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EVERYONE LETS GET SOME VIEWS:
This issue is driving me nuts: CHEM-DEPENDENCE--VS--ADDICTION.
I used/booze off and on most of my life because it was the party...but when the opiates got me, I went up the latter to more and a mix to match...So I did not think of addiction until I no longer could control myself and could not give them up do to fear of w/ds. As most I feel we came to a Chem Dependence.The drugs got me up and going........but what in the world is the difference between the two...I read and listen to people but ?????
I used/booze off and on most of my life because it was the party...but when the opiates got me, I went up the latter to more and a mix to match...So I did not think of addiction until I no longer could control myself and could not give them up do to fear of w/ds. As most I feel we came to a Chem Dependence.The drugs got me up and going........but what in the world is the difference between the two...I read and listen to people but ?????
Best Answer
for us addicts there is no difference.It is just semantics.
When speaking of a pain patient in medical terms,all addicts are dependent but not all people who become dependent are addicts.My neighbor for example is dependent on morphine for severe back issues.He does not get high when he takes it.If it is not working he does not take more meds,instead he makes another doctor appointment and addresses it.If they take him off of it he does go through withdrawal symptoms but he does not have the mental obsession of wanting the pills.When he is withdrawing he does not speak of mental torture,only of increased pain.He does not count the pills he has.
Another big thing is,He says He would rather not take them at all because of constipation drowsiness etc. Us on the other hand,we get jacked up on them and we really don't care about the negative side effects.We view them as a very tolerable exchange for the increased euphoria and carefree feeling they give us.
This is by no means a concise definition of the difference but just an observation of one person who I know who is opiate dependent.I know others who are also what I would call dependent and they are much like him. The example above does not reflect myself in any way because I was addicted and not dependent. Hope this helps lol
When speaking of a pain patient in medical terms,all addicts are dependent but not all people who become dependent are addicts.My neighbor for example is dependent on morphine for severe back issues.He does not get high when he takes it.If it is not working he does not take more meds,instead he makes another doctor appointment and addresses it.If they take him off of it he does go through withdrawal symptoms but he does not have the mental obsession of wanting the pills.When he is withdrawing he does not speak of mental torture,only of increased pain.He does not count the pills he has.
Another big thing is,He says He would rather not take them at all because of constipation drowsiness etc. Us on the other hand,we get jacked up on them and we really don't care about the negative side effects.We view them as a very tolerable exchange for the increased euphoria and carefree feeling they give us.
This is by no means a concise definition of the difference but just an observation of one person who I know who is opiate dependent.I know others who are also what I would call dependent and they are much like him. The example above does not reflect myself in any way because I was addicted and not dependent. Hope this helps lol
So it would be like for me I know I have become an addict. So then for that said, I came dependent on it. Which in turn, made be go fishing for it anywere, and many many mile to find and lots of money when the script ran short...So it is the way we go about it in the long run that turns us into addicts? You know lie-steal-cheat-ect- We get sooo out of control..
I guess the main criteria is.......did it make you feel good in your mind when you took it.Did it give you a euphoria or just kill physical pain.
If the answer is yes it made me feel happy and carefree then yes you are an addict.
If the answer is yes it made me feel happy and carefree then yes you are an addict.
While there are some gray areas, there are definitely some big differences. Addiction has to do more with the mental cravings and the behaviors involved in getting the drug. An addict will often do things very out of character to obtain more and more, and also disregard their own health and safety.
People who are physically dependent do not have that mental aspect, they don't have cravings, they don't take more than prescribed...basically, they just experience w/ds when they stop taking the drug. People who are dependent could easily walk away from a medication, never think about it, or crave it again.
An excerpt from a link that explains the differences very well:
While tolerance and physical dependence are physical changes in the body, addiction is defined by aberrant changes in behavior. Addiction is compulsive use of drugs for nonmedical reasons; it is characterized by a craving for mood altering drug effects, not pain relief.[8] Addiction means dysfunctional behavior, in sharp contrast to the improved function and quality of life that result from pain relief. Aberrant behaviors which indicate addiction may include: denial of drug use; lying; forgery of prescriptions; theft of drugs from other patients or family members; selling and buying drugs on the street; using prescribed drugs to get "high."[8]
http://www.whocancerpain.wisc.edu/?q=node/245
So, a person who is an addict is also dependent, but someone who is dependent is not usually "addicted". They can certainly interwine in some cases.
People who are physically dependent do not have that mental aspect, they don't have cravings, they don't take more than prescribed...basically, they just experience w/ds when they stop taking the drug. People who are dependent could easily walk away from a medication, never think about it, or crave it again.
An excerpt from a link that explains the differences very well:
While tolerance and physical dependence are physical changes in the body, addiction is defined by aberrant changes in behavior. Addiction is compulsive use of drugs for nonmedical reasons; it is characterized by a craving for mood altering drug effects, not pain relief.[8] Addiction means dysfunctional behavior, in sharp contrast to the improved function and quality of life that result from pain relief. Aberrant behaviors which indicate addiction may include: denial of drug use; lying; forgery of prescriptions; theft of drugs from other patients or family members; selling and buying drugs on the street; using prescribed drugs to get "high."[8]
http://www.whocancerpain.wisc.edu/?q=node/245
So, a person who is an addict is also dependent, but someone who is dependent is not usually "addicted". They can certainly interwine in some cases.
I became addicted to pain pills thru medical need . I had surgery and my pain was eased ,about 90% less , I no longer needed the pills for pain , i needed them because i was addicted . For an extra 2 months i took them before my wife asked if i was still haveing pain , I said no real pain i am addicted and can't stop .
This site helped me get free of pain pills , i am almost 6 months off (Norco) .
After the first few days of W/D were over I have had No craveings or thoughts of wanting for pills .
Yes i still have some days where pain is a problem , but heat Advil and hot showers seem to help . Now i get thru the pain in a few hours it eases up and no pills needed . No addicted life 24/7 .
I feel so much better now that i no longer take the pills ... Ron
The
This site helped me get free of pain pills , i am almost 6 months off (Norco) .
After the first few days of W/D were over I have had No craveings or thoughts of wanting for pills .
Yes i still have some days where pain is a problem , but heat Advil and hot showers seem to help . Now i get thru the pain in a few hours it eases up and no pills needed . No addicted life 24/7 .
I feel so much better now that i no longer take the pills ... Ron
The
As I posted in another column, this is perhaps a corny example, but it is the best way I have to put it:
I take Vicodin.
I take Ambien, a sleep drug.
Vicodin Addiction: If I don't take Vicodin, my body and mind start to suffer withdrawals. After I pop some pills (actually I have tapered down to one pill now), I feel all normal, again. The withdrawal symptoms vanish.
Ambien Dependence: If I don't take an Ambien nightly I do not physically suffer. There's no "feed me" screams going on inside. But, I am dependent on Ambien to get to sleep. If I don't take Ambien, I'm staying up all night. When I take an Ambien, I am asleep in 20 minutes.
Sidenote: I am glad I am not addicted to Ambien. Can you imagine: taking an Ambien every 8 hours because my body and mind suffer WD symptoms if I don't poop an Ambien every few hours. I might as well stay in bed 24/7.
I take Vicodin.
I take Ambien, a sleep drug.
Vicodin Addiction: If I don't take Vicodin, my body and mind start to suffer withdrawals. After I pop some pills (actually I have tapered down to one pill now), I feel all normal, again. The withdrawal symptoms vanish.
Ambien Dependence: If I don't take an Ambien nightly I do not physically suffer. There's no "feed me" screams going on inside. But, I am dependent on Ambien to get to sleep. If I don't take Ambien, I'm staying up all night. When I take an Ambien, I am asleep in 20 minutes.
Sidenote: I am glad I am not addicted to Ambien. Can you imagine: taking an Ambien every 8 hours because my body and mind suffer WD symptoms if I don't poop an Ambien every few hours. I might as well stay in bed 24/7.
Oops, please strike "poop" and insert "pop" in the second-to-last sentence :)
Unless "poop an Ambien" somehow makes more sense to you. ;)
Bonus Tip: if you are pooping Ambien, please consult your doctor.
Unless "poop an Ambien" somehow makes more sense to you. ;)
Bonus Tip: if you are pooping Ambien, please consult your doctor.
Hi guys just so you know I have been here awhile. I am days away from 6 months. I did see the thread jordan that is why I posted this...What nurse girls make akot of since on what we talk about at the meetings....So yes I do agree with it....Yes ron I am 3-4 days behind you...Ha! ha!
god bless us all
vickie
god bless us all
vickie
No difference at all. Addiction...substance abuse..it's all the same. Each is as bad as the other. If you have to ask the question...there's a problem either way...
In my NA book in the chapter "Who is an Addict" what grabs me is: "It's our reaction to the drugs, not how much we use."
Yes open mind it does say that huh!! I know I became an addict there is just a reason why I posted this. I wanted to here from other people. Some people will not say the word ADDICT...or even know they have a on going disease and if they play with fire they will get burned......and Andie I do not have to ask the question I just wanted to hear what other people thought about this..Dependent vs Addiction...
Thank all
vickie
Thank all
vickie
Jordan, Haha at your "pooping Ambien" comment. That would be alarming indeed, unless you're a pharmacy. Then it would be useful.
I agree that addiction reflects behavior--obsessive behavior. Binge drinkers aren't physically dependent on alcohol in my view, as they can go days, weeks, or months between binges. But they can still consider themselves alcoholic, which I believe is addiction in booze-speak?
I agree that addiction reflects behavior--obsessive behavior. Binge drinkers aren't physically dependent on alcohol in my view, as they can go days, weeks, or months between binges. But they can still consider themselves alcoholic, which I believe is addiction in booze-speak?
Yes I see where you're coming from I can go awhile without taking anything or drinking anything but once I start drinking then it's over and I'm gone for a couple weeks at the very least and it's just the way my alcoholic/addicted mind works.
OK For my experience I think It is a Fine Line......
I became Physically & Mental to NEEDING them...
Then it turns into a Obsession and Surival to WANTING them...
So be it said I went from chem/dependent to becomming a addict/addiction.......
No one takes that first drug of choice and becomes and addict in 1 Hour or a Day................
I did not say I wanted to be an addict when I grow up..........
God Loves us anyway!!!!!
vickie
I became Physically & Mental to NEEDING them...
Then it turns into a Obsession and Surival to WANTING them...
So be it said I went from chem/dependent to becomming a addict/addiction.......
No one takes that first drug of choice and becomes and addict in 1 Hour or a Day................
I did not say I wanted to be an addict when I grow up..........
God Loves us anyway!!!!!
vickie
Wow Vickie, you're up early this morning :-)
I was born an addict. I had an emptiness inside that was impossible to fill by people places and things. Contentment and fulfillment were impossible. I was full of self-obsession. Starting at age 13, drugs and alcohol took care of that, but I had to keep using more and more to fill that empty hole of self-obsession. I had drug choices. I did them all except opiates and cocaine. My main DOC, over all other hippy drugs of the day, was alcohol, #2 was weed. The most available drugs of the day. I got clean at age 36 and thru the 12 steps of AA, I worked on changing that empty hole. I learned to get my contentment and fulfillment from a power greater than me. It all worked very well until around age 63. That's when my lower back blew and I took Vicodin for pain maintenance. Long story short - I was addicted again before I knew it. All my DOCs came marching back into my life. Moral of the story: only complete sobriety can make us and keep us normal. That is if we are true addicts. I can't speak for someone who doesn't have the disease of addiction, like my wife for example.
I was born an addict. I had an emptiness inside that was impossible to fill by people places and things. Contentment and fulfillment were impossible. I was full of self-obsession. Starting at age 13, drugs and alcohol took care of that, but I had to keep using more and more to fill that empty hole of self-obsession. I had drug choices. I did them all except opiates and cocaine. My main DOC, over all other hippy drugs of the day, was alcohol, #2 was weed. The most available drugs of the day. I got clean at age 36 and thru the 12 steps of AA, I worked on changing that empty hole. I learned to get my contentment and fulfillment from a power greater than me. It all worked very well until around age 63. That's when my lower back blew and I took Vicodin for pain maintenance. Long story short - I was addicted again before I knew it. All my DOCs came marching back into my life. Moral of the story: only complete sobriety can make us and keep us normal. That is if we are true addicts. I can't speak for someone who doesn't have the disease of addiction, like my wife for example.
Hi yes I got up for a bit my mind was wondering around. Have to go to dentist this AM yek...OK now I played with the drugs/booze since I was 14. I would do it stop for a long time. Then try a new one and drink and stop again. It was like everyone was doing it so lets party...Now my point is If we are born with the addictive gene (D2) It still takes using over and over and over with out any breaks to build up the disease of addiction..So be that said. When I was prescibed pain pills for pain INEEDED them then after and into 16yrs I WANTED them. It became a survial thing now. Thats when the addiction started for me the last 12-16yrs. Although I have always had the addiction gene or whatever it took many, many yrs of doing it over and over to become a addict. That is what my point is. It does not happen over night...
Open---Did you do your drugs every day? over and over for yrs and yrs?
All your life?
Thanks and God Bless us addicts anyway..I walk closer with him then I have ever....
vickie
Open---Did you do your drugs every day? over and over for yrs and yrs?
All your life?
Thanks and God Bless us addicts anyway..I walk closer with him then I have ever....
vickie
I'm sorry...I didn't mean that in a nasty way. I was just saying there wasn't a difference.
In the early years I did my DOCs every day I could get my hands on them, but usually after my responsibilities were met that day. Somehow my parents instilled a sense of responsibility in us kids. They were 2 for 3 with addicts for kids. Me and my little sis. She studied under me lol. I hadn't started drinking in the morning, but I did on lunch hour if I had an easy day going. When I got home I got lost on the stuff. But by around age 36 I NEEDED that drink in the morning to straighten up. I was about to lose my career that I worked so hard for. So I stopped at age 36. At age 63 I was retired from that career that spanned over 40 years. So when I started back up I was in deep deep trouble. I used every day, all day. It proved to be the worst time possible to be practicing my addiction again.
Oh, my little sis has 30 years completely clean in AA with a good career still going.
Oh, my little sis has 30 years completely clean in AA with a good career still going.
I've been thinking about this for a while now and will admit that I don't have an answer that I am confident is correct. For me, I have a personality that enjoys the high of smoking pot, the joy ride of taking acid (when I was so much younger), the drinking party, and then the euphoria of opiates. What I do know is that I tripped when it was available. When it wasn't I just didn't do it anymore. I have plenty of pot in the safe today but haven't smoke it for about a year. But maybe I will for a night or two then not for another year. One day, more than a decade ago, I just didn't drink any more. Then the opiates, which were prescribed by a doctor and worked for the daily migraines, were fun so I did it to excess. However, the opiates were different for me. I began getting them from two doctors because I enjoyed the euphoria. Today is day 7 of not taking any but I know I could call one of the doctors and have 180 by lunch today. I just don't have the mental desire to do so. I was worried about the WDs but they were actually tolerable. Noticable but tolerable. I know as I was tapering and then during the first few days I was questioning the ability to not take them but once I got to day 3 it was more just getting through the fog but no desire to take anything. So, is it just binge drugging or does the dependacy or fear of WDs keep an individual using? Can there be signs of both? With respect to opiates, I feel like I got caught with my hand in the cookie jar. Actually, I say I was getting them from 2 doctors, which is true, they each knew I was doing it. I told doctor A that I was getting a Rx from doctor B and told B about A. I will admit that I didn't accurately tell them how many pills I was taking per day (nice way to say I lied) and after 15 years or so maybe doctor A figured it out but as the ability to obtain the pills became in question I told doctor B I didn't want anymore (doctor A told me). So would I be inclined to take pain medication again? I don't think so but more out of the stress I have at the possible liver damage, not liking the affect they had on my life the past few years, and not wanting to go through the WDs which may be far worse next time. Opiates were then hardest thing to finally stop over the others. Will I get stoned again. Probably. Maybe not. I'm way to old to drop acid again even if it's still available. I know I have no desire to drink anymore. So, I don't know what my situation is. I can honestly say that had I not found this site and all the information and support I received I would probably still be taking the pills. BUt did this site help me stop the dependacy or the addiction. To me it doesn't matter because I stopped a drug I lost control over when the other drugs didn't present the same issue. I like the philosophical question. Thanks.
Can there be signs of both?
Most definitely. Sometimes, a person starts out with a dependency only, and eventually become addicted. They start taking the meds for inappropriate reasons. For example, someone may have started out on a pain med for chronic back pain, and were on them long enough that they were dependent. However, that person quickly recognized that the meds gave them energy and confidence...so they started taking them before social functions, to help them have energy at work, etc. At that point, they would be considered an addict, because they would be abusing their medication, taking it for reasons other than why it was Rx'ed.
A person who is addicted is almost always dependent (as far as opiates go anyway), but a person who is dependent is not always addicted. It can lead to that though.
From your description, I would say you definitely were addicted. You displayed those behaviors and abused the medication...you did things that were out of character, like lying about your use, because you knew you were not using it properly.
At the end of thr day, I don't think the label is as important as doing something about it. A LOT of people struggle with that label..."addict". For some people, that's one of the hardest things to come to terms with in their recovery...admitting that they ARE an addict and being okay with that. I can certainly understand that due to the stigma that unfortunately still exists.
Most definitely. Sometimes, a person starts out with a dependency only, and eventually become addicted. They start taking the meds for inappropriate reasons. For example, someone may have started out on a pain med for chronic back pain, and were on them long enough that they were dependent. However, that person quickly recognized that the meds gave them energy and confidence...so they started taking them before social functions, to help them have energy at work, etc. At that point, they would be considered an addict, because they would be abusing their medication, taking it for reasons other than why it was Rx'ed.
A person who is addicted is almost always dependent (as far as opiates go anyway), but a person who is dependent is not always addicted. It can lead to that though.
From your description, I would say you definitely were addicted. You displayed those behaviors and abused the medication...you did things that were out of character, like lying about your use, because you knew you were not using it properly.
At the end of thr day, I don't think the label is as important as doing something about it. A LOT of people struggle with that label..."addict". For some people, that's one of the hardest things to come to terms with in their recovery...admitting that they ARE an addict and being okay with that. I can certainly understand that due to the stigma that unfortunately still exists.
Whats in a name ? Addiction by any other name would still jack your life up. ;-)
I have not been on here for a year or so. I was addicted to tramadol, and was so afraid of the withdrawal which was very severe for me. I also had an allergic type reaction to it, it made me itch like crazy at first. I discussed this with my doctor and I believe some addictions, even alcohol are a chemistry thing, because of RA and pain I am on Hydro, but I only take half in morning and half at night. I don't have withdrawals if I forget them, the only thing that drove me nuts was tramadol. I have a huge history of alcoholics in my family and after watching them for years, its one drink and they are gone. I will not touch the stuff even though I know thank god the gene skipped me. I never got high on them, however and never really feel high on hydro, I am in so much pain all the time I feel there is nothing left for a high, lol, all it does is ease my pain so I can work and live a little.
I kinda see what you're saying and to me it doesn't matter, addication vs dependancy. But, just to play devil's advocate, don't many people drink coffee, Red Bulls, 5 Hour Energy in excess to get energy daily? Don't people wear a favorite suit or tie to feel confident at a meeting or social event? I lied to the doctors because I couldn't go to Starbucks and get all the opiates I wanted and thankfully so. I am assuming that this is not only restricted to drugs or alcohol. Addicted? Agreed. I know I tried to stop several times over the past 10 to 12 years but wasn't serious. I was having fun. Now maybe it was the addiction talking back then. Maybe it was fear of the WDs. Maybe it was fear of not stopping once I became educated by what I read on this site. I'm not sure. If I could get them today without a doctor and without daily limits I don't think I would but who knows. Sorry, I love discussing philosophical issues.
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I respectfully disagree, there IS a difference. There ARE a lot of areas where the two are similar and even interwine for some people, but there is a big difference between someone who is just physically dependent on a drug and someone who has the mental dependency aspect.
Someone here once described it very well, and very simply...dependence is PHYSICAL, addiction is MENTAL. That does pretty much describe the difference in a nut shell.
The way I look at it is...a person who is dependent but not an addict doesn't display those maladaptive behaviors that an addict does. There's no "romancing" the drug, no mental NEED or desire to take them. People who are not addicted would not seek the drug out other than for their pain (or whatever a med is Rx'ed for). Even when they KNEW that skipping doses would lead to w/d...they still really don't have that mental need for the medication. A physical one, sure, because of course they don't want to have to experience w/ds. Besides the w/d, they can just walk away from it, and never look back, never having a need or interest in tsking those pills again...whereas an addict has to struggle with those desires and cravings for the rest of their life.
The mental and behavioral aspect of an addiction is what differentiates the two. The two terms are often used interchangeably, where is where a lot of confusion comes from, IMO.
Both are issues that need addressed, but even that is appraoched differently. A person who is dependent doesn't need the aftercare, doesn't need to explore why they are taking the meds...they just need help getting off of them when the time comes.
I think this is a great discussion, I feel strongly that there needs to be more awareness and understanding about the differences between the two. I think people who are just dependent need to be sure they're not being treated as if they have an addiction. Like,I personally strongly disagree with Suboxone being used for someone who is only dependent. ACTUALLY, Sub docs should NOT be treating them, as there is very specific criteria a patient has to meet in order to be accepted for sub treatment...and some of those criteria involve the addictive history and behaviors...which would not be present in a person who is only dependent. I never saw any patients like that in the clinic I worked for. The doc I worled with took those criteria seriously. One of the guidelines is (or used to be) that a person had to be abusing drugs for at least 12 months...she was adamant about that, unless a person was very close. If a person had only been abusing opiates for a couple months, she told them that sub treatment was not appropriate for them.
And, lastly it shouldn't be about one (dependency vs addiction) being "better" or "worse" than the other (as we see a lot of times in people's attitudes), they're just different. Apples and oranges.