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Black Woman Stands Her Ground
http://www.speroforum.com/a/ABTQXCNTFM32/73128-Black-woman-stands-her-ground-kills-white-man#.UeW34qy0T_e
Houston area investigators are looking into a stand-your-ground case where after a minor fender-bender, a 22-year-old white male was shot and killed by a 23-year-old black woman. During a morning commute, Crystal Scott and Jonathan Ables were in an accident and pulled into a Shell gasoline station to survey the damage.
According to Scott, Ables exited his truck and ran toward her driver-side door. Scott said he yelled and then hit her door and tried to open it. Fearing for her life, Scott pulled her pistol and shot Ables once through the driver’s window and struck him in the chest. Ables died at the scene.
A Harris County Sheriff’s spokesman, Sgt. Felipe Rivera said “From what we understand it was maybe just a minor accident,” while adding, “The information we’re getting is that it appeared to be a minor accident that turned into road rage.”
Nonetheless, the victim’s girlfriend, Evelyn Bautista, claimed that Ables was not aggressive. “He’s just a regular guy,” she said. Ables’ family members also claim that it is hard to believe that he deserved his killing.
Bautista believes Ables was merely attempting to exchange insurance information with Scott. “I’ll leave it up to God. I’m not one to judge. It’s just unfair that they took him away from me like that,” she wept. “I just want justice. That’s it.” Bautista was first apprised of Ables’ death via social media.
Ables’ sister-in-law, who has insisted on anonymity, said official investigators have already sided with Scott. “If you don’t even contact the victim’s family, that just shows how you’re already siding on one side, you don’t even care what the other people are feeling to even tell them,” she said. “If she feared for her life or something, why didn’t she just drive off? Why’d she have to attack him? I don’t understand,” she added.
Scott retained legal counsel soon after the incident. Attorney Letitia Quiñones claims her client has a concealed weapon permit and reacted properly in the face of danger. “[She] got involved in road rage with an individual who wrecked her car, followed her into a gas station and jumped out of his car and began attacking her car,” she said.
“She did only what anybody in that position would be. She was in fear of imminent bodily injury or death and she ended it herself,” said Quiñones. Alleging that Ables broke the driver’s side window of Scott’s car, Quiñones cited this as evidence of the ferocity of the attack. Quiñones said that Scott is traumatized by the incident.
Bishop James Dixon, Scott’s pastor, said of the encounter, "There was a car accident and they pulled over into the Shell station to talk about it." Dixon said, "This was a normal morning for her into work. It's unfortunate that her morning did not proceed as planned."
“All we know is, she said it was self defense, and I really don’t want to go into details,” said Dixon. “She’s a wonderful young lady, and she’s a church member at Community Faith Church, where I pastor, along with her mother. She’s just a good values-based person, a hard working young lady.”
An eyewitness, who appeared on camera but has requested anonymity, said that he did not hear any threat in the seconds before Scott killed Ables. The witness was pumping gas and standing 15 feet away from Ables when a bullet ricocheted past him and struck his car. The bullet left a noticeable impression on the witness’s car.
As for Scott’s version of events, the witness said that if Ables had shouted or banged on the car, he would have heard it. “What drew my attention was the gunshot,” said the witness. “I just want to be sure that I do everything in my power that everything is fair. I care about it being fair,” he said. The Harris County sheriff’s department has not yet responded to Spero News’ request for any security footage of the shooting.
Spero News editor Martin Barillas is a former US diplomat, who also worked as a democracy advocate and election observer in Latin America. He is also a freelance translator.
Houston area investigators are looking into a stand-your-ground case where after a minor fender-bender, a 22-year-old white male was shot and killed by a 23-year-old black woman. During a morning commute, Crystal Scott and Jonathan Ables were in an accident and pulled into a Shell gasoline station to survey the damage.
According to Scott, Ables exited his truck and ran toward her driver-side door. Scott said he yelled and then hit her door and tried to open it. Fearing for her life, Scott pulled her pistol and shot Ables once through the driver’s window and struck him in the chest. Ables died at the scene.
A Harris County Sheriff’s spokesman, Sgt. Felipe Rivera said “From what we understand it was maybe just a minor accident,” while adding, “The information we’re getting is that it appeared to be a minor accident that turned into road rage.”
Nonetheless, the victim’s girlfriend, Evelyn Bautista, claimed that Ables was not aggressive. “He’s just a regular guy,” she said. Ables’ family members also claim that it is hard to believe that he deserved his killing.
Bautista believes Ables was merely attempting to exchange insurance information with Scott. “I’ll leave it up to God. I’m not one to judge. It’s just unfair that they took him away from me like that,” she wept. “I just want justice. That’s it.” Bautista was first apprised of Ables’ death via social media.
Ables’ sister-in-law, who has insisted on anonymity, said official investigators have already sided with Scott. “If you don’t even contact the victim’s family, that just shows how you’re already siding on one side, you don’t even care what the other people are feeling to even tell them,” she said. “If she feared for her life or something, why didn’t she just drive off? Why’d she have to attack him? I don’t understand,” she added.
Scott retained legal counsel soon after the incident. Attorney Letitia Quiñones claims her client has a concealed weapon permit and reacted properly in the face of danger. “[She] got involved in road rage with an individual who wrecked her car, followed her into a gas station and jumped out of his car and began attacking her car,” she said.
“She did only what anybody in that position would be. She was in fear of imminent bodily injury or death and she ended it herself,” said Quiñones. Alleging that Ables broke the driver’s side window of Scott’s car, Quiñones cited this as evidence of the ferocity of the attack. Quiñones said that Scott is traumatized by the incident.
Bishop James Dixon, Scott’s pastor, said of the encounter, "There was a car accident and they pulled over into the Shell station to talk about it." Dixon said, "This was a normal morning for her into work. It's unfortunate that her morning did not proceed as planned."
“All we know is, she said it was self defense, and I really don’t want to go into details,” said Dixon. “She’s a wonderful young lady, and she’s a church member at Community Faith Church, where I pastor, along with her mother. She’s just a good values-based person, a hard working young lady.”
An eyewitness, who appeared on camera but has requested anonymity, said that he did not hear any threat in the seconds before Scott killed Ables. The witness was pumping gas and standing 15 feet away from Ables when a bullet ricocheted past him and struck his car. The bullet left a noticeable impression on the witness’s car.
As for Scott’s version of events, the witness said that if Ables had shouted or banged on the car, he would have heard it. “What drew my attention was the gunshot,” said the witness. “I just want to be sure that I do everything in my power that everything is fair. I care about it being fair,” he said. The Harris County sheriff’s department has not yet responded to Spero News’ request for any security footage of the shooting.
Spero News editor Martin Barillas is a former US diplomat, who also worked as a democracy advocate and election observer in Latin America. He is also a freelance translator.
I had a long written out post, but it will go no where so nothing to say I guess is the best thing to say (write).
Vance, you need to get over yourself. Do you work in a professional environment? I'm sure you are aware of internet/email etiquette. Writing in all caps is the equivalent of yelling and frowned upon.
And just like actual yelling, it doesn't cause anyone to listen to another ay better or in this case read what is actually written and think about it.
And it is a little disingenuous for you to ask anyone to think about what you've written when you very clearly do not give that same courtesy to others.
I think you are too emotionally invested in the topic of GZ for some reason. This creates a break down in that you are unwilling to accept any other opinions on the subject. And when it gets to that point, it is no longer a conversation.
I am tired of your talking AT me and then telling me that I and others don't listen or read or think about what you have to say or write. The fact is--- I have and disagree with it.
good luck and can we PLEASE be done. It goes nowhere and this isn't twitter where anyone wants to just fight for eons on the same topic.
Peace to all including you Vance!
And just like actual yelling, it doesn't cause anyone to listen to another ay better or in this case read what is actually written and think about it.
And it is a little disingenuous for you to ask anyone to think about what you've written when you very clearly do not give that same courtesy to others.
I think you are too emotionally invested in the topic of GZ for some reason. This creates a break down in that you are unwilling to accept any other opinions on the subject. And when it gets to that point, it is no longer a conversation.
I am tired of your talking AT me and then telling me that I and others don't listen or read or think about what you have to say or write. The fact is--- I have and disagree with it.
good luck and can we PLEASE be done. It goes nowhere and this isn't twitter where anyone wants to just fight for eons on the same topic.
Peace to all including you Vance!
THIS IS NOT YELLING, THIS IS MAKING SURE SOMEONE READS WHAT IS ACTUALLY WRITTEN AND THINKS ABOUT WHAT IS SAID.
I get it, a woman is convicted because she broke the law. A man is found innocent because of self defense. Stop trying to make 2 cases line up together because you can't because they will not.
But you keep trying to apply stand your ground to Zimmemrman when it has nothing to do with it, his was classic self defense. He was taking a "whoop-***" and feared for his life and fired a single shot.
I get it, a woman is convicted because she broke the law. A man is found innocent because of self defense. Stop trying to make 2 cases line up together because you can't because they will not.
But you keep trying to apply stand your ground to Zimmemrman when it has nothing to do with it, his was classic self defense. He was taking a "whoop-***" and feared for his life and fired a single shot.
There's no need to yell........ We know Zimmerman's case was not stand your ground, but it was about self defense, which is also what stand your ground is about.
You are not getting it are you? Im done.
ZIMMERMAN WAS NOT STAND YOUR GROUND
A man in Florida shoots a man he finds having sex with his wife, killing him. A woman in Florida shoots the wall to scare off an abusive husband, harming nobody. Guess which one was acquitted? Guess which one was convicted?
On March 10 of this year, around midnight, Ralph Wald, 70, of Brandon, Fla., got out of bed to get a drink and found Walter Conley, 32, having sex with his wife, Johanna Lynn Flores, 41, in the living room. He immediately went back into his bedroom, grabbed his gun and shot Conley three times. Conley died. Wald claims that he thought Conley was a stranger who had broken in and was raping his wife – despite the fact that Conley lived next door, had been his wife’s roommate and lover, and had his wife’s name tattooed onto his neck and arm. During a 911 call, when the dispatcher asked Wald if the man he shot was dead, Wald responded, “I hope so!” Wald never used the word “rape” in later reports to police, opting instead for “fornicate.” And while the fact that the two were lovers doesn’t imply consent, Flores has never accused Conley of rape — nor do prosecutors buy that that’s what Wald actually thought was happening. They say that Wald, who suffers from erectile dysfunction, killed Conley in a jealous rage. Flores admits that she and Conley had sex regularly before and after her marriage to Wald. While testifying, Wald explained that his erectile dysfunction and his wife’s reluctance to have sex with him made them compatible: “In fact, she would joke a lot with me … that we were a perfect couple … She didn’t want to do it, and I couldn’t do it.” On May 30, after deliberating for two hours, a jury found Wald not guilty. After the verdict was announced, Wald continued to show no remorse: “If the same thing happened again, I would do the same thing.”
On Aug. 1, 2010, Marissa Alexander, a 31-year-old mother of three, with a master’s degree and no criminal record, was working for a payroll software company in Jacksonville. She was estranged from her abusive husband, Rico Gray, and had a restraining order against him. Thinking he was not at home, she went to their former house to get some belongings. The two got into an argument. Alexander says that Gray threatened her and she feared for her life. Gray corroborates Alexander’s story: “I was in a rage. I called her a ***** and ***** and … I told her … if I can’t have you, nobody going to have you,” he said, in a deposition. When Alexander retreated into the bathroom, Gray tried to break the door. She ran into the garage, but couldn’t leave because it was locked. She came back, he said, with a registered gun, which she legally owned, and yelled at him to leave. Gray recalls, “I told her … I ain’t going nowhere, and so I started walking toward her … I was cursing and all that … and she shot in the air.” Even Gray understands why Alexander fired the warning shot: “If my kids wouldn’t have been there, I probably would have put my hand on her. Probably hit her. I got five baby mommas and I put my hands on every last one of them, except for one … I honestly think she just didn’t want me to put my hands on her anymore so she did what she feel like she have to do to make sure she wouldn’t get hurt, you know. You know, she did what she had to do.” And Gray admits Alexander was acting in self-defense, intending to scare and stop but not harm him: “The gun was never actually pointed at me … The fact is, you know … she never been violent toward me. I was always the one starting it.” Ultimately nobody was hurt. Nobody died. On May 12, 2012, it took a jury 12 minutes to find Alexander guilty of aggravated assault. She was sentenced to 20 years in prison.
Both defendants used the defense of “stand your ground,” a Florida law that holds that a person has “no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.” The man who shot his wife’s lover to death was successful and walks free. The woman who shot at a wall to scare an abusive husband failed and sits in jail.
The disparity between these outcomes should be shocking. But, sadly, it’s not, once you take into account the fact that Wald is white and Alexander is black. The “stand your ground” law is notorious for being applied in a biased and inconsistent way. The Tampa Bay Times found that defendants claiming “stand your ground” are more successful if the victim is black. Seventy-three percent of those who killed a black person faced no penalty. Only 59 percent of those who killed a white person got off. The Urban Institute determined that in “stand your ground” states, when white shooters kill black victims, 34 percent of the resulting homicides are deemed justifiable. When black shooters kill white victims only 3 percent of the deaths are ruled justifiable.
In light of these trends, the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights voted to investigate whether “stand your ground” laws are racially biased. Twenty-four states have “stand your ground” laws. The statutes, which are backed by the National Rifle Association and the conservative American Legislative Exchange Council, garnered national attention in February 2012 after George Zimmerman shot the unarmed African-American teenager Trayvon Martin to death, in Sanford, Fla. The police decided not to arrest Zimmerman, citing Florida’s “stand your ground” law. After this impunity sparked a public outcry, the police charged Zimmerman — now he’s sitting in court on trial for murder. Zimmerman waived his right to a “stand your ground” pretrial hearing, during which a judge could have dismissed the case under the statute. (Benjamin Crump, the attorney for Trayvon Martin’s family, believes Zimmerman did this to avoid taking the stand.) But it is likely that “stand your ground” will come up during the actual trial. If it does, we will have to see whether the defense is successful. Will Zimmerman end up a free man, like Wald? Or in jail, like Alexander?
Well now we know!
On March 10 of this year, around midnight, Ralph Wald, 70, of Brandon, Fla., got out of bed to get a drink and found Walter Conley, 32, having sex with his wife, Johanna Lynn Flores, 41, in the living room. He immediately went back into his bedroom, grabbed his gun and shot Conley three times. Conley died. Wald claims that he thought Conley was a stranger who had broken in and was raping his wife – despite the fact that Conley lived next door, had been his wife’s roommate and lover, and had his wife’s name tattooed onto his neck and arm. During a 911 call, when the dispatcher asked Wald if the man he shot was dead, Wald responded, “I hope so!” Wald never used the word “rape” in later reports to police, opting instead for “fornicate.” And while the fact that the two were lovers doesn’t imply consent, Flores has never accused Conley of rape — nor do prosecutors buy that that’s what Wald actually thought was happening. They say that Wald, who suffers from erectile dysfunction, killed Conley in a jealous rage. Flores admits that she and Conley had sex regularly before and after her marriage to Wald. While testifying, Wald explained that his erectile dysfunction and his wife’s reluctance to have sex with him made them compatible: “In fact, she would joke a lot with me … that we were a perfect couple … She didn’t want to do it, and I couldn’t do it.” On May 30, after deliberating for two hours, a jury found Wald not guilty. After the verdict was announced, Wald continued to show no remorse: “If the same thing happened again, I would do the same thing.”
On Aug. 1, 2010, Marissa Alexander, a 31-year-old mother of three, with a master’s degree and no criminal record, was working for a payroll software company in Jacksonville. She was estranged from her abusive husband, Rico Gray, and had a restraining order against him. Thinking he was not at home, she went to their former house to get some belongings. The two got into an argument. Alexander says that Gray threatened her and she feared for her life. Gray corroborates Alexander’s story: “I was in a rage. I called her a ***** and ***** and … I told her … if I can’t have you, nobody going to have you,” he said, in a deposition. When Alexander retreated into the bathroom, Gray tried to break the door. She ran into the garage, but couldn’t leave because it was locked. She came back, he said, with a registered gun, which she legally owned, and yelled at him to leave. Gray recalls, “I told her … I ain’t going nowhere, and so I started walking toward her … I was cursing and all that … and she shot in the air.” Even Gray understands why Alexander fired the warning shot: “If my kids wouldn’t have been there, I probably would have put my hand on her. Probably hit her. I got five baby mommas and I put my hands on every last one of them, except for one … I honestly think she just didn’t want me to put my hands on her anymore so she did what she feel like she have to do to make sure she wouldn’t get hurt, you know. You know, she did what she had to do.” And Gray admits Alexander was acting in self-defense, intending to scare and stop but not harm him: “The gun was never actually pointed at me … The fact is, you know … she never been violent toward me. I was always the one starting it.” Ultimately nobody was hurt. Nobody died. On May 12, 2012, it took a jury 12 minutes to find Alexander guilty of aggravated assault. She was sentenced to 20 years in prison.
Both defendants used the defense of “stand your ground,” a Florida law that holds that a person has “no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.” The man who shot his wife’s lover to death was successful and walks free. The woman who shot at a wall to scare an abusive husband failed and sits in jail.
The disparity between these outcomes should be shocking. But, sadly, it’s not, once you take into account the fact that Wald is white and Alexander is black. The “stand your ground” law is notorious for being applied in a biased and inconsistent way. The Tampa Bay Times found that defendants claiming “stand your ground” are more successful if the victim is black. Seventy-three percent of those who killed a black person faced no penalty. Only 59 percent of those who killed a white person got off. The Urban Institute determined that in “stand your ground” states, when white shooters kill black victims, 34 percent of the resulting homicides are deemed justifiable. When black shooters kill white victims only 3 percent of the deaths are ruled justifiable.
In light of these trends, the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights voted to investigate whether “stand your ground” laws are racially biased. Twenty-four states have “stand your ground” laws. The statutes, which are backed by the National Rifle Association and the conservative American Legislative Exchange Council, garnered national attention in February 2012 after George Zimmerman shot the unarmed African-American teenager Trayvon Martin to death, in Sanford, Fla. The police decided not to arrest Zimmerman, citing Florida’s “stand your ground” law. After this impunity sparked a public outcry, the police charged Zimmerman — now he’s sitting in court on trial for murder. Zimmerman waived his right to a “stand your ground” pretrial hearing, during which a judge could have dismissed the case under the statute. (Benjamin Crump, the attorney for Trayvon Martin’s family, believes Zimmerman did this to avoid taking the stand.) But it is likely that “stand your ground” will come up during the actual trial. If it does, we will have to see whether the defense is successful. Will Zimmerman end up a free man, like Wald? Or in jail, like Alexander?
Well now we know!
Her case is on appeal now.
Again she left the scene which makes the stand your ground defense null. If the gun was there where should could have pulled it out of a drawer she could have used it, but since she took herself out of the scene (by going to the garage and into her car) and then came back that is not stand your ground as the law reads.
The husband claims he lied to police to protect his wife. So as always you have 2 sides to the story.
The reason why she got 20 years is because it is a mandatory sentence. Which should change, but she was offered a plea deal of 3 yrs and turned it down and went to trial.
Again she left the scene which makes the stand your ground defense null. If the gun was there where should could have pulled it out of a drawer she could have used it, but since she took herself out of the scene (by going to the garage and into her car) and then came back that is not stand your ground as the law reads.
The husband claims he lied to police to protect his wife. So as always you have 2 sides to the story.
The reason why she got 20 years is because it is a mandatory sentence. Which should change, but she was offered a plea deal of 3 yrs and turned it down and went to trial.
Nope cause the husband told the police he would have hit her if she did not get the gun. He admitted it and there was a history of abuse preceding this event. By the way? Due to all this zimmerman stuff, her case has been reopened and being reviewed under her rights on the stand your ground law.
The woman went past the man (husband) into the garage, got a gun and then fired a warning shot. She left the scene so that is why stand your ground does not really fit in her case.
Stand your ground was not used in the trial but was used as a structure to consider in the jury instructions. Going by the jury instructions the verdict was right. But that does not mean it is okay.
Under the stand your ground law here in florida, if Im having a bad day and I run into you and we start talking say politics for example and I make you so mad that you start swearing, swinging your arms and acting crazy, calling me names, and acting all eratic, and you make me scared I can shoot you dead and holler stand my ground even tho you are unarmed and I am not.....Yup, but if I just fire a warning shot, I go to jail, so which one do you think im gonna do? You be a dead man!
So you got no problem with that law do ya?
Laws need changed here.
Under the stand your ground law here in florida, if Im having a bad day and I run into you and we start talking say politics for example and I make you so mad that you start swearing, swinging your arms and acting crazy, calling me names, and acting all eratic, and you make me scared I can shoot you dead and holler stand my ground even tho you are unarmed and I am not.....Yup, but if I just fire a warning shot, I go to jail, so which one do you think im gonna do? You be a dead man!
So you got no problem with that law do ya?
Laws need changed here.
In the legal eyes stand your ground law is a different defense then self defense.
Stand your ground IS about self defense.
Conviction=riots.
But remember Zimmerman didn't claim "Stand your ground", his was self defense.
Hawk...yes lets blame everything on everyone else. No personal responsibility.
But remember Zimmerman didn't claim "Stand your ground", his was self defense.
Hawk...yes lets blame everything on everyone else. No personal responsibility.
I guess I just see it differently. She was in a public place, and he was banging on her window, not holding a weapon (if the story we have is complete). Me, I would have driven away. I am not against your rights to have guns, I just wish people would use them as last resort, not first. It is stories like this that make me glad I don't live in a gun culture I guess.
Hearing what you say you would have done makes me not worry about YOU having a gun. And I know there are many like you. But based on just what I am reading, I feel her reaction was way to strong, and now someone is dead for losing his temper. Same with Treyvon...he is dead because of an overreaction. If no one had had a gun, I'm sure the story would have ended differently. And if Zimmerman hadn't had a gun, perhaps he would have left what he considered a "suspicious person" in the hands of the authorities and not followed him.
Again, I am not anti gun, but sometimes I wonder if things would be different if you didn't all live in such a strong gun culture, know what I mean? I mean, people are actually dead in both situations. No coming back from that cause someone made a bad judgement call.
Hearing what you say you would have done makes me not worry about YOU having a gun. And I know there are many like you. But based on just what I am reading, I feel her reaction was way to strong, and now someone is dead for losing his temper. Same with Treyvon...he is dead because of an overreaction. If no one had had a gun, I'm sure the story would have ended differently. And if Zimmerman hadn't had a gun, perhaps he would have left what he considered a "suspicious person" in the hands of the authorities and not followed him.
Again, I am not anti gun, but sometimes I wonder if things would be different if you didn't all live in such a strong gun culture, know what I mean? I mean, people are actually dead in both situations. No coming back from that cause someone made a bad judgement call.
I've got no problem with this IF the woman's story holds up. If the guy was trying to get at her, what is she supposed to do? Open up a round of questioning before she acts?
Where I come from, gas stations get robbed. I would have waiting in my car. I would not have grabbed the smoke wagon unless the person was acting in an aggressive manner.
Where I come from, gas stations get robbed. I would have waiting in my car. I would not have grabbed the smoke wagon unless the person was acting in an aggressive manner.
If he had a weapon, or it had been an isolated area, I could understand. I too have trouble with this case. People have tempers and act stupid, we can't just go around shooting each other. An example of something that actually happened to me.
I was driving through Ft. McMurray, Alberta. I was there on business actually and was there a few days. I had flown in and was driving a new, red shiny little rental car (honda I think, very cute). Middle of a Saturday afternoon I am driving down a main road. A man is crossing, so of course I stop to allow him to cross. He stopped and stood still right in front of my car, and before I knew it, another guy came out of no where and is hauling on my drivers door (fortunately I always drive doors locked). There were no weapons, but still, it was scary. I leaned on the horn to attract attention, they both ran. When the police got there, the cop (a true good old boy) said to me "if the guy was standing right in front of you, why didn't you hit the gas". I can honestly say that never occured to me. I was scared, but it's not like someone had a weapon out. It turns out these two had been involved in a number of car jackings. This was their little modus operandi, and they didn't hurt people, just pulled em out of the car, and stole the car. Now, to me, that car would not have been worth me shooting someone (had I had a gun). But under the laws in Florida, I could have and been justified. I am plain and simple not comfortable with that law. I think shooting someone SHOULD be a very big deal, and only done with no other options to save yourself or your loved one. It seems too easy under these laws, and there is no penalty.
I understand why the jury did not convict Zimmerman. And I understand why this women will probably not be convicted. The law is one thing, but I have to ask...does the fact that they were within the boundaries of the law make it right? Human beings are dead, end of story. Sorry, had to get that out.
I was driving through Ft. McMurray, Alberta. I was there on business actually and was there a few days. I had flown in and was driving a new, red shiny little rental car (honda I think, very cute). Middle of a Saturday afternoon I am driving down a main road. A man is crossing, so of course I stop to allow him to cross. He stopped and stood still right in front of my car, and before I knew it, another guy came out of no where and is hauling on my drivers door (fortunately I always drive doors locked). There were no weapons, but still, it was scary. I leaned on the horn to attract attention, they both ran. When the police got there, the cop (a true good old boy) said to me "if the guy was standing right in front of you, why didn't you hit the gas". I can honestly say that never occured to me. I was scared, but it's not like someone had a weapon out. It turns out these two had been involved in a number of car jackings. This was their little modus operandi, and they didn't hurt people, just pulled em out of the car, and stole the car. Now, to me, that car would not have been worth me shooting someone (had I had a gun). But under the laws in Florida, I could have and been justified. I am plain and simple not comfortable with that law. I think shooting someone SHOULD be a very big deal, and only done with no other options to save yourself or your loved one. It seems too easy under these laws, and there is no penalty.
I understand why the jury did not convict Zimmerman. And I understand why this women will probably not be convicted. The law is one thing, but I have to ask...does the fact that they were within the boundaries of the law make it right? Human beings are dead, end of story. Sorry, had to get that out.
"Wasn't it "attempt" to exchange information?" Talk about semantics!! Try/attempt - don't they mean, basically, the same thing? In either case, an effort was made ..... vs shot through a window or shot through an empty space where a window used to be.... Hmmmmm
I have been in a wreck and I met the other driver on the side of the road, after we'd both pulled over; nobody threw punches, nobody pulled a gun...
In my part of the country, a gas station that's open for business is, typically, considered a "safe place" because there are usually people around, lights on, etc so if anything goes wrong, you can yell, scream, honk your horn, run into the station - any number of things to get attention that might stop someone from harming you. Everything we read about unmarked police cars wanting to pull us over, says we should go to a "safe place" aka lighted area (such as an open gas station) before we pull over, and while we're driving there, we should be on the phone with the police.
This accident did not happen at the gas station; supposedly, they both drove to the station to exchange information, and that's what the young man was trying/attempting to do.
Bottom line is that a 22 yr old man is now dead and a 23 yr old woman will spend the rest of her life knowing that she killed someone........ one life gone, another changed forever and might she realize at some point that there were other options, just as there were in the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin incidence?
Again, only 2 people know the entire truth of what happened and only one of them lives to give their side.
I have been in a wreck and I met the other driver on the side of the road, after we'd both pulled over; nobody threw punches, nobody pulled a gun...
In my part of the country, a gas station that's open for business is, typically, considered a "safe place" because there are usually people around, lights on, etc so if anything goes wrong, you can yell, scream, honk your horn, run into the station - any number of things to get attention that might stop someone from harming you. Everything we read about unmarked police cars wanting to pull us over, says we should go to a "safe place" aka lighted area (such as an open gas station) before we pull over, and while we're driving there, we should be on the phone with the police.
This accident did not happen at the gas station; supposedly, they both drove to the station to exchange information, and that's what the young man was trying/attempting to do.
Bottom line is that a 22 yr old man is now dead and a 23 yr old woman will spend the rest of her life knowing that she killed someone........ one life gone, another changed forever and might she realize at some point that there were other options, just as there were in the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin incidence?
Again, only 2 people know the entire truth of what happened and only one of them lives to give their side.
"As far as we know, all he did was try to exchange information. Don't people normally do that while waiting for police? "
Wasn't it "attempt" to exchange information? I've never been in a wreck but for me, I'd wait until the cops got there unless the person met me mutually, in a safe spot. That's just me though.
Wasn't it "attempt" to exchange information? I've never been in a wreck but for me, I'd wait until the cops got there unless the person met me mutually, in a safe spot. That's just me though.
As far as we know, all he did was try to exchange information. Don't people normally do that while waiting for police?
Why couldn't this patient young man wait for the police to show up?
"What would you call the space were the window used to be?" An empty space; broken window.
Call it semantics if you want to, but it clearly says she shot through the window, not the empty space. She could not have shot "through" the window, if there had been no window there. The article didn't say that the victim (dead person) had any weapons; what would he have broken the window with? If he's used his bare hands, they'd be cut/bruised..... nothing about that in the article.
And what about the witness 15' away who heard nothing? If the victim was actually yelling at her, banging on her car and had broken the window, surely he would have heard the commotion? I notice a lot less "noisy" things going on while I'm pumping gas...
None of this negates the fact that they were in public, with other people around and she could have done any number of things to draw attention to the situation; not to mention that she probably had a cell phone, with which she could have called the police. They'd already had the minor accident and police should already have been called and dispatched.
"Just think if instead of 'stand your ground' laws our efforts were towards showing compassion towards others." Amen ----------
I do think there's a need for Stand Your Ground, but I think it needs to be redefined, or maybe clarified.
Death HAS to be imminent, in order for Stand Your Ground to hold up.... as long as there's one other option, to me, it's not valid. This woman had several other options.
Call it semantics if you want to, but it clearly says she shot through the window, not the empty space. She could not have shot "through" the window, if there had been no window there. The article didn't say that the victim (dead person) had any weapons; what would he have broken the window with? If he's used his bare hands, they'd be cut/bruised..... nothing about that in the article.
And what about the witness 15' away who heard nothing? If the victim was actually yelling at her, banging on her car and had broken the window, surely he would have heard the commotion? I notice a lot less "noisy" things going on while I'm pumping gas...
None of this negates the fact that they were in public, with other people around and she could have done any number of things to draw attention to the situation; not to mention that she probably had a cell phone, with which she could have called the police. They'd already had the minor accident and police should already have been called and dispatched.
"Just think if instead of 'stand your ground' laws our efforts were towards showing compassion towards others." Amen ----------
I do think there's a need for Stand Your Ground, but I think it needs to be redefined, or maybe clarified.
Death HAS to be imminent, in order for Stand Your Ground to hold up.... as long as there's one other option, to me, it's not valid. This woman had several other options.
Our society is bonkers.
ALEC and the Koch brothers are certainly causing a lot of blood shed.
Just think if instead of 'stand your ground' laws our efforts were towards showing compassion towards others.
ALEC and the Koch brothers are certainly causing a lot of blood shed.
Just think if instead of 'stand your ground' laws our efforts were towards showing compassion towards others.
Semantics.... drivers side window. What would you call the space were the window used to be?
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