Day 5 CT of 110mg methadone... reassurance please :(

[kleighn]

I can't stop crying, thinking sad thoughts, everything makes me cry. I just need some good vibes and reassurance that this is going to subside. I tell myself constantly it will be worth it in the end but it doesn't help me from feeling like complete ****. Anything that can help with this or is this another thing I need to ride out...
Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh
I made myself get ready today then went for a drive because drives always calm me down, music in general and I've cried off all my make up! Lol. I'm a effing mess man.

[BanMethadone]

HI K:

People think I'm a little or a lot nutso all the time haha! I go back to school today, so I won't be posting as much either. I did want to check in and see how you were though.

About your counselor, I totally get that. There are many who seem to want to keep you there, and indeed my counselor has had me on stays from time to time, telling me the order expired etc... but I drove her absolutely crazy with my many many complaints and emails about it all. I tell her and myself constantly that I want to taper to zero and that I want off. Testing negative for methadone since 40mg held me up quite a bit too.

You have tons of respect from me for your courage in walking off. I think I have strength, but I would even question my own resolve at that point. I was just thinking a moment ago, that I am lucky I haven't had a lot of trouble with craving. For me, it's more about getting off of methadone, than staying clean. I hope that need to use does not return, but I'm prepared if it does. I won't be foolish and think it cannot happen.

I really think most addicts try to get off when their lives are still a mess, so facing w/d & PAWS in the wake of the mess you've created has to be incredibly hard. I have just been very lucky, not only to have gotten a lot of my mess cleaned up pre w/d, but also to have my clinic paid for so that I don't have to go work a crappy job at the waffle house while trying to detox. I count myself very fortunate. It takes a lot of strength and "good vibes" to pull it off.

I haven't seen the COWS, but I will check that out asap. Ty for that. I don't know a ton about addiction, just what i have researched online. I find it incredibly empowering to look at addiction from a disease standpoint because a disease can be treated, but if it's just "my weak will" then it's all my fault and that's a terribly lonely thing to think and feel. To know the reasons behind why we do what we do, and how to try to correct it is so empowering.

The first thing that I looked at that really helped me to see why I don't experience happiness normally, was this website about endorphins and why they are so important. I wish I could attach the link, but it's broken I think. Anyway you can just research endorphins and endorphin deficiencies and how to repair that. Vigorous exercise is a very good way. I find running or intense cardio esp increases my over all sense of well being. Yes it's so hard, but it's so worth it. I know your'e in the thick of it, but as soon as you feel well enough, you should try. The more you repeat an activity, the more you like it, and the easier it gets. This is due to processing fluency, and what that means is that it takes less brain activity (work) and becomes more likable to do things that are repeated. This is why we get so into our rituals and routines and we are even drawn to the letters in our own names. There is tons of research to show this, none that I have time to post links to, but the point is that it may not feel good or right to do hard things, but the more you do them, the more habitual they become and eventually your brain even has to do less work to make it happen. So train your brain and your body to do what's good for you!

ok gotta go lol sorry to ramble

[kleighn]

Wow you sound so busy! That can be stressful and rewarding at the same time(to keep your mind off of things) I didn't choose a slow taper because I'd asked my counselor to taper me down and she wouldn't. So me being the impulsive and stubborn person I am I jumped ship. I too was reading some scholarly journals last night that I found so interesting. It really is amazing I feel like my ability to smell things are even heightened. I can't wait to enjoy the beautiful things that I once was able to as a non addict. I'm very much a nature person and it's so cold where I live it hurts to even go outside. I wear layers upon layers. People at work today will probably think I'm a little nutso. But hey I feel really good today. I've got motivation and I know you will get through this too. As for my libido, it comes and goes. Which kind of *****. I am Still very touchy. I've never liked feeling my feelings so this too is new to me. How are you feeling today ? Like I said it's my first day back at work so I won't be posting quite as much. Take care and I hope you have a motivational day. You seem to have a ton of knowledge on our addiction and that definitely helps push on through, knowing the phases you're at. Have you ever looked at the COWS sheet online? I tested myself yesterday I think I landed around 13 or 14 I can't remember. It's interesting to know  if you are in mild, moderate, or severe wd. Have a good one:)

[BanMethadone]

Hi K:

I don't know much about Kratom, but I am sure man others do. So you stopped at 110mg?! I think you're amazing and strong, and I give you a ton of credit for going out and doing what you did today. It's so hard to get out when you feel like hell, but I doubt one every regrets spending some of the time which would normally be spent in torture anyhow, doing something productive.

I considered getting on Gabapentin for my restless legs, but I'm trying to manage without. I think if it gets too bad, it's ok to try to cope with the symptoms the best you can, but just know what you're getting into. Do your research and don't just take one persons word for it. I wish I had known more about methadone before getting on. I would have most likely ran in the other direction. I traded up for sure.

I'm glad you liked that song. Feel free to share any songs that you have with me as well. I think music and exercise are good things, and they make you feel stronger. I like feeling strong and not weak. I like feeling as if I do have some measure of control over what happens to me, and that definitely comes from setting goals and sticking with them. You have to take many many steps to reach your goal... it doesn't happen over night that's for sure, and sometimes you want to give up, but that's when you dig deep and get by in that moment by any means that won't send you back to using.

How are you feeling? I am sure you're wide awake. The insomnia and RLS has to be the most horrible part I think. I will be happy to hear about your milestones and successes.

It was nice of the person to help you without making you feel like crap. I am getting some adrenal extracts and I will let you know if those are helpful if you haven't tried them already.

I really enjoy reading scholarly journals about addiction although some of the language is dense and full of medical terminology, it's helpful to understand how methadone acts on the neuro-transmitters in our bodies, and how our bodies are so efficient that once these things are introduced artificially, our bodies stop making it naturally. I have also read that the reason Morphine isn't as hard to detox from is bc, unlike methadone, the receptors begin to be resensitzed slower, but with methadone, the minute it's gone you begin to feel everything again. It's like a person being kept in the dark for years and then suddenly led out into the sunlight. It's going to hurt like hell, but eventually you will start seeing some very beautiful things that you were completely numb and blind to before.

Just curious... has your libido been stronger when in w/d? When I cycle into withdrawal, I feel that come back big time. I think it's my body craving pleasure in any way it can get it. Music is the same I suppose, as I said.

Hope you're doing ok. I am going to try to sleep. I usually can get a few hours when I don't feel too bad. 4 hours is great sleep for me.

Just curious why you didn't choose a slow taper? I have heard conflicting accounts of this. For those of us who have been extremely traumatized by cold turkey, the fear keeps us in check not wanting to deal with that again. I want to walk off now so bad, but I'm afraid bc I have to take care of my little girl and do well in school. I have a class that's killing me... Portuguese! It's my third and fourth level of it, and it's getting rather complicated, yet my cognition ***** a lot of days from lack of sleep. I bet then think I'm an idiot! haha

text anytime :)

[kleighn]

I  got some kratom capsules from a local headshop. I know this could cause some controversy but this has calmed me down a whole lot and this with the passion flower I'm feeling pretty good. I'm just replacing a long acting opiate for a shorting acting opiate but I talked with a guy at the shop and he said this kratom is actually in the coffee family but if you take enough of them they act as an opiate. I dunno. Thoughts?

[kleighn]

120mg inspired me even more just because um well that's a lot. 110 is too I know but whatevs. Gnarly I think you once told me about l tyrosine and all the other stuff have you heard anything about passion flower helping... my chills seem to be subsiding a bit. I took my temp for the hell of it it was 99.5 nothing to be too worried about I feel like I always have a temperature. Since I started taking dones... mid day I would get really really hot. Sweat dripping off of my face hot. I don't know why that would happen. I'd go dose around 8am then by 3 or 4 I'd be hot as ****. I'm rambling. Talk to you guys later

[kleighn]

Goodness, that clinic you described made me sick to my stomach. Sounds like a death sentence to me. I'm glad we've made the right decision regardless of how long/how many opiates or other drugs we were doing; there is no better time than now. I am sorry that you have a constant trigger at home. Gosh that would just make me at wits end. I'm on Wikipedia reading the rat park study. How interesting and thanks for turning me on to that. No I did not get to exercise.  I instead went to a nutrition store, I bought passion flower,  b complex, allergy with antihistamines and l-tyrosine. I don't really know how I'm suppose to take these lol but I just got deep into conversation with a nutritionist guy and he was helping me out a bit without being judgmental.  The song sunk deep. I love that song but never took it in the way I did now! A whole new meaning... gnarly I have followed a lot of your posts as well and find you inspiring. You telling me that there are people that have jumped ship at

[BanMethadone]

Ola Gnarly:

I just began reaching out for support by reading these the past few days. I felt better after reading them, so I decided to join. I have read, a LOT of posts by you that helped me personally. Thank you. I didn't feel so alone and so helpless. I know many addicts, if they are like me, might think group therapy is so useless, but really it's when you're forced to do it that you cannot see the value in it. This site has the perk of being done truly anonymously, from the comfort of your own home, at any time that you need to reach out and receive reassurance from someone who knows what you're experiencing, and you don't have to shower to do it.

For those who are, like K, this kind of reassurance is imperative because it's one more minute, hour, day that we can stay on the right path, and the more steps you put behind you (even little turtle steps) can give you a little bit more clarity and resolve, as well as distance. I once heard that time and distance can heal all things, and the more distanced I get from my former level of addiction, I see the wisdom in that statement.

There's a thing called the End of History Illusion and it revolves around the false belief that we always think were going to feel the same way in the future that we do now, but if we look back to our past, we can see it just isn't so. We have to plan for a future that we will actually want to live in, a body, mind, and heart that we will actually want to live inside of as well. For that to happen, we must not only think positive now, but act positive now for a shot at happiness. You really do only get one time around... don't waste it bc the years will melt away and you'll have a whole lot of pain to face when you're older along with the realization that you've blinded yourself to the truth of what your "maintenance" was doing to you and those you love. I get some have chronic pain though, and that it's not as easy for them.

Getting to the 10mg point of my taper, I have come face to face with some serious emotional demons. I think music is a great way to channel the emotions, and exercise is great for me personally as far as trying to fight through the physical aches.

Here is a great song playing now, that I especially get chills from because I feel it can be related directly to addiction and recovery. http://youtu.be/F90Cw4l-8NY

I think you are so right about the negative wiring in our brains which lead us to cycle back into addiction. I went to a seminar at my university and this Psychology researcher showed his research about the power of positive thinking to affect everything in our lives. Even people with cancer who think positively, recover faster and better over all than those who don't. I'm not just talking about prayer here, I am talking about the power of positive thinking to literally guide what your body does and how it reacts. According to this researcher, if it's in your mind, it guides you and your actions whether you want it to or not. I guess that seems like common sense lol I decided to count the number of times a day that I have negative thoughts about myself or my situation and it was incredible... I lost count at 300. I am full of self loathing. Since then, I have been trying to re train myself towards more positive thoughts :) I don't tell myself I can't, but instead I say, I can.

Anyway, it got away from me here. I need to do every positive thing I can to chip away the days until I'm free. It gives me relief and pleasure to feel that I do have some control.

Thanks for all of your posts. You're a really supportive and knowledgeable presence on this site. I am glad I found it.

[gnarly_1]

He girl good to see you post  it rely helped me it give you a place to vent around people that understand we are all her to help, I give back freely to the same forum that comforted me when I went threw it you are doing fine give yourself a break this is a war one by the tortus not the hare baby steps get you there you have been given some great advise all I would like to add is hang in there the human body is very durable it also has the ability to reprogram the brain with time  methadone is really hard to detox from because of the amount of time it takes it is hands down the worst of the synthetic opiates but we have a lot of members who have walked in your shoes you can do this keep posting for support read the other posts good luck and God bless..........Gnarly.................................

[BanMethadone]

I meant to say that he triggers more discomfort, not triggers me to want to use. I am thankful that I don't have any cravings. I've been down that road, and I have way too much to loose to even be drawn to wanting to use again.

I did read a scholarly article about how rats were allowed to self inject with opiates, and given the choice, they chose to do so above even food and water and eventually many died. The ones that didn't were given an naloxone to strip the opiates from their receptors, and of those, some were presented with a flashing red light at the time of withdrawal (this is a stimulus which creates a neural representation that then becomes bound to the memory of withdrawal). Ok fast forward, down the road a month or so when the rat is completely clean... they flash the red light again, and bam... the rat goes into withdrawal. This makes a very good case for what I was saying... I associate my ex husband with traumatic memories of withdrawal. This also explains why it's very important for those in recovery to cut ties with people and things that trigger them. It's not impossible to over ride those bindings and make new ones, but it truly takes a lot of positive self talk and making new positive associations with the world around us... and so so much more. It's tough work, but it's not impossible.

[BanMethadone]

Hi:

sorry I didn't respond sooner. I am feeling much worse right now than I was this morning. I did force myself to run 6 miles though at least that's something positive that I can say I pushed through.

I can relate to always being thin.. I was too until I was on methadone for a few years and that caught up with me. I pretty much gave up and got huge. I am so glad you caught it now bc it, like addiction, does so much damage and changes you forever. You are so small still, you will bounce back. I am about 140 lb now, but a size 2-4 depending. I am very muscular and I think fit. This last 10mg, is really cutting into my workout schedule however. I am feeling ******. I think being on it so long has restructured the way I deal with even a slow taper as compared to someone who has been on it a lot less longer. Also, when you experience intense withdrawal, it truly traumatizes you and as you well know, the mental part of withdrawal can make the physical feel so much more painful.

I do dose at the clinic 3x a week and get 4 take home doses. Getting to this point in my recovery took so long. I would love for them to shut down the careless methadone clinics that give patients a ton of take homes before making sure they are ready because I was doing well in my recovery one year in and then I switched to a privately held clinic where they had 3k patients and a line wrapped around the building. It was a huge place with 20 windows and they didn't want to see them in there each day, so they gave me 2 weeks worth of take homes and I was not yet ready. I began double, triple, and quadruple dosing some days, then going through the cycles of drug seeking and all that comes along with that. It was a nightmare. I don't just blame them, but they do have some responsibility when giving out such a powerful drug.

It was then that I began to go really far down hill. I finally pushed through and it's so worth it. I know you will be happy too if you keep right on pushing through. I want to be where you are actually with nearly a week under my belt. My addiction has cost me so much, but my recovery will reward me with so much more. I am convinced that we will both be in a very unique position of trying to help others, and also of being able to appreciate our own lives and bodies so much more.

Did you get to the gym? It's ok if you didn't. I didn't either. I also have a cold atm. I have my ex husband living with me bc he lost his job, and omg it triggers me hard core bc he represents so much negativity of my past life. I just want to start over, not be constantly reminded of my painful past ya know!

I'm glad you have your teddy to cuddle. It's better than a person in this case probably bc of how icky you feel, cold and sweaty and all. Just do something positive and get through it. You're just putting it all behind you and you will be able to be free and never have to suffer like that agian, but if you go back, you are assured to have to suffer again and again until you quit.

take care... write more if you can.

[kleighn]

I was diagnosed first when I was 16, it runs in my family. I have little manic episodes I sway way more towards the depressive side. It is true that these withdrawal symptoms seem far too familiar and are definitely mimicking my disease if that in case is going on. I have been thin my whole life. Normally between 110-115. When I went to the doctor last Monday for something unrelated I weighed 140! Regardless,  I had a pea coat on but still. None of my pants fit me and it makes me even more upset. You've given me the motivation today to go to the gym. I think even cycling will help to start out with. One thing is true when I started my detox on tuesday, I felt like I'd never live to see sunday. Sunday is only two days from Tuesday and then I'll have a week under my belt. The heating pad has been a major comforter to me. I've been basically snuggling it like a teddy bear every night. How are you feeling right now? Are you dosing at a clinic?  Congrats on your taper that is a very long time to be on methadone. Thanks for your inspiration this morning to get my *** moving

[BanMethadone]

Just curious about your diagnosis of bipolar. The reason I ask is that I have questioned whether or not I was, BUT I was not diagnosed prior to my methadone stint, so I feel this may be something which cannot possibly be discerned until AFTER I fully detox and have some time behind me. The reason I say this is because withdrawing from this drug causes symptoms that mimic bipolar disorder. These mood swings, anxiety and depression could very well be the result of the detox. I am attempting to cope with my symptoms by using exercise and trying to stay in the game. I am a full time student and about to get my bachelors degree in English from the University of (my home state). I gained a ton of weight on methadone, but through a lot of hard work and exercise (no magic pill or surgery) I lost it all. I am 36 and in the best shape of my life. Exercise provides a huge relief of stress, anxiety, and it raises endorphins which, as addicts, we are in short supply of. It has been the best choice i've ever made bc it showed me how strong I could be and how much power I truly have to affect change in my life. I am not helpless and neither are you. We just have to be willing to learn a better way to cope and to handle all that life throws at us. Not taking a pill to make it all go away.

[BanMethadone]

Hi K:

There is a reason you gravitate towards music, and it's because it ignites those pleasure centers in your brain. Your body is crying out for that comfort that it's not longer getting or even able to make because you have been getting your comfort artificially. The body is a very efficient and complex machine. You have to do everything you to help your body regain it's ability to reward you naturally. Music is one small way you can get the reward. Exercise, esp vigorous exercise, is an even better way. Yes, I'm sure you are thinking "exercise... are you effing kidding me? I don't even want to move!" but you may surprise yourself once you get started. Most likely you are experiencing a sensory overload for both pleasure and pain. You may be coming to many painful emotional realizations that you have been burying for a long time, and you feel tons of physical pain too. It's intense, and unfortunately there is no easy out. They say take it "one day at a time" but really it's like one minute at a time. In time, those minutes will increase to hours, and then days, then weeks. It will get easier with time and distance. You just have to keep your thoughts and eyes toward the positive and the future. Think of how much you have to gain by staying on methadone and then think about what it costs you and those you love.

You can do it. I am going through it too, but not quite as intensely as you are at the moment. It comes in waves.

Here are my recommendations for relief, granted they can seem like cold and small comforts, they are worth doing bc anything you can do to get through another minute, another hour, and another day without using, is one day you will be closer to your goal.

Music
Heating pad
hot soaks in bath
exercise
reading as much information online about your addiction so you aren't feeling that you are simply weak and that there is no hope.
don't isolate bc it leads to more negativity
STAY POSITIVE... count what will be amazing once your finished and know that you NEVER have to do it again.
vitamins

Don't worry, everyone begins to feel like they are a basket case, like they are loosing their minds, and maybe even like they are going to die. I've done cold turkey twice and now on a slow taper from a 14 year 90mg a day habit. I'm at 10mg now and 7 weeks to go before I jump ship.

Good luck... you CAN do it.. you are not weak, but you are addicted to a seriously sinister drug.

[spider6]

Hang tight sweetie and just keep pushing forward.  Unfortunately, it's all part of the process!  I have bp too and know exactly what you're going through.  Hugs and prayers for peace.

[kleighn]

Hey gnarly. I don't know if the energy crash has hit me yet... After crying literally all day, I fell asleep for about 3 hours. Now I'm wide awake and it's 2:30 am. I do believe I had a couple of cat naps in between after I woke up from my nap and now. I just can't get comfortable ! I keep tossing and turning and freezing then hot. I do have 5mg of melatonin stocked aside for the nights that are really unbearable. Chills are still in full affect. You said the emotional part really sets in after the physical illls, I'm already overly emotional so does this mean I'm going through the emotional part now or is the worst of that yet to come?? The clumsiness hasn't subsided. I'm really worried about this new schooling I'll be starting on the 25th. I could post pone it but the next enrollment isn't until august.

Pretty much I'm isolating. I always isolate and then fall deep into depression.  I've diagnosed and have bipolar disorder so I'm thinking that too is setting in. I know what everyone's next reaction is that I need to stay on meds for that but I don't like how any of them make me feel. Again I am going to set up an appointment with my counselor and go from there. Thanks for the check up. I'm hoping today was the worst day.

[gnarly_1]

Hi  how you holding up ?? if it is any thing like my detox off the stuff your not going to sleep for a wile like just start to sleep in2 weeks like cat naps here and there but it takes a long wile with methadone the typical detox is 10 day to 2 weeks for the phyical detox then the emotional part really sets in  I am a mans man but cried like a baby over anything sad  it is hard to believe we where that numb your emotions come at you 100mph and the dreams are in tec/na/ color it does take some getting use to  have you hit the energy crash yet?? just know if a dope fiend like me can kick any one can just know it will get better keep posting for support we al want to see you get better.....................Gnarly...........................

[kleighn]

Thanks everyone. I will be setting an appointment to talk to my former dependency counselor and go from there. Congrats on 17 mos., VIc, Can't wait to be there.

[marycarmel]

Vic, congrats on 17 months!!  Kleighn, I feel so bad for you!  I agree with Vic about methadone being different than other meds.  Fentanyl hangs on a bit longer, though not as long as methadone.  I can remember driving with my son in the car and I just started bawling my eyes out.  Poor kid ... I scared him to death.  It's draining but it's beneficial to cry even though it can catch you off guard.

There are several people here like Vic that have experience with the methadone.  They'll guide you through this and you'll get great support from everyone.

[VICourageous]

Yes just give this  time to balance out. I came off of a very long ride with Methadone and 2 other meds 17months ago today. I will say it was a bit different in some ways compared to the other opiates. Methadone does not like to let go. It does take a bit longer, but you will get better each and every day. The crying is a good sign..Your emotions are coming back after they were suppressed from the drug use..You most likely will go through a few stages as you heal..All of the wiring in the Brain has to adjust back. While this is healing it sends a lot of singles to the body. You might feel some pain but it will go away. Sleep & Anxiety was my worse until I hit a bad weak stage..BUT I also came off of a Benzo with my Dones that played a big part in my long detox. Just make sure you are drinking plenty of fluids. Get some electrolyte powder and protein powder too..Keep taking some good plant based vit/min and make sure you eat real healthy..Try to get some kind of exercise in, even if it just a small walk..Do you plan on getting any after care?  The reason why I ask is because the detox will be over soon and the hard part is trying to stay clean..We can not due this alone. I wish you the best and just keep trucking along and know that you will experience some strange things, but it is all part of the detox..Glad you are getting your life back..Hang tight!!
Bless

[ariley13]

This will get better! I promise! It just takes time. I know how hard it is to be patient when you feel like crap. It is worth it though. Keep pushing through this and doing as much as you can to keep busy. Taking a ride was a good idea. If things get too intense, or become too much, take a time out. Take a hot bath and listen to some music. Go in a quiet room and lie down for 15 minutes. Go for a brisk walk to clear your head. Do whatever you have to do to decompress a little. (Except use of course!!) You are doing a great job. 5 days is something to be proud of. Keep on pushing through this and you will be out the other side in no time.

[motye51]

Hold tight!!!! Remember there

[Frankenkristin]

Hey lady, it's gonna be okay. Remember? We're warriors. I know it's hard to forget, but it's almost over, and these next few days are going to feel like millennia, but they'll be over, and then look at how strong you were, normal people couldn't make it through this, only us, the secret bad *** society. Turn the radio louder, and scream, and cry. This will end, and you will feel better!