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Voter disdain spreads as 'fiscal cliff' looms
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20121211/DA33FA000.html
Dec 11, 3:55 AM (ET)
By STEVE PEOPLES
(AP) President Barack Obama speaks to workers about the economy during a visit to Daimler Detroit Diesel...
HOOKSET, N.H. (AP) - Fear and frustration course through the lunch crowd at Robie's Country Store and Deli, a popular outpost 500 miles from where Washington is again locked in tense negotiations over taxes and spending as a critical deadline looms.
"I'm worried," Lorraine Cadren of nearby Manchester says between bites of her chicken sandwich. Her doubt in the nation's elected leaders is palpable: "I'm not sure what's going to come out of Washington next." Not that she has the time to pay much attention; the 64-year-old is unemployed and preoccupied with finding a new job as Christmas approaches.
A few tables away, John Pfeifle shares Cadren's angst while trying to enjoy his $6.99 chicken parmesan special.
"Somebody's gotta have some smarts," says the 63-year-old business owner, complaining that both President Barack Obama and House Republicans seem willing to allow the nation to go over the "fiscal cliff," triggering broad tax increases and massive spending cuts that economists warn could lead to another recession.
"I have no faith at all they'll do the right thing," Pfeifle said of Congress.
And why would these voters have confidence in Washington?
The scene playing out on Capitol Hill is a familiar one as lawmakers with competing ideologies wage an 11th-hour battle to avert a predictable crisis. This one comes just a year after an equally divided Washington nearly let the country default on its loan obligations - a debt-ceiling debate that contributed to the electorate's deep lack of faith in their elected leaders and a drop in the nation's credit rating.
Evidence of Congress' plummeting popularity is everywhere.
From New Hampshire diners to Colorado coffee shops, weary residents report widespread concern. They relate the debate in Washington over their tax dollars with their own lives: average Americans who are struggling every day to make ends meet. And already distracted by the holidays and tired of politics after a bitter presidential campaign, they are calling on Washington to get its act together.
"It's pathetic. Nobody's doing their job," said Laura Hager, a retiree from Lancaster, Pa. "The rest of the country is being held hostage to this entire situation."
She said the uncertainty makes it difficult to shape a personal financial plan; she can't imagine what business leaders must be going through. "Nobody can plan. Nobody knows what they'll do," she said.
Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va., warned that the public's disgust with Congress would reach new heights if lawmakers and the White House fail to reach an accord before the year-end deadline.
"Ninety percent disapproval rating is going to go up to 99 percent disapproval," the senator said at a panel discussion last week in Washington on the fiscal cliff's impact on businesses.
Warner overstated Congress' unpopularity, although not by much.
A recent Associated Press-GfK poll found that 74 percent of Americans disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job; just 23 percent approve. The figures are virtually unchanged from June and slightly above Congress' recent low point of 12 percent approval during the debt ceiling debate in August 2011.
Some voters are trying to ignore the debate altogether, although near-constant news coverage is making that difficult, especially as Obama and his Republican opponents work to rally their supporters.
In a campaign-style event Monday in Michigan, the heart of industrial America, Obama warned that he "won't compromise" on his demand that the wealthiest Americans pay more in taxes. Polls find that most voters agree with the president's deficit-cutting plan to raise tax rates on income over $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples, although House Republicans are reluctant to agree.
The conservative group Crossroads GPS is running television ads across the country describing Obama's solution as "a huge tax increase" with "no real spending reforms.""Call President Obama and tell him it's time to show us a balanced plan," the ad says.
Most voters interviewed in recent days are calling for an immediate compromise and seem willing to raise taxes on the wealthy so long as the middle class is protected.
There is a vague sense that the "fiscal cliff" is more serious than other recent Capitol Hill clashes. But barely a month after the presidential contest ended, most people say they're not following the daily developments that consume Washington.
In a Denver coffee shop, interior designer Roxann Lloyd, 42, is mystified by the sound and fury out of Washington over the cliff.
"I don't think they have any idea what a big deal is to an average person," she said. "I'm just ignoring it."
Lloyd said she isn't surprised by the partisan bickering over the issue. "I don't feel like they are really looking out for us," she said of Congress.
John Baker, 65, a Denver psychologist, said he had little faith in Congress' ability to fix the problem: "I don't think Congress can fix a flat tire."
"It's a typical Washington, 'Let's hit the panic button and keep people scared so they will let us do what we want to do,'" Baker said in a downtown Denver Starbucks. "Ultimately, it will be fixed but not until a lot of pockets are lined."
It's unclear whether members of Congress are hearing the message.
Rep. Charlie Bass, a New Hampshire Republican who lost his re-election bid last month, says it's unclear whether his GOP colleagues will "face the reality that the president, at least at this point, is not going to accept anything other than a tax rate increase."
A stalemate would result in "painful uncertainty," Bass said, offering his caucus a bit of advice: "We best get on with it - get it done."
Back at Robie's, store owner Debbie Chouinard says she's burned out from election season and "tired of all the bull."
"I honestly haven't been paying attention," she said while feeding her 2-year-old granddaughter lunch during a brief lull. "People should be working together to get this country going."
---
Associated Press writers Nicholas Riccardi in Denver and Bill Barrow in Atlanta contributed to this report.
Dec 11, 3:55 AM (ET)
By STEVE PEOPLES
(AP) President Barack Obama speaks to workers about the economy during a visit to Daimler Detroit Diesel...
HOOKSET, N.H. (AP) - Fear and frustration course through the lunch crowd at Robie's Country Store and Deli, a popular outpost 500 miles from where Washington is again locked in tense negotiations over taxes and spending as a critical deadline looms.
"I'm worried," Lorraine Cadren of nearby Manchester says between bites of her chicken sandwich. Her doubt in the nation's elected leaders is palpable: "I'm not sure what's going to come out of Washington next." Not that she has the time to pay much attention; the 64-year-old is unemployed and preoccupied with finding a new job as Christmas approaches.
A few tables away, John Pfeifle shares Cadren's angst while trying to enjoy his $6.99 chicken parmesan special.
"Somebody's gotta have some smarts," says the 63-year-old business owner, complaining that both President Barack Obama and House Republicans seem willing to allow the nation to go over the "fiscal cliff," triggering broad tax increases and massive spending cuts that economists warn could lead to another recession.
"I have no faith at all they'll do the right thing," Pfeifle said of Congress.
And why would these voters have confidence in Washington?
The scene playing out on Capitol Hill is a familiar one as lawmakers with competing ideologies wage an 11th-hour battle to avert a predictable crisis. This one comes just a year after an equally divided Washington nearly let the country default on its loan obligations - a debt-ceiling debate that contributed to the electorate's deep lack of faith in their elected leaders and a drop in the nation's credit rating.
Evidence of Congress' plummeting popularity is everywhere.
From New Hampshire diners to Colorado coffee shops, weary residents report widespread concern. They relate the debate in Washington over their tax dollars with their own lives: average Americans who are struggling every day to make ends meet. And already distracted by the holidays and tired of politics after a bitter presidential campaign, they are calling on Washington to get its act together.
"It's pathetic. Nobody's doing their job," said Laura Hager, a retiree from Lancaster, Pa. "The rest of the country is being held hostage to this entire situation."
She said the uncertainty makes it difficult to shape a personal financial plan; she can't imagine what business leaders must be going through. "Nobody can plan. Nobody knows what they'll do," she said.
Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va., warned that the public's disgust with Congress would reach new heights if lawmakers and the White House fail to reach an accord before the year-end deadline.
"Ninety percent disapproval rating is going to go up to 99 percent disapproval," the senator said at a panel discussion last week in Washington on the fiscal cliff's impact on businesses.
Warner overstated Congress' unpopularity, although not by much.
A recent Associated Press-GfK poll found that 74 percent of Americans disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job; just 23 percent approve. The figures are virtually unchanged from June and slightly above Congress' recent low point of 12 percent approval during the debt ceiling debate in August 2011.
Some voters are trying to ignore the debate altogether, although near-constant news coverage is making that difficult, especially as Obama and his Republican opponents work to rally their supporters.
In a campaign-style event Monday in Michigan, the heart of industrial America, Obama warned that he "won't compromise" on his demand that the wealthiest Americans pay more in taxes. Polls find that most voters agree with the president's deficit-cutting plan to raise tax rates on income over $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples, although House Republicans are reluctant to agree.
The conservative group Crossroads GPS is running television ads across the country describing Obama's solution as "a huge tax increase" with "no real spending reforms.""Call President Obama and tell him it's time to show us a balanced plan," the ad says.
Most voters interviewed in recent days are calling for an immediate compromise and seem willing to raise taxes on the wealthy so long as the middle class is protected.
There is a vague sense that the "fiscal cliff" is more serious than other recent Capitol Hill clashes. But barely a month after the presidential contest ended, most people say they're not following the daily developments that consume Washington.
In a Denver coffee shop, interior designer Roxann Lloyd, 42, is mystified by the sound and fury out of Washington over the cliff.
"I don't think they have any idea what a big deal is to an average person," she said. "I'm just ignoring it."
Lloyd said she isn't surprised by the partisan bickering over the issue. "I don't feel like they are really looking out for us," she said of Congress.
John Baker, 65, a Denver psychologist, said he had little faith in Congress' ability to fix the problem: "I don't think Congress can fix a flat tire."
"It's a typical Washington, 'Let's hit the panic button and keep people scared so they will let us do what we want to do,'" Baker said in a downtown Denver Starbucks. "Ultimately, it will be fixed but not until a lot of pockets are lined."
It's unclear whether members of Congress are hearing the message.
Rep. Charlie Bass, a New Hampshire Republican who lost his re-election bid last month, says it's unclear whether his GOP colleagues will "face the reality that the president, at least at this point, is not going to accept anything other than a tax rate increase."
A stalemate would result in "painful uncertainty," Bass said, offering his caucus a bit of advice: "We best get on with it - get it done."
Back at Robie's, store owner Debbie Chouinard says she's burned out from election season and "tired of all the bull."
"I honestly haven't been paying attention," she said while feeding her 2-year-old granddaughter lunch during a brief lull. "People should be working together to get this country going."
---
Associated Press writers Nicholas Riccardi in Denver and Bill Barrow in Atlanta contributed to this report.
"It's unclear whether members of Congress are hearing the message."
Seems that they're hearing SOME message, but not necessarily the right one. They hear nothing about compromise or doing what's right. Apparently, they're listening to the lobbyists and others with pull, not their constituents.
Seems that they're hearing SOME message, but not necessarily the right one. They hear nothing about compromise or doing what's right. Apparently, they're listening to the lobbyists and others with pull, not their constituents.
It kind of disturbs me that the president is "campaigning" about this, travelling here and there. Shouldn't he be busy working to try and resolve this?
The news was showing several snippets of his speeches in different places (one in MI, where they're fighting over the "right to work" issue)...and he was really slamming GOPs...basically laying all the blame on them. That's just not right...and he continues to be very divisive.
This article I think reflects how most people feel. Tired of the bull, is right. Both sides need to get their sh*t together, and Obama needs to be brainstorming, not out on a campaign trail. Very disappointing.
The news was showing several snippets of his speeches in different places (one in MI, where they're fighting over the "right to work" issue)...and he was really slamming GOPs...basically laying all the blame on them. That's just not right...and he continues to be very divisive.
This article I think reflects how most people feel. Tired of the bull, is right. Both sides need to get their sh*t together, and Obama needs to be brainstorming, not out on a campaign trail. Very disappointing.
I got my parachute ready. Lets do this! I say jump!
You're disappointed in Obama ?
What about the Republicans who refuse to compromise ?
Obama won the election.
Time to let those tax breaks for the rich expire.
What about the Republicans who refuse to compromise ?
Obama won the election.
Time to let those tax breaks for the rich expire.
No, I am not disappointed in Obama at all and I say we have had enuff being held hostage by Grover Norquist. Im ready to jump off that cliff! Obama will not cave on this and I personally am totally happy about that.
I don't care anymore if we go off. I'm with the group of people that says "let's give the president EVERYTHING" he asked for in his proposal so he is accountable. Otherwise, for whatever reason, the GOP gets all the blame while both sides are equal in that to me.
But I don't care if we go off the cliff. I'm done worrying about it. I do, however, agree that Obama needs to quit the campaigning 'convince' people he is right. I was sick of campaigning while the election was going on.
But I don't care if we go off the cliff. I'm done worrying about it. I do, however, agree that Obama needs to quit the campaigning 'convince' people he is right. I was sick of campaigning while the election was going on.
"You're disappointed in Obama ?
What about the Republicans who refuse to compromise ?"
Being too close to center to agree with either, *I* am disappointed in them all, because they're acting like babies. I don't like that Obama is "campaigning" to get his way; this isn't a campaign, this is our lives. Nor do I like being held hostage by the Republicans. We all have to come to terms with the idea that part of the country thinks like Obama, part thinks like the Republicans, and SO many of sit in the middle, seeing both sides, but not really agreeing with either.
Just because Obama won the election, doesn't mean that the majority of the people agree with him. Some voted for him, simply because he's a Democrat, others voted for him simply because he's black, other voted for him, because, while they don't agree with ALL of his policies, but they come closer to the beliefs of certain voters. The very same goes for the Republicans. Right or wrong, many voted for what they perceived to be "the lesser of 2 evils"......... or not necessarily FOR a candidate, but AGAINST another candidate.
I think more and more of us are thinking like teko --- let's all hold hands and jump at the same time........
What about the Republicans who refuse to compromise ?"
Being too close to center to agree with either, *I* am disappointed in them all, because they're acting like babies. I don't like that Obama is "campaigning" to get his way; this isn't a campaign, this is our lives. Nor do I like being held hostage by the Republicans. We all have to come to terms with the idea that part of the country thinks like Obama, part thinks like the Republicans, and SO many of sit in the middle, seeing both sides, but not really agreeing with either.
Just because Obama won the election, doesn't mean that the majority of the people agree with him. Some voted for him, simply because he's a Democrat, others voted for him simply because he's black, other voted for him, because, while they don't agree with ALL of his policies, but they come closer to the beliefs of certain voters. The very same goes for the Republicans. Right or wrong, many voted for what they perceived to be "the lesser of 2 evils"......... or not necessarily FOR a candidate, but AGAINST another candidate.
I think more and more of us are thinking like teko --- let's all hold hands and jump at the same time........
Yes, I am disappointed in both sides. I think Obama has been unreasonable from the beginning, and I'm tired of hearing that he has the right to be unreasonable because he won the election. Are we going to hear that during any and all negotiation? If so, then I agree with SM...the GOP should just cave all together and let the whole thing lie on his shoulders (which it won't anyway).
I think it's in poor taste that he's campaigning to garner even more support...talk show hosts, now public appearances. Wouldn't it be more useful if he were sitting at a desk, trying to figure this out?
I'm also disappointed in the GOP, for their comntinued stance on the tax hikes. While I agree with their stance, it's time to compromise.
Generally speaking, it's a shame that Obama spends SO much time reminding us who the majority chose. I don't take his win away from him...but what about the LARGE % of people who DIDN'T choose him? Do we matter at all? Does he care at all what we think? I'm, guessing no...because he continues to remind us over and over and over that "the people" have spoken. Well, not ALL the people...but most.
I would like to see him do more than propose a ridiculous unreasonable plan, then blame everything on the GOP. Yes, I'm very disappointed. I've tried to remain open minded, even with my bias...but I don't like what I've seen so far.
I think it's in poor taste that he's campaigning to garner even more support...talk show hosts, now public appearances. Wouldn't it be more useful if he were sitting at a desk, trying to figure this out?
I'm also disappointed in the GOP, for their comntinued stance on the tax hikes. While I agree with their stance, it's time to compromise.
Generally speaking, it's a shame that Obama spends SO much time reminding us who the majority chose. I don't take his win away from him...but what about the LARGE % of people who DIDN'T choose him? Do we matter at all? Does he care at all what we think? I'm, guessing no...because he continues to remind us over and over and over that "the people" have spoken. Well, not ALL the people...but most.
I would like to see him do more than propose a ridiculous unreasonable plan, then blame everything on the GOP. Yes, I'm very disappointed. I've tried to remain open minded, even with my bias...but I don't like what I've seen so far.
Well I voted for him, not because he is black or because he is democrat, but because I agree with him. No tax rate hike, no talk. By going over the cliff, it cuts everything they agreed to a year and a half ago. They created this cliff, no compromise on the horizon, lets jump I say! But I find it sort of interesting that they set this up in case they could not compromise and a year and a half later are in the same situation. JUMP
Hey, I'm with ya. I don't care anymore. I'll be just fine. The Democrats and the Republicans both aren't working together. So, let us go. I just want Obama to OWN that he sent us ther as much as the GOP.
If the GOP worship Norquist more than they care about us and want to hold 98 percent of the people hostage over the tax cuts for the two percent, it says it all imo. And according to the polls, most americans feel the same way. Let em all expire and let the pain begin! I have nothing to lose so lets do this!
Well, who are the Democrats worshiping? Why won't they bend either? So much blame on the GOP when Obama's proposal showed EXACTLY how much he wants to work things out. We are going off the cliff AS MUCH due to Democrats as Republicans. And I'm fine with that. I hope there is backlash against BOTH sides (AND obama).
The backlash is for power plays and inability to compromise.
Obama ran on letting those tax cuts expire. He said he would not compromise on them a second time, we agreed and voted him in. The gop watched that campaign just as much as we did, if we go over the cliff it will be on the GOP and the majority of voters feel that way. Now we got all this panic about this cliff which probably amounts to a molehill anyway. The next battle will be the debt ceiling being held hostage so the country will default on its bills. Just watch.
I suspect that somebody is going to cave, in order to not be "blamed", but if they don't, as I said earlier "Let's all hold hands and jump together"....
I guess the next "message" to Congress will be 2014; anybody want to take bets as to whether they will get the right message or not? I'm guessing not any more than the past elections because they don't get the "right" message.
I guess the next "message" to Congress will be 2014; anybody want to take bets as to whether they will get the right message or not? I'm guessing not any more than the past elections because they don't get the "right" message.
Ha, well---- some big spenders want to have NO debt ceiling. Dems (along with the president) are as bad at working with Republicans as Republicans are with Democrats. EVERY American should feel let down by our government.
You got to pay the bills and allowing the gop to hold the debt ceiling hostage and use it to shut the country down is stupid. Pure stupidity. We have been thru this before and the pres says no more. What do you think we should do? Just shut it all down? Well hell, lets do that too! Im good with that!
I have nothing in the markets and am not on any kind of government teat, bring it!
Well, thank goodness my husband gives me a debt ceiling or I'd spend the country into bankruptcy. Obama and I have a lot in common. (okay, I threw myself under the bus to make a point. I'm actually quite responsible with the money I have and don't overspend. And I'm honest about it when I'm running out of cash and we have to cut back.)
Short memories, Bush raised the debt ceiling 16 times without narry a complaint or a raised eyebrow. Now lets just put it in perspective here. Two wars on the tab and in the same frame of time tax cuts to boot. Would your husband call that a sensible move? So they want to do the same things all over again and make the cuts permanant and pay for it by cutting spending. LOL, To hell with medicare and social security,screw them people, who cares, but we will not give on the tax cuts for the two percent cause we took an oath yu see
This is a waste of time. You see it one way and I see it the polar opposite, so lets just leave it there shall we.
This is a waste of time. You see it one way and I see it the polar opposite, so lets just leave it there shall we.
I've said, by the way, that while I do not feel it is fair--- in these difficult times of great debt and financial issues in our country, that yes, we have to tax the top 2%. I would love it to be the same way tax cuts are in that it goes for a certain period of time like 2 years or 4 years and then the govt. re evaluates just as they are the Bush cuts now. But whatever. Desperate times call for desperate measures and we do need money right now. I just hate to see it go to expanding any programs.
You simply can not just keep spending when you don't have it. I'm not trying to screw anyone but if we don't pull it back in---- we enter unchartered territory (oh no . . . we won't have the Bush years to refer back to, WHAT will we do???) for debt.
You simply can not just keep spending when you don't have it. I'm not trying to screw anyone but if we don't pull it back in---- we enter unchartered territory (oh no . . . we won't have the Bush years to refer back to, WHAT will we do???) for debt.
Back to blaming Bush? When will this stop? Never?
"Desperate times call for desperate measures and we do need money right now. I just hate to see it go to expanding any programs."
Don't think for one minute that the money will go toward the deficit. It's all going to come down to which programs they agree to cut, and which they agree to expand.
My crystal ball tells me that SS and Medicare will be cut, while Medicaid and other welfare programs will be expanded. Sometimes, my crystal ball gets foggy, but it looks pretty clear right now.
"Desperate times call for desperate measures and we do need money right now. I just hate to see it go to expanding any programs."
Don't think for one minute that the money will go toward the deficit. It's all going to come down to which programs they agree to cut, and which they agree to expand.
My crystal ball tells me that SS and Medicare will be cut, while Medicaid and other welfare programs will be expanded. Sometimes, my crystal ball gets foggy, but it looks pretty clear right now.
Ugh. That would be disappointing, wouldn't it?
It's funny how taking an issue that effects 98% of Americans and asking those same Americans for their support and for their voices to be heard, is considered campaigning....The point is the President has laid down a plan that includes BOTH Revenue and cuts to Medicare (on top of cuts already made to medicare) like the repubs want. However, the repubs don't like the way he cuts Medicare. They want him to cut it their way but they won't specify. The President was VERY clear that if he was re-elected, he would let the tax cuts end for the top 2% income earners and continue them permanently for 98% of Americans. The republicans are holding this deal up. Why? beats the heck out of me.
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