Raw Bones

[JanetRou]

My 10 year old dalmation has just been diagnosed with chronic renal failure. she is doing very well on renal diet with good appetite and generally looking good at the moment. She is used to a daily raw bone as part of her morning routine, is this still ok for her to have.

[tonyb286]

Hi. Yes, it's actually quite hard finding what's in a marrow bone. However, I do know that about 85% of all the phosphorus in the canine body (and human body too) is contained within the bone structure, so it makes sense to recognise that bones are high in this element. Of course, they are also high in calcium (depending on how much of the hard parts of a bone a dog actually consumes. Given these facts, it is probably wise to severely limit the amount of raw bones kd dogs have access to.

Tony

[tonyb286]

Wise words there which I agree with. I think you're right, raw bones can be okay depending on the size-appropriate-to-dog and supervision rule. And yes, weight bearing bones are hazardous to teeth. I also agree with your questions about the two dogs in the article, although it is a useful warning to owners about the potential problems that can occur.

My guess is, the big problem many of us have, we tend to go ahead and feed bones without truly assessing the risk, taking the time to supervise properly or truly understand the issues (via researching the subject properly). Another major headache is that we all have a tendency to trust our pet suppliers and the manufacturers who say a cooked bone is a safe and healthy treat ... when clearly, it is not.

Tony

[GreyGret15]

I completely agree with all things you are saying Tony. The bones raw feeding is talking about are always meaty bones. Bones with meat around. That's important.
And the sadest thing is that pet suppliers and manufacturers are selling cooked and dried bones as safe to feed. That is realy sad. :-(

[GreyGret15]

Cooked bones are lethal.
Raw bones are safe to feed:
- IN SMALL QUANTITY. Raw feeding is 80% muscle, only 10% bones, 10% organs.
- IF you don't feed weight bearing bones (broken teeth).
- IF feed under supervision.

Raw bones can be lethal if not following "the rules".

I've read the article and it says:
"Both of these dogs required four days in the hospital, anesthesia and sedation, repeated enemas, i.v. fluid, therapy, antibiotics, and additional X-rays. If this treatment approach wasn't successful, major surgery would have been necessary to save the dogs from an agonizing death."
I think that the only thing that was wrong with the first dogs, was that he has eaten to much bones at once. That's all.
The article says: This hound of about 75 pounds was found by his owner feeding on a dead deer carcass.
That means that the dog was not under control of his owner. And seems that he was eating the carcass for a while. So he ate to much bone at once. That's why the blockage.
And the other dog? "The dog, Dr. Goodroad would learn, had a history of raiding the neighbor's garbage cans."
Well what did he eat that caused problems. Probably cooked bones. Same other garbage? And this was the problem.

[tonyb286]

Hi. We may have to agree to disagree about bones. It's taken many years for vets and canine nutritionists to agree that most bones are bad for dogs. If you have ever seen a dog suffering from splinters trapped in throats or cutting through a stomach lining, you might change your mind. It's not a risk worth taking, believe me.

Tony

[tonyb286]

Check this out from Petmd: http://www.petmd.com/dog/nutrition/evr_dg_raw_bones_or_cooked_bones

[JanetRou]

Thank you for your information Tony I appreciate your time. I am still learning about phosphorus levels so was unaware of this. I must say, however, that I strongly disagree with you about raw bones being bad for all dogs. They provide wonderful stimulation, dental care and general well being. There is no reason why with care and supervision they would introduce bacteria any more than any other form of raw meat and appropriate bone selection takes away the risk of splintering.
Once again I thank you for your time and information about phosphorous levels.

[DebnMol]

I am glad to see the question of bones for dogs with Chronic Kidney disease, I have a 2 yr old Golden Retriever recently diagnosed and she just loves bones!! Since having her as a pup, I read everything about wether to feed your dog bones or not....through the good and the bad, the conclusion was, she finds old mouldy ones in the bushes all the time and scoffs them down before I can stop her, I figure its better to giver her clean  bones that I know about. With her new diagnosis, I have been searching for information on the subject. I am very nervous about the bones impact on the calcium/phosphorus numbers so have issued her with a raw marrow bone once a week, she licks out the contents in an hour then chews on the bone (for entertainment) for the rest of the week...... I cant find enough nutritional information on the contents of bone marrow, Is is recommended?

[tonyb286]

Hi. Raw bones can be a major problem for all dogs, as they can cause blockages, splinter the gastric tract, etc., and by the time you know something bad has happened, your dog will be dead. So, do you still want to take the risk ... ???

The other problem with raw bones is they can introduce bacteria and infection - and this is definitely something you want to avoid with a renal failure dog. While infections can be treated, the very treatment that is needed (antibiotics) will add huge amounts of stress to the kidneys and increase the amount of toxins in the bloodstream.

Finally, raw bones contain high levels of phosphorus. This is an important mineral that dogs get from food intake. Unfortunately, the kidneys are involved in removing excessive amounts of phosphorus when the mineral builds up too high in the canine body. Damaged kidneys cannot remove the mineral as fast as it's being taken in, and phosphorus levels increase beyond normal, causing a deterioration of various organs and systems. Restricting phosphorus intake is a primary objective in kidney failure.

Hope this all helps

Tony