Aa
Open thread
I am sorry this isn't a question, but we need room to post.
I would LOVE to go to Amsterdam for the reason Pammy just stated. They also have mushroom soup there....YUMMY! Well, maybe not, but fun none the less.
I think taking a trip to Amsterdam without sampling what the local "coffee shops" have to offer is a wasted trip. If you give me your tickets I will put them to go use. But them again I am a hippy chick at heart. Have fun and smoke up for crying out loud! Pammy
Good luck to you and grace and safety through your journey. My eldest brother has visited Amsterdam on business several times, and says that it is indeed a lovely country. Sadly for people like us, the culture and attitudes towards drug use there are, however, very open and encouraging, which will likely take some acclimation by you, but I am certain you can do it. We do not need to follow the paths the World sets before us if we are confident and secure in our own ways. Again, all blessings upon you as you go towards this new, exciting stage of your life. Please let us know, as you are able, how the adventure goes.
Peace,
Kurt
Peace,
Kurt
This is a note of thanks for helping me get clean. I came here many, many times in the initial W/D Hell, craving, and left feeling I could make it. And so far I have!
Tonight I leave with my cousin, an elementary school art teacher, and a Van Gogh fanatic, for Amsterdam. When we planned this trip last year, I worried- even then- about pills, as OTC European meds did not entice me. Now, I am ecstatic! I am not worried about getting pills, sneaking pills through customs or anything else!
I have never liked greenage so the "Brownie Cafes" (or whatever they are called in Amsterdam) won't be a temptation.
We are staying in Amsterdam and environs through until September. My cousin will teach me a lot of art, esp. Van Gogh history, and I can't wait to learn experience it all! I know no art!
Unless I come across an internet cafe, I wont be visiting this special board again until I am settled. We are moving in the fall, so it may be awhile.
I am traveling without my laptop for the first time ever! I feel absolutely free from my primary addictions: pills and the net. I like browsing the net, but spend too much time online.
It will be so nice to experience the real world! real museums! real everything! and all straight! My cousin is older than dirt and straight as an arrow. It will be fun!
I am soo excited and thank you all for your support and words of wisdom these past months. I wish for you all many happy days. See you in a few months!
rodewc~
Tonight I leave with my cousin, an elementary school art teacher, and a Van Gogh fanatic, for Amsterdam. When we planned this trip last year, I worried- even then- about pills, as OTC European meds did not entice me. Now, I am ecstatic! I am not worried about getting pills, sneaking pills through customs or anything else!
I have never liked greenage so the "Brownie Cafes" (or whatever they are called in Amsterdam) won't be a temptation.
We are staying in Amsterdam and environs through until September. My cousin will teach me a lot of art, esp. Van Gogh history, and I can't wait to learn experience it all! I know no art!
Unless I come across an internet cafe, I wont be visiting this special board again until I am settled. We are moving in the fall, so it may be awhile.
I am traveling without my laptop for the first time ever! I feel absolutely free from my primary addictions: pills and the net. I like browsing the net, but spend too much time online.
It will be so nice to experience the real world! real museums! real everything! and all straight! My cousin is older than dirt and straight as an arrow. It will be fun!
I am soo excited and thank you all for your support and words of wisdom these past months. I wish for you all many happy days. See you in a few months!
rodewc~
Yes, MrM. At the time, I got the same med from both docs, but each doctor knew how much the other perscribed. I didn't think it mattered, 'cause the docs didn't mention it. The internist based his scrip on how much the podiatrist had perscribed. It is moot because I am getting meds from neither now, and I hope I don't ever need (or want) them. Thx for the info; I will tell my friends who see 2 docs. They (the friends) are not running a scam though, to my knowledge.
rwc-
rwc-
Being you go by thomas Ill assume the recipe is yours. I am tapering methadone but wanted to tell you that even though Im not using it for cold turkey it has done wonders for me. Im sure my body was depleted of many vitamins that us addicts forget to take. My boyfriend is the most stubborn man alive and hates vitamins but confessed your recipe is helping him to feel better.At any rate just wanted to show my appreciation and give a many thanks to you. Doner
I clearly wrote that if you misrepresent yourself to the pharmacist (use maiden name that you don't normally use anymore, wrong birthdate, or something to fraudulantly obtain meds), that is illegal. And, it is. You can go to two different docs. BUT, you can't get the SAME controlled med from two or three different docs. And, you can't get different opioids (Duragesic from one and Oxycontin from another) from two or more different docs. That goes for benzos or whatever. That is illegal. I am sorry, but I don't see anything confusing about that. If you go to a pain clinic and you sign a contract, they clearly stipulate you are not to get narcs from another doc. I do know if you go to a different doc, they usually have you disclose any meds you are currently taking. If you disclose you are currently taking Vicodin, I am sure you won't get a script for that from the other doc. Now, you can get prescriptions from two different docs. I mean, blood pressure meds from your cardiologist and antibiotics from your GP. That is ok, of course.
The thread below was closed. I agree w/ Jack. If you go to rehab w/ an open mind, it can only help. If you have chronic pain, you will garner skills for taking yr meds responsibly at Rehab. I am convinced (after reading @ the many obstacles you have already overcome) that you are a strong person who will work things out for the best.
rwc~
rwc~
If you recieve Vicodin from a podiatrist and an internist at the same time, that is illegal.
Some friends, as well as I, used 2 diff pharmacies and 2 docs. Two of my buddies still do. They, and I, were perecribed the same med, albeit for 2 different ailments. Each of us filled the script at a pharmacy convenient to the doctor's office. The total amount of meds perscribed by the 2 docs did not exceed the amt allowed for daily consumation. I did not think this was illegal, nor did I "hide" any info from the pharmacist. Your replies confused me, actually made me paranoid as I was not aware it was illegal to see an internist and a podiatrist, for example. Both treat different ills. I am not abusing meds now, but I would always choose the pharmacy most convenient to me timewise.
~rwc
~rwc
I agree with you. I have been addicted to a lot of pain meds over the years and ultram has been the worse. I had been clean for 15 years and was very careful what I took and a new doctor perscribed ultram and said I could take up to 8 a day if needed. He said there was no downside and it was actually better to take that instead of advil or tylenol. Like I said yesterday the rest is history. I was on 16 a day at the end of three years. I know what you are going through.
It has been 4 months now and I'm starting to feel normal. It was hell! I agree with the Thomas recipe and I wish I had known about it. The only thing that was different with me and I know everyone is different. I took ativan and ambien for a week because it was so bad and the Dr. was worried about my bp. I only had enough for a week and this was the 2nd week of withdrawls. It did relax me some, but it actually triggered my withdrawls and made it worse afterwards. Like I said everyone is different. I tappered down to about six ultram a day and I could not go any lower. It took me 7 months to do that and finally I just quit so I went cold turkey after 6 but that was better than 16. If you possibly can, taper lower than I did and it won't be so bad. I will be thinking of you and hang in there, because if you prolong, it will just get worse. Take it from an expert.
Take care,
Sandy
It has been 4 months now and I'm starting to feel normal. It was hell! I agree with the Thomas recipe and I wish I had known about it. The only thing that was different with me and I know everyone is different. I took ativan and ambien for a week because it was so bad and the Dr. was worried about my bp. I only had enough for a week and this was the 2nd week of withdrawls. It did relax me some, but it actually triggered my withdrawls and made it worse afterwards. Like I said everyone is different. I tappered down to about six ultram a day and I could not go any lower. It took me 7 months to do that and finally I just quit so I went cold turkey after 6 but that was better than 16. If you possibly can, taper lower than I did and it won't be so bad. I will be thinking of you and hang in there, because if you prolong, it will just get worse. Take it from an expert.
Take care,
Sandy
Today is a new day. My b/friend and I are having the grand opening of the business we lost do to pills. We left a bunch of unpaid bills so it took us awhile to catch up. Printed an ad in the paper last week and lots of people have been stopping in to check it out.So it looks good so far.Please eveyone pray to their own god that we make this business go.It brought in tons of cash before we just invested it in the wrong place. Anyway wish us luck. Im going to take the dog for a walk on this early morning and pray we can make this a new start.Good morning to all and hoping you have a wonderul painless day.Melissa
Thank you JD for the recipe. It is the weakness that is the worse,although I haven't been able to sleep and it is getting worse! I don't think I can get benzo's. I was lucky to get clonodine. I can't tell yet, but does it help? It dosen't help me sleep thats for sure.
Golden, I agree with this **** about ultram is bullshit! I have 4 yrs clean of 5yr dope habbit, 2yr meth habbit, drinking, weed, coke (never really liked it though) and whatever else! I'm put on this **** and told non narcotic. Once it triggers me, I'm taking like 15 a day and can't get off the stuff. I feel I have a good chance this time. I told on myself and got help after many attempts to quit on my own. I think the web is a great idea and If I can help in anyway let me know. There are more out there and more to come I'm sure.
I want to be a normal person again! KimH
Golden, I agree with this **** about ultram is bullshit! I have 4 yrs clean of 5yr dope habbit, 2yr meth habbit, drinking, weed, coke (never really liked it though) and whatever else! I'm put on this **** and told non narcotic. Once it triggers me, I'm taking like 15 a day and can't get off the stuff. I feel I have a good chance this time. I told on myself and got help after many attempts to quit on my own. I think the web is a great idea and If I can help in anyway let me know. There are more out there and more to come I'm sure.
I want to be a normal person again! KimH
If you're doing a cold turkey detox off opiates such as Vicodin, wait until the more gross symptoms -- sweats, cramps, nausea, runs -- have stopped before using the L-Tyrosine. The thinking is this: In addition to dopamine, L-Tyrosine is metabolized into norepinephrin -- brain adrenalin. This works against your efforts to sedate yourself to ride out the initial withdrawal symptoms.
After acute withdrawal has abated, you're going to feel like a rancid mop -- total lack of physical, mental and emotional energy -- because of your dopamine, norepinephrin and endorphin (natural morphine) deficits. It's at this time that the L-Tyrosine with B6 will help you bring your own ass back to life.
Take a sufficient dose, and you'll feel the difference in less than 1 hour. And I mean really feel it -- not a placebo effect "feel-better" but an undeniable kick in the ass. If you're coming off a tall habit and feel absolutely brain dead, 3000 to 4000 mgs will lift the fog in 30 to 40 minutes. It's quite dramatic the first time you experience it. It's not like a caffeine wire, but more of a sudden clearing of the mind and a flood of confidence and optimism -- and physical energy.
It's this physical energy from L-Tyrosine that you need to put to work to get out of the house and into some kind of light aerobic activity, such as fast walking, bicycling, lap swim (or stair master and cross-country ski machine) -- whatever you can manage. You won't be able to do much at first and your addict self will hate it. But get 20 to 30 minutes of sustained aerobic activity (consistently elevated respiration and heart rate, upper and lower body involvement) and you'll re-start the process of making endorphins. And, as the good Dr. Bozian will tell you, you'll be establishing a healthy, revitalizing behavior in place of your drugging behavior.
As for producing too much dopamine, we should all have that problem! I know of no such occurance or condition associated with L-Tyrosine. Generally, if you take a dose too high for you, you'll get something akin to the "coffee jitters." Just lower the dose a bit on the following morning.
How long to take it? As long as it makes you feel good and helps you sustain your recovery. My good friend hippee takes it every morning. L-Tyrosine is not a drug. It's an amino acid found in our daily diet -- dairy, meat, poultry and other foods.
One thing I need to say since we're all drug fiends around these parts: unlike our pharmaceutical treats, taking more L-Tyrosine more often doesn't help. In fact, take a significant dose of L-Tyrosine more than once a day and you'll give yourself a massive, nauseating migraine-like headache. Take one big dose in the morning and it will last through the day. Some people take big doses immediately after acute withdrawal and scale the dose down as their recovery progresses. Read the Recipe text for instructions on starting L-Tyrosine.
Pick up pure L-Tyrosine 500 mgs capsules at the health food store (in the US), or get it on the web if in Canada. Remember to take 100mgs of vitamin B6 (in capsule) with the L-Tyrosine (on an empty stomach) to promote absorption. Try to wait an hour before eating breakfast. Hold off on the morning coffee until you feel the L-Tyrosine kick in. You probably won't want the coffee! Good luck.
Thomas
After acute withdrawal has abated, you're going to feel like a rancid mop -- total lack of physical, mental and emotional energy -- because of your dopamine, norepinephrin and endorphin (natural morphine) deficits. It's at this time that the L-Tyrosine with B6 will help you bring your own ass back to life.
Take a sufficient dose, and you'll feel the difference in less than 1 hour. And I mean really feel it -- not a placebo effect "feel-better" but an undeniable kick in the ass. If you're coming off a tall habit and feel absolutely brain dead, 3000 to 4000 mgs will lift the fog in 30 to 40 minutes. It's quite dramatic the first time you experience it. It's not like a caffeine wire, but more of a sudden clearing of the mind and a flood of confidence and optimism -- and physical energy.
It's this physical energy from L-Tyrosine that you need to put to work to get out of the house and into some kind of light aerobic activity, such as fast walking, bicycling, lap swim (or stair master and cross-country ski machine) -- whatever you can manage. You won't be able to do much at first and your addict self will hate it. But get 20 to 30 minutes of sustained aerobic activity (consistently elevated respiration and heart rate, upper and lower body involvement) and you'll re-start the process of making endorphins. And, as the good Dr. Bozian will tell you, you'll be establishing a healthy, revitalizing behavior in place of your drugging behavior.
As for producing too much dopamine, we should all have that problem! I know of no such occurance or condition associated with L-Tyrosine. Generally, if you take a dose too high for you, you'll get something akin to the "coffee jitters." Just lower the dose a bit on the following morning.
How long to take it? As long as it makes you feel good and helps you sustain your recovery. My good friend hippee takes it every morning. L-Tyrosine is not a drug. It's an amino acid found in our daily diet -- dairy, meat, poultry and other foods.
One thing I need to say since we're all drug fiends around these parts: unlike our pharmaceutical treats, taking more L-Tyrosine more often doesn't help. In fact, take a significant dose of L-Tyrosine more than once a day and you'll give yourself a massive, nauseating migraine-like headache. Take one big dose in the morning and it will last through the day. Some people take big doses immediately after acute withdrawal and scale the dose down as their recovery progresses. Read the Recipe text for instructions on starting L-Tyrosine.
Pick up pure L-Tyrosine 500 mgs capsules at the health food store (in the US), or get it on the web if in Canada. Remember to take 100mgs of vitamin B6 (in capsule) with the L-Tyrosine (on an empty stomach) to promote absorption. Try to wait an hour before eating breakfast. Hold off on the morning coffee until you feel the L-Tyrosine kick in. You probably won't want the coffee! Good luck.
Thomas
Tramadol withdrawal is hell .... I am still in the middle of it and hope I will make it. I would say to use a stable dose ... regularly and cut it slowly (thats what I did) I switched to vicodin (very small dose) 16 days ago ... and when I get to 21 days off ultram, I will do WD from the vikes.
This drug was the biggest fraud perpetrated on the public since Watergate ... it has 2 antidepressants in it ... symptoms are dizziness, sweats, sleeplessness ... and alot more. Read about paxil withdrawal or effexor withdrawal .... very similar. The good news is it can be done. I'm planning to start a board for ultram victims as soon as I am actually out of the woods ... in the meantime email me at ***@**** .... I can help you ... Goldie
This drug was the biggest fraud perpetrated on the public since Watergate ... it has 2 antidepressants in it ... symptoms are dizziness, sweats, sleeplessness ... and alot more. Read about paxil withdrawal or effexor withdrawal .... very similar. The good news is it can be done. I'm planning to start a board for ultram victims as soon as I am actually out of the woods ... in the meantime email me at ***@**** .... I can help you ... Goldie
Thomas Detox Recipe
PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas
This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.
If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.
For the Recipe, You'll need:
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).
How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.
During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.
At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.
With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.
As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.
PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.
PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas
This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.
If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.
For the Recipe, You'll need:
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).
How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.
During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.
At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.
With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.
As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.
PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.
You should do 7mg tomorrow, then 6mg, then 5mg, then 4mg, then 3mg, then 2mg, then 2mg again, then 1mg. I would say after that, you will experience the least amount of withdrawals possible with what you have available to you. I am not going to say how bad it will be because it is impossible for me to say that. But, it will be less than if you went cold turkey from the oxy when you stopped it. I know that for a fact. You are going to have discomfort. Unfortunately, no one gets a free ride. But, you should do fine. What is positive is the fact you are feeling ok now being on such a small dose of the methadone. That is very reassuring.
Can you email me at ***@****? If you don't mind, I would like to "discuss" something with you. Thanks.
I have to agree with motox. It doesn't sound like he is coming off of cocaine to me. Cocaine doesn't produce physical withdrawal symptoms like that.
You guys are gonna think I am nuts, but after quitting the opiates, has anyone had coffee ( my current God) trigger the desire to get high again? Can 10 million addicts be wrong? just curious..
Maybe some of you are familiar to this routine of doctor shopping and hitting differant phamacies how about useing a differant B-day when picking up a perscription because you know if you use your b-day the pharmacies will see you just picked some up and should still have some. Tha pharmacies in CAlif. are all connected to the same link. My ques. is: Is any of this Illegal???? I have heard conflicting stories.
It most certainly is. Forget about the birthday. Just doing what you are doing is illegal, minus the birthday thing. It is fraud, any way you slice it. And, they don't consider obtaining a cds fraudulantly to be small potatos. By the way, pharmacy computers are nationally linked. A pharmacy here in NJ (where I live) can find out if I had a script filled in Delaware or whatever other state. Misrepresenting yourself to the pharmacist is illegal (using other birthdate, maiden name, etc.). Of course, the charges would vary according to what it is you obtain.....non-scheduled vs schedule II, schedule II vs schedule III, etc.
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