Aa
Just startd suboxine, want to quit
I had my first 4mg of suboxone yesterday, 27 hours after my last vicodin. I had tapered V down only over a week, taking 22.5 mgs daily for 4 days, then 15 mg the last two days. After 7 months of taking 30 mgs, my withdrawal symptoms were surprisingly mild. But I’d consulted with the doc the day before and signed on. He seemed a little surprised at the mild symptoms but had me start the sub and I went along because of course the last thing I want is serious withdrawals! So the sub gave me a high that was okay briefly then I felt overdosed for hours; nausea, vomiting, dizzy – haven’t felt that stoned since the 60’s and I was not happy. I've since been reading a lot on the internet and am amazed at how much info was left out of the initial consultation. I did not fully understand what I was getting into when I signed on. On day two the doc had me take 2 mg suboxone with same awful side effects. I have not taken anything today and am feeling okay. Doc says I'll probably have withdrawals tomorrow. My question is about stopping the suboxone after only two doses and going ahead through withdrawal with the help of prescribed ativan and colondine. The suboxone has scared me and feels like overkill in my situation. The doc said he'd never seen an addict with such a sensitivity to the suboxone, and I said well now you have and will ask when I see him Monday if perhaps he should reevaluate my treatment plan. Any comments and guidance is welcome.
To Henry and all who have posted, thank you. I'll do my best here. When I first went to the doc it was for addiction counseling/consultation. I'd read about sub on the doc's site, but had no idea if it was what I needed. My life has not "yet" gotten out of control but I wanted help before it did, including individual and group therapy. I quit drinking 20 years ago with the sudden realization that I could lose everything over out-of-control weekend binge drinking. I've never missed it. But I have not been able to let go of the hold opiates have over me. I'd gotten vicodin in the past for cramps and other ailments but I took them as needed and moved on. This time is very different because it has been 7 months and I'm having a hard time imagining life without the pills. I found a psychologist specializing in substance abuse, but am on her waiting list. So when I found an addiction recovery center nearby I made an appointment right away. The doc convinced me that this would be the answer to all my problems - and in all fairness, it's what I wanted to hear (not necessarily the subs, but a non-judgmental physician confident he could help). Henry - in first post, I stated I started off with 4 mg, then 2 mg the second day. I appreciate your explanation of withdrawal - you lost me a little, but I got what I needed - thank you. You also mention docs going off textbook examples - well, you nailed this doc on that. He hardly looked at all the forms I filled out and seemed inpatient when I tried to interject anything about me. I left thinking, okay, he thinks all addicts are the same so to him there's no point in getting bogged down in individual stories. Of course there are loads of common threads but I ignored that red flag when I saw it. Anyway, I've digressed, but it's been helpful being able to share. I've thought about flushing the subs so I'm not tempted to use any when withdrawals likely start tomorrow, but that fear of how bad 7 months of use might be is still with me, so they're still in the bottle - for now. Warm regards to you all.
Yeah i agree with the others, suboxone is not right for you in your case. It may do worse for you than good. You will be fine just dont take anymore, it wont make u experience worse withdrawal than you were already feeling so dont worry. You will make it, just drink alot of water and get vitamins! good luck
Dope! I forgot to answer your original question!
Sure you may have wd's in a day or two, but these are not coming from the sub. People often think that wd's are the effect of the opiates leaving your body... once they are out the wd's are gone.
This is not the case. When we abuse drugs (opiates specifically) our brains stop producing endorphins, our natural morphine. The body can not distinguish our DOC opiates from our own, so when we take in our DOC on a regular basis, our brains think "Hey less work for me, Im not gunna put out my own endorphins, if they are already showing up" The longer the abuse, the further into foreclosure our endorphin factory becomes.
When we stop the opiates, as they gradually leave the receptors in our brains, our own bodies are not taking over. That factory is empty remember? Those exposed receptors start firing off all kinds of responses to our central nervous system to tell us something is wrong. To try and get that factory working again. This only comes with time, and the longer we let that factory stay dormant, the harder and longer it takes to get it working again! Enter Post Acute withdrawal syndrome!
Suboxone halts the wd process... wherever you are in that stage. And maintains it there. Thus giving you a clear and level head to fix the things in your life that need fixing. When we are strong enough to handle detox and living life on lifes terms (Using all the tools we learned of in aftercare) We detox off the sub.
Any wd's we experience are directly related to the length of time that we abused. They pick up right where they left off so to speak. Which is why different people have different withdrawals when coming off sub. For some its a nightmare, and for some its not as bad.
So you may or may not experience wd's, but I assure you that anything you do experience will be from your hydro use, not the sub. :-)
Hope I didnt lose you there. :-P
Henry
Sure you may have wd's in a day or two, but these are not coming from the sub. People often think that wd's are the effect of the opiates leaving your body... once they are out the wd's are gone.
This is not the case. When we abuse drugs (opiates specifically) our brains stop producing endorphins, our natural morphine. The body can not distinguish our DOC opiates from our own, so when we take in our DOC on a regular basis, our brains think "Hey less work for me, Im not gunna put out my own endorphins, if they are already showing up" The longer the abuse, the further into foreclosure our endorphin factory becomes.
When we stop the opiates, as they gradually leave the receptors in our brains, our own bodies are not taking over. That factory is empty remember? Those exposed receptors start firing off all kinds of responses to our central nervous system to tell us something is wrong. To try and get that factory working again. This only comes with time, and the longer we let that factory stay dormant, the harder and longer it takes to get it working again! Enter Post Acute withdrawal syndrome!
Suboxone halts the wd process... wherever you are in that stage. And maintains it there. Thus giving you a clear and level head to fix the things in your life that need fixing. When we are strong enough to handle detox and living life on lifes terms (Using all the tools we learned of in aftercare) We detox off the sub.
Any wd's we experience are directly related to the length of time that we abused. They pick up right where they left off so to speak. Which is why different people have different withdrawals when coming off sub. For some its a nightmare, and for some its not as bad.
So you may or may not experience wd's, but I assure you that anything you do experience will be from your hydro use, not the sub. :-)
Hope I didnt lose you there. :-P
Henry
I am a huge advocate for Buprenorphine treatment, however with that said, that is only when it is used in the appropriate applications, and with the right council and education to the patient!
The fact is, is when most addicts lean to Opiate Replacement Therapy in the forms of Methadone, or Suboxone- they know that its their last resort! They have no need to question their decision, they know its life or death!
The fact that you have questioned your decision IMO, answers your original question right there! :-) And I would have to concur just from reading your two posts.
The amount or the drug of your choice should not be the evaluating factor in whether sub treatment is right for you. However the questions that should be asked are:
Has your life become unmanageable?
Has the quality of life decreased for you and the ones you love?
Have you tried other means of detoxing, and recovery?
What type of aftercare/recovery are you going to get while in treatment?
My biggest gripe with suboxone is the lack of patient education. These docs are going off textbook examples, not real life situations! Your case is a prime example- dosing by clinical standars instead of listening to his patient! Mind if I ask what dose he started you on?
One reason even the 2mgs hit you so hard, is buprenorphine is an agonist/antagonist medication. Meaning its capable of stimulating opiate receptors, as well as reversing the effects thus causing a withdrawal like syndrome. At lower doses, bupe acts more like a full opitae, and the euphoria and other opiate symptoms are stronger. At higher doses, it becomes somewhat more of an antagonist with its blockade and ceiling effect!
Its terrible that such a lifesaving medication is being prescribed the way it is. I was on sub for two years, and was told nothing about it from my doc. Its sad that patients are left to do their own preliminary research to learn the pros and cons of their meds.
I wish you nothing but the best of luck! :-)
Henry
The fact is, is when most addicts lean to Opiate Replacement Therapy in the forms of Methadone, or Suboxone- they know that its their last resort! They have no need to question their decision, they know its life or death!
The fact that you have questioned your decision IMO, answers your original question right there! :-) And I would have to concur just from reading your two posts.
The amount or the drug of your choice should not be the evaluating factor in whether sub treatment is right for you. However the questions that should be asked are:
Has your life become unmanageable?
Has the quality of life decreased for you and the ones you love?
Have you tried other means of detoxing, and recovery?
What type of aftercare/recovery are you going to get while in treatment?
My biggest gripe with suboxone is the lack of patient education. These docs are going off textbook examples, not real life situations! Your case is a prime example- dosing by clinical standars instead of listening to his patient! Mind if I ask what dose he started you on?
One reason even the 2mgs hit you so hard, is buprenorphine is an agonist/antagonist medication. Meaning its capable of stimulating opiate receptors, as well as reversing the effects thus causing a withdrawal like syndrome. At lower doses, bupe acts more like a full opitae, and the euphoria and other opiate symptoms are stronger. At higher doses, it becomes somewhat more of an antagonist with its blockade and ceiling effect!
Its terrible that such a lifesaving medication is being prescribed the way it is. I was on sub for two years, and was told nothing about it from my doc. Its sad that patients are left to do their own preliminary research to learn the pros and cons of their meds.
I wish you nothing but the best of luck! :-)
Henry
Thank you for your response. I've been thinking that having the side effects were a gift, showing me right away that suboxone is not for me. The last few days have also felt like I've hit a kind of bottom and has reinforced my commitment to be drug free. I'm going to take your advice and tell him I am stopping. Thank you - and best to you.
I am sorry that you had side effects but it is probably for the best. In my opinion you should never have been put on it to detox off of 15 mg of Vicodin. that is a low dose and you could have just went ct. I think you should tell your doctor it simply is not for you and tell him you want to stop. If any at all, your physical withdrawal will be mild.
I hope it works out for you.
I hope it works out for you.
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