Aa
Problem Drinking and Drugs, Alcohilsm
[Big Q ... sorry :-)]
I am very confused about the distinction between problem drinking, controlled drinking, alcoholism, addiction from what I have read here and elsewhere about such distinction, thought I'll share my situation here.
I have been struggling with drinking and other substance abuse for some time now and I am very confused about where I am, on the one hand I do have some amount (only just) of self control and I will not slide down after a point. I go to meetings and find others who have gone on much much farther than where I have gone. I am even made aware that yes I am an addict but not a hardcore one, maybe on the fringe of being a hardcore addict.
(A doctor dealing with alcohol and drug addicts since about 10 years told me this last week when I meet him at his out reach center)
I have more of a problem with drugs but even that I do not take beyond a particular line. To start off, I have been drinking for about 7-8 years now. (since I was 17 I think) I had 2 bouts with drugs also in all of this, the first time it went for two years and at around 20 , I quit drugs and decided that I will only use alcohol since it is a controllable socially allowed vice. There is no question that drinking caused problems but I did not have the same appetite for alcohol an alcoholic might have; I would often drink alone but I found it boring after a couple of pegs, about a maximum of a pint of whiskey or any other hard drink like rum. When drinking alone, I never drank enough to cause vomiting, total loss of self control, black outs etc. I would only drink to that point when I was drinking with friends (It happened occasionally at first but it did slowly get to the point where each week 1nce or 2wice I would be out drinking all night with friends who were good company to drink with and occasionally get in to fights and other hassles) I didn't enjoy drinking too much when I had boring company though. This is where I was about a year and a half ago, this is how most of my weekends were spent; getting together with my drinking friend and drinking and then doing our kind of mischief, the kind that amused us a bit but not got us in to trouble too often)
and then I hated it the next day because I would have the hangovers, feeling completely lethargic for all of the next day, stomach issues etc. I hated it in the long term as well because I would schedule the weekends to catch up on my reading, catch up with certain other friends or often to simply rest and get things in perspective after a week's work. But the drinking friend of mine was too pestering and would call me and lull me anyway, he liked alcohol much more than me I could tell, it probably had a genetic component to it I guess as well. (his father died of drinking at 31) So whenever I was able to stay away from this one particular friend and another friend I had at work, I could stay away from booze or maybe slip up a little here and there but not too much.
Then after a while, I tried opioid prescription medicines with an office mate and loved it initially. This is what I got hooked on to big time, slowly but surely I was doing different stuff all together, booze, marijuana, meds all of them. I was taking only this on weekends than in the middle of the week, then on some weekdays as well (you know how it works).
After about 3 months of trying opioids, I was doing them everyday, the use of opioids I can not control I admit. I raved like this for some months until the money ran out and then I did only the meds each day.
(but still I only tried the harder stuff like hydrocodones rarely and stayed away from the dirty ones such as doing opium itself or heroin which I had tried as a teenager.)
After using codeine everyday for about a year, I have actually put on weight, I still don't look like a junkie, I can pass of a respectable member of society everywhere I go. [where they don't know I use]
But then the downside is, that much of my time and money is wasted (I'll admit I have done both crazy and low things to get the money to keep me high) with doing codeine, when I could write a blog post or read up about things I am in to now, learn this or that, meditate, find spiritual peace, go to a gym, spend time with my family or do a million other things that I'd like to do, I go out have a couple of bottles of C syrup and then go to some place of solace I like and sit contemplating nothing of importance while chain smoking ciggs or listening to music. (at first it as on an iPOD I had which I sold and then my phone which also I sold later I'll admit I got there)
Recently, many a times, I have alcohol as well.
Coming back to A drinking, I see that I can still control it, I am content with a quarter or somewhat less amounts or maybe I will have 3 beers but I don't do more because then I don't like it, I only like how you feel after 2-3 drinks, when your perception is just changing and then you get a pleasant buzz, I in fact hate it when I drink to much and the buzz is overwhelming.
Now, ever since I found about the 12 step programs, I have wanted to live the life all of those NA & AA members live; absolutely clean of everything and serene but I have not been able to do that, Often I have the urge to get back to drinking socially once again, stay of drugs, just have alcohol in moderation but the trouble is I haven't been able to get clean of C. Finally, I'll arrive the question (which you might find stupid and excruciatingly redundant) but I'll ask it anyway:
Is it ok if I can get back to drinking in a controlled manner even if I tend towards problem drinking at times. (If I can manage it which it seems to me I can)
Drugs I can not have and don't want to have, but I still feel like being able to enjoy a booze buzz every once in a while. My mind rebels when I tell it that I'll be sober of all things till I die ...
I am very confused about the distinction between problem drinking, controlled drinking, alcoholism, addiction from what I have read here and elsewhere about such distinction, thought I'll share my situation here.
I have been struggling with drinking and other substance abuse for some time now and I am very confused about where I am, on the one hand I do have some amount (only just) of self control and I will not slide down after a point. I go to meetings and find others who have gone on much much farther than where I have gone. I am even made aware that yes I am an addict but not a hardcore one, maybe on the fringe of being a hardcore addict.
(A doctor dealing with alcohol and drug addicts since about 10 years told me this last week when I meet him at his out reach center)
I have more of a problem with drugs but even that I do not take beyond a particular line. To start off, I have been drinking for about 7-8 years now. (since I was 17 I think) I had 2 bouts with drugs also in all of this, the first time it went for two years and at around 20 , I quit drugs and decided that I will only use alcohol since it is a controllable socially allowed vice. There is no question that drinking caused problems but I did not have the same appetite for alcohol an alcoholic might have; I would often drink alone but I found it boring after a couple of pegs, about a maximum of a pint of whiskey or any other hard drink like rum. When drinking alone, I never drank enough to cause vomiting, total loss of self control, black outs etc. I would only drink to that point when I was drinking with friends (It happened occasionally at first but it did slowly get to the point where each week 1nce or 2wice I would be out drinking all night with friends who were good company to drink with and occasionally get in to fights and other hassles) I didn't enjoy drinking too much when I had boring company though. This is where I was about a year and a half ago, this is how most of my weekends were spent; getting together with my drinking friend and drinking and then doing our kind of mischief, the kind that amused us a bit but not got us in to trouble too often)
and then I hated it the next day because I would have the hangovers, feeling completely lethargic for all of the next day, stomach issues etc. I hated it in the long term as well because I would schedule the weekends to catch up on my reading, catch up with certain other friends or often to simply rest and get things in perspective after a week's work. But the drinking friend of mine was too pestering and would call me and lull me anyway, he liked alcohol much more than me I could tell, it probably had a genetic component to it I guess as well. (his father died of drinking at 31) So whenever I was able to stay away from this one particular friend and another friend I had at work, I could stay away from booze or maybe slip up a little here and there but not too much.
Then after a while, I tried opioid prescription medicines with an office mate and loved it initially. This is what I got hooked on to big time, slowly but surely I was doing different stuff all together, booze, marijuana, meds all of them. I was taking only this on weekends than in the middle of the week, then on some weekdays as well (you know how it works).
After about 3 months of trying opioids, I was doing them everyday, the use of opioids I can not control I admit. I raved like this for some months until the money ran out and then I did only the meds each day.
(but still I only tried the harder stuff like hydrocodones rarely and stayed away from the dirty ones such as doing opium itself or heroin which I had tried as a teenager.)
After using codeine everyday for about a year, I have actually put on weight, I still don't look like a junkie, I can pass of a respectable member of society everywhere I go. [where they don't know I use]
But then the downside is, that much of my time and money is wasted (I'll admit I have done both crazy and low things to get the money to keep me high) with doing codeine, when I could write a blog post or read up about things I am in to now, learn this or that, meditate, find spiritual peace, go to a gym, spend time with my family or do a million other things that I'd like to do, I go out have a couple of bottles of C syrup and then go to some place of solace I like and sit contemplating nothing of importance while chain smoking ciggs or listening to music. (at first it as on an iPOD I had which I sold and then my phone which also I sold later I'll admit I got there)
Recently, many a times, I have alcohol as well.
Coming back to A drinking, I see that I can still control it, I am content with a quarter or somewhat less amounts or maybe I will have 3 beers but I don't do more because then I don't like it, I only like how you feel after 2-3 drinks, when your perception is just changing and then you get a pleasant buzz, I in fact hate it when I drink to much and the buzz is overwhelming.
Now, ever since I found about the 12 step programs, I have wanted to live the life all of those NA & AA members live; absolutely clean of everything and serene but I have not been able to do that, Often I have the urge to get back to drinking socially once again, stay of drugs, just have alcohol in moderation but the trouble is I haven't been able to get clean of C. Finally, I'll arrive the question (which you might find stupid and excruciatingly redundant) but I'll ask it anyway:
Is it ok if I can get back to drinking in a controlled manner even if I tend towards problem drinking at times. (If I can manage it which it seems to me I can)
Drugs I can not have and don't want to have, but I still feel like being able to enjoy a booze buzz every once in a while. My mind rebels when I tell it that I'll be sober of all things till I die ...
well there's good news and bad news (maybe all good depending on your perspective). i tried to do the same for years and failed horribly sooner or later. i found that i can't ingest ANY drug that quickly changes the way i feel without adverse effects. it took a while to believe it for myself because i could use for a while before things would get bad. i also discovered opiates and thought if i only do this or that i can manage. i even went on the marijuana maintenance program (more than once) but always ended up back at the same place. i found that i had abused my "right to chemical peace of mind" to a point where all of it turned on me.
as far as it being 'ok' to continue to drink, we can do anything we want. the question is are we willing to face the consequences, and how bad do the consequences have to be before we decide they are too damaging. addiction is a progressive condition that left untreated or arrested takes us to institutions and/or the grave eventually.
i guess the main point is that for myself and anyone i know with this condition, the ability to use chemicals with any degree of manageability has become impossible. and it doesn't happen overnight. you are very likely to lose much more than you might find acceptable now. the fact that you are attempting to control something suggests at the very least a problem, and at the worst it's already out of control. additionally, many people go back to their drug of choice after consuming alcohol as it lowers our inhibitions. whatever you decide, remember there are people out here who want to help you and will, if you are ready.
as far as it being 'ok' to continue to drink, we can do anything we want. the question is are we willing to face the consequences, and how bad do the consequences have to be before we decide they are too damaging. addiction is a progressive condition that left untreated or arrested takes us to institutions and/or the grave eventually.
i guess the main point is that for myself and anyone i know with this condition, the ability to use chemicals with any degree of manageability has become impossible. and it doesn't happen overnight. you are very likely to lose much more than you might find acceptable now. the fact that you are attempting to control something suggests at the very least a problem, and at the worst it's already out of control. additionally, many people go back to their drug of choice after consuming alcohol as it lowers our inhibitions. whatever you decide, remember there are people out here who want to help you and will, if you are ready.
Namaste,
Unfortunatelly, in the simplest terms, you're an alcoholic.
You have an addictive personality, lie myself, which makes us susceptible to not only an addiction to alcohol, but to most additions, such as drugs(which you know), but gambing, cigarettes, sex, etc.
12 step programs are helpful for some people and if you're really committed to such a program, make sure you have a sponsor to whom you can turn in your weak moments.
I've been were you're at and after 7 years of not drinking, I still get the ocassional urge. So understand, that it's a lifelong problem that you may have to deal with on a regular basis.
Michael(Jikan)
Unfortunatelly, in the simplest terms, you're an alcoholic.
You have an addictive personality, lie myself, which makes us susceptible to not only an addiction to alcohol, but to most additions, such as drugs(which you know), but gambing, cigarettes, sex, etc.
12 step programs are helpful for some people and if you're really committed to such a program, make sure you have a sponsor to whom you can turn in your weak moments.
I've been were you're at and after 7 years of not drinking, I still get the ocassional urge. So understand, that it's a lifelong problem that you may have to deal with on a regular basis.
Michael(Jikan)
I sure can relate to feeling that I have the "right to chemical peace of mind". When I started on opiates, for quite some time, I felt that I was just self treating my self for the disorders I have.
(I have always been a bit hyperactive, been sentimental and at the time I thought I had major problems because of things outside of my control and my using was justified)
only when the problems got very bad did I start accepting that I might be addicted to them. Anyways I know I am an addict but I know I am not an alcoholic because I don't have that much of a taste for it. I will try and get back to drinking only and drinking socially only. The only problem major problem I have had is that alcohol lowers inhibitions and I am likely to go back to abusing my choice of substance. But if I can get back to where I was a year-n-a-half ago where I only drank and no matter what stayed away from any other kind of drugs, I'll be fine, I'll try and get back there ...
(I have always been a bit hyperactive, been sentimental and at the time I thought I had major problems because of things outside of my control and my using was justified)
only when the problems got very bad did I start accepting that I might be addicted to them. Anyways I know I am an addict but I know I am not an alcoholic because I don't have that much of a taste for it. I will try and get back to drinking only and drinking socially only. The only problem major problem I have had is that alcohol lowers inhibitions and I am likely to go back to abusing my choice of substance. But if I can get back to where I was a year-n-a-half ago where I only drank and no matter what stayed away from any other kind of drugs, I'll be fine, I'll try and get back there ...
if you have crossed the line with opiates or anything else, your chances of success are slim to none. i can't say this with 100% certainty because my psychic powers went away after i stopped drinking and using other substances, but the evidence of countless others is my rationale. i wish i could go back too sometimes, before the angels became demons, but there is no reversal to my addictive nature. it took me a lot of pain and suffering to realize this--i was offered a solution 15 years ago. the solution never changed, i did. alcohol is no different when used to change the way we feel. it is legal mainly because it is a multi billion dollar industry and it has millions of customers. other drugs are not any more damaging in those who use them to excess. the gangs and other organized criminal enterprises who deal are simply cashing in on a high demand and violence is part of the business plan. do some research on the prohibition era and you'll see why our streets are no longer safe. it's called profit motive.
sorry i didn't intend to get into black market economics.
it's not the substance, it's what the substance changes, disrupts, increases, or decreases biochemically. get yourself copies of the aa and na basic texts. if you read them and remain true to yourself, you might just avoid the horrors some of us have imposed upon ourselves and discover that life can be beautiful without numbing your perceptions. or you might do what i did and years from now realize that you wish you'd listened to the things you heard , the first time you heard them. there are alternatives to any problems or difficulties you may have besides intoxication. many of us die before becoming open to them.
sorry i didn't intend to get into black market economics.
it's not the substance, it's what the substance changes, disrupts, increases, or decreases biochemically. get yourself copies of the aa and na basic texts. if you read them and remain true to yourself, you might just avoid the horrors some of us have imposed upon ourselves and discover that life can be beautiful without numbing your perceptions. or you might do what i did and years from now realize that you wish you'd listened to the things you heard , the first time you heard them. there are alternatives to any problems or difficulties you may have besides intoxication. many of us die before becoming open to them.
thanks boogieman for the advice, maybe it's just the addict in me questioning the tried and tested NA/AA model that having crossed that line we can never use anything successfully again even alcohol either it will take us back to our choice of substance or it itself will become the problem, (as I understand the problem is not in the substance but how we react to them ... right?) well, all of this about being able to enjoy a buzz some times comes to my mind because my mind just can not accept the idea of living sober till the end, it rebels to that idea, the lust for drinking hit me after I heard work mates at work planning for a party this weekend which involved consumption of alcohol of course and I had to decline the invitation because I have been told I must not take in that first drink no matter what.
After thinking about it for a while I was getting depressed that I can not enjoy even an occasional binge with friends for the rest of my life and then the train of thought automatically went to wondering whether I am not an alcoholic in the first place, maybe I was just a problem drinker/user and that I can learn to drink socially ... I won't try to go back to social drinking this weekend I am sure but who knows about the future, there are no guarantees with my kind of people; maybe I'll try to become a social drinker some time in the future, if and when I do try, I may not succeed or may even succeed who knows what exactly will happen in my life.
I can only hope that the higher power I have found in the program stays with me and makes the right choices for me and I listen to the choices he made for me ...
After thinking about it for a while I was getting depressed that I can not enjoy even an occasional binge with friends for the rest of my life and then the train of thought automatically went to wondering whether I am not an alcoholic in the first place, maybe I was just a problem drinker/user and that I can learn to drink socially ... I won't try to go back to social drinking this weekend I am sure but who knows about the future, there are no guarantees with my kind of people; maybe I'll try to become a social drinker some time in the future, if and when I do try, I may not succeed or may even succeed who knows what exactly will happen in my life.
I can only hope that the higher power I have found in the program stays with me and makes the right choices for me and I listen to the choices he made for me ...
hello. glad to hear you're gonna try to stay away from booze this weekend. it doesn't happen overnight, but investing in your own recovery (meetings, reading literature, working with others, pursuit of spiritual growth) will enable you to live in a world where you won't miss the alcohol or other drugs. it is difficult at first, but it gets better.
don't worry about the rest of your life. just deal with today. we never know what the future will bring and we're not guaranteed anything beyond right now. when i quit drinking the last time (and i pray it was the last), at times i could only commit to an hour or so at a time. the withdrawal was so horrible that i could only tell myself "ok-i won't drink for the next hour, or 45 minutes". and at some points it was minute by minute. after the initial shock to the system, most people can commit to that day. not tomorrow or next week, just until they retire for the night.
a friend of mine describes it this way, when someone asks him to have a drink with them, he tells them "not today, maybe tomorrow". then he always says "you know, in over 20 years i haven't seen one tomorrow. it's always today". and one day at a time he's been sober 20+ years. if we follow the suggested program of aa, na, or any other spiritually based plan to the best of our ability, one day at a time abstinence becomes a very manageable way to attain a life we only dreamed of before.
once again, best wishes and most of all keep coming back to this site and the rooms of recovery. there are a lot of folks that have "been there" and are willing to help--no matter what you may do.
don't worry about the rest of your life. just deal with today. we never know what the future will bring and we're not guaranteed anything beyond right now. when i quit drinking the last time (and i pray it was the last), at times i could only commit to an hour or so at a time. the withdrawal was so horrible that i could only tell myself "ok-i won't drink for the next hour, or 45 minutes". and at some points it was minute by minute. after the initial shock to the system, most people can commit to that day. not tomorrow or next week, just until they retire for the night.
a friend of mine describes it this way, when someone asks him to have a drink with them, he tells them "not today, maybe tomorrow". then he always says "you know, in over 20 years i haven't seen one tomorrow. it's always today". and one day at a time he's been sober 20+ years. if we follow the suggested program of aa, na, or any other spiritually based plan to the best of our ability, one day at a time abstinence becomes a very manageable way to attain a life we only dreamed of before.
once again, best wishes and most of all keep coming back to this site and the rooms of recovery. there are a lot of folks that have "been there" and are willing to help--no matter what you may do.
I've had to face that I have an addictive personality (seems to run in the family) and being a control freak I'm always trying to control what it is I'm addicted to, but of course our addictions really control us. I'm definitely a "problem drinker" aka alcoholic, and I have smoked marijuana since I was 19. Not giving that one up. I'm convinced that it has kept me from being addicted to prescription drugs. Everybody I know is on Xanax plus antidepressants plus alcohol plus pain killers. I figure beer, pot, and potato chips will kill me slower than tequila, meth, oxycontin, and effexor, not to mention tobacco, which is killing three members of my immediate family.
COMMUNITY LEADER
oh mama..oh don't take that pot away from me..i once thought like u...never give up that pot...but got cotton mouth and alcoholic brain thougth oh i can handle one.......and u know the rest of the story!Alcoholism/addiction like Judy Garland at the end of Wizard of Oz when she says to Glenda the good witch angrily...u knew i knew how to get back to Kansas the whole time...why didn't u tell me?Glenda giggles waves her wand and replies Cuz u never woulda b-lieved me..u had 2 find our for urself.......and my dear u will!doing another drug that is not ur drug of choice will lead u back 2 ur drug of choice...and u will find that out!
yeah, probably so, but it is my journey to do my way. I once had a therapist say he wouldn't treat me until I read "I'm okay, you're okay" and gave up pot. I said it was ironic that I was seeking therapy for issues about conditional love.
"You'll find out" scolding doesn't work with me. I'm aware of all the rationalizations and ins and outs. I come from a family of alcoholics. What worked was somebody's suggestion to check out Women for Sobriety. They seem like the type of support network I'm looking for.
"You'll find out" scolding doesn't work with me. I'm aware of all the rationalizations and ins and outs. I come from a family of alcoholics. What worked was somebody's suggestion to check out Women for Sobriety. They seem like the type of support network I'm looking for.
COMMUNITY LEADER
i wasn't scolding u dear.....just a factual statement that u'll find out in ur journey!and it was I who suggested the WFS!
COMMUNITY LEADER
Bear with me.....dayjob substance abuse counselor...sober and clean going on 25 years.I watch ppl ruin their lives on a daily basis with alcohol and drugs..it is very sad.I have a wit and sense of humor to make a point also helps me keep my sanity in dayjob.......i 2 thought like u years ago..it was not meant to scold....and i won't apologize for pointing out the truth!i 2 have been where ur at.....and i never 4 get that.Best of luck 2 u thruout ur journey!
a counselor *** doctor working with druggists and alcoholics for 10+ years just like you told me that I am not a hardcore addict at all, that I haven't done enough, I needn't worry that much and that everything will work out on its own ... how do I think and act now I don't know ...
I'm kind of in the same place, where I seem to be the only one who thinks I have a problem. I'm not a closet drinker. I drink my beer in plain sight for everybody to see, and the most I've gotten is my sweet husband (who also drinks a bit too much beer) telling me that the beer is contributing to my belly fat, which is bad for my health.
Years ago, during one of my several quitting pot phases, I decided to attend a NA meeting to see if I could get some help. I felt that becoming a lifetime smoker wasn't necessarily in my best interest, so maybe I should try to dump it before it became a problem. Well, that was certainly a mistake. I felt like a complete fool in that meeting, and NO I did not speak up. Virtually every person in that meeting had had their life destroyed by drugs. The usual. Ruined marraiges, lost jobs, estranged families, police records, you name it. And there I was, thinking maybe smoking was kinda bad for my lungs.
THAT is one of the reasons I started my other thread about alternatives to AA, because it IS important to find a good fit if you are going to stick with it. Not everybody is so far down the road, so desperate, that they will try anything, even if it doesn't really work for them. I'm not desperate. I'm concerned. One of the main reasons I drink too much is because I can't find a place in this world where I feel like I belong. Why would I seek help someplace where i don't feel even a faint sense that I could eventually belong? I need to find a group, like WFS, that focuses on the kinds of things that got me here in the first place, so that I can work on those, and that provides the kind of supportive environment that makes me want to come back.
Years ago, during one of my several quitting pot phases, I decided to attend a NA meeting to see if I could get some help. I felt that becoming a lifetime smoker wasn't necessarily in my best interest, so maybe I should try to dump it before it became a problem. Well, that was certainly a mistake. I felt like a complete fool in that meeting, and NO I did not speak up. Virtually every person in that meeting had had their life destroyed by drugs. The usual. Ruined marraiges, lost jobs, estranged families, police records, you name it. And there I was, thinking maybe smoking was kinda bad for my lungs.
THAT is one of the reasons I started my other thread about alternatives to AA, because it IS important to find a good fit if you are going to stick with it. Not everybody is so far down the road, so desperate, that they will try anything, even if it doesn't really work for them. I'm not desperate. I'm concerned. One of the main reasons I drink too much is because I can't find a place in this world where I feel like I belong. Why would I seek help someplace where i don't feel even a faint sense that I could eventually belong? I need to find a group, like WFS, that focuses on the kinds of things that got me here in the first place, so that I can work on those, and that provides the kind of supportive environment that makes me want to come back.
And one of the interesting facts I gleaned from the WFS site was that they started the organization because the numbers showed that women were less likely to become successful recovering alcoholics/addicts using traditional programs like AA. They came to the conclusion that many women need a different approach if they are to be successful. So...they fully support my contention that one size does NOT fit all in the realm of recovery programs and that people should seek what works.
Hears a question for you when you ingest alchol or drugs can you stop at one? or does the obsession kick in and then the choas etc follows?If so their might be an answer to you question
sooo...if you have two alcoholics, one who drinks alcohol and smokes pot and drinks coffee, and one who drinks alcohol, smokes cigarettes, and drinks coffee, is the one who smokes pot supposed to quit that too, but nobody cares about the cigarettes (hugely addictive and a death sentence) or the coffee (yes, that is an addiction too)? Just wondering. You picked right up on my pot smoking, yet I don't see anything on this forum about quitting other big addictions like cigarettes and coffee.
Cigarettes are killing my mother, yet alcohol just made her act like a mean jerk a few times in her life.
If you go to an AA meeting that isn't nonsmoking, you find a bunch of "recovering" addicts chain smoking and chugging coffee.
And what about religious addiction? I've seen alcoholics turn into braindead converts because they needed another addiction to make up for the one they lost.
And don't give me bull about this being my way to avoid stuff. Long before I began questioning my growing alcohol dependence this question has bugged me. It's a big logical gap in the whole "addictive personality" gotta quit everything mentality.
And don't tell me that people don't use cigarettes and coffee to alter their mental/emotional state/numb themselves or whatever, because that is just not true. They are mind/body altering substances with very high addictive potential.
And if I sound annoyed, I am, because I've run into this blind spot over and over.
Maybe some of this other addiction gets worked on in the background, but you jumped right on my pot smoking, even though I am one of the least medicated people I know. I don't see a single thread about cigarette addiction, which, by the way, often has a very tight connection with drinking (trigger), aside from its own deadly addiction potential.
Cigarettes are killing my mother, yet alcohol just made her act like a mean jerk a few times in her life.
If you go to an AA meeting that isn't nonsmoking, you find a bunch of "recovering" addicts chain smoking and chugging coffee.
And what about religious addiction? I've seen alcoholics turn into braindead converts because they needed another addiction to make up for the one they lost.
And don't give me bull about this being my way to avoid stuff. Long before I began questioning my growing alcohol dependence this question has bugged me. It's a big logical gap in the whole "addictive personality" gotta quit everything mentality.
And don't tell me that people don't use cigarettes and coffee to alter their mental/emotional state/numb themselves or whatever, because that is just not true. They are mind/body altering substances with very high addictive potential.
And if I sound annoyed, I am, because I've run into this blind spot over and over.
Maybe some of this other addiction gets worked on in the background, but you jumped right on my pot smoking, even though I am one of the least medicated people I know. I don't see a single thread about cigarette addiction, which, by the way, often has a very tight connection with drinking (trigger), aside from its own deadly addiction potential.
the bottom line here is that there is a way out for anyone who wants it. it isn't necessary to visit the depths of hell that many find themselves in before recovery can begin. recovery is not for those that need it, it's for the ones that want it. the principles are not usually easy pills to swallow, however the alternative of continuing to slowly destroy myself and the relationships with those i care about made the decision easier. and i used my college educated mind to fight this thing tooth and nail until i finally conceded that my ways and methods did not work. the cemeteries, mental institutions, and prisons are full of people who would not or could not surrender their will in order to achieve a way of life that doesn't require intoxication. the substitution or combination of multiple substances was explained to me as follows:
if i'm tied to a tree (representative of negative effects) with several ropes (representative of intoxicating substances--say alcohol, pot, cocaine and pain pills), and all the ropes are removed except one, i'm still tied to the tree. it's not until i'm free of them all, that i can put distance between myself and the harmful repercussions. tobacco, caffeine, and even things like gambling and overeating-- while potentially harmful --do not impair judgement and result in things like dui or actions that pose immediate threats to myself and others. by trying to identify rather than compare , i can honestly confront my demons, and take action to rid them from my life.
best wishes, gm
if i'm tied to a tree (representative of negative effects) with several ropes (representative of intoxicating substances--say alcohol, pot, cocaine and pain pills), and all the ropes are removed except one, i'm still tied to the tree. it's not until i'm free of them all, that i can put distance between myself and the harmful repercussions. tobacco, caffeine, and even things like gambling and overeating-- while potentially harmful --do not impair judgement and result in things like dui or actions that pose immediate threats to myself and others. by trying to identify rather than compare , i can honestly confront my demons, and take action to rid them from my life.
best wishes, gm
I just have to say again, cigarettes are a death sentence, and the surgeon general has said that NO amount of smoke, first or second hand, is safe. Every cigarette poses an immediate threat to the person smoking it and anybody else around. Just because they die more slowly than a car crash does not make the person any less dead. And the longer they are tied to that particular rope, the less hope they have to escape. To say, "if I smoke this cigarette I won't crash into anybody and kill them, therefore this is the lesser addiction" does not make sense to me. I'm a HUGE supporter of getting drinkers off the roads, but that does not detract from this other big addiction problem. Yes, this is an alcoholism forum, but again, another addiction was pointed out immediately, and it wasn't cigarettes. As for cigarettes not being a threat in vehicles, you might want to do a little research on that.
there is no doubt that things like tobacco use and overeating are harmful and costly, but for this alcoholic, the distinction between harmful and lethal had become clear. if things haven't gotten bad enough yet, the suggestion i always hear is to go do some more drinking and/or using until i've had enough. i have told others the same thing and it's hard to do because some people don't make it back to try sobriety again. one does not have to be a stereotypical end stage drunk to die out there. this may sound cruel, but i know today that it's an expression of "tough love." for there to be a reasonable expectation of success, most alcoholics/addicts have to be willing to go to any length to achieve and maintain sobriety. and this involves doing things that we are afraid of. to anyone who is questioning their situation and what their alternatives may be, do yourself a favor and read the first 164 pages of the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" with an open mind.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance---that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ----Herbert Spencer
best wishes, gm
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance---that principle is contempt prior to investigation." ----Herbert Spencer
best wishes, gm
There is a forum for discussing smoking addiction and a forum for discussing other substance abuse. I doubt you're interesting in checking either out, but I'm putting them up anyway. :P Maybe for the more interested people who are really curious to help themselves than the trolls who like to get reaction.
Smoking:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/159
Substances (I assume Mary Jane can be discussed there too):
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/77
My addiction is computer games (not substances)... I have to apply the one day at a time at times I feel like it would be okay just to log on and play a little... I'm sure for most playing an online game is not harmful and in fact a good way to spend time. It isn't for me... I could try to control my amount of time spent, but soon find I'd be up all night and for the better part of the day...
I guess when it boils down to addiction, I rather spend my time doing something that can potentially help others and make me feel productive (such as writing and posting on forums) than play a game, get all competitive and grouchy, as well as watch my self esteem and self worth drop if I can't make a high score chart... You're right the addiction doesn't always have to come from the supposed "worse" things... It can come from things considered minor or petty by society.
BTW my mom is a recovered (tobacco) smoker. I don't remember how many years exactly (it is well over 10 years I'm sure). I am very proud of her for quitting. She quit CT with lots of prayer and faith after developing a case of bronchial asthma.
Smoking:
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/159
Substances (I assume Mary Jane can be discussed there too):
http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/77
My addiction is computer games (not substances)... I have to apply the one day at a time at times I feel like it would be okay just to log on and play a little... I'm sure for most playing an online game is not harmful and in fact a good way to spend time. It isn't for me... I could try to control my amount of time spent, but soon find I'd be up all night and for the better part of the day...
I guess when it boils down to addiction, I rather spend my time doing something that can potentially help others and make me feel productive (such as writing and posting on forums) than play a game, get all competitive and grouchy, as well as watch my self esteem and self worth drop if I can't make a high score chart... You're right the addiction doesn't always have to come from the supposed "worse" things... It can come from things considered minor or petty by society.
BTW my mom is a recovered (tobacco) smoker. I don't remember how many years exactly (it is well over 10 years I'm sure). I am very proud of her for quitting. She quit CT with lots of prayer and faith after developing a case of bronchial asthma.
If I look back at own experience and think about whether I can control the use of any substance be it alcohol or drugs of any kind, I know immediately that I can not. It's only in your weaker moments in which you are very very tempted to use do you buy your own addicted mind's arguments such as
'this is not as bad as injecting heroin or smoking cocaine' or 'a couple of drinks won't be that bad for me, no matter what I won't have any more than that and it's just today I am drinking, no more drinking till at least a week after this'
this goes on till the day you really know, know it in your heart that it's a lie, you use once and you are gone. Once you really know that you are a slave to using can you hope to stop.
and about cigarettes and coffee I am strongly for the approach that junkies and alcoholics shouldn't be bothered with trying to quit nicotine and caffeine while trying to give up their bigger addictions.
You see a hardcore junkie never cares enuf anyway, he/she won't brush his teeth, take showers, make sure he/she is wearing good clothes, how can they care about cancers or tumors which will come 25-30 years later (If the alcoholic/addict lives that long in the first place).
Junkies have never cared enough about their bodies anyway when they use so very dangerous drugs even injecting them
I have a Buddhist friend and once when I was taking about all of my bad habits even cigarettes and not just booze and drugs, he told me that ciggs n caffeine are ok really for me, according to him Buddha had once said that you should in fact not care about the small vices you may have because these small vices can save you from bigger ones.
'this is not as bad as injecting heroin or smoking cocaine' or 'a couple of drinks won't be that bad for me, no matter what I won't have any more than that and it's just today I am drinking, no more drinking till at least a week after this'
this goes on till the day you really know, know it in your heart that it's a lie, you use once and you are gone. Once you really know that you are a slave to using can you hope to stop.
and about cigarettes and coffee I am strongly for the approach that junkies and alcoholics shouldn't be bothered with trying to quit nicotine and caffeine while trying to give up their bigger addictions.
You see a hardcore junkie never cares enuf anyway, he/she won't brush his teeth, take showers, make sure he/she is wearing good clothes, how can they care about cancers or tumors which will come 25-30 years later (If the alcoholic/addict lives that long in the first place).
Junkies have never cared enough about their bodies anyway when they use so very dangerous drugs even injecting them
I have a Buddhist friend and once when I was taking about all of my bad habits even cigarettes and not just booze and drugs, he told me that ciggs n caffeine are ok really for me, according to him Buddha had once said that you should in fact not care about the small vices you may have because these small vices can save you from bigger ones.
and mama I can relate to that, the members I find in NA are coming from the streets lost everything, been to jail, some have been to jails more than once and I am there because I about think codeine and alcohol might be doing to my liver. They don't have codeine pills here, so the only source is Codeine Cough syrups in which they put a lot-n-lot of sugar to mask the bitter taste of codeine, now I have a stomach like that of a pregnant lady because of all the drinking and codeine which I have been doing everyday since about a year now, I sweat a lot whenever I am out and I feel so lethargic.
Members come from all backgrounds, rich, middle class and poor but almost all of them have gone to extremes I can't think of going to (at least as yet). This is one reason I can't fit in completely in NA. I am also looking for a place where I belong but so far haven't been able to find one ...
Members come from all backgrounds, rich, middle class and poor but almost all of them have gone to extremes I can't think of going to (at least as yet). This is one reason I can't fit in completely in NA. I am also looking for a place where I belong but so far haven't been able to find one ...
COMMUNITY LEADER
"I have a stomach of a pregnant lady cuz of all the drinking and codeine...."Most of them have gone to xtremes that i haven't...yet..."is not ur distended stomach an xtreme?maybe u go to NA and compare urself out of room....well i haven't done THIS yet...i'm not as bad as them....YET...yet awaits for u!don't wait for the yet to come.....also like what the Buddhist guy said about smaller addictions....alcoholics/addicts have much to give up at first.....if the smoking is to go the person has 2 WANT to give that up...and in time that will come is the person is committed to stopping....note the word committed!
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