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Obama unveils sweeping plan to battle gun violence
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-unveils-sweeping-plan-battle-gun-violence-165956859--politics.html
President Barack Obama on Wednesday called for measures including background checks for every gun buyer in America, a ban on assault weapons and ammunition clips that hold more than 10 bullets and a federal firearm trafficking law as part of a the most sweeping effort to curb deadly gun violence in at least a generation.
"While reducing gun violence is a complicated challenge, protecting our children from harm shouldn’t be a divisive one," Obama said. The President was joined by Vice President Joe Biden and some of the children who wrote to Obama in the aftermath of mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School last month that left 26 people dead, including 20 first graders.
The total cost of the president's proposals is estimated at $500 million.
At the bottom of this post is a fact-sheet, provided by the White House, detailing Obama’s proposals. But administration officials on a conference call previewing the announcement fleshed out some important details (on condition that they not be named) and left some important questions unanswered:
- They wouldn’t say whether any of the steps the president is recommending would have prevented the massacre at Sandy Hook and other recent mass shootings. "There’s no question that both the actions that he’s taking and the legislation that he’s proposing will save lives,” one senior official said on the call.
- They did not provide an estimate of how many lives would be saved annually if the president got everything he wanted, saying the social science on gun deaths is not precise enough to do so.
- Obama isn’t sending “specific legislative language” to Congress, the officials said, instead following his usual blueprint of laying out principles and then letting lawmakers craft a bill.
- In keeping with the president’s promises, his proposals would limit the manufacture of new assault weapons and ammunition clips with more than 10 bullets – but would not affect those already on the market.
- How did they settle on 10 bullets (and not seven, or 15)? One official said that number was taken from the 1994 assault weapons ban that Obama hopes to renew and strengthen.
- Was the so-called "Fast and Furious" gun trafficking scandal a factor in shaping the president's proposals? "It was not," said one official.
Bowing to political reality, Obama’s proposals included a wave of executive actions that circumvent Congress, where most Republicans and a few Democrats have balked at sweeping new restrictions they say could trample constitutional gun rights. The potent National Rifle Association lobby has also pledged to defeat new gun control measures. On the other side, retired congresswoman and mass shooting survivor Gabby Giffords plans to lobby her former colleagues, and national public opinion polls have shown a surge in popular support for new gun laws.
The president has long said he seeks a comprehensive strategy for preventing future mass shootings while diminishing the death toll from smaller-scale daily killings, officials said. Some of what he unveiled would require congressional action, like the assault weapons ban. Some could be achieved with merely a presidential signature – a step that could, in some cases, inflame opposition in Congress, notably among House Republicans. (Though some of those are decidedly small-scale: One of the 23 "executive actions" trumpeted by the White House was that Obama will "clarify" that Obamacare "does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes").
The proposals were the fruit of extensive discussions, led by Biden, with victims' groups, organizations that represent gun owners, elected officials, and law-enforcement leaders.
Obama wants to boost anti-bullying campaigns in schools, and training for educators. He also wants to give schools the ability to use some federal funds to improve safety – but did not explicitly echo the NRA’s demand for armed guards in schools.
Key steps also included imposing background checks on all gun purchases. Right now, an estimated 40 percent fall outside existing law, including those at gun shows and other 'private' sales, according to gun-control advocates. The existing system has stopped an estimated 1.5 million improper gun sales, according to an Obama aide, but "there's still too many loopholes." The president directed Attorney General Eric Holder to take a "fresh look" into whether the categories of people prohibited from buying firearms needs to be expanded or updated.
Obama also aimed to thaw what the White House called a "freeze" in scientific research by the Centers for Disease Control into gun violence. And he urged Congress to bankroll the CDC to do research into possible linkages between violent video games and other media images and real-life violence, to the tune of $10 million.
Here is a White House-provided fact sheet listing his "executive actions."
Gun Violence Reduction Executive Actions
Today, the President is announcing that he and the Administration will:
Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.
Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.
Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).
Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.
Nominate an ATF director.
Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.
Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.
Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.
Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.
President Barack Obama on Wednesday called for measures including background checks for every gun buyer in America, a ban on assault weapons and ammunition clips that hold more than 10 bullets and a federal firearm trafficking law as part of a the most sweeping effort to curb deadly gun violence in at least a generation.
"While reducing gun violence is a complicated challenge, protecting our children from harm shouldn’t be a divisive one," Obama said. The President was joined by Vice President Joe Biden and some of the children who wrote to Obama in the aftermath of mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School last month that left 26 people dead, including 20 first graders.
The total cost of the president's proposals is estimated at $500 million.
At the bottom of this post is a fact-sheet, provided by the White House, detailing Obama’s proposals. But administration officials on a conference call previewing the announcement fleshed out some important details (on condition that they not be named) and left some important questions unanswered:
- They wouldn’t say whether any of the steps the president is recommending would have prevented the massacre at Sandy Hook and other recent mass shootings. "There’s no question that both the actions that he’s taking and the legislation that he’s proposing will save lives,” one senior official said on the call.
- They did not provide an estimate of how many lives would be saved annually if the president got everything he wanted, saying the social science on gun deaths is not precise enough to do so.
- Obama isn’t sending “specific legislative language” to Congress, the officials said, instead following his usual blueprint of laying out principles and then letting lawmakers craft a bill.
- In keeping with the president’s promises, his proposals would limit the manufacture of new assault weapons and ammunition clips with more than 10 bullets – but would not affect those already on the market.
- How did they settle on 10 bullets (and not seven, or 15)? One official said that number was taken from the 1994 assault weapons ban that Obama hopes to renew and strengthen.
- Was the so-called "Fast and Furious" gun trafficking scandal a factor in shaping the president's proposals? "It was not," said one official.
Bowing to political reality, Obama’s proposals included a wave of executive actions that circumvent Congress, where most Republicans and a few Democrats have balked at sweeping new restrictions they say could trample constitutional gun rights. The potent National Rifle Association lobby has also pledged to defeat new gun control measures. On the other side, retired congresswoman and mass shooting survivor Gabby Giffords plans to lobby her former colleagues, and national public opinion polls have shown a surge in popular support for new gun laws.
The president has long said he seeks a comprehensive strategy for preventing future mass shootings while diminishing the death toll from smaller-scale daily killings, officials said. Some of what he unveiled would require congressional action, like the assault weapons ban. Some could be achieved with merely a presidential signature – a step that could, in some cases, inflame opposition in Congress, notably among House Republicans. (Though some of those are decidedly small-scale: One of the 23 "executive actions" trumpeted by the White House was that Obama will "clarify" that Obamacare "does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes").
The proposals were the fruit of extensive discussions, led by Biden, with victims' groups, organizations that represent gun owners, elected officials, and law-enforcement leaders.
Obama wants to boost anti-bullying campaigns in schools, and training for educators. He also wants to give schools the ability to use some federal funds to improve safety – but did not explicitly echo the NRA’s demand for armed guards in schools.
Key steps also included imposing background checks on all gun purchases. Right now, an estimated 40 percent fall outside existing law, including those at gun shows and other 'private' sales, according to gun-control advocates. The existing system has stopped an estimated 1.5 million improper gun sales, according to an Obama aide, but "there's still too many loopholes." The president directed Attorney General Eric Holder to take a "fresh look" into whether the categories of people prohibited from buying firearms needs to be expanded or updated.
Obama also aimed to thaw what the White House called a "freeze" in scientific research by the Centers for Disease Control into gun violence. And he urged Congress to bankroll the CDC to do research into possible linkages between violent video games and other media images and real-life violence, to the tune of $10 million.
Here is a White House-provided fact sheet listing his "executive actions."
Gun Violence Reduction Executive Actions
Today, the President is announcing that he and the Administration will:
Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.
Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.
Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).
Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.
Nominate an ATF director.
Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.
Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.
Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.
Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.
Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.
"if the country could jump on welfare reform, immigration reform, and the likes as quick as they are jumping on this, we might get something accomplished. They aren't and this issue is probably a refreshing break form all of the nothing that is getting resolved in DC."
We can only hope so...
We can only hope so...
I completely understand the need to do something. I am not against doing something. These people (politicians) have proven though the last 20 years or so that nothing is easy in DC. Something like this happens and they jump on the first thing. Everything else takes months and months of discussion... things like health care, equal rights... things far more likely to affect more of us as a group directly than a shooting might. (Not being insensitive about shootings)
if the country could jump on welfare reform, immigration reform, and the likes as quick as they are jumping on this, we might get something accomplished. They aren't and this issue is probably a refreshing break form all of the nothing that is getting resolved in DC.
I would like to see the reasoning or facts or even presumptions on how this will minimize deaths. This part of the world was relatively quiet until McVeigh showed up and killed more people in one second than all of the mass shooting massacres but together x 50.
if the country could jump on welfare reform, immigration reform, and the likes as quick as they are jumping on this, we might get something accomplished. They aren't and this issue is probably a refreshing break form all of the nothing that is getting resolved in DC.
I would like to see the reasoning or facts or even presumptions on how this will minimize deaths. This part of the world was relatively quiet until McVeigh showed up and killed more people in one second than all of the mass shooting massacres but together x 50.
I hear ya..But we gotta start somewhere...We can't just not do anything...Criminals will always be out there but if we can minimize deaths, I'm all for it...I guess its a good thing that the amount of ammo is not a part of the discussion so no one has to worry about it...
Criminals, by and large, recycle guns. They aren't "buying" them. I know what youre saying, but it is a pipe dream. AS I said, I am legit and have nothing to hide. Criminals do and they wont be buying guns at gun shops where the regulations will be intact.
Doubtful this really ads to the conversation but it fits it. My dad MAKES guns. He makes all sorts of guns from shot guns to old time muskets. It's his hobby and he has a lot of guns. He certainly doesn't need them all or use them all but they are a little like his 'babies'.
Anyhoo . . . I doubt he has paperwork on them. Doubt anyone knows he has them.
But I still think that measures that help us cut down on guns in circulation and to have things in place to keep tabs on them as best we can is a good idea.
Anyhoo . . . I doubt he has paperwork on them. Doubt anyone knows he has them.
But I still think that measures that help us cut down on guns in circulation and to have things in place to keep tabs on them as best we can is a good idea.
I completely understand your point on "nobody needs an arsenal". For that matter, we don't need a lot of things. My"arsenal" is for me and my family to enjoy and use properly. Some guns I have are "shooters" and some are "wall hangers". If the government must know what guns I have, they can refer to all of the paperwork I've filled out throughout the years. For the 4 guns I have that were gifts, I'd be glad to let the government have a look at the serial numbers and log what information they feel is necessary. I'd venture to say that the majority of law abiding citizens would do such a thing.
That again leads me to the point that criminals, as el said above, are far less likely to follow legal channels to obtain guns. Something else that came to mind from a discussion you and I were having yesterday is about ammunition. We agreed that a certain amount (500 rds. per purchase) was probably a good ball park figure to start with. After thinking about that, I questioned the logic on that and here is where people like me would be affected. The kid in Connecticut, the movie house shooter.... combined they didn't squeeze off 100 rounds. That is 20% of what we agreed upon as a fair purchase amount.
The rifle I hunt with, every season I do hunt, I normally buy 2 boxes of ammunition. (40 rds.) With the first box, I go to the range and "sight in" from the bench and various other potential situations I would run into in the field. That leaves me 20 rounds for the season. (Antelope hunting is a b****) A hunter, even an avid hunter can blow through a half of a box easily. You're often required to shoot far longer distances, the wind around here varies about every 100 yards and there are environmental situations that make "missing" a reality. (Terrain is what I am speaking of.)
Deer and elk hunting are different and quite often I am shooting within 200 yds. I'm not braggin, but I normally don't miss a shot at 200 yds. I wait for a "good shot" whereas with antelope, you often dont get to wait and in one second and antelope can be up to 60 mph and in another county by the time you blink. (Bird hunting with shotguns is situational in regards to you might carry a couple of boxes of rounds.)
Aside from that, I have my recreational "plinkers" and my carry gun. I really need to cycle more rounds through the carry gun. Everyone in this house has a .22. We've never really gone plinking as a family, but I myself have gone through 500-600 rounds a day.
Criminals, like your average crack head and the likes probably doesn't ever have more than a loaded magazine or maybe even a box of ammunition laying around, where as your recreation shooters and hunters are far more liable to have hundreds of rounds.
I don't think we can punish those folks. Background check data bases locally, might be a good idea and perhaps signing out (real accountability) for ammo purchases is a great idea.... but a criminal will be able to get around that. It wouldn't matter to me because I am on the up and up. I don't care who knows that I have 200 rds of 9mm...
I don't know....
That again leads me to the point that criminals, as el said above, are far less likely to follow legal channels to obtain guns. Something else that came to mind from a discussion you and I were having yesterday is about ammunition. We agreed that a certain amount (500 rds. per purchase) was probably a good ball park figure to start with. After thinking about that, I questioned the logic on that and here is where people like me would be affected. The kid in Connecticut, the movie house shooter.... combined they didn't squeeze off 100 rounds. That is 20% of what we agreed upon as a fair purchase amount.
The rifle I hunt with, every season I do hunt, I normally buy 2 boxes of ammunition. (40 rds.) With the first box, I go to the range and "sight in" from the bench and various other potential situations I would run into in the field. That leaves me 20 rounds for the season. (Antelope hunting is a b****) A hunter, even an avid hunter can blow through a half of a box easily. You're often required to shoot far longer distances, the wind around here varies about every 100 yards and there are environmental situations that make "missing" a reality. (Terrain is what I am speaking of.)
Deer and elk hunting are different and quite often I am shooting within 200 yds. I'm not braggin, but I normally don't miss a shot at 200 yds. I wait for a "good shot" whereas with antelope, you often dont get to wait and in one second and antelope can be up to 60 mph and in another county by the time you blink. (Bird hunting with shotguns is situational in regards to you might carry a couple of boxes of rounds.)
Aside from that, I have my recreational "plinkers" and my carry gun. I really need to cycle more rounds through the carry gun. Everyone in this house has a .22. We've never really gone plinking as a family, but I myself have gone through 500-600 rounds a day.
Criminals, like your average crack head and the likes probably doesn't ever have more than a loaded magazine or maybe even a box of ammunition laying around, where as your recreation shooters and hunters are far more liable to have hundreds of rounds.
I don't think we can punish those folks. Background check data bases locally, might be a good idea and perhaps signing out (real accountability) for ammo purchases is a great idea.... but a criminal will be able to get around that. It wouldn't matter to me because I am on the up and up. I don't care who knows that I have 200 rds of 9mm...
I don't know....
"Good topic/discussion, btw, MrsP.
Thank you..
Seriously, besides a couple of posts in the thread, everyone has stayed on topic and respectful.
Let's just keep t his momentum going..We are all on CE and obviously we all like the dysfunction, that's why we keep coming back..lol..there's no reason why we shouldn't be civil and discuss topics responsibly...
Good job folks;-) "
YES..I agree!!
Thank you..
Seriously, besides a couple of posts in the thread, everyone has stayed on topic and respectful.
Let's just keep t his momentum going..We are all on CE and obviously we all like the dysfunction, that's why we keep coming back..lol..there's no reason why we shouldn't be civil and discuss topics responsibly...
Good job folks;-) "
YES..I agree!!
".but then again how many guns does one need?..." because that's an INDIVIDUALS business, not mine or yours. Some people collect matches, some collet stamps, some collect glasswear, some collect knives, some collect plans & tanks, and some collect guns. If I want to have 27 old circa-WW2 tanks in my collection, who are you tell me I can't? If I want to have 1,253 guns of various types and calibers and shapes and sizes, that's MY business (limit the bullets perhaps? I don't know...) "
I completely get where you're coming from....I was just saying there's really no NEED for an arsenal of guns..Yes people like to collect guns (my husband and myself included) and all that but what happens when that persons family get a hold of those? I know for us Jason has trigger locks on all of his guns (mine too), on top of having a gun safe, we do NOT leave them accessible..There are plenty of responsible gun owners like some of us here that do own guns but there are plenty more irresponsible gun owners out there....I'm just saying....But I DO get what you're saying and you are right....
"what Obama did does not address the issue of making gun-free-zones safer (yes, it's going to make a tiny bit harder to obtain a gun through LEGAL channels, but criminals don't usually follow the law!). "
I completely agree...He has a fight on his hands with these gun safety measures..I do sincerely hope they address this as well..This is going to be a brutal fight and we'll see what happens...I do know he's taking it to the people. I know he's going to go out to those southern (RED) gun states to pitch this..Let's hope they keep an open mind because at the end of the day, the President is NOT infringing on anyone's 2nd amendment right, and he's NOT taking anyone's guns away. He's just trying to do what is morally right for our country..Too many of our fellow citizens die unnecessarily by gun fire....
I completely get where you're coming from....I was just saying there's really no NEED for an arsenal of guns..Yes people like to collect guns (my husband and myself included) and all that but what happens when that persons family get a hold of those? I know for us Jason has trigger locks on all of his guns (mine too), on top of having a gun safe, we do NOT leave them accessible..There are plenty of responsible gun owners like some of us here that do own guns but there are plenty more irresponsible gun owners out there....I'm just saying....But I DO get what you're saying and you are right....
"what Obama did does not address the issue of making gun-free-zones safer (yes, it's going to make a tiny bit harder to obtain a gun through LEGAL channels, but criminals don't usually follow the law!). "
I completely agree...He has a fight on his hands with these gun safety measures..I do sincerely hope they address this as well..This is going to be a brutal fight and we'll see what happens...I do know he's taking it to the people. I know he's going to go out to those southern (RED) gun states to pitch this..Let's hope they keep an open mind because at the end of the day, the President is NOT infringing on anyone's 2nd amendment right, and he's NOT taking anyone's guns away. He's just trying to do what is morally right for our country..Too many of our fellow citizens die unnecessarily by gun fire....
Good topic/discussion, btw, MrsP.
Seriously, besides a couple of posts in the thread, everyone has stayed on topic and respectful.
Good job folks;-)
Seriously, besides a couple of posts in the thread, everyone has stayed on topic and respectful.
Good job folks;-)
I agree with MrsP that you have to start somewhere.
I agree with Brice that bad people intent on doing bad things will always find a way.
I disagree with MrsP's statement: "....but then again how many guns does one need?..." because that's an INDIVIDUALS business, not mine or yours. Some people collect matches, some collet stamps, some collect glasswear, some collect knives, some collect plans & tanks, and some collect guns. If I want to have 27 old circa-WW2 tanks in my collection, who are you tell me I can't? If I want to have 1,253 guns of various types and calibers and shapes and sizes, that's MY business (limit the bullets perhaps? I don't know...)
My 2 cents: placing additional restrictions on obtaining guns, through legal channels, isn't necessarily a bad thing. Fine, do a deeper background check. Fine, make me wait longer. a) I've got nothing to hide, and b) I can sit and wait for a month if I need to.
But that said, what Obama did does not address the issue of making gun-free-zones safer (yes, it's going to make a tiny bit harder to obtain a gun through LEGAL channels, but criminals don't usually follow the law!).
If I was intent on shooting a bunch of people... the gun-free-zones are where I'D head. Wouldn't you?
Fish-in-a-barrel, comes to mind, no?
I agree with Brice that bad people intent on doing bad things will always find a way.
I disagree with MrsP's statement: "....but then again how many guns does one need?..." because that's an INDIVIDUALS business, not mine or yours. Some people collect matches, some collet stamps, some collect glasswear, some collect knives, some collect plans & tanks, and some collect guns. If I want to have 27 old circa-WW2 tanks in my collection, who are you tell me I can't? If I want to have 1,253 guns of various types and calibers and shapes and sizes, that's MY business (limit the bullets perhaps? I don't know...)
My 2 cents: placing additional restrictions on obtaining guns, through legal channels, isn't necessarily a bad thing. Fine, do a deeper background check. Fine, make me wait longer. a) I've got nothing to hide, and b) I can sit and wait for a month if I need to.
But that said, what Obama did does not address the issue of making gun-free-zones safer (yes, it's going to make a tiny bit harder to obtain a gun through LEGAL channels, but criminals don't usually follow the law!).
If I was intent on shooting a bunch of people... the gun-free-zones are where I'D head. Wouldn't you?
Fish-in-a-barrel, comes to mind, no?
I think that's pretty reasonable, but then again, a lot of the 18-21 year old I know...yeeeeeesh. Course, there not usually a whole lot better by 24 or 25 either.
Then you have the 50 year olds who are as mature as my first grader.
Well, hell....maybe they should do it by maturity rather than actual age. LOL
Then you have the 50 year olds who are as mature as my first grader.
Well, hell....maybe they should do it by maturity rather than actual age. LOL
Im pretty sure that's what it is here.
Nope..just chatting....Jason actually said he thought there should be an age limit in order to purchase guns. I asked him what age and he said 25. Thoughts? .
Ok, that's what I thought.
What's the age now? Does it vary per state? I was under the impression it was 18 for shotguns and rifles, and 21 for handguns. That may just be here in PA
Ok, that's what I thought.
What's the age now? Does it vary per state? I was under the impression it was 18 for shotguns and rifles, and 21 for handguns. That may just be here in PA
"Was that proposed in this announcement too, or was this just something we're chatting about?"
Nope..just chatting....Jason actually said he thought there should be an age limit in order to purchase guns. I asked him what age and he said 25. Thoughts?
Nope..just chatting....Jason actually said he thought there should be an age limit in order to purchase guns. I asked him what age and he said 25. Thoughts?
I highly doubt most people keep a crazy amount lying around anyway, I know my hubby keeps only what he can fit in the gun safe (you'd be amazed at how much he can fit in there, lol)
I see what you're saying, and it's reasonable and makes sense, I just honestly cannot see placing a limit,...I mean, 200-300 is a lot of bullets in the context of a criminal act, and so is 1,000. Know what I mean?
Was that proposed in this announcement too, or was this just something we're chatting about?
Was that proposed in this announcement too, or was this just something we're chatting about?
Disregard my last post....
Wait a minute. Who here is making this a political issue?
(one thing the Brady bill did do was make reloading not so cost worthy.) All of the components went through the roof.
"(Can't afford ammunition as it stands)...Yes it is friggen EXPENSIVE....lol
I understand what you're saying, however, when it comes down to it, they do not NEED to have that many bullets..500 bullets per gun should fine...but then again how many guns does one need? Jason has several guns. so I get it I don't have the answers..I'm just saying no one REALLY ever NEEDS that many bullets.....
I respect that answer and thank you for answering the question. If I were to be practicing on a regular basis, I would easily go through 200 rounds each time at the range. I would then have to replace those 200.
I could see the amount of ammunition I could burn through being an issue, say over the course of a month. I should be burning about 800 rounds minimum a month. I'm not even close to that these days. (Can't afford ammunition as it stands)
I could see the amount of ammunition I could burn through being an issue, say over the course of a month. I should be burning about 800 rounds minimum a month. I'm not even close to that these days. (Can't afford ammunition as it stands)
..So the average person doesn't need more than 500 bullets...
(Keep in mind I, myself have nothing to do with guns)
I disagree. While it may seem like it's excessive, who's to say that? Again, we're talking law abiding citizens here with (obviously) no ill intent. I know that my husband has several guns that use the same kind of ammo. Just the money saving aspect of it is something important.
My hubby reloaded his own bullets for YEARS until he got lazy..it's very easy to do...so it's not like people couldn't make an unlimited amt of ammo.
I just think limiting one aspect should be enough, IMO of course.
(Keep in mind I, myself have nothing to do with guns)
I disagree. While it may seem like it's excessive, who's to say that? Again, we're talking law abiding citizens here with (obviously) no ill intent. I know that my husband has several guns that use the same kind of ammo. Just the money saving aspect of it is something important.
My hubby reloaded his own bullets for YEARS until he got lazy..it's very easy to do...so it's not like people couldn't make an unlimited amt of ammo.
I just think limiting one aspect should be enough, IMO of course.
MrsP, you mentioned that nobody should be allowed to order "mass quantities" of bullets on line.
See...I see the point of feeling like restricting this would be a good measure, but I know, per hubby, bullets are EXPENSIVE!!! Him and his friends have gone together many times to split a very large order of ammo online. WAY more than ther numbers brice is talking about.
I dunno....bad guys are going to get bullets, even if it takes them a couple shopping trips to do so..I'm not sure that's a measure that would be even necessary and WOULD affect how people can save themselves lots of money by buying in bulk.
(Now I'm waiting for flashing blue lights to appear in the driveway, lol)
See...I see the point of feeling like restricting this would be a good measure, but I know, per hubby, bullets are EXPENSIVE!!! Him and his friends have gone together many times to split a very large order of ammo online. WAY more than ther numbers brice is talking about.
I dunno....bad guys are going to get bullets, even if it takes them a couple shopping trips to do so..I'm not sure that's a measure that would be even necessary and WOULD affect how people can save themselves lots of money by buying in bulk.
(Now I'm waiting for flashing blue lights to appear in the driveway, lol)
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A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Condoms are the most effective way to prevent HIV and STDs.
PrEP is used by people with high risk to prevent HIV infection.
