Aa
Oxycontin tapering vs. Suboxone
Hello folks,
I am somewhat surprised to find myself talking on a bulletin board about being an oxycontin addict, but oh well.
I have some chronic knee osteoarthritis. I was reading an article on it, last year, when up popped an ad talking about an osteoarthritis clinical trial. I clicked on it, took the survey, and ended up getting enrolled.
The way it worked was 1/3 of the subjects got some new experimental medication that was an opiate, but supposedly freer of side-effects including addiction. 1/3 got oxycontin, and 1/3 got placebo. I was sure from the first dose that I got one of the non-placebo drugs.
About a month in, my curiosity got the better of me and I broke open a capsule to see what was inside. Inside were small round tablets I was able to identify off the internet as oxycontin. I read about how people abuse them by crushing snorting, and, surprise, surprise, decided to try it myself. My dose kept being gradually increased until over the last few weeks it was 100 mg per day.
I've been on it now for 4 1/2 weeks. I went in last Thursday for my regular appointment at the clinic, and the nurse I've been dealing announced, to my great shock, that they wouldn't be issuing any more study medication, and essentially I was on my own. I had previously asked her and she had told me that, yes, I would be tapered off the drugs once the study was over, but last week she seemed to just be telling me to go off and enjoy my withdrawal.
I begged and pleaded until finally she went and got one of the doctors (not the one involved in the study, and he rather grudgingly gave me a scrip for 20 x 20mg, with instructions to take one or two per day, as needed.
Trying to stay on 40 mg was murder, and I didn't make it. I was sick as a dog with all the symptoms I've now learned go with withdrawal, including chills, muscle twitches, horrible pain in the stomach, diahrrea, and vomiting.
Monday I did make it down to 40 mg, but went to the doctor's office, and this time saw the main doctor, and he wrote me a scrip for 30 x 10g to help taper. I confess I am finding it hard not to cheat and go back up with the dose, and yesterday went back up to 60 mg.
I have heard a lot about Suxoxone. Would it be better to get off Oxy via Suboxone or to keep trying to taper down? I was proud of myself because this doctor wanted to offer me a scrip for 60 x 20 mg, but I adjusted it downward. That much and any slight self-control I've got going would have flown out the window.
What do folks think is the right way to approach getting off the stuff, for a guy in my situation? I realize that by some standards my dose wasn't that high and I haven't been taking it was long as many, but the withdrawal was VERY real.
I am not going to go looking for street drugs of lying to doctors to try to get more. I know I'm done with it, other than the approximately 400 mg I now have left.
Any help or thoughts would be appreciated.
Richard
I am somewhat surprised to find myself talking on a bulletin board about being an oxycontin addict, but oh well.
I have some chronic knee osteoarthritis. I was reading an article on it, last year, when up popped an ad talking about an osteoarthritis clinical trial. I clicked on it, took the survey, and ended up getting enrolled.
The way it worked was 1/3 of the subjects got some new experimental medication that was an opiate, but supposedly freer of side-effects including addiction. 1/3 got oxycontin, and 1/3 got placebo. I was sure from the first dose that I got one of the non-placebo drugs.
About a month in, my curiosity got the better of me and I broke open a capsule to see what was inside. Inside were small round tablets I was able to identify off the internet as oxycontin. I read about how people abuse them by crushing snorting, and, surprise, surprise, decided to try it myself. My dose kept being gradually increased until over the last few weeks it was 100 mg per day.
I've been on it now for 4 1/2 weeks. I went in last Thursday for my regular appointment at the clinic, and the nurse I've been dealing announced, to my great shock, that they wouldn't be issuing any more study medication, and essentially I was on my own. I had previously asked her and she had told me that, yes, I would be tapered off the drugs once the study was over, but last week she seemed to just be telling me to go off and enjoy my withdrawal.
I begged and pleaded until finally she went and got one of the doctors (not the one involved in the study, and he rather grudgingly gave me a scrip for 20 x 20mg, with instructions to take one or two per day, as needed.
Trying to stay on 40 mg was murder, and I didn't make it. I was sick as a dog with all the symptoms I've now learned go with withdrawal, including chills, muscle twitches, horrible pain in the stomach, diahrrea, and vomiting.
Monday I did make it down to 40 mg, but went to the doctor's office, and this time saw the main doctor, and he wrote me a scrip for 30 x 10g to help taper. I confess I am finding it hard not to cheat and go back up with the dose, and yesterday went back up to 60 mg.
I have heard a lot about Suxoxone. Would it be better to get off Oxy via Suboxone or to keep trying to taper down? I was proud of myself because this doctor wanted to offer me a scrip for 60 x 20 mg, but I adjusted it downward. That much and any slight self-control I've got going would have flown out the window.
What do folks think is the right way to approach getting off the stuff, for a guy in my situation? I realize that by some standards my dose wasn't that high and I haven't been taking it was long as many, but the withdrawal was VERY real.
I am not going to go looking for street drugs of lying to doctors to try to get more. I know I'm done with it, other than the approximately 400 mg I now have left.
Any help or thoughts would be appreciated.
Richard
I really don't think you have been on it long enough to need to take Suboxone. I would attempt tapering first. And then if you are unsuccessful call a doctor for Suboxone.
Suboxone is also an opiate so it also must be tapered and some people do have withdrawals with it. You may be able to just do this once by getting of the oxy by tapering, instead of starting another drug that you have to taper to get off of.. You see what I am saying?
Suboxone is also an opiate so it also must be tapered and some people do have withdrawals with it. You may be able to just do this once by getting of the oxy by tapering, instead of starting another drug that you have to taper to get off of.. You see what I am saying?
one thing to think about is if you dont sick with the taper you will wind up out at a high dose and the w/ds will be much worse. i do undertand you r situation. i could not taper cuz if i had pils i took them all. i went cold turkey off 120-180 mgs. the w/ds were deadly for about a week and then things got better gradually. i am now 4 months clean and almost back to my old self. hope this helps. let me know if i can help you in anyway
cathy
cathy
Do you have someone u can confide in to dole the pills out to you daily? I ended up doing this..I know it sounds very weak but it was the only way i could do it...i taper 10 days and quit...get the thomas recipe and amino acid protocol/and the tapering article from the health pages under DISCUSSION...I would hat to have to go on sub after a month of use...then have to wd from that...make a plan let us know if u need help...keep posting
I am a doc who has also had his problems. seems to me that the STUDY caused you to become addicted to oxycontin. Therefore, since they created the problem, they should be held to resolve the problem.
The easienst way would be a rapid taper with Suboxone [7-12 days].End of story.
If you keep acquiring oxy, then temptation is going to fuel your new acquired addiction. You should raise the question of them SENDIING YOU TO AN ADDICTION CLINIC TO TREAT THIS IF THEY ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE DRUG.
The easienst way would be a rapid taper with Suboxone [7-12 days].End of story.
If you keep acquiring oxy, then temptation is going to fuel your new acquired addiction. You should raise the question of them SENDIING YOU TO AN ADDICTION CLINIC TO TREAT THIS IF THEY ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE DRUG.
I have decided that I do need to get my wife involved in doling out the pills. Although I made it to 40 mg two days, I went up to 5O mg yesterday and then 60 today. In other words, I've been partying, not tapering.
I now have exactly 470 mg left. My plan, since I've cheated, is to go to two days at 50, four days at 40, three days at 30, 4 at 20, and then to 10 mg for three days until I'm done. I'm deliberately frontloading the wd problems a bit, because of my schedule, in which I want to be pretty functional the next week or so but have less on my calendar after that, so if I need to be home and sick somewhat during those days it's easier. The drop from 40 to 20 is the part that I expect will be the toughest, but then again I have no direct experience of any of this.
For the doctor who wrote about the clinic getting me addicted, let me say here that I have had previous problems in my life with drugs and alcohol, and I did have ample notification that I was going to be taking opiate type drugs (even if they study drug was alleged to be less addictive). They're idiots, to be honest, but so am I. But should they pay for a suboxone treatment if I need it? I would say yes. I'm hoping I can just taper off. I want nothing more than to never see one of these damned pills again.
Richard
I now have exactly 470 mg left. My plan, since I've cheated, is to go to two days at 50, four days at 40, three days at 30, 4 at 20, and then to 10 mg for three days until I'm done. I'm deliberately frontloading the wd problems a bit, because of my schedule, in which I want to be pretty functional the next week or so but have less on my calendar after that, so if I need to be home and sick somewhat during those days it's easier. The drop from 40 to 20 is the part that I expect will be the toughest, but then again I have no direct experience of any of this.
For the doctor who wrote about the clinic getting me addicted, let me say here that I have had previous problems in my life with drugs and alcohol, and I did have ample notification that I was going to be taking opiate type drugs (even if they study drug was alleged to be less addictive). They're idiots, to be honest, but so am I. But should they pay for a suboxone treatment if I need it? I would say yes. I'm hoping I can just taper off. I want nothing more than to never see one of these damned pills again.
Richard
By the way, in rereading my initial post, I realize I made a mistake. I have been on this medication for four and a half months, not weeks. I can see how some would have thought this was a fairly minor dependence, but it isn't. I'm completely hooked, physically and psychologically.
Richard
Richard
if your an addict wishing to get off opiates your qualified for suboxone treatment...
but do try a taper or even cold turkey first...it is best to try it on your own, some people are successful with tapers or CT...41/2 months isnt too long of a stint, but you say you had problems before, was it with opiates?
addiction is addiction at any rate, and is devastating to ones life at any length of time...
just make sure you learn all you can about suboxone BEFORE you make your decision, education is the key here...read, learn and ask everything you can BEFORE you decide which route you will take...
as far as the study paying for it...it wouldnt hurt to ask.
good luck to you!!
but do try a taper or even cold turkey first...it is best to try it on your own, some people are successful with tapers or CT...41/2 months isnt too long of a stint, but you say you had problems before, was it with opiates?
addiction is addiction at any rate, and is devastating to ones life at any length of time...
just make sure you learn all you can about suboxone BEFORE you make your decision, education is the key here...read, learn and ask everything you can BEFORE you decide which route you will take...
as far as the study paying for it...it wouldnt hurt to ask.
good luck to you!!
To wait2long,
I had my first reduction yesterday, from 50 to 40 mg. I thought it would be fairly unnoticable, but I was wrong. First I was ridiculously sleepy, and since I didn't have to do anything work-related this morning I just kept sleeping. I think I went over 12 hours. Plus the usual stomach pains and cramping and that kind of stuff that I've had ever since I started lowering my dose.
But today really sucks, even though I've already had 20 mg of my dose. Just no motivation at ALL, freezing cold, runny nose and eyes. I can see why some do it cold turkey. This taper seems like I'll feel crappy much of the time for weeks. But as for now I'm sticking to it because I'm afriad of CT. I'm glad my stint isn't too long. My previous problems were a grab bag of pills and alcohol, including vicodin, but I never experienced anything even remotely like this withdrawal before. Well, I better go stock up on more immodium!
I had my first reduction yesterday, from 50 to 40 mg. I thought it would be fairly unnoticable, but I was wrong. First I was ridiculously sleepy, and since I didn't have to do anything work-related this morning I just kept sleeping. I think I went over 12 hours. Plus the usual stomach pains and cramping and that kind of stuff that I've had ever since I started lowering my dose.
But today really sucks, even though I've already had 20 mg of my dose. Just no motivation at ALL, freezing cold, runny nose and eyes. I can see why some do it cold turkey. This taper seems like I'll feel crappy much of the time for weeks. But as for now I'm sticking to it because I'm afriad of CT. I'm glad my stint isn't too long. My previous problems were a grab bag of pills and alcohol, including vicodin, but I never experienced anything even remotely like this withdrawal before. Well, I better go stock up on more immodium!
if you were snorting and are used to the oxy being fast-acting, you may want to consider breaking the 20mg tabs into 1/4s (you can get a pill cutter at any drugstore) and let yourself come down in samller increments, like 20 -> 15, and even take the 5mg pieces over a period of hours, not all at once. then you have a a steadier amount in the bloodstream and the taper is less miserable.
I am taking 20mgs 3X/day right now, and I am splitting them into 1/2s and taking 10mgs first and then the other 10mgs a couple of hours later. keeps the levels more...level and satisfies that pill-head that wants ti take something every few hours.
I wouldn't split up really high dose pills (80s, for example), but if you're splitting up 20s you're basically getting the same amount of OC as one or two percocet (5 or 10 mgs).
and most important, just accept the fact that you're going to feel uncomfortable.... :(
good luck.
I am taking 20mgs 3X/day right now, and I am splitting them into 1/2s and taking 10mgs first and then the other 10mgs a couple of hours later. keeps the levels more...level and satisfies that pill-head that wants ti take something every few hours.
I wouldn't split up really high dose pills (80s, for example), but if you're splitting up 20s you're basically getting the same amount of OC as one or two percocet (5 or 10 mgs).
and most important, just accept the fact that you're going to feel uncomfortable.... :(
good luck.
Hi Kittykat58,
To be honest, I'm been crushing and snorting my final dose of the day, sometimes my final two. What I've got are 10 mg tabs. The first two I take as directed, because I want the CR aspects to help get me through the day.
Also, since I'm being totally honest, I had a small stash that I took and put in storage, and today I was just sick and tired of being sick and tired, and went to my storage and broke it out. So instead of doing 40 mg today, I did 70 mg. This is obviously a flaw in my plan.
I'm sure every addict who's been through this understands the idea of having some set aside, but of course the very nature of withdrawal leads one to tap into the stash earlier and more often than one wishes. It was my rather naive notion that I would do my full tapering thing, get clean, and then have a few pills left over for future (but rare) times I wanted to just indulge for a night or so. I'm discovering that doesn't work at all.
I have a total now, I think, of about 120 mg in my storage facility. I think I now have about 300 mg that my wife is holding.
Clearly tapering down doesn't work if one jumps up to 70 mg from 40 in the middle of the taper. I'm close to just going to a suboxone doc and doing it that way. I assume they want you to turn in all your remaining stash, something that I would find hard to do. Maybe what I'm heading for is a failed tapering plan that gets rescued by a suboxone taper at the end..
God, this stuff is truly bad juju. I advised some folks I correspond with on addiction issues never to take a single oxycontin even if legitimately prescribed for pain. I went through two rehabs in the 80's for drugs and alcohol and have spend about 18 of the past 23 years clean and sober. Nothing has kicked my but like this stuff, which I did almost as a lark. Today, I just got so depressed at being continually sick and down, and I did get some relief tonight. I'll pay for it tomorrow, assuming I don't cheat again. Madness!
To be honest, I'm been crushing and snorting my final dose of the day, sometimes my final two. What I've got are 10 mg tabs. The first two I take as directed, because I want the CR aspects to help get me through the day.
Also, since I'm being totally honest, I had a small stash that I took and put in storage, and today I was just sick and tired of being sick and tired, and went to my storage and broke it out. So instead of doing 40 mg today, I did 70 mg. This is obviously a flaw in my plan.
I'm sure every addict who's been through this understands the idea of having some set aside, but of course the very nature of withdrawal leads one to tap into the stash earlier and more often than one wishes. It was my rather naive notion that I would do my full tapering thing, get clean, and then have a few pills left over for future (but rare) times I wanted to just indulge for a night or so. I'm discovering that doesn't work at all.
I have a total now, I think, of about 120 mg in my storage facility. I think I now have about 300 mg that my wife is holding.
Clearly tapering down doesn't work if one jumps up to 70 mg from 40 in the middle of the taper. I'm close to just going to a suboxone doc and doing it that way. I assume they want you to turn in all your remaining stash, something that I would find hard to do. Maybe what I'm heading for is a failed tapering plan that gets rescued by a suboxone taper at the end..
God, this stuff is truly bad juju. I advised some folks I correspond with on addiction issues never to take a single oxycontin even if legitimately prescribed for pain. I went through two rehabs in the 80's for drugs and alcohol and have spend about 18 of the past 23 years clean and sober. Nothing has kicked my but like this stuff, which I did almost as a lark. Today, I just got so depressed at being continually sick and down, and I did get some relief tonight. I'll pay for it tomorrow, assuming I don't cheat again. Madness!
I can so relate to your dilemma. I was also addicted to oxys, a large amount and for about three years. The only way for me was cold turkey. Tapering just made me miserable and I wasn't able to stick with it anyway. I've now been clean over a year. My story is still up in my journal. If you have a chance, take a look.
I think some people have to walk through the fire to get to the other side, but it's much better than prolonged agony.
You'll find lots of support here so please stay with us and keep us posted.
Good luck,
Yoda
I think some people have to walk through the fire to get to the other side, but it's much better than prolonged agony.
You'll find lots of support here so please stay with us and keep us posted.
Good luck,
Yoda
I respect your honesty. It will serve you well in whatever path you choose with regard to getting off your dope. My opinion is that you tapered too fast -- 70 -> 40mgs is a very steep drop and your body will be crying, "FOUL!!", big time. I would suggest going from 70mg to 65 for =at least= 3 days, maybe 4 or 5, then 60, then 55, etc.
I relate to your dilemma (the addict's dilemma) which is the basic trouble with tapering: you have to commit, for a number of weeks, that you will be using a perfectly good supply of your favorite drug to feel, basically, nothing but uncomfortable. and what junkie in their right mind would commit to such a ridiculous idea?? :)
the key is absolutely committing to using your favorite drug to not get any of the effects you have been so fond of! :) I have posted some other posts over the past 24 hrs on tapering -- maybe if you click on my name you can see a list of posts and see if anything there helps you.
I also have been sober for 20 yrs now from drugs (coke, opiates) and EtOH, which is why I was so determined to be a good patient and not abuse my meds. it is =very= hard, b/c I undoubtedly enjoy them. I think I have succeeded, and am now tapering down before a surgery that is supposed to fix my pain condition. I HATE tapering!! but I also feel really proud of myself as I see those numbers drop down (I keep an excel spread sheet!!). it'slike an overweight person succssfully dieting -- they miss their food and feel like ****, but it SUCH a reward to watch those numbers steadily come down!
I never used oxycontin before (it wasn't invented when I was my former alcoholic-addict self) and percs were my favorites. oxy is definitely, as you say, tough juju. it is the one med I am very eager to be done with.
if you are going to decide to go ct, you will have to flush your stash. I wouldn't be able to do that. I can't do the ct b/c I have to work and I have a child, and I wouldn't be able to bring myself to flush my supply. so I taper.
the main thing too is to remember that you won't feel crappy through the whole taper. you'll feel a bit racy and rushy and unfocused at times, but most of the time you'll feel pretty good. if I have a particularly bad time I allow myself an extra 5mg to take the edge off, and then go right back to the lower dose (or the next level down, even) the next day. but you have to be careful giving yourself permission to do that b/c for an addict, every little hangnail will feel like a good reason to take another pain pill. :) so it's best to stay busy and strugle through the times when you feel super uncomfortable -- it'll pass.
also watch out for the part of you that will whisper in your ear, "wow, you only took 45mgs today! surely you can have 10mgs at bedtime for a little reward!". the devilis slippery and everywhere, and will always tempting you. staying busy helps -- nothing puts the kabosh on a taper like sitting around feeling anxious and crappy and watching the clock. get out and walk, start a hobby or take a class in which you can get lost, go to the beach (or hills, or woods) and walk walk walk...spend time with other people, do whatever you can so you're not just sitting around feeling every pang of wd.
try to remember you are doing this for YOU and to have a better life -- it is in your grasp to do so, just fight and struggle and keep pushing forward. you are worth it!!
good luck, and God bless.
I relate to your dilemma (the addict's dilemma) which is the basic trouble with tapering: you have to commit, for a number of weeks, that you will be using a perfectly good supply of your favorite drug to feel, basically, nothing but uncomfortable. and what junkie in their right mind would commit to such a ridiculous idea?? :)
the key is absolutely committing to using your favorite drug to not get any of the effects you have been so fond of! :) I have posted some other posts over the past 24 hrs on tapering -- maybe if you click on my name you can see a list of posts and see if anything there helps you.
I also have been sober for 20 yrs now from drugs (coke, opiates) and EtOH, which is why I was so determined to be a good patient and not abuse my meds. it is =very= hard, b/c I undoubtedly enjoy them. I think I have succeeded, and am now tapering down before a surgery that is supposed to fix my pain condition. I HATE tapering!! but I also feel really proud of myself as I see those numbers drop down (I keep an excel spread sheet!!). it'slike an overweight person succssfully dieting -- they miss their food and feel like ****, but it SUCH a reward to watch those numbers steadily come down!
I never used oxycontin before (it wasn't invented when I was my former alcoholic-addict self) and percs were my favorites. oxy is definitely, as you say, tough juju. it is the one med I am very eager to be done with.
if you are going to decide to go ct, you will have to flush your stash. I wouldn't be able to do that. I can't do the ct b/c I have to work and I have a child, and I wouldn't be able to bring myself to flush my supply. so I taper.
the main thing too is to remember that you won't feel crappy through the whole taper. you'll feel a bit racy and rushy and unfocused at times, but most of the time you'll feel pretty good. if I have a particularly bad time I allow myself an extra 5mg to take the edge off, and then go right back to the lower dose (or the next level down, even) the next day. but you have to be careful giving yourself permission to do that b/c for an addict, every little hangnail will feel like a good reason to take another pain pill. :) so it's best to stay busy and strugle through the times when you feel super uncomfortable -- it'll pass.
also watch out for the part of you that will whisper in your ear, "wow, you only took 45mgs today! surely you can have 10mgs at bedtime for a little reward!". the devilis slippery and everywhere, and will always tempting you. staying busy helps -- nothing puts the kabosh on a taper like sitting around feeling anxious and crappy and watching the clock. get out and walk, start a hobby or take a class in which you can get lost, go to the beach (or hills, or woods) and walk walk walk...spend time with other people, do whatever you can so you're not just sitting around feeling every pang of wd.
try to remember you are doing this for YOU and to have a better life -- it is in your grasp to do so, just fight and struggle and keep pushing forward. you are worth it!!
good luck, and God bless.
Yoda and Kittycat,
Thanks to both of you for your responses.
Yoda, I went and read your story and it is amazing and inspirational. I may go and reread it from time to time as I go through this.
Kittycat, you are very wise as to the mental shananigans of an addict. It probably won't surprise you that I went and raided my stash yet again today. You could officially say I am no longer tapering.
It's obvious that I can't do this and still have access to my drugs. If there were 100 miles away I would probably drive that to obtain them, so having them a few miles away in a storage place is almost the same as having them in my house. I either have to give everything to my wife (who is doling out the pills to me now), or give it all up and go on some other program such as suboxone.
Today I took 80 mg. I will cheat again tomorrow, I feel certain, because I still have part of the stash I took out of storage.
Although it feels kind of good to not be in withdrawals, had I kept with my plan I doubt my day today would have been much worse. But when it comes to this stuff, I am more or less powerless. So I have to make a decision. I feel confident I will not start doctor shopping or otherwise trying to obtain more drugs, so I'm either going to end up in a bad withdrawal for a week or more by running out, or I'm going to resume tapering by giving my stash to my wife (as you say, flushing seems out of the question), or I'm going to try the suboxone method and see if that is easier.
As for doing stuff to distract, yes, I've found that to be helpful too. But some of what you suggest I can't do right now, including walk longer distances, due to the same pain issues (and some new ones) that caused me to check into the osteoarthritis study in the first place. Yes, I was drug-seeking to a great degree, but I do have major joint problems and today a new one arose that was rather excruciating. I don't offer that as any kind of excuse to take more medication because my pain is strictly when doing stuff, not while sitting around for the most part.
I have one other question for you folks. Since I've been on the oxycontin, I resumed drinking after having a few years without it. I've been mostly sober for the last 23 years, although I have had some relapses before this. I've been telling myself that if I need to drink while getting off the oxy that that is the least of my problems, and to be honest on the worst days I can't even think about drinking much because my stomach feels so bad. But does it make sense to allow myself some beer while withdrawing or does that makes things worse? I know for sure I can quit the drinking because I have spent years and years sober and usually don't have much trouble giving it up when I decide to do it.
My primary concern right now is dealing with getting off oxycontin, by far the most addictive substance I've ever encountered. Any suggestions or support will be appreciated.
Richard
Thanks to both of you for your responses.
Yoda, I went and read your story and it is amazing and inspirational. I may go and reread it from time to time as I go through this.
Kittycat, you are very wise as to the mental shananigans of an addict. It probably won't surprise you that I went and raided my stash yet again today. You could officially say I am no longer tapering.
It's obvious that I can't do this and still have access to my drugs. If there were 100 miles away I would probably drive that to obtain them, so having them a few miles away in a storage place is almost the same as having them in my house. I either have to give everything to my wife (who is doling out the pills to me now), or give it all up and go on some other program such as suboxone.
Today I took 80 mg. I will cheat again tomorrow, I feel certain, because I still have part of the stash I took out of storage.
Although it feels kind of good to not be in withdrawals, had I kept with my plan I doubt my day today would have been much worse. But when it comes to this stuff, I am more or less powerless. So I have to make a decision. I feel confident I will not start doctor shopping or otherwise trying to obtain more drugs, so I'm either going to end up in a bad withdrawal for a week or more by running out, or I'm going to resume tapering by giving my stash to my wife (as you say, flushing seems out of the question), or I'm going to try the suboxone method and see if that is easier.
As for doing stuff to distract, yes, I've found that to be helpful too. But some of what you suggest I can't do right now, including walk longer distances, due to the same pain issues (and some new ones) that caused me to check into the osteoarthritis study in the first place. Yes, I was drug-seeking to a great degree, but I do have major joint problems and today a new one arose that was rather excruciating. I don't offer that as any kind of excuse to take more medication because my pain is strictly when doing stuff, not while sitting around for the most part.
I have one other question for you folks. Since I've been on the oxycontin, I resumed drinking after having a few years without it. I've been mostly sober for the last 23 years, although I have had some relapses before this. I've been telling myself that if I need to drink while getting off the oxy that that is the least of my problems, and to be honest on the worst days I can't even think about drinking much because my stomach feels so bad. But does it make sense to allow myself some beer while withdrawing or does that makes things worse? I know for sure I can quit the drinking because I have spent years and years sober and usually don't have much trouble giving it up when I decide to do it.
My primary concern right now is dealing with getting off oxycontin, by far the most addictive substance I've ever encountered. Any suggestions or support will be appreciated.
Richard
Richard, I don't think it's a good idea to drink while you are on the oxys. And face it, I think you realize you are not going to be able to get off of the oxys until you get rid of them. I was the same way; if I had them, I'd eat them. So I think you should make your quit plan, flush your oxys and stay away from the booze. I just think it will make you feel worse when you go thru withdrawals. My father was an alcoholic, as was his father before him, as was his father, etc, etc. You get the picture. So there was a period in my life when I struggled with alcohol and it just made me feel worse the next day. I think you deserve to know what it's like to be sober and free. That's my opinion of course.
Thanks for your kind words about my story. I will be here if you need me.
Make that plan now.
Good luck,
Yoda
Thanks for your kind words about my story. I will be here if you need me.
Make that plan now.
Good luck,
Yoda
The only way i could taper is when i did not have access to any pills...and it was not comfy...i went ct after 10 days...i did not enjoy tapering and for me it prolonged the agony somewhat...i did get my dose down a bit when i wasnt finding ways to cheat...you will have to taper and quit the subs one day as well...just a thought and it is not a piece of cake to do that either...give it your best shot quitting on your own...get rid of your stash or give it to your wife...dont snort any pills if at all possible...you will one day have to face the withdrawals whatever route that you choose...make a plan and stick to it as best you can...keep posting
Thank you all for advice and your wisdom.
I looked into the suboxone a little more today, and actually went to a Dr's office where they prescribe it. I didn't have an appointment and just picked up some literature. It's fairly expensive.
Since I'm not really tapering very well, I'm going to have to face CT before long, and when I do, I'm hoping my dose is down around 30 mg or lower for at least a few days. I'm curious if anybody has any thoughts about how bad it could be with that low of a daily dose? If it's not going to be horrendous, I'm thinking I could save some serious bucks by just going off all the drugs right then as opposed to going onto yet another drug and tapering off of that one. At the rate I'm going, the drugs will be done some time in about a week, including my supplemental supply. When my supplemental supply is done (in a few days, at the rate I'm going, I will undergo something close to a CT because I'll go from maybe 60 mg to 30 or 20 in a hurry. That still sounds better than going to zero.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
Rich
I looked into the suboxone a little more today, and actually went to a Dr's office where they prescribe it. I didn't have an appointment and just picked up some literature. It's fairly expensive.
Since I'm not really tapering very well, I'm going to have to face CT before long, and when I do, I'm hoping my dose is down around 30 mg or lower for at least a few days. I'm curious if anybody has any thoughts about how bad it could be with that low of a daily dose? If it's not going to be horrendous, I'm thinking I could save some serious bucks by just going off all the drugs right then as opposed to going onto yet another drug and tapering off of that one. At the rate I'm going, the drugs will be done some time in about a week, including my supplemental supply. When my supplemental supply is done (in a few days, at the rate I'm going, I will undergo something close to a CT because I'll go from maybe 60 mg to 30 or 20 in a hurry. That still sounds better than going to zero.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
Rich
well, you won't die of ct, so if that's where you're headed, you'll survive it. :)
me, I just hate it so much that I'm willing to give a taper my best shot. it is very hard not to cheat, but that is the dilemma -- "well, I'm going to have to feel some wd sometime, so why now when I have a perfectly good supply?". the thing is, as you predict, ct off of 30mgs is far preferable to ct off 80 or 100mgs.
I admit that tapering really sucks at times, but you do get used to the discomfort. it's annoying, like "ughk, how long do I have to keep =feeling= like this?", and on the days when I allow myself the extra 5mgs it's like, "ahhhhhh, all better now...". :)
you sound very intelligent and I think you know what you're doing. the key is making a plan and making a commitment. it's not easy -- but it is simple.
and amen to that "driving" 100 miles" -- me too. I was planning in the week before my surgery I would leave whatever I have left at home and go check into a hotel with spa services to take some of the misery off the final ct -- but I know where I'd be driving the first night (80 miles away) to pick p a few "edge-taker-offers" -- HOME!
I seriously would advise against using EtOH as a edge-taker-offer. you have been in recovery from it, which tells me you at one point in your life found you were powerless over EtOH. I doubt you will find it easy to control that, coming off of oxy. now you'll be an active alcoholic with ct oxy wds -- what kind of decisions do you think you're going to make in that condition? my bet is it'll suddenly seem like a good idea to go cop some heroin and go shoot up. that's what I did when I was 18. and got raped for it by the dealer (and his friend). :(
I really think, richard, your mind is too slippery to outfox this. you have to make a decision, and admit you are powerless, and seek help. if you are not on too high a dose now, flush the stash. ask a friend to walk to the toilet with you. you will probably feel very angry and even maybe cry. but you will feel so good after! (and then, probably kick yourself 6-8X a day when wd sets in). try to ease your wd with the oxy you reserved for a short taper. don't snort it. break the smaller ones (10 or 20) into smaller pieces and chew 5 or 10mgs if you have to, just to get a little relief meds in your system faster, but take the bulk of it AS DIRECTED. :)
I have pain issues too (total joint replacement next month) so I can relate to that -- I know it sounds silly, but if you can't get out and walk, get a jigsaw puzzle or a book of crossword puzzles for when you're not feeling too bad. sit outside and watch people walk by and the spring beauty begin to bloom. take up knitting (seriously! it's very relaxing and mindlessly repetitive). when you feel like sh*t, take a bath, wrap yourself in a blanket and curl up in bed, stay there as long as you need to and watch cartoons. sip some soup or tea. there are great suggestions here for nutritional supplementation that won't make you feel like an oxy, but will help your body/brain get through the discomort of wd. tell yourself you are getting bad juju out of your system with every minute that passes, and tell yourself that the devil is visiting upon you his worse to hold you under his sway. tell him to go chase himself.
I sincerely wish the best for you -- keep writing. :)
kittykat58
me, I just hate it so much that I'm willing to give a taper my best shot. it is very hard not to cheat, but that is the dilemma -- "well, I'm going to have to feel some wd sometime, so why now when I have a perfectly good supply?". the thing is, as you predict, ct off of 30mgs is far preferable to ct off 80 or 100mgs.
I admit that tapering really sucks at times, but you do get used to the discomfort. it's annoying, like "ughk, how long do I have to keep =feeling= like this?", and on the days when I allow myself the extra 5mgs it's like, "ahhhhhh, all better now...". :)
you sound very intelligent and I think you know what you're doing. the key is making a plan and making a commitment. it's not easy -- but it is simple.
and amen to that "driving" 100 miles" -- me too. I was planning in the week before my surgery I would leave whatever I have left at home and go check into a hotel with spa services to take some of the misery off the final ct -- but I know where I'd be driving the first night (80 miles away) to pick p a few "edge-taker-offers" -- HOME!
I seriously would advise against using EtOH as a edge-taker-offer. you have been in recovery from it, which tells me you at one point in your life found you were powerless over EtOH. I doubt you will find it easy to control that, coming off of oxy. now you'll be an active alcoholic with ct oxy wds -- what kind of decisions do you think you're going to make in that condition? my bet is it'll suddenly seem like a good idea to go cop some heroin and go shoot up. that's what I did when I was 18. and got raped for it by the dealer (and his friend). :(
I really think, richard, your mind is too slippery to outfox this. you have to make a decision, and admit you are powerless, and seek help. if you are not on too high a dose now, flush the stash. ask a friend to walk to the toilet with you. you will probably feel very angry and even maybe cry. but you will feel so good after! (and then, probably kick yourself 6-8X a day when wd sets in). try to ease your wd with the oxy you reserved for a short taper. don't snort it. break the smaller ones (10 or 20) into smaller pieces and chew 5 or 10mgs if you have to, just to get a little relief meds in your system faster, but take the bulk of it AS DIRECTED. :)
I have pain issues too (total joint replacement next month) so I can relate to that -- I know it sounds silly, but if you can't get out and walk, get a jigsaw puzzle or a book of crossword puzzles for when you're not feeling too bad. sit outside and watch people walk by and the spring beauty begin to bloom. take up knitting (seriously! it's very relaxing and mindlessly repetitive). when you feel like sh*t, take a bath, wrap yourself in a blanket and curl up in bed, stay there as long as you need to and watch cartoons. sip some soup or tea. there are great suggestions here for nutritional supplementation that won't make you feel like an oxy, but will help your body/brain get through the discomort of wd. tell yourself you are getting bad juju out of your system with every minute that passes, and tell yourself that the devil is visiting upon you his worse to hold you under his sway. tell him to go chase himself.
I sincerely wish the best for you -- keep writing. :)
kittykat58
To Kittykat: Awesome post.
To Richard: As long as you don't give up the desire to quit, you'll make it.
Peace,
Yodes
And yes, I'm very fuzzy this morning and functioning on about 2 hours sleep!
To Richard: As long as you don't give up the desire to quit, you'll make it.
Peace,
Yodes
And yes, I'm very fuzzy this morning and functioning on about 2 hours sleep!
Hi Yoda and Kittykat,
Today I had a wayward thought, and I thought I'd post about it rather than acting on it.
My thought was to call the clinic tomorrow, admit that I hadn't followed the taper plan too well, ask for a few more, tell them I'm having my wife hold them, yada yada. In other words, typical addict bargaining to avoid withdrawal as long as possible.
In a certain sense, my situation is sort of hopeful, if I don't somehow acquire more meds. I have about enough of my extra secret supply to last me, at most, through the weekend. So early next week the dose I'm getting from my wife will be about 20 mg per day, and I will have dropped down from a dose more like 60 mg per day (and even higher yesterday and the day before). So it's going to be a rapid taper and will probably feel lousy, but at least it won't be pure cold turkey. Over the next week I'll run out completely and I will be on the road to normalcy. I'm guessing that I won't feel so hot for a week or longer, but since my total time on this medication is going to turn out to be less than five months, I'm hoping the transition won't be as bad as it is for some who have been on higher doses or on it for longer.
But, the mind is weak, so I gotta avoid the temptation to seek more drugs. Yes, more drugs might make it more comfortable, but the reality is that I can't trust myself with them, can't trust myself to give them to my wife, can't trust myself not to find her hiding place (I already did, and it took me about 30 seconds). I just have to stick to the plan and any extra discomfort I feel because I cheated is just too bad.
As for the alcohol, I haven't been able to face the evenings without at least having one thing to look forward to, but if my prior experience is any guide, I won't feel up to drinking during the sharp drop down in dosage. I couldn't drink or eat last weekend, which has side benefits (since I'm always trying to lose weight). I exercise daily and that is my one saving grace, the one thing that makes me feel a little better for a while. It's weird that I've somehow mixed up my oxycontin addiction with the exercise, as I'm very used to popping my first dose and then going to the gym. I'll get used to doing everything naturally again, I feel sure, and hopefully within a very few weeks I'll be myself, clean and sober and healthy and not obsessed with stupid pills. God, I hate this stuff and what it's done to me.
Today I had a wayward thought, and I thought I'd post about it rather than acting on it.
My thought was to call the clinic tomorrow, admit that I hadn't followed the taper plan too well, ask for a few more, tell them I'm having my wife hold them, yada yada. In other words, typical addict bargaining to avoid withdrawal as long as possible.
In a certain sense, my situation is sort of hopeful, if I don't somehow acquire more meds. I have about enough of my extra secret supply to last me, at most, through the weekend. So early next week the dose I'm getting from my wife will be about 20 mg per day, and I will have dropped down from a dose more like 60 mg per day (and even higher yesterday and the day before). So it's going to be a rapid taper and will probably feel lousy, but at least it won't be pure cold turkey. Over the next week I'll run out completely and I will be on the road to normalcy. I'm guessing that I won't feel so hot for a week or longer, but since my total time on this medication is going to turn out to be less than five months, I'm hoping the transition won't be as bad as it is for some who have been on higher doses or on it for longer.
But, the mind is weak, so I gotta avoid the temptation to seek more drugs. Yes, more drugs might make it more comfortable, but the reality is that I can't trust myself with them, can't trust myself to give them to my wife, can't trust myself not to find her hiding place (I already did, and it took me about 30 seconds). I just have to stick to the plan and any extra discomfort I feel because I cheated is just too bad.
As for the alcohol, I haven't been able to face the evenings without at least having one thing to look forward to, but if my prior experience is any guide, I won't feel up to drinking during the sharp drop down in dosage. I couldn't drink or eat last weekend, which has side benefits (since I'm always trying to lose weight). I exercise daily and that is my one saving grace, the one thing that makes me feel a little better for a while. It's weird that I've somehow mixed up my oxycontin addiction with the exercise, as I'm very used to popping my first dose and then going to the gym. I'll get used to doing everything naturally again, I feel sure, and hopefully within a very few weeks I'll be myself, clean and sober and healthy and not obsessed with stupid pills. God, I hate this stuff and what it's done to me.
with your drinking and pain problems and for the amount (short time
Because you haven't been on oxy long it shouldn't be that hard to kick. Don't be intimidated into thinking you can't do it and need sub. The main concern is that you have chronic pain and are drinking. all the best
0
Because you haven't been on oxy long it shouldn't be that hard to kick. Don't be intimidated into thinking you can't do it and need sub. The main concern is that you have chronic pain and are drinking. all the best
0
Your honesty is SOOOO refreshing. Glad to have you here. Sounds like your having a hard time kickin this. I would recommend suboxene.
I think sub or methadone is sometimes like a holding pattern . Is that bad? maybe not is some cases.. There aren't always drug solutions for drug addiction. all the best
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