Starting Suboxone

[ufindme2008]

I started Sub treatment this past Friday.  I was given directions on how to begin the treatment by my Dr.  I found that after taking the first 8mgs that I couldnt take anymore that evening.  They wanted me to get 3 pills in that first day but I was/am getting to high off just 8 mgs and so I cant take anymore than this without feeling like Ive been given a shot of demero/morphinel.  After taking just a half pill (4mgs) I feel like I did when Ive had surgeries, lying in the hospital and receiving pain shots.  Also, just like when taking my DOC (vics) I couldnt urinate real well, Im experiencing this on the Sub.  Yes, the good thing is that Im not experiencing any W/D from the vics but I dont feel right on this either.  I am going to call the Dr. tomorrow but I was wondering if anyone has gone through an experience like this when starting Sub?  I thought you werent suppose to feel high.  I feel high and somewhat shakey as well.  Is this just the side effects of starting Sub till it gets in your system?  Im not sure what to think.

Thanks,

Ellen

[refusingbondage]

There is a big debate on the long term/short usage issue.  Many doctors, including mine, advocated long term use as a maintenance drug - even to the point of telling people they can stay on a low dose forever.  Was not an option for me, but was an option given to me.  I think many advocate long term use because it does help keep you clean.  For me, during my sub use I rarely ever craved after the first few months.  And it does give you freedom from your drug of choice and the addict behavior that comes along with it.  And that is a great thing.  I will never say its not a good option for some people.  But its the lack of information about afterwards that floored me.  I was never warned about what happens after.  Only told it was a piece of cake to quit.  I struggle all the time now on the pro/con issue.  I really make an effort to not frighten anyone with 'my' story.  But I do think to myself that I wished I would have found real information on suboxone from real people having used it and stopped using it, before I started it.  I never did though.  I was searching for a 10 day detox center and found suboxone.com.  Made an appointment and the rest is history.  If I would have come here and gotten the advice that so many give about how well a short term taper works etc, I would have done it.  If somone would have warned me about what its like to stop, starting at 24mgs and stopping at 1mg after over 2 years, I would have been appreciative.  All I read and was told is that its a miracle drug, etc.  I heard nothing negative about it and the experience was shocking.  That is where the anger comes from with a lot of people who have negative things to say about sub, I think.  Being told you will have no problems with this medication and no withdrawal and buying it and then having a really hard time stopping. If my doctor would have told  me, warned me in the least... even said 'its a possibility' I would have at least been given a chance and a choice - with full knowledge.  And if I was smart enough to have come here for some information and good guidance, I would have definitely done Liscamdave's and others suggestion in doing a short term treatment..I come here now and read stories from people who are just starting and getting good advice and I am grateful that they came for advice.. and stories from people like myself who spent far too long on it and are unable to quit.. and I feel bad for them and try to tell people that yes, it can be good but its not all good and should be used very carefully.    

[worried878]

So if you take sub in doses over 4 mgs, it does not act like an opiate ?  only when taken in doses less than 4 mg does it act like other opiates?  i need to read up on the new sub data....this drug is getting to be more and more interesting as time goes by

Lynne, If you are having trouble urinating then i would definitely talk to my doctor as i had not heard of that being a normal side effect of opiates..everyone is different but like avis and refusing said..keeping your doctor informed of how u r responding so he can be aware of ur needs is important..we are the only ones who know how we feel but letting him know is important so if something happens there are no surprises..
Some cant tolerate 16 mgs of sub..a friend was put on it..120 mg oxy user but had been off and on oxies for a few months trying to quit but failing, when she got on sub...she took 16 mgs as directed the first day and was out of it..extremely sick for 3 days til it passed out of her system...then she was afraid to take the sub again due to the bad experience and went to methadone..needless to say she is now addicted to methadone after 4 months on it at 50 mgs...she did try and call the sub doctor to tell him she felt bad that first day but got the nurse on the phone who blew her off..i went over and spent the night with her that first night cos i was worried about her...
There are many good sub doctors out there who will listen to you and adjust your dose to the amount u feel comfortable with..i guess just like with any doctor, be it an obgyn or an ent, there are good and bad doctors out there...hopefull you have called or went in to see him and got everything in order..good luck to you

[Kova]

to my knowledge doctors way over prescribe Sub.  they put people on large doses for extreme lengths of time.  seeing this happen again and again to people in my life makes me not trust in any SUb doctor i have seen so far.  in my opinion, they are either extremely ignorant and careless, or just plain greedy for your money.  that, again, is my opinion.

Kova

[liscamdave]

I also agree with Lynn. If sub is used properly and NOT taken in amounts that are way too much, it is very beneficial. I am over one year clean and detoxed with Sub. I started out with a small dose and tapered immediatley. I think what Ga Guy meant is that people who have taken sub and had bad experiences with it, tend to make it a certainty to others that they WILL have worst w.d. And that they WILL be trading one drug for another. This poster should talk to her dr and tell him the symtoms she is having. But also, 3 8mg tablets of sub is a heck of alot. I was on 1200mgs of Oxy Contin a day and was not given that much sub. I know she only took one, but the fact the dr even gave her that much is wrong in itself. Good luck and I hope things work out.

[GA Guy]

The ceiling effect is why most Doctors start on the higher dosages. As long as you're at 4mg and stay over 4mg, then the withdrawals should stay at bay. The problem is that Suboxone does eliminate from the body. It does so slowly, but does eliminate. So, if you dose a person with a fairly big opiate addiction at 4mg, then as the drug goes below that 4mg, withdrawals will return. Thus the higher dosages at first...to make sure the addict stays above that 4mg ceiling effect level. I do agree that after 5 days or so, the dosages should be reduced and that can be done quite dramatically until you hit that 4mg level. The problem comes when getting into dosages below 4mg. At those levels, Sub acts just like any other opiate, and must be tapered down.

And to refusing bondage, I never said people could or would lie about what they personally experienced. I even pointed out the contrary in my post. I just wanted to point out to those that are contemplating Suboxone that in the noninternet world, the bad experiences aren't nearly the 100 to 1 ratios like it seems on here or other message boards. This goes for any drug, not just Suboxone. I must also point out that finding a competent Suboxone doctor is of upmost importance. Good healthcare is your right. Never feel bad about "firing" a doctor that doesn't share your vies or believe your feelings.

[Lynn79]

I read the rest of everyone's posts AFTER I put my two cents in.  So let me clarify that I gave the advice I gave because it is what I wish I would have done.  Disclaimer: It may not work for everyone, as we are all different.  This medication is so new that the only thing doctors have to go on is the pamphlet they are given from the med company.  Someone really needs to get in touch with these people and tell them that not everyone can be started on 16mgs of this sh*t.  Maybe this works for people coming off a really bad and really large habit, but for the minimal opiate users, most say they feel fine on 2-4mgs.  And I can share from experience that you shouldn't be taking them more than once a day.  I made the mistake of adding an evening dose to my regimen, and it threw me right back into the addict mindset.