Aa
Can Panic/ Anixiety be dangerous
Can Panic/ Anxiety be dangerous like cause heart attacks stroke etc..... is it dangerous to have them alot i take my blood pressure when i'm having one and its way up like 173/110 and my normal is 138/85ish
Amazing, isn't it, that a simple question, with a simple answer, can open such a complex can of worms!
Welcome to the Anxiety Forum! LOL
Just read nursegirls answer because that is the correct and simple answer.
If you have any more questions, please let us know. We'll try not to turn them into a three ring circus.
Peace
Greenlydia
Welcome to the Anxiety Forum! LOL
Just read nursegirls answer because that is the correct and simple answer.
If you have any more questions, please let us know. We'll try not to turn them into a three ring circus.
Peace
Greenlydia
Hi there!
Not sure what your "wow" means, but PLEASE be reassured that panic is not going to kill you sweetie.
How are you feeling? What are you doing to address the anxiety?
Not sure what your "wow" means, but PLEASE be reassured that panic is not going to kill you sweetie.
How are you feeling? What are you doing to address the anxiety?
Hi Paxiled,
Unfortunately the number of people who actually do their homework isn't enough. I get the impression that this idea of a chemical imbalance is still a term that gets thrown around by people in high places.
Now as I too am a contrarian, I have to take objection to everyone putting quotations around pain. I actually have chest pain, sharp stabbing pain, burning sensations, headaches, etc. So when I see "pain" it makes me wonder what people are thinking here. All the panic attacks I have had I would consider painful also. Do you not consider what you experience pain (worthy of being written without quotations)?
In regards to psychology, there could not have been psychologists a very long time ago because there was no understanding of the scientific method. Not that psychology is very scientific at least not compared to the hard sciences. But I guess there was always someone to go to and probably just as much got accomplished for people like us by doctors now as people back then by shamans.
I agree that if something works we should use it. If talking about our condition helps or some other kind of therapy then yes do that and tell others about it. If medication helps then yes take it and tell others about it. But also say "This therapy and/or this medication helps us, but we do not know why and there is no good scientific theory that explains why." Make it clear that we are doing only what works because it works and it only works for some and we do not know why that is either. (Also that is interesting that the Chinese believe anxiety is do to weak kidneys. That is not so far from my own interpretation.)
Unfortunately the number of people who actually do their homework isn't enough. I get the impression that this idea of a chemical imbalance is still a term that gets thrown around by people in high places.
Now as I too am a contrarian, I have to take objection to everyone putting quotations around pain. I actually have chest pain, sharp stabbing pain, burning sensations, headaches, etc. So when I see "pain" it makes me wonder what people are thinking here. All the panic attacks I have had I would consider painful also. Do you not consider what you experience pain (worthy of being written without quotations)?
In regards to psychology, there could not have been psychologists a very long time ago because there was no understanding of the scientific method. Not that psychology is very scientific at least not compared to the hard sciences. But I guess there was always someone to go to and probably just as much got accomplished for people like us by doctors now as people back then by shamans.
I agree that if something works we should use it. If talking about our condition helps or some other kind of therapy then yes do that and tell others about it. If medication helps then yes take it and tell others about it. But also say "This therapy and/or this medication helps us, but we do not know why and there is no good scientific theory that explains why." Make it clear that we are doing only what works because it works and it only works for some and we do not know why that is either. (Also that is interesting that the Chinese believe anxiety is do to weak kidneys. That is not so far from my own interpretation.)
Hi Claire,
I understand you are just trying to reassure chevy man that he is not going to have a heart attack. I agree with you completely. I find the part about the 24% decrease in deaths from heart attack in panic attack patients very interesting. And I agree with you on almost everything you said in your last post. Also, I am sorry if I implied or actually thought at the time of posting that you endorsed the serotonin hypothesis. I just really think it is important that we do not make or continue to propagate these bad assumptions. And yes if the drugs help by all means use whatever works for you but be knowledgeable of the side effects. It was good to talk to you.:)
I understand you are just trying to reassure chevy man that he is not going to have a heart attack. I agree with you completely. I find the part about the 24% decrease in deaths from heart attack in panic attack patients very interesting. And I agree with you on almost everything you said in your last post. Also, I am sorry if I implied or actually thought at the time of posting that you endorsed the serotonin hypothesis. I just really think it is important that we do not make or continue to propagate these bad assumptions. And yes if the drugs help by all means use whatever works for you but be knowledgeable of the side effects. It was good to talk to you.:)
Of course I have to chime in here, this is right up my contrarian alley. First, 10mr, anyone doing their homework has known for decades now that serotonin isn't the cause of anxiety attacks. Nobody has ever been found to have less or more serotonin than anyone else on a statistical basis that would indicate everything. You are right, it has been settled long ago that the pharmaceutical companies made up the concept of serotonin deficiency, but even they aren't arguing that anymore. Most current research on anxiety is focused on the amygdyla, but as that's part of the primitive brain nobody's been able to unlock its secrets yet. Depression research is now focused mostly on glutamine. But to draw from that concession that antidepressants don't work, well, you admitted they work in that they do reduce the "pain" for many people. They also alter the way the brain works, possibly permanently, so they may also cause unwanted other "pain," as most drugs do. But if therapy doesn't work, and you can't find this heart disease you're talking about even if it exists because it hasn't yet manifested itself in any detectable form, then dulling the pain may be the only thing we can do. As for there being no psychologists 10,000 years ago, how do you know that? There have been shamans and healers as long as there as been recorded history, and humans have used plant medicine and spiritual healing as long as we have recorded history, and what is that but psychology and psychopharmacology? Personally, I'm 60, have had agoraphobia for decades, Paxil withdrawal destroyed my life completely 8 years ago, and yet I show no sign whatsoever or either circulatory or heart problems. I can't say you're wrong, but you can't say you're right, either, so in this area until you find actual heart attacks and deaths occurring out of proportion to what's going to kill us all off anyway no matter if we suffer anxiety or not we really have little of substance to discuss here. Better we discuss what has worked for some people, which is therapy or changing how one thinks. It doesn't work for the majority of people, but it does work sometimes. As do drugs, which certainly don't cure anything but can make an intolerable life liveable. The real issue is when to use what modality so we don't create harm where the problem wasn't severe enough to resort to chemical treatments the body has a very hard time handling. There are also many people over centuries who got relief from natural medicine, and still do. In Chinese medicine they believe anxiety is caused by weak kidneys, and they've been doing this a whole lot longer than pharmaceutical companies have been trying to increase their market through false advertising. Better to leave us things we can actually try than tell us it's hopeless until some future time when the issues you describe can actually be found, because we're alive now. Peace.
Oh, dear... my intent was to reassure the OP and I'm afraid that this discussion could run pretty far afield if we keep this up. :)
You said: "I have to strongly disagree with you when you say there is no casual link between anxiety/panic disorder and heart disease the link i gave does make that case."
What I said was that the study had not proved a causal relationship, and the study's lead says that herself, stating that its findings could be the result of "initial misdiagnosis of CHD as panic attacks, or a true underlying increased risk of CHD with panic attacks. Clinicians should be vigilant for this possibility when diagnosing and treating people presenting with symptoms of panic..." I agree with that, and applaud chevy man and his doc for following all leads.
You said: "A 38% greater likelyhood of having a heart attack is a very significant amount."
I guess it would depend on what it was 38% of. The study's lead went on to say that "less than three in 10,000 men and less than two in 10,000 women under 40 diagnosed by their GP with panic attacks will go on to have a heart attack. In your 40s the risk of heart attacks is higher, but it is still less than four in 1,000 men with panic attacks and less than one in 1,000 women."
For those who who take the time -- as chevy man and his diligent doctor did -- to rule out cardiac origins of their symptoms, I would wager that the odds of having a heart attack are even lower, and chevy man can take comfort in that.
Even more encouraging: "when the researchers looked at deaths amongst adults diagnosed with panic attacks/disorder, they found that for all ages the risk of death from heart disease was reduced by about a quarter (24%) compared with the normal population."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081210205042.htm
The Guardian could have put that in the headline, but it wouldn't have been nearly as provocative... nor reassuring to those who suffer from panic attacks.
Your describing my reasoning as ex juvantibus is interesting in light of the straw man argument that follows it. :) The claim that serotonin levels cause anxiety/depression symptoms isn't mine, and I speak of controlling symptoms, rather than "pretend(ing) that this is fixing the problem".
In your article, the NIMH states, "[T]he DEMONSTRATED (emphasis mine) efficacy of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors…cannot be used as primary evidence for serotonergic dysfunction in the pathophysiology of these disorders”, and I agree with that, as I stated in my earlier post. IOW, the meds relieve the symptoms for many people, even if scientists can't agree on the reason.
All that said, I don't want the OP's topic to get bogged down any further (especially since chevy man didn't ask about much of this), so I'll bow out now. On a positive note, we've probably lulled chevy man and everyone else into a nice restful sleep with all of this. :)
Claire
You said: "I have to strongly disagree with you when you say there is no casual link between anxiety/panic disorder and heart disease the link i gave does make that case."
What I said was that the study had not proved a causal relationship, and the study's lead says that herself, stating that its findings could be the result of "initial misdiagnosis of CHD as panic attacks, or a true underlying increased risk of CHD with panic attacks. Clinicians should be vigilant for this possibility when diagnosing and treating people presenting with symptoms of panic..." I agree with that, and applaud chevy man and his doc for following all leads.
You said: "A 38% greater likelyhood of having a heart attack is a very significant amount."
I guess it would depend on what it was 38% of. The study's lead went on to say that "less than three in 10,000 men and less than two in 10,000 women under 40 diagnosed by their GP with panic attacks will go on to have a heart attack. In your 40s the risk of heart attacks is higher, but it is still less than four in 1,000 men with panic attacks and less than one in 1,000 women."
For those who who take the time -- as chevy man and his diligent doctor did -- to rule out cardiac origins of their symptoms, I would wager that the odds of having a heart attack are even lower, and chevy man can take comfort in that.
Even more encouraging: "when the researchers looked at deaths amongst adults diagnosed with panic attacks/disorder, they found that for all ages the risk of death from heart disease was reduced by about a quarter (24%) compared with the normal population."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081210205042.htm
The Guardian could have put that in the headline, but it wouldn't have been nearly as provocative... nor reassuring to those who suffer from panic attacks.
Your describing my reasoning as ex juvantibus is interesting in light of the straw man argument that follows it. :) The claim that serotonin levels cause anxiety/depression symptoms isn't mine, and I speak of controlling symptoms, rather than "pretend(ing) that this is fixing the problem".
In your article, the NIMH states, "[T]he DEMONSTRATED (emphasis mine) efficacy of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors…cannot be used as primary evidence for serotonergic dysfunction in the pathophysiology of these disorders”, and I agree with that, as I stated in my earlier post. IOW, the meds relieve the symptoms for many people, even if scientists can't agree on the reason.
All that said, I don't want the OP's topic to get bogged down any further (especially since chevy man didn't ask about much of this), so I'll bow out now. On a positive note, we've probably lulled chevy man and everyone else into a nice restful sleep with all of this. :)
Claire
Claire with respect to you as a moderator, I have to strongly disagree with you when you say there is no casual link between anxiety/panic disorder and heart disease the link i gave does make that case:
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2008/12December/Pages/Panicattacksheartrisk.aspx
"This study looked at 57, 615 UK patients who had been diagnosed as having panic attacks. It found that those under 50 years of age were 38% more likely to suffer a heart attack than similar patients who did not have panic attacks. There was no significant difference in risk in older age groups."
A 38% greater likelyhood of having a heart attack is a very significant amount. You say "It's not responsible to imply that anxiety and panic cause heart attacks and strokes as no causal relationship has been proved". Researchers thought it was important enough to do a study on and they came up with a significant statistic and you think it is not responsible to relay that information. Really?!!
"While there may be no "proof" that a serotonin deficiency is the culprit in mood disorders, neuroscience is well-acquainted with the structures of the limbic system and its functions (and dysfunctions), so it's not accurate to say that there is no underlying physical cause."
You are technically right here if the problem was found to be some kind of problem that doctors could identify with the limbic system. So how many of us have went to the doctor and had our limbic system checked for wiring problems. I am sure everyone here has got an mri of the brain and had neuroscientists check their limbic systems specifically for "dysfunction". The truth is neuroscientists havent a clue how the brain creates emotion on a functional level or how the brain's wiring might interpret those emotions and manifest them as a panic attack. The brain isn't well understood at all. On the Wikipedia page for limbic system under the topic Academic Dispute in reference to the limbic system it says this:
"Still, there remains much controversy over the use of the term. When it was first coined, it was posited as the emotional center of the brain, with cognition being the business of the neocortex by contrast. However, this almost immediately ran into trouble when damage to the hippocampus, a primary limbic structure, was shown to result in severe cognitive (memory) deficits. And since its inception, the delineating boundaries of the limbic system have been changed again and again by the neuroscience community. More recently, attempts have been made to salvage the concept through more precise definition, but there are still no generally accepted criteria for defining its parts. As a concept grounded more in tradition than in facts, some scientists have suggested that the concept should be considered obsolete and abandoned.[4]"
So the confidence you have that neuroscientists really understand this stuff is what is irresposible to claim.
You say, "Until all of the research is in (that will be never), however, we do have ample research into the effectiveness of certain meds in controlling anxiety and panic."
Research provided by who? The link I gave above says this:
"With direct proof of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder lacking, the claimed efficacy of SSRIs is often cited as indirect support for the serotonin hypothesis. Yet, this ex juvantibus line of reasoning (i.e., reasoning “backwards” to make assumptions about disease causation based on the response of the disease to a treatment) is logically problematic—the fact that aspirin cures headaches does not prove that headaches are due to low levels of aspirin in the brain. Serotonin researchers from the US National Institute of Mental Health Laboratory of Clinical Science clearly state, “[T]he demonstrated efficacy of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors…cannot be used as primary evidence for serotonergic dysfunction in the pathophysiology of these disorders” [12]."
These drugs that the pharmaceutical companies are turning out work the same on everyone even people who are not anxious or have panic attacks. They act like pain killers. If you are in pain it is fine to take a pain killer but do not pretend that this is fixing the problem anymore than an asprine is fixing the headache. Now people are paying the price for these drugs which were not fully understood:
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Anxiety/Paxil-Withdrawal/show/727782
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2008/12December/Pages/Panicattacksheartrisk.aspx
"This study looked at 57, 615 UK patients who had been diagnosed as having panic attacks. It found that those under 50 years of age were 38% more likely to suffer a heart attack than similar patients who did not have panic attacks. There was no significant difference in risk in older age groups."
A 38% greater likelyhood of having a heart attack is a very significant amount. You say "It's not responsible to imply that anxiety and panic cause heart attacks and strokes as no causal relationship has been proved". Researchers thought it was important enough to do a study on and they came up with a significant statistic and you think it is not responsible to relay that information. Really?!!
"While there may be no "proof" that a serotonin deficiency is the culprit in mood disorders, neuroscience is well-acquainted with the structures of the limbic system and its functions (and dysfunctions), so it's not accurate to say that there is no underlying physical cause."
You are technically right here if the problem was found to be some kind of problem that doctors could identify with the limbic system. So how many of us have went to the doctor and had our limbic system checked for wiring problems. I am sure everyone here has got an mri of the brain and had neuroscientists check their limbic systems specifically for "dysfunction". The truth is neuroscientists havent a clue how the brain creates emotion on a functional level or how the brain's wiring might interpret those emotions and manifest them as a panic attack. The brain isn't well understood at all. On the Wikipedia page for limbic system under the topic Academic Dispute in reference to the limbic system it says this:
"Still, there remains much controversy over the use of the term. When it was first coined, it was posited as the emotional center of the brain, with cognition being the business of the neocortex by contrast. However, this almost immediately ran into trouble when damage to the hippocampus, a primary limbic structure, was shown to result in severe cognitive (memory) deficits. And since its inception, the delineating boundaries of the limbic system have been changed again and again by the neuroscience community. More recently, attempts have been made to salvage the concept through more precise definition, but there are still no generally accepted criteria for defining its parts. As a concept grounded more in tradition than in facts, some scientists have suggested that the concept should be considered obsolete and abandoned.[4]"
So the confidence you have that neuroscientists really understand this stuff is what is irresposible to claim.
You say, "Until all of the research is in (that will be never), however, we do have ample research into the effectiveness of certain meds in controlling anxiety and panic."
Research provided by who? The link I gave above says this:
"With direct proof of serotonin deficiency in any mental disorder lacking, the claimed efficacy of SSRIs is often cited as indirect support for the serotonin hypothesis. Yet, this ex juvantibus line of reasoning (i.e., reasoning “backwards” to make assumptions about disease causation based on the response of the disease to a treatment) is logically problematic—the fact that aspirin cures headaches does not prove that headaches are due to low levels of aspirin in the brain. Serotonin researchers from the US National Institute of Mental Health Laboratory of Clinical Science clearly state, “[T]he demonstrated efficacy of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors…cannot be used as primary evidence for serotonergic dysfunction in the pathophysiology of these disorders” [12]."
These drugs that the pharmaceutical companies are turning out work the same on everyone even people who are not anxious or have panic attacks. They act like pain killers. If you are in pain it is fine to take a pain killer but do not pretend that this is fixing the problem anymore than an asprine is fixing the headache. Now people are paying the price for these drugs which were not fully understood:
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Anxiety/Paxil-Withdrawal/show/727782
Thank you so much Claire for your response...you summed up nicely what I was thinking.
And I thoroughly agree that suggesting that panic attacks or anxiety COULD by themselves cause life threatening medical emergencies is just irresponsible and inaccurate, there's NO proof of that...actually the info out there indicates that indeed, without an underlying serious medical condition, panic attacks are harmless. Many of us have had panic disorder for decades, and are still here.
I don't suffer from any kind of "pain", btw either. While I'm sure the experts will continue to study and learn more about the brain, I don't believe it will ever be possible for them to understand every little thing about it. Mental illnesses have been a part of human existence since the beginning of time..and we've come a long way since the days of believing a mentally ill person was possessed, or a witch, or the like.
We have to be ULTRA careful of what we say and imply on an anxiety forum. There are SO many issues and problems I have with the "studies" cited above..but I'll just leave my comments where they are. PLEASE let's not feed into the anxiety of people coming here for reassurance. The responsible thing is always to go to the doctor to make sure one is healthy and not at risk in any way. Besides that, there is simply no evidence that chronic anxiety or panic is life threatening.
"And stop calling what you have anxiety or panic attacks. Because those words are really hurting our chances of finding a real solution to our problems."
Actually, many of us would see it differently. We would see your stance as an obstacle in treating your own anxiety. Ironically, the vast majority of people who fight the notion that anxiety is the cause of their symptoms get MUCH better when they finally DO come to a place of acceptance and seek help for the anxiety. I would personally tell you that the decision to dismiss the notion of anxiety as an illness or condition will keep you frm getting better, sadly.
And I thoroughly agree that suggesting that panic attacks or anxiety COULD by themselves cause life threatening medical emergencies is just irresponsible and inaccurate, there's NO proof of that...actually the info out there indicates that indeed, without an underlying serious medical condition, panic attacks are harmless. Many of us have had panic disorder for decades, and are still here.
I don't suffer from any kind of "pain", btw either. While I'm sure the experts will continue to study and learn more about the brain, I don't believe it will ever be possible for them to understand every little thing about it. Mental illnesses have been a part of human existence since the beginning of time..and we've come a long way since the days of believing a mentally ill person was possessed, or a witch, or the like.
We have to be ULTRA careful of what we say and imply on an anxiety forum. There are SO many issues and problems I have with the "studies" cited above..but I'll just leave my comments where they are. PLEASE let's not feed into the anxiety of people coming here for reassurance. The responsible thing is always to go to the doctor to make sure one is healthy and not at risk in any way. Besides that, there is simply no evidence that chronic anxiety or panic is life threatening.
"And stop calling what you have anxiety or panic attacks. Because those words are really hurting our chances of finding a real solution to our problems."
Actually, many of us would see it differently. We would see your stance as an obstacle in treating your own anxiety. Ironically, the vast majority of people who fight the notion that anxiety is the cause of their symptoms get MUCH better when they finally DO come to a place of acceptance and seek help for the anxiety. I would personally tell you that the decision to dismiss the notion of anxiety as an illness or condition will keep you frm getting better, sadly.
In diagnosing anxiety, it's not merely a matter of excluding physical problems. Rather than being a "mindless description", a diagnosis of anxiety requires that very specific criteria that be met.
While there may be no "proof" that a serotonin deficiency is the culprit in mood disorders, neuroscience is well-acquainted with the structures of the limbic system and its functions (and dysfunctions), so it's not accurate to say that there is no underlying physical cause. Until all of the research is in (and that will be never), however, we do have ample research into the effectiveness of certain meds in controlling anxiety and panic.
The study you mentioned has a number of weaknesses admitted by its authors, which could have affected its conclusions (The risk factors appeared to only include smoking and blood pressure, for example, and smoking data is based on patient reports, which are notoriously unreliable. It does not mention adjustments for other lifestyle choices, such as sedentary lifestyle, poor diet, sleep habits, etc., and the researchers had to fudge its data on socioeconomic and genetic factors). This doesn't mean that the study was wrong, but it does bear further research and no clear conclusions (or undue worries) can be drawn from it.
It's not responsible to imply that anxiety and panic cause heart attacks and strokes as no causal relationship has been proved; statements like that are sure to increase everyone's anxiety. chevy man, I don't see you describing the "pain" that t0mr refers to, though I agree that any physical pain or symptoms should be investigated. It looks like you've done that in great detail. What did the doctors who performed the tests say about your worries?
Claire
While there may be no "proof" that a serotonin deficiency is the culprit in mood disorders, neuroscience is well-acquainted with the structures of the limbic system and its functions (and dysfunctions), so it's not accurate to say that there is no underlying physical cause. Until all of the research is in (and that will be never), however, we do have ample research into the effectiveness of certain meds in controlling anxiety and panic.
The study you mentioned has a number of weaknesses admitted by its authors, which could have affected its conclusions (The risk factors appeared to only include smoking and blood pressure, for example, and smoking data is based on patient reports, which are notoriously unreliable. It does not mention adjustments for other lifestyle choices, such as sedentary lifestyle, poor diet, sleep habits, etc., and the researchers had to fudge its data on socioeconomic and genetic factors). This doesn't mean that the study was wrong, but it does bear further research and no clear conclusions (or undue worries) can be drawn from it.
It's not responsible to imply that anxiety and panic cause heart attacks and strokes as no causal relationship has been proved; statements like that are sure to increase everyone's anxiety. chevy man, I don't see you describing the "pain" that t0mr refers to, though I agree that any physical pain or symptoms should be investigated. It looks like you've done that in great detail. What did the doctors who performed the tests say about your worries?
Claire
Sorry that first link was the wrong one here is the link that discredits the serotonin imbalance theory:
http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020392
http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020392
Yes, I do not think that anxiety or panic attack are real diseases. They are only symptoms of an underlying physical condition that is not a lack of chemicals in the brain. Anxiety and panic attacks are always accompanied by a lack of physical cause or diagnosis. So it is easy for a doctor to say "well I do not see anything wrong with you so it must be anxiety and/or panic attacks."
But this diagnosis that you have anxiety or panic is based on the assumption that every possible physical cause has been exhausted. The human body is by far the most complex machine we have encountered. There are armies of engineers who work to design and fix flaws in machines like a Boeing jet over years of time and the complexity of a jet pales in comparison to a human being. And yet a couple of doctors with no real knowledge of physics or engineering are to have made sure no possible physical cause exists for your pain. The fact is that if your underlying cause is not obvious like a tumor that shows clearly as a black object on an x-ray then you are in for a long road my friend.
Here are a couple sites. One is really good discrediting the use of antidepressants and the theory of serotonin deficiency. Especially the part where the author compares what we actually know about the brain to what drug companies are claiming is true:
"Modern neuroscience has instead shown that the brain is vastly complex and poorly understood [11]. While neuroscience is a rapidly advancing field, to propose that researchers can objectively identify a “chemical imbalance” at the molecular level is not compatible with the extant science. In fact, there is no scientifically established ideal “chemical balance” of serotonin, let alone an identifiable pathological imbalance. To equate the impressive recent achievements of neuroscience with support for the serotonin hypothesis is a mistake."
The site the quote comes from is:
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Anxiety/Can-Panic--Anixiety-be-dangerous/show/1948631#post_9123791
Another site I already mentioned really relates well to your original question whether people diagnosed with anxiety and depression are at greater risk for heart problems:
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2008/12December/Pages/Panicattacksheartrisk.aspx
As for the reason for your anxiety/panic attacks, my best guess from what i have experienced myself and read is that there is some kind of strain on the circulatory system. I have seen people who have eaten a meal, smoked a cigarette, slouched back in their chair and then had what they called a panic attack. I myself have had a panic attack from nicotine use on more than one occassion (I quit a long time ago now though.) This to me suggests that there is a strain or pressure on the circulatory system that is not being picked up by doctors. Because nicotine is a stimulant it forces blood pressure to increase and puts a strain on the circulatory system that if already has a strain on it is too much to bear and the body reacts. Also in the case where I or someone had just ate there was a decrease in the internal volume of the chest cavity due to gas and food matter that decrease in internal volume may in addition with other factors be causing panic attacks at times. Also posture could be altering the ability for the circulatory system to do its job freely. Try to have good posture.
Keep a look out for real physical reasons why the anxiety or panic attack occurs write what you did just before the panic attack happen down and keep records and review them. And stop calling what you have anxiety or panic attacks. Because those words are really hurting our chances of finding a real solution to our problems.
But this diagnosis that you have anxiety or panic is based on the assumption that every possible physical cause has been exhausted. The human body is by far the most complex machine we have encountered. There are armies of engineers who work to design and fix flaws in machines like a Boeing jet over years of time and the complexity of a jet pales in comparison to a human being. And yet a couple of doctors with no real knowledge of physics or engineering are to have made sure no possible physical cause exists for your pain. The fact is that if your underlying cause is not obvious like a tumor that shows clearly as a black object on an x-ray then you are in for a long road my friend.
Here are a couple sites. One is really good discrediting the use of antidepressants and the theory of serotonin deficiency. Especially the part where the author compares what we actually know about the brain to what drug companies are claiming is true:
"Modern neuroscience has instead shown that the brain is vastly complex and poorly understood [11]. While neuroscience is a rapidly advancing field, to propose that researchers can objectively identify a “chemical imbalance” at the molecular level is not compatible with the extant science. In fact, there is no scientifically established ideal “chemical balance” of serotonin, let alone an identifiable pathological imbalance. To equate the impressive recent achievements of neuroscience with support for the serotonin hypothesis is a mistake."
The site the quote comes from is:
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Anxiety/Can-Panic--Anixiety-be-dangerous/show/1948631#post_9123791
Another site I already mentioned really relates well to your original question whether people diagnosed with anxiety and depression are at greater risk for heart problems:
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2008/12December/Pages/Panicattacksheartrisk.aspx
As for the reason for your anxiety/panic attacks, my best guess from what i have experienced myself and read is that there is some kind of strain on the circulatory system. I have seen people who have eaten a meal, smoked a cigarette, slouched back in their chair and then had what they called a panic attack. I myself have had a panic attack from nicotine use on more than one occassion (I quit a long time ago now though.) This to me suggests that there is a strain or pressure on the circulatory system that is not being picked up by doctors. Because nicotine is a stimulant it forces blood pressure to increase and puts a strain on the circulatory system that if already has a strain on it is too much to bear and the body reacts. Also in the case where I or someone had just ate there was a decrease in the internal volume of the chest cavity due to gas and food matter that decrease in internal volume may in addition with other factors be causing panic attacks at times. Also posture could be altering the ability for the circulatory system to do its job freely. Try to have good posture.
Keep a look out for real physical reasons why the anxiety or panic attack occurs write what you did just before the panic attack happen down and keep records and review them. And stop calling what you have anxiety or panic attacks. Because those words are really hurting our chances of finding a real solution to our problems.
okay so are you sayin there is no such thing as Anxiety??
i'm lost because i read the stories and its unfortunate but i don't get what you are sayin
a lil background i have been checked out several times over the years chasing this i have had 2 angiograms stress tests you name it and this have been going on for years.
Now don't get me wrong i was and still a lil concerned that something maybe going on but i have been worked up by more than 1 dr.
i'm lost because i read the stories and its unfortunate but i don't get what you are sayin
a lil background i have been checked out several times over the years chasing this i have had 2 angiograms stress tests you name it and this have been going on for years.
Now don't get me wrong i was and still a lil concerned that something maybe going on but i have been worked up by more than 1 dr.
Panic Attacks are not dangerous because a panic attack is a mindless description of your pain. No one will ever die from a panic attack because by definition it is not possible to die from pain. When you die you die from heart failure and that is what will be written down on the certificate of death. Is there a correlation between what doctors call panic attack and heart failure. The answer is yes.
Do not listen to people who tell you to be calm and that everything is alright. Your body is giving you pain for a reason. And your body has no reason to lie to you. Which is what these doctors would have you believe. These doctors only know second hand about such pain and really do not have the incentive to invest lots of time and effort into understanding a complex problem that is not obvious when they can easily give you a pill.
Consider this: You are in the wild 10,000 years ago. There are no psychologists to talk to, and you are fighting for your survival. Now you also are having panic attacks for no physical reason. You cannot feed yourself or fight off predators because your body decides it is important it manifest your emotional distress as a blinding pain that makes it impossible for you to function. What can you do but starve and die? It makes no sense. Why would the body lie to you about something as serious as the condition of your heart unless there was some real physical reason. Wake up people! And think!
I guess in a way people do die from panic attacks. When you need real help and doctors make up a fake illness for you, that can kill you. Here are several sites that talk about heart disease being misdiagnosed as a panic attack.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-10-24-missed-heart-attacks_x.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-394584/Boy-5-dies-doctors-misdiagnose-tumour-panic-attacks.html
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2008/12December/Pages/Panicattacksheartrisk.aspx
http://healthybodydaily.com/panic-attacks-2/dr-oz-panic-attack-misdiagnosed/
Do not listen to people who tell you to be calm and that everything is alright. Your body is giving you pain for a reason. And your body has no reason to lie to you. Which is what these doctors would have you believe. These doctors only know second hand about such pain and really do not have the incentive to invest lots of time and effort into understanding a complex problem that is not obvious when they can easily give you a pill.
Consider this: You are in the wild 10,000 years ago. There are no psychologists to talk to, and you are fighting for your survival. Now you also are having panic attacks for no physical reason. You cannot feed yourself or fight off predators because your body decides it is important it manifest your emotional distress as a blinding pain that makes it impossible for you to function. What can you do but starve and die? It makes no sense. Why would the body lie to you about something as serious as the condition of your heart unless there was some real physical reason. Wake up people! And think!
I guess in a way people do die from panic attacks. When you need real help and doctors make up a fake illness for you, that can kill you. Here are several sites that talk about heart disease being misdiagnosed as a panic attack.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-10-24-missed-heart-attacks_x.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-394584/Boy-5-dies-doctors-misdiagnose-tumour-panic-attacks.html
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2008/12December/Pages/Panicattacksheartrisk.aspx
http://healthybodydaily.com/panic-attacks-2/dr-oz-panic-attack-misdiagnosed/
Blu is spot on, she has never heard of anyone dying from an anxiety or panic attack because nobody ever has. Just doesn't happen.
I've had panic attacks since I was 13 years old and that was nearly 50 years ago.........I'm still here.
If you are having a lot of attacks, it's long past time to see your doctor to rule out a physical cause for them. If, after all the tests come back negative and anxiety is the only card left on the table, then it's time to deal with that through therapy or medication or both.
It is very normal for our blood pressure to sky rocket during an attack, but if it returns to within your normal range soon after the attack stops, I wouldn't worry much. Your normal BP is excellent. Most people don't have the presence of mind to take their BP during an attack. Perhaps you should avoid it as it probably just feeds your anxiety.
I do strongly suggest a visit with your doctor. Why continue to suffer with these attacks when there is so much help out there?
I wish you the best
Peace
Greenlydia
I've had panic attacks since I was 13 years old and that was nearly 50 years ago.........I'm still here.
If you are having a lot of attacks, it's long past time to see your doctor to rule out a physical cause for them. If, after all the tests come back negative and anxiety is the only card left on the table, then it's time to deal with that through therapy or medication or both.
It is very normal for our blood pressure to sky rocket during an attack, but if it returns to within your normal range soon after the attack stops, I wouldn't worry much. Your normal BP is excellent. Most people don't have the presence of mind to take their BP during an attack. Perhaps you should avoid it as it probably just feeds your anxiety.
I do strongly suggest a visit with your doctor. Why continue to suffer with these attacks when there is so much help out there?
I wish you the best
Peace
Greenlydia
I have personally never heard of death due to anxiety/panic disorders (besides suicide, sadly) and I have had this for 20 years now. I think I have posted to you on this subject before. You worry WAY too much for happy living. Please see your doctor about this. In the meantime, if you concentrate on beathing slowly, deeply, and calmly for a few minutes, you will find that your heartbeat slows, and your breathing becomes normal. It works for me every time. Take your mind off it by staying busy. And let us know how you do! Blessings - Blu :-)
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Anxiety Community
Find out what can trigger a panic attack – and what to do if you have one.
A guide to 10 common phobias.
Take control of tension today.
These simple pick-me-ups squash stress.
Don’t let the winter chill send your smile into deep hibernation. Try these 10 mood-boosting tips to get your happy back
Want to wake up rested and refreshed?
