMEWORK & HELP TEACH OUR KIDS!! I just partied all the time with my family & friends and there friends. Ha!!
Just be very GRATEFUL for what YOU have Just For Today!!!
PS..Sorry I got off the subject a bit..I was just trying to point out that it is not always from the Drs or Pharmacies and that it can happen anywhere. It is our choice now on what we do..
Bless
I see your point. At one point I was both extremely angry and alarmed at what one could purchase off the net. The main thing I voiced out at the time was concerning the possible 'bad' stuff children/young teenagers could possibly obtain. Looking back though, it was my way of alerting those around me what I was at risk of purchasing, in an odd way to protect and help myself! It just sounded better, and far more mature to focus concern for the youth. I have some difficult mental health problems including self-harm and unhealthy coping skills within my main disorder of B.P.D. I knew I lacked ability to take responsibility for my own health and safety. I agree to an extent about preying on the vulnerable.
However, on the flip side. Firstly I realized that I had time to think. I knew I was able to understand an action to be wrong;. ' I then proved to myself that I did not lack the ability to take responsibility for my own health and safety' - A negative concept I had of myself was changed. At the end of the day, I hope that others gain belief in their ability to make educated choices. Surely none of us want to be dictated to, the weak can't always be victims even if they want to be - of which even I have proved!! :-) unfinished.....Beanie0 -).
However, on the flip side. Firstly I realized that I had time to think. I knew I was able to understand an action to be wrong;. ' I then proved to myself that I did not lack the ability to take responsibility for my own health and safety' - A negative concept I had of myself was changed. At the end of the day, I hope that others gain belief in their ability to make educated choices. Surely none of us want to be dictated to, the weak can't always be victims even if they want to be - of which even I have proved!! :-) unfinished.....Beanie0 -).
I await to hear your proposition and strategy. Nursegirl makes a good point, even at 2 years I have to weigh the benefits and costs of focusing on saving the world and saving myself. I want to do them both and figure I bought 30 years by quitting drugs. This will be a life long battle, myself as well as fighting corruption. We already won, because we are clear enough to even care. Risk the clarity and we lose. We must choose our battles wisely.
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