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HELP! WE are getting VERY WORRIED about our 6 year old's HITTING, SCREAMING, AWFUL TANTRUMS - *PLEASE HELP*
Hi,
Please be gentle with us!
First off let me say that our daughter has been diagnosed with ADHD/ODD - anxiety and a possible mood disorder. She is 6.
Neither her father or I have a mood disorder, bipolar, etc.... Her father does have ADHD and I do have anxiety-panic disorder. So the adhd and anxiety are definitely in the family.
She is medicated with tenex to help the raging adhd issues. Buspar for extreme anxiety. A low dose of abilify (2.5 mg) for the extreme rages.
I was scared to give her one med. Now, somehow we are on three. They do help though and we hope to get rid of the abilify and maybe the buspar at some point.
She still throws many tantrums a day usually.
She has been seeing a therapist for a year and a half. She has been to a developmental pediatrician who basically threw up her hands and sent us to a child psych who was hard to deal with because we could never get a hold of him so we moved to another dev ped who is a specialist in kids with issues. He does not seem to "get it" about how severe this is. She has had an EEG to see if it is some sort of seizure or something but nothing came up.
I want to video tape this but i am always so busy trying to protect myself and her from getting hurt while this is going on.
Tantrum is not really a good word to describe what happens. She is so out of control that she is beating the crap out of me and her father and flailing her arms and legs and we have to just try to protect ourselves. It is HORRIBLE> She does not seem to be able to listen or stop - like she is possessed. omg. It is horrible.
It is ironic. We are two peaceful people who NEVER spank, hit, etc....we are pretty mellow people and do not know where this anger comes from in this little girl.
So, we have just been thinking this is part of adhd. Well, someone asked if she does it at school or not. Well, not really. She is only there for 3 hours in the am and then the after school care is to be 3 hours too.. But no hitting anyone and no anger stuff for the most part at either until we arrive then she is REALLY MAD like she HELD IT ALL IN AND HAS TO GET RID OF IT. She was sent to the principles office for disobeying a teacher one time. Yes, she is just in K and already went to the principles office but it was for crying, not hitting. But, she saves the WORST for us.
She tells us that she has all of this anger and the only way to be rid of it out of her body is to hit and attack us!?!?!?!
She is also extremely intelligent, and VERY Creative and loves other kids. She is often charming even. She can be the funniest and sweetest girl...but the tantrums are unbelievable. She almost levitates she is hitting, screaming, jumping, and attacking so hard. We are SOOO GLAD she usually does not do it in front of other people and that she does not hit anyone but us. OMG, SOOO THANKFUL FOR THAT!!!
I am SOOO AFRAID someone is going to hear her AMAZINGLY LOUD screaming and call the police. It is like she is being murdered. Sometimes she does this in the middle of the night when she wakes up and will not go bavk to sleep. We finally got so fed up we told her that smoeone was going to misunderstand her screaming and beating us and call the police to investigate. She still does not stop. We take away toys, we try to do time outs but she is so big (4'1") and SOOO Strong that I can barely carry her to a time out. She hits, scratches and beats me all of the way to her room and follows me right out. I am afraid she is going to hurt herself and I am afraid to hold her in her room. I am very afraid of hurting her while trying to hold her because she flails so much.
WHAT CAN WE DO?
I think we have tried it all!? But maybe someone has some idea. We have tried 123 magic, the explosive child, etc etc... we tried time outs, toy removal, positive behavior charts, ignoring her, walking away and turning our back to her, being tough....etc... If anything ever works...it is ignoring her or toy removal but most of the time she is so out of control that she does not even hear the toy loss part or anything else.
People STARE.
She has one trick she pulls that specifically bothers us. When we pick her up from school she starts throwing a tantrum in the hallway out to the car....long long hallway. She sometimes HITS ME yelling that she wants a toy all of the way out the school halls...with other kids and parents watching. IT IS SOOO HUMILIATING. (she has never gotten a toy when she behaves like this, EVER) Then she will stand screaming holding me hostage in the parking lot and WILL NOT GET INTO THE CAR. IF i try to pick her up and put her in she starts hitting and screaming and yelling HELP. Ok, people around us look like they think I am abducting her and it is soo awful. Sometimes it takes 20-25 minutes to get her to the car and into it. People do not understand. It is soo horrible. I feell sooooooooo sick for hours afterwards. She does this to her dad too.
I personally have aged about 20 years in the past 6 years. I cannot take much more of this. Her father is getting REALLY DOWN and REALLY SCARED for her future. She used to only beat me since i was the one with her the most often, but now she beats him too and he lets it get to him and it breaks his heart.
We are desperate.
We are in Oregon....if anyone knows of any physician out here that can help us...please let us know.
When she is not raging, she is a great kid and would never hurt us if that makes any sense. She is loving with animals and with babies and can be trusted around them...just fyi.
Thanks for listening if you made it this far.
Please be gentle with us!
First off let me say that our daughter has been diagnosed with ADHD/ODD - anxiety and a possible mood disorder. She is 6.
Neither her father or I have a mood disorder, bipolar, etc.... Her father does have ADHD and I do have anxiety-panic disorder. So the adhd and anxiety are definitely in the family.
She is medicated with tenex to help the raging adhd issues. Buspar for extreme anxiety. A low dose of abilify (2.5 mg) for the extreme rages.
I was scared to give her one med. Now, somehow we are on three. They do help though and we hope to get rid of the abilify and maybe the buspar at some point.
She still throws many tantrums a day usually.
She has been seeing a therapist for a year and a half. She has been to a developmental pediatrician who basically threw up her hands and sent us to a child psych who was hard to deal with because we could never get a hold of him so we moved to another dev ped who is a specialist in kids with issues. He does not seem to "get it" about how severe this is. She has had an EEG to see if it is some sort of seizure or something but nothing came up.
I want to video tape this but i am always so busy trying to protect myself and her from getting hurt while this is going on.
Tantrum is not really a good word to describe what happens. She is so out of control that she is beating the crap out of me and her father and flailing her arms and legs and we have to just try to protect ourselves. It is HORRIBLE> She does not seem to be able to listen or stop - like she is possessed. omg. It is horrible.
It is ironic. We are two peaceful people who NEVER spank, hit, etc....we are pretty mellow people and do not know where this anger comes from in this little girl.
So, we have just been thinking this is part of adhd. Well, someone asked if she does it at school or not. Well, not really. She is only there for 3 hours in the am and then the after school care is to be 3 hours too.. But no hitting anyone and no anger stuff for the most part at either until we arrive then she is REALLY MAD like she HELD IT ALL IN AND HAS TO GET RID OF IT. She was sent to the principles office for disobeying a teacher one time. Yes, she is just in K and already went to the principles office but it was for crying, not hitting. But, she saves the WORST for us.
She tells us that she has all of this anger and the only way to be rid of it out of her body is to hit and attack us!?!?!?!
She is also extremely intelligent, and VERY Creative and loves other kids. She is often charming even. She can be the funniest and sweetest girl...but the tantrums are unbelievable. She almost levitates she is hitting, screaming, jumping, and attacking so hard. We are SOOO GLAD she usually does not do it in front of other people and that she does not hit anyone but us. OMG, SOOO THANKFUL FOR THAT!!!
I am SOOO AFRAID someone is going to hear her AMAZINGLY LOUD screaming and call the police. It is like she is being murdered. Sometimes she does this in the middle of the night when she wakes up and will not go bavk to sleep. We finally got so fed up we told her that smoeone was going to misunderstand her screaming and beating us and call the police to investigate. She still does not stop. We take away toys, we try to do time outs but she is so big (4'1") and SOOO Strong that I can barely carry her to a time out. She hits, scratches and beats me all of the way to her room and follows me right out. I am afraid she is going to hurt herself and I am afraid to hold her in her room. I am very afraid of hurting her while trying to hold her because she flails so much.
WHAT CAN WE DO?
I think we have tried it all!? But maybe someone has some idea. We have tried 123 magic, the explosive child, etc etc... we tried time outs, toy removal, positive behavior charts, ignoring her, walking away and turning our back to her, being tough....etc... If anything ever works...it is ignoring her or toy removal but most of the time she is so out of control that she does not even hear the toy loss part or anything else.
People STARE.
She has one trick she pulls that specifically bothers us. When we pick her up from school she starts throwing a tantrum in the hallway out to the car....long long hallway. She sometimes HITS ME yelling that she wants a toy all of the way out the school halls...with other kids and parents watching. IT IS SOOO HUMILIATING. (she has never gotten a toy when she behaves like this, EVER) Then she will stand screaming holding me hostage in the parking lot and WILL NOT GET INTO THE CAR. IF i try to pick her up and put her in she starts hitting and screaming and yelling HELP. Ok, people around us look like they think I am abducting her and it is soo awful. Sometimes it takes 20-25 minutes to get her to the car and into it. People do not understand. It is soo horrible. I feell sooooooooo sick for hours afterwards. She does this to her dad too.
I personally have aged about 20 years in the past 6 years. I cannot take much more of this. Her father is getting REALLY DOWN and REALLY SCARED for her future. She used to only beat me since i was the one with her the most often, but now she beats him too and he lets it get to him and it breaks his heart.
We are desperate.
We are in Oregon....if anyone knows of any physician out here that can help us...please let us know.
When she is not raging, she is a great kid and would never hurt us if that makes any sense. She is loving with animals and with babies and can be trusted around them...just fyi.
Thanks for listening if you made it this far.
Hi Maddy,
please email me if you want to. I would love to connect. It sounds like we have a lot in common.
And, to those who say our daughter is freaking out on us because we give her what she wants and they will not at school.....um NO. She never gets what she wants by acting out.
She is winding up tighter and tighter at school all day and is holding it in to not get in trouble....her sensory issues are building and building all day long with the noise, and her lack of eating her lunch...and by the time i pick her up she is a screaming, hitting mess...and DOES IT FROM THE SECOND SHE SEE;S ME or my husband ALL OF THE WAY THROUGH THE HALLS and for NO REASON that is obvious.
Thanks for the parenting class advice but unfortunately, this is the same offensive thing we get from parents of typical children who do not have a CLUE all of the time.
We are older parents...waited a long time for this baby...well educated...too many parenting books on the shelves...been advised for years by a therapist on child rearing...been advised by my parents who raised 4, and my sister who raised 3...but NONE were like our daughter and what works for typical kids DOES NOT WORK for ADHD/ODD Mood Disorder kids.... 85 of 100 kids will do what an adult tells them to do....my girl is one of the 15. with ODD..and she has been sent to the principal's office already 3 times in a few months IN KINDERGARTEN...so i guess she is not holding it together at school that well after all.. So what i am saying is that your "advice" for us taking parenting classes is just one more insensitive comment from someone who thinks they know it all and really they know nothing about the subject.
please email me if you want to. I would love to connect. It sounds like we have a lot in common.
And, to those who say our daughter is freaking out on us because we give her what she wants and they will not at school.....um NO. She never gets what she wants by acting out.
She is winding up tighter and tighter at school all day and is holding it in to not get in trouble....her sensory issues are building and building all day long with the noise, and her lack of eating her lunch...and by the time i pick her up she is a screaming, hitting mess...and DOES IT FROM THE SECOND SHE SEE;S ME or my husband ALL OF THE WAY THROUGH THE HALLS and for NO REASON that is obvious.
Thanks for the parenting class advice but unfortunately, this is the same offensive thing we get from parents of typical children who do not have a CLUE all of the time.
We are older parents...waited a long time for this baby...well educated...too many parenting books on the shelves...been advised for years by a therapist on child rearing...been advised by my parents who raised 4, and my sister who raised 3...but NONE were like our daughter and what works for typical kids DOES NOT WORK for ADHD/ODD Mood Disorder kids.... 85 of 100 kids will do what an adult tells them to do....my girl is one of the 15. with ODD..and she has been sent to the principal's office already 3 times in a few months IN KINDERGARTEN...so i guess she is not holding it together at school that well after all.. So what i am saying is that your "advice" for us taking parenting classes is just one more insensitive comment from someone who thinks they know it all and really they know nothing about the subject.
1 Comments
I had a child that would enter my home swearing, raging. I leave the child alone. I do not engage. We go about our business, like nothing is happening. It usually takes 10 - 15 min and child stops on it's own. This went on for months. Same pattern. Always debrief after child has calmed down. When a person is raging - they do not 'hear' you. The blood supply to the brain is not supplying enough oxygen because the body is tense. That is why most can not remember what they said afterwards. The child is in 'fight or flight mode.' When the child is calm, debrief. Use PRIDE - P for Identify Problem; R - for recognise your reaction; I - Identify your thoughts; D - for develop strategy to solve; E - is for evaluate 'how' you did.
This works with 5 yrs and up, if cognitively able to comprehend information.
Not being insensitive, I work with kids like yours every day 7 days a week.
WE are also responsible for the communicative intent. Communication is a 2 way street. We MUST also look at ourselves - our tone, our cadence, our language as contributing factors. We have to examine it ALL. That is the hard part - as adult parents we don't want to take any blame - we all have our egos. Humility is a difficult pill to swallow - been there, done that. And I am not blaming parents - but be aware of how you communicate.
When a child starts physically attaching me, I go outside for the sake of witnesses so neighbours do not think I am killing a child. It takes a long time for a reactive child to learn how to control their anxiety/anger/frustrations/learn the language to describe what is bothering them/if they have been abused in some way (not necessarily by family, but from outside home/school possibly??)
What I do is set up the home environment that fits the child's preferences, likes and dislikes are taken into consideration. Keep rules simple, basic and not too many expectations. Slowly increase expectations, if they go backwards, then start over.
It has been my experience that it can take up to one year of intense positive reinforcement strategies specifically designed for each child, or it can take 1.5 yrs to stabilise.
It is one of the hardest jobs you will ever encounter. And if the child is extremely smart/manipulative, etc. you have to always be one step ahead - I call it mental gymnastics!
Get some relief staff and go exhale. I wish you well............
This works with 5 yrs and up, if cognitively able to comprehend information.
Not being insensitive, I work with kids like yours every day 7 days a week.
WE are also responsible for the communicative intent. Communication is a 2 way street. We MUST also look at ourselves - our tone, our cadence, our language as contributing factors. We have to examine it ALL. That is the hard part - as adult parents we don't want to take any blame - we all have our egos. Humility is a difficult pill to swallow - been there, done that. And I am not blaming parents - but be aware of how you communicate.
When a child starts physically attaching me, I go outside for the sake of witnesses so neighbours do not think I am killing a child. It takes a long time for a reactive child to learn how to control their anxiety/anger/frustrations/learn the language to describe what is bothering them/if they have been abused in some way (not necessarily by family, but from outside home/school possibly??)
What I do is set up the home environment that fits the child's preferences, likes and dislikes are taken into consideration. Keep rules simple, basic and not too many expectations. Slowly increase expectations, if they go backwards, then start over.
It has been my experience that it can take up to one year of intense positive reinforcement strategies specifically designed for each child, or it can take 1.5 yrs to stabilise.
It is one of the hardest jobs you will ever encounter. And if the child is extremely smart/manipulative, etc. you have to always be one step ahead - I call it mental gymnastics!
Get some relief staff and go exhale. I wish you well............
OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel like Im reading about my son. Hes turning 8 in June and Hes been diagnosted with OCD, but theres a sensory issue there as well.
All the discriptions you made about her tantrums happening only at home and not in school is exactly what my son does to us.
The hitting is only done to us,
I have tried medications but unfortunatly they dont agree with him to well. It makes him more aggressive and angry, in addition, he gets massive nose bleeds.
We are at a loss right now too. Hes in phyciatry therapy now and i took him off all meds. Im looking into a holistic approach. I found a vitamin called Inositol. Its Vitamn B8. Check it out. Only problem is, they have no doses listed for children. Im going to ask the Dr. what she thinks. On the other hand, Im taking it for myself. I will be the guinnie pig. I am loosing my freekin mind. I cant stand when hes raging and theres nothing I can say or do to help him.
I feel like sometimes its behavioral and then his OCD kicks in.
He feels dirty after going Number 2 in the bathroom . He ripped his butt apart by wiping so much. Hes not comvinced its clean enough. So i have to put a ointment on to heal the burn and then hes freeking out because it feels wet.
Thats where the Sensory issues come in.
Its taking a tole on our marrage. we only have the one child but we cant open our windows on a beautiful day bcause we are affraid the neighbors will think what the hells goin on in that house.
He is always telling me he wants to hurt me and Kill me.
Me more than his dad.
Trust me, I feel your pain and know exactally what your going through.
If you find out anything, please let me know and I will do the same for you.
Maddy
All the discriptions you made about her tantrums happening only at home and not in school is exactly what my son does to us.
The hitting is only done to us,
I have tried medications but unfortunatly they dont agree with him to well. It makes him more aggressive and angry, in addition, he gets massive nose bleeds.
We are at a loss right now too. Hes in phyciatry therapy now and i took him off all meds. Im looking into a holistic approach. I found a vitamin called Inositol. Its Vitamn B8. Check it out. Only problem is, they have no doses listed for children. Im going to ask the Dr. what she thinks. On the other hand, Im taking it for myself. I will be the guinnie pig. I am loosing my freekin mind. I cant stand when hes raging and theres nothing I can say or do to help him.
I feel like sometimes its behavioral and then his OCD kicks in.
He feels dirty after going Number 2 in the bathroom . He ripped his butt apart by wiping so much. Hes not comvinced its clean enough. So i have to put a ointment on to heal the burn and then hes freeking out because it feels wet.
Thats where the Sensory issues come in.
Its taking a tole on our marrage. we only have the one child but we cant open our windows on a beautiful day bcause we are affraid the neighbors will think what the hells goin on in that house.
He is always telling me he wants to hurt me and Kill me.
Me more than his dad.
Trust me, I feel your pain and know exactally what your going through.
If you find out anything, please let me know and I will do the same for you.
Maddy
The only thing I would disagree with - behaving at school vs. home and that she gets away with things at home....not necessarily
For kids with ADHD/explosive temperament/chemical imbalances it is extremely hard to get through the school day, with all the stimulation....so once they get home they can "meltdown" in a big way, to let out all the frustration of the day
It is important for children to be comfortable with anger and be able to let it out in approprate manner....Unfortunately, in a western culture, anger is a "forbidden" thing, and focus is on "how not to get angry" instead on "how to experience it"....
Another thought - how about ...playing? When my son is irritable and angry after school for no apperent reason - we get out all the stuffed "friends" and play "school" - usually the issue surfaces thought the play
For kids with ADHD/explosive temperament/chemical imbalances it is extremely hard to get through the school day, with all the stimulation....so once they get home they can "meltdown" in a big way, to let out all the frustration of the day
It is important for children to be comfortable with anger and be able to let it out in approprate manner....Unfortunately, in a western culture, anger is a "forbidden" thing, and focus is on "how not to get angry" instead on "how to experience it"....
Another thought - how about ...playing? When my son is irritable and angry after school for no apperent reason - we get out all the stuffed "friends" and play "school" - usually the issue surfaces thought the play
1 Comments
What I did when my kid needed to expel frustration/anger - we would go for a drive down the freeway and we would all let it rip! Scream at the top of their lungs, laughing usually followed. It cleared the air..........take all that pent up energy and give them another healthier method of expelling......
also maybe have a blood test to check her thyroid gland and adrenal glands,plus a scan to look at her kidneys as the adrenal glands sit on top of the kidneys. It has been known for children to have small non-cancerous tumours on the adrenal glands which can cause adrenaline to serge into the bloodstream causing massive anxious, panicky, angry outbursts just like you describe. It may just be the reason as to why she can not control herself.
Some blood tests can come back within a 'normal' range due to this range being fairly broad so if the test does come back within 'normal' range i personally would demand a scan to have a good look at her kidneys. If there is a tumour normally a simple operation to remove it will make the world of difference.
I really do hope a soultion is found soon as it sounds like such a horrible situation to be in, she is lucky to have such dedicated parents who love her so much and are willing to do anything for her. God bless and let us know if anything is found.
Julie xxx
Some blood tests can come back within a 'normal' range due to this range being fairly broad so if the test does come back within 'normal' range i personally would demand a scan to have a good look at her kidneys. If there is a tumour normally a simple operation to remove it will make the world of difference.
I really do hope a soultion is found soon as it sounds like such a horrible situation to be in, she is lucky to have such dedicated parents who love her so much and are willing to do anything for her. God bless and let us know if anything is found.
Julie xxx
P.S. the diabetic testing is a great idea too. Make sure they do an a1c level along with the blood sugars. My husband was diagnosed with type 2 a little over a year ago with no symptoms at all. He is very healthy and not overweight.
I actually found this by accident...I completely understand what you are going through. I have a 7 year old son who has that type of tantrum...it was worse when he was around the ages of 5-6 and has considerably calmed down over the last year. It is extremely embarassing when the cops show up at your door because of nosy neighbors, but I also understand where they are coming from. Screams so loud that they about break your ear drums, hitting and kicking. My son is also extremely intelligent (early reading, and math skills). We have wanted to take him to a child developement clinic because of these issues. My husband has ADHD and I have anxiety issues. We have noticed multiple symptoms relating to different things, anything between ADHD and Asberger's. When you say your daughter is smart, what type of smart? Reading? Math? I also noticed my son has a HUGE and over active imagination along with a photographic memory. His comprehension is amazing and has now tested to be above 3rd grade reading level and reads 120+ words per minute. It seems especially at night that his poor little brain won't shut off and these tantrums just seem to be the outlet. I have found that during these tantrums you have to remain extremely calm and talk them down. Make her face you and focus on you. Talk softly and slowly. Ask her what the problem is and explain it to you. I know most people won't like this answer, but try to hold back on the punishing. I know I wouldn't like this answer either, but this has truly helped with the tantrums. I hope this helps at all. Let me know if it does. Remember each child is different and what works for some may not work for others. I came upon this by accident. I also have a 4 1/2 yr old daughter who won't go pee consistently on the toilet. :)
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