Where is the line drawn for kicking a child out of daycare?

[Mandee775]

I am a daycare/preschool teacher. I teach 3 and 4 year olds. I have one child in my class who does pretty good during the day but when she acts out (won't follow instructions, repeatedly does the same thing over and over, won't stay quiet at nap time) and is told to stop or is sat in time out is just completely defiant. She tells me "NO!" and kicks and screams. If she is told to be quiet (especially at nap time) she will just look at me and keep saying words (random words) loudly. If she is told to lay down on her mat she will keep getting up and readjusting her blanket and pillow. She refuses to take a nap. She says "I can't close my eyes" or "I don't know how to take a nap."

Her mother doesn't seem to care a terrible amount. When the director talked to her about it, she basically said "Well she is only three years old." She brought in a bigger blanket and a pillow and a bear for her to lay down with, but it doesn't help her lay still or stay quiet. She fights sleep like nothing I have ever seen before. And has woken my other kids up multiple times, and i can't them to go back to sleep because she doesn't stop being loud.

For getting her to go to sleep i have tried white noise for music, I've tried patting her back, rubbing her back, holding her hand, laying next to her, I've tried letting her watch baby videos from my phone that are supposed to put children to sleep and make them sleepy. I've tried positive reinforcements such as offering a prize if she took a nap. I've tried everything i can think of, she does not seem to care. After that i tried just giving her a quiet activity like reading a book or matching games. But she talks to herself the whole time she does it (and she doesn't talk quietly). When i ask her to keep her voice down or zip her lips, she does it for about a maximum of two minutes.

She just started last week at our daycare. I don't want her mother to be upset when she comes in to pick her up and her note that goes home says she is misbehaving everyday during nap. But its becoming unmanageable. I plan activites/games/lessons during nap time and i can get anything done when i'm constantly reminding her to be still or lay quiet or not to talk.

If you're a parent of a child, whats the best way for you to communicate with your childs teacher? If you're a daycare provider, what would you suggest?

Is any of this means for asking a child to leave the daycare?


This discussion is related to Behavior Problems - Daycare.

[Mandee775]

Thank you very much for your response, yours has definitely been the most helpful.

[tiredbuthappy]

I agree that she has only been there a week and it is too soon to consider this to be a problem.
I have the perspective of both a parent and a preschool teacher.

At my old job, rest time was scheduled for 2 hours. This was absolutely necessary because there were 2 full time staff members, and each needed a lunch. In order for each to get their lunch and to maintain state ratios, the children needed be asleep or on their cots during the time that there was only 1 teacher in the room.

I currently work for a public preschool that very strictly follows state regulations. We have ALL the children at least rest for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes, we are supposed to give the children who are awake quiet activities to do on their mats or at a table. Lights stay off for an hour.

To the original poster- it sounds like you have tried many different approaches, and I give you credit for that. My only concern is that you have tried that many approaches in only a week. That is not sending the child a consistent message at all, and it is not giving any of the approaches a chance to work. First, I would inquire about the child's sleep habits at home. Does she nap at home? When does she go to bed? When does she wake up? Most parents report their children do not nap at home, while they certainly do at school. School is much more stimulating and tiring than a home environment. When I worked with 3 year olds, I'd say that at least 90% still napped regularly at school. At least 1/2 of my 4 and 5 year old students nap too. Often, children who do not have regular bedtimes or routines at home have difficulty napping at school even if they need it. This can be because they are overtired, or because they never developed self-soothing techniques. Some of these kids often have their mommas still crawl in to bed with them to get them to sleep at night. Of course they can't fall asleep at school. If you have an understanding of what she is used to and what happens at home, you may be able to help her adjust better.

So, I used to be the teacher who expected children to be quiet for 2 hours. It was a health and safety issue. You can't supervise that many awake kids, and most of them do need the sleep. To help them sleep, I rubbed backs and played soft music. For those few children who truly didn't need the nap, I did give them books, coloring, puzzles, etc. I even allowed one to bring an mp3 player from home. (By the way- before I forget, stories on CD instead of lullabies can be a nice compromise- it helps entertain, and you can even allow the awake child to have the book that goes with it. You local library probably has many if you don't). It definitely interfered with my planning time, but fighting them would only disturb more kids. BUT, now I am also a mother to a preschooler. And I know that I would be furious if anyone expected my child to be quiet for 2 hours. 20 to 30 minutes is reasonable. My kids fall asleep on their own, but they talk and sing themselves to sleep. So, this has changed my perspective a lot. I let kids quietly talk to themselves. They can bring a special cuddle toy from home. I put those kids in a more isolated area of the room. I give them notebooks, coloring books, or journals if they can't fall asleep after 30 minutes. If you are worried about the other kids seeing what they are doing, you can construct walls by cutting open large cardboard boxes.

I would open a dialog with mom, but also understand you need to give it time. Your plan should be based on what you discuss with mom and what you both determine her needs to be. Pick one approach and try it for a bit longer. Also remember that nap time can be very overwhelming and scary to a kid who is new to daycare. During the busy times, it's easy to be distracted from the fact that you miss mom, but when it's quiet it's much harder.

[Heatherm4]

I worked at a daycare and we never called it nap time. It was quiet time. Each child had a cot that were their own with a blanket. The time slot was 2 hours and most of the older children would not sleep. Some would and it was fine but a lot of them knew how to keep quiet. There were some defiant ones that wouldn't be quiet enough for the sleeping children to rest. So they were removed and sent to another room. Sometimes we would turn on a movie and leave it on low so they could watch that. Or they could colour or look at books. It all depended on how many children stayed up and how much longer was left of quiet time.
To me it sounds like she is not aware of the new rules of the room. She is new so it does take time to transition. Especially if she has never been to daycare before. Also, she knows it bugs you! LOL so she's going to keep doing it. They are sneaky that way. Try to ignore it as much as you can, if she's chatting away loudly....remind her that it's quiet time and she needs to stay quiet but not too much. It'll just go in one ear and out the other. I don't think prizes are a good idea. That's not fair to the others who are doing perfectly well, right?

[allmymarbles]

I can see where daycare might be a good situation for an only child - depending on the temperament of that child. I had my first two a little over a year apart, so there never was an only child in a sense. I also was a working mother and found that bringing someone into the home to take care of the two was better than sending them someplace I could not control. Also they had each other to play with. Obviously my situation was different from yours and, as your choice suited you, mine suited me.

[adgal]

Actually, I have to disagree that being away from home for the day is a bad idea.  My son attends daycare 3 days a week.  He is there from 8 until about 4:15.  He absolutely loves it.  He is an only child, and thrives in the social environment.  He also benefits from the fact that I have an income...darn having to buy food and help keep a roof over our heads anyway.

It is not necessarily true that daycare is not a good situation for kids.  Like anything there are pro's and cons, and familes must choose what is best for them.  I don't feel one bit guilty about my son attending daycare.  He is happy there, and happy the day's he is home with me.  It's a good situation.  Much depends on the daycare, and it's important to find one that is a good fit for the child and their specific needs.

As for keeping a small child quiet while others are sleeping?  I agree, not possible.  Not mine anyway.  He, like many other children his age would never just sit quietly no matter what was tried.  And some days' he needs/wants the nap, other days he does not.  I like that my daycare lets him take the lead and does not ever force the issue.  

[allmymarbles]

My children went to nursery and pre-kindergarten for only half a day. Two took naps at home from two to four PM and two did not.

The problem may lie with the daycare system which institutes inflexible practices that are not suitable for some children. In any case, being away from home for so many hours, at such a young age, is not a great idea.