More questions

[mellie4]

I originally posted on here to get info for my boyfriend who was going through Percocet withdrawals.  At the time I wasn't a hundred percent sure whether he was addicted or actually undermedicated and that's why he ran out of them.  Since then I can see he truly was addicted and due to some other issues with him and the decisions he's made because of alcohol and percocets, I've broken it off with him.

I then started to look at my own issues and posted wondering whether I'm an addict.  (The comments lead me to think I am not.  And my pain management nurse practitioner and the anesthesiologist there also think I am not.)

I've been super aware of addiction issues since I started but the more research I do, the more nervous I am about being on all these meds.  I'm beginning to think pain clinics don't necessarily want you to get off pain meds.  The meds I'm on right now are Cymbalta 120 mg. a day, Lorazapam 1 to 1.5 mg. once a day as needed, oxycodone 30 mg. every four hours, Clonidine 0.1 mg twice a day, Voltaren gel as needed, Ibuprofen 800 mg. every 6 hours.

I've had 8 surgeries and will have a 9th on my thumb joint.  I also ended up with RSD and nerve pain from the second surgery.  I have had about 5 stellate ganglion blocks to help with the pain and will have another one within a few weeks.

I've had many conversations with the nurse practitioner and anesthesiologist at the pain clinic as well as the the surgeon.  My pain has been difficult to control and my outcome surgically has been considered a failure.  I'm nearly 48 and I'll probably have to take early retirement.  I have 4 kids and I'm a single mom.

As my dosage has increased over the years, I get more and more worried.  (My first surgery was in July of '07 and I was on 5 mg. of Percocet every four hours.  I was on and off them over the years until about 1.5 years ago when things got really bad and I haven't had a time without them since.)

Yesterday I spoke to the NP about how the pain isn't really well controlled on what I'm on.  (At that point I was taking all of the above but the oxy was at 30 mg. every three hours.)  She talked about putting me on a longer acting med.  (And if it wasn't for this site, I probably would have agreed.)   She mentioned oxycontin, MS Contin, Fentanyl patch and Methadone.

I told her no way.  (If things really got worse I MIGHT consider doing the oxycontin since it's the same drug I'm on.)  I  told her I felt morphine and Fentanyl patches were for people who were dying (in my mind.)  And I told her I had read too many bad things about the methadone and getting off it.  (I know they think I'm one of those crazy people who watches too much 20/20 and reads too much into sites like this.  But you are the people who have gone through this.)

She has always told me I WILL NEVER have to experience withdrawal symptoms from anything they put me on.  I asked "Why?  Am I never going to be able to not take something?"  She said she didn't know whether I'd need pain relief the rest of my life or not.  

I've asked her to look into some alternative treatments for me.  Now she's going to set me up with a pain psychiatrist who is (supposedly) well versed in some alternative treatments for long-term chronic pain.  I'm also going to look into accupuncture or something like that, maybe some meditation.  She agreed I could cut back from 30 mg. oxycodone every 3 hours to 30 mg. oxycodone every four hours and in two weeks we can adjust it down a little more.  She's also going to try to get me some kind of compounding gel that is topical that has ketamine as the main ingredient and it's supposed to have good results.

So here I am again looking for answers from all of you.  I feel bad taking up your time since maybe I'm not an addict.  (I've never overused the meds, ran out early got them from multiple docs or taken someone else's script, etc.)

But I'm thinking she's not being totally honest about withdrawal with me.  It doesn't seem possible that I can taper down and experience no withdrawals due to how much I'm on and how long I've been on it.  Has anyone tapered down and never experienced withdrawals?

I'm also worried about my pain.  It's bad.  And the meds at least help me function.  But I don't like who I am on them.  I isolate myself.  I used to be quite social and enjoy going out but since I've been out of work, I feel like I don't have much to contribute.  And due to all the meds, I can be a bit foggy at times, sometimes have trouble finding the right word, etc.  And my hand looks awful.  So I avoid people (other than my family and the recent boyfriend.  Now that I've broken it off with him, I hardly talk to anyone.)

I am planning on starting a water aerobics class next week just to get myself out.  I have a friend with a disability and we're going to go together.  (I used to be a big fan of the gym but haven't been in a year.  I'm hoping it will help my depression.  Luckily I haven't put any weight on, though I suspect that's because the oxycodone has caused me to have very little interest in food.)

Oh, another thing, the NP seemed to get offended when I was adamant about not going on methadone for the pain.  She said something to the effect of, "Well, methadone has gotten a bad reputation but the truth is it was developed for people with chronic pain and it's a good and effective drug and I have many patients that do well on it."

I don't know where all this will lead me.  I don't know if I will be able to get off the meds but I want to.  I plan on trying to find other things that can help and try them.  I'm wondering if when I get down to a lower dose of the oxycodone if I should try the Thomas recipe as I'm doing it.  Do you think it would help?  Do you think it is possible to get off these without ANY withdrawal symptoms?

Are there people who stay on narcotics for pain management for their whole life without abusing them?  Seems to me most people here started with a legitimate injury.

Any and all comments and advice are appreciated.  I've learned so much here.  I wish I knew about this site before my first surgery and I would have had more knowledge and I could have asked more questions rather than just blindly following what the "experts" said.

[petroglyph54]

No one know's your pain like you do. If "I only knew then what I know now" I really think I would have spent more time at physical therapy, I at times believe {d} that the only way out was to work my way out, as in building more proper musco skelatal strength, better posture etc. but mine is a back injury. Not sure how you'd build up thumb mucle's? [ Maybe hitchiking?] Kidding! The docs gave me long acting oxy,saying the way to make myself an addict was to be watching the clock for my next dose, as in smaller doses more frequently, like the 30's you[we] are taking, I thought that methadone [methadose] was for getting off heroin. I was taking it for pain but was removed cuz the maker wouldn't allow it for pain management? Wow, that nurse, she's just wrong! If I was a prescribing md, and wanted to hook somebody, I think I'd prescribe what they have for you! To me, and I'm not a pro, all those heavy duty pain meds are about the same, I've done the patch, morphine, methadose now oxy. I was given the same speach about taking the meds for pain, would probably not addict me yadda yadda. I think if you take enough, long enough and especially if your pain underneath the meds improves, what will be left to deal with is, well you know. I just purhased an ultrasound divice that might be helpful, and have you tried alot of ice?  good luck

[Dav125]

Mellie4 said:

"" I think isolating myself is more from being out of work for so long.  I sort of feel like I don't have a lot to contribute.  I always thought I'd like being home.  But when I was home when my kids were little, it was different.  They needed me and we'd have playdates with other moms and kids and it was a lot of fun.  Now the kids are older and are in school and have their own social life and don't need me so much.  Almost everyone I know is at work.  Plus, not a lot of spare money being out of work.  I did promise myself the other day that I am going to make a concerted effort to get out of the house at least once a day and to make a connection with at least one friend a day either in person or by phone.  With the internet, it's become very easy to stay somewhat connected and still isolate at the same time. ""


Fully understand you on this Mellie4,,,and it does aggrevate the situation..When the kids were little, our time was always active keeping our minds busy. Now that they are older, I have more "off time" and the symtoms of the pain meds is there and hard to ignor..It does get depressing...Hang in there and your right about social contact. It does make a big difference....

[mellie4]

Sway1, you are helpful.  I find all of the comments helpful.  Tramahater, I'm sorry about the relationship, too.  He's really a great guy but I cannot go down that path with him.  I did with my ex, and I know that unless he is READY nothing I say or do will make a difference.  I have hope that someday he will be ready and when and if that time comes, I'll support him any way I can.  I think he's heading towards trying to see the truth.  We talk about it, and I won't shut him out completely.  I will talk with him as long as the talk is HONEST.  When he starts trying to rationalize things, I just say, "Goodbye for now."  Thing is, he does have legitimate pain issues and is frightened of the surgery (and I don't blame him.)

Sway1, I take the oxycodone without the Tylenol.  I've never liked Tylenol ever.  First, it never worked for me with anything and always made me sick to my stomach.  I always found Advil more helpful with everything.

I'm sure Methadone has a place.  I've always been afraid of any drugs.  Even when all my friends were experimenting with things in late high school and early college, I never got into.  I think I tried pot once.  It just wasn't for me.  And I've never been a big drinker either; maybe once or twice a year I'll have a glass a wine or a beer.  Very rare.  

I've tried to educate myself as I've gone along with all my surgeries but I focused more on the surgery and it's recovery and prognosis (which didn't go the way it usually does, hence I'm where I'm at now.)  I just feel somewhat misled with regards to narcotics.  I've always believed no one should have to suffer with pain, and I still believe that to a certain extent.  But I never knew that you could have withdrawals after a short period of time of being on them.

I, too, will sometimes skip a dose or two.  On occasion I've gone a couple of days, just to see what my pain level is like being off them.  The pain is bad.  I don't have a low pain threshold.  (Though I often think I do.  But I did have 4 kids, one with no drugs.  I've also had other tests and procedures where people have said, "OMG, I passed out when I had that done," and I'd get all nervous and then really feel not much at all.

I suppose going to see the pain psychiatrist will be like getting a second opinion.  And I also have a friend who's brilliant.  She's a nurse in an orthopedic practice and is familiar with what I've been going through.  I often talk to her about the meds.  Her feeling is that right now I need them and to stop worrying about being addicted and that when and if the time is right I'll taper off and be fine.

The only addiction I've ever had is cigarettes.  No one in my immediate family has addiction issues, but all my uncles on my moms side were alcoholics and a few cousins as well.  Plus, after living with my ex-husband for about 18 years and dealing with his addictions and the fallout of it makes me super sensitive, I think, to addiction.

I think isolating myself is more from being out of work for so long.  I sort of feel like I don't have a lot to contribute.  I always thought I'd like being home.  But when I was home when my kids were little, it was different.  They needed me and we'd have playdates with other moms and kids and it was a lot of fun.  Now the kids are older and are in school and have their own social life and don't need me so much.  Almost everyone I know is at work.  Plus, not a lot of spare money being out of work.  I did promise myself the other day that I am going to make a concerted effort to get out of the house at least once a day and to make a connection with at least one friend a day either in person or by phone.  With the internet, it's become very easy to stay somewhat connected and still isolate at the same time.

I thank everyone who has responded to any of my posts here.  Everyone cursed with this addiction is in my prayers.  This forum has opened my eyes.  I just wish more people were aware of the addiction process.  I know from my work (being a court reporter) and experiences with my ex and the legal system that there are not a lot of good answers out there and a lot of people are left having to figure it out for themselves.

[sway1]

i have a friend who is on very similar meds. she never overtakes. she even skips doses sometimes of the oxycodone. she has many of the same worries as you and wonders if the rest of her life will be full of all these pills. with her problems the answer is most likely  yes. the one thing you said that is a red flag to me is that you isolate yourself from people. that could be a sign.plus that is alot of oxycodone. i hope you are taking the ones without tylenol. that would be bad. sorry i am not being very helpful, but you seem very knowledgeable yourself. maybe someone else on here will give you more and betters suggestions. best of luck to you. peace, sway

[LeaAnn807]

Hi!  I remember you!  I'm sorry about your relationship ending, but it is probably best.  

Yes, there are people who can take meds for pain management for long amounts of time and not abuse them.  Tolerance and dependence happen to everyone.....addiction doesn't.  That, of course, means that you will become used to your dose, and it will not work as well, resulting in you having to go up in mgs or going to a different drug completely.  That seems to be where you are now.  I don't believe that you are an addict.  You are most likely dependent though.

Methadone IS used for chronic pain.  Your NP didn't lie to you about that part.  However, as an addict, it is hard for me to recommend methadone to ANYONE....addict or not!  It is one of the hardest drugs in the world to detox from, in my opinion.

Have you thought of getting another opinion?  It might give you a different perspective and some very different advice.