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Is Pakistan Our Ally and if Not How Should We Address the Expansion of the War?
Clearly the Taliban have extended their presense into Pakistan:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/world/asia/05baluch.html?ref=todayspaper
The question is whether they are just not effective in stopping the Taliban,
might look the other way or because of the fact that they
have not closed the madrasas might in some ways support them.
However because the Taliban have regrouped in Pakistan
there is a need to stop them but because the country
has nuclear weapons if there were a change in the government
there for the worse the results could be dangerous. What would people believe to be a logical approach?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/world/asia/05baluch.html?ref=todayspaper
The question is whether they are just not effective in stopping the Taliban,
might look the other way or because of the fact that they
have not closed the madrasas might in some ways support them.
However because the Taliban have regrouped in Pakistan
there is a need to stop them but because the country
has nuclear weapons if there were a change in the government
there for the worse the results could be dangerous. What would people believe to be a logical approach?
Oh, RJ...Well put !
The point that "others" miss is that Pakistan is NOT seen as a tragedy, no more than Afghanistan or Iraq are seen as tragedies. So, how would THIS draw us, as Americans, together? No, it would be a further cause of division because SOME would be FOR getting involved and SOME would be against it.
It goes back to ILADVOCATE'S original premise....is Pakistan our ally or not. Very good question. I wouldn't sleep there with both eyes shut, but then again...I may be a titch paranoid.
The point that "others" miss is that Pakistan is NOT seen as a tragedy, no more than Afghanistan or Iraq are seen as tragedies. So, how would THIS draw us, as Americans, together? No, it would be a further cause of division because SOME would be FOR getting involved and SOME would be against it.
It goes back to ILADVOCATE'S original premise....is Pakistan our ally or not. Very good question. I wouldn't sleep there with both eyes shut, but then again...I may be a titch paranoid.
I agree with every single thing you wrote here RJ ...this last 12 months we have been severly brought down mostly by the powers that be with their outspoken negativity about this country , but I see a glimmer that the People will not take it and the elections this year will show the way we feel,this is MY opinion ....
Yes, we did fly our Flag after 9/11 for a while. It stood up and we stood with it. Today, it is not the same. Flags stopped flying on all the autos and houses and every corner they could be put.
We had a local WWII Veteran that put up the Flag in a community to be told it could not be. So many people fought for him and it became known. Finally, he won. A fireman had a Flag on his locker. He was told to remove it, it was not allowed. The fireman refused and his immediate supervisor also refused to make him. I believe they were suspended for a while for that stand. These are not the only incidences. Normally, we don't hear these things on National News, it remains local. I have watched Americans burn our Flag in protest. They should have been jailed, but it was, "my" Right, that stood instead.
What I said about the new tactics of training for troops with the gun that does not kill, that was true, not something from some contested news. It never made the news as far as I know. We pick up military stations and my husband watches them. He is very proud to have served his Country as a Marine. He will always be a Marine. The American Flag and Marine Flag hang in front of our home, unless taken down to protect them from weather damage. The Flags are folded in Military Style when they need to be replaced.
We have hit tragedy. Our Nation is coming apart at the seams. When the U.S. is no longer trusted by those that have yearned to be one of us, to know what we take for granted, tragedy has come. Greed, wealth and power has taken over Washington. Our defense should be one of the most important obligations to this Nation. If we can't defend ourselves, how long will we be Free? If we roll out the red carpet treatment for enemies, and persecute our troops, who are we defending, the enemy or the U.S.A.?
Why are Veterans, mothers, grandparents, fathers, the average Americans traveling and spending a large part of their lives all over the Country, to take a stand against our government?
Being married to a Marine, a son that served in the Army, father a Veteran, as well as a history of Veterans in my family, I have been brought aware of things I would not have viewed before. My son and husband watch war movies and they know the history of each of them. They explain the history as I watch them. I hated war movies, until I finally realized, yes it is a movie, but yes it is true. Actual footage is always pointed out to me. We really have no idea what was given to make this Nation Free. When you know what you see is real, when you look at a man blown up and pieces of his body is shredded in the air, when you see two men in a fox hole, freezing, and one has his face shot off and see the other look at his brother in arms, yes, it starts a reality of what was given for you and me and all of us that enjoy this Country. It gives us a new respect to what the word Freedom involves.
We should always stand together as Americans. Freedom does not come without cost, and without cost the Freedom will not remain. We need to become serious about what is happening, spending time to know the truth. We well know people will lie, politicians will lie, we can't take what they say at face value. Indians used to say a liar spoke with a "forked tongue", I always thought they meant they spoke one way, but it meant the opposite. Now, pictures of the Devil with his pitchfork, kinda describes it much better. Those people make decisions that affect our lives, but it does not change theirs. Their positions may change, but they have the money and the life style they want. We on the other hand, do not.
We had a local WWII Veteran that put up the Flag in a community to be told it could not be. So many people fought for him and it became known. Finally, he won. A fireman had a Flag on his locker. He was told to remove it, it was not allowed. The fireman refused and his immediate supervisor also refused to make him. I believe they were suspended for a while for that stand. These are not the only incidences. Normally, we don't hear these things on National News, it remains local. I have watched Americans burn our Flag in protest. They should have been jailed, but it was, "my" Right, that stood instead.
What I said about the new tactics of training for troops with the gun that does not kill, that was true, not something from some contested news. It never made the news as far as I know. We pick up military stations and my husband watches them. He is very proud to have served his Country as a Marine. He will always be a Marine. The American Flag and Marine Flag hang in front of our home, unless taken down to protect them from weather damage. The Flags are folded in Military Style when they need to be replaced.
We have hit tragedy. Our Nation is coming apart at the seams. When the U.S. is no longer trusted by those that have yearned to be one of us, to know what we take for granted, tragedy has come. Greed, wealth and power has taken over Washington. Our defense should be one of the most important obligations to this Nation. If we can't defend ourselves, how long will we be Free? If we roll out the red carpet treatment for enemies, and persecute our troops, who are we defending, the enemy or the U.S.A.?
Why are Veterans, mothers, grandparents, fathers, the average Americans traveling and spending a large part of their lives all over the Country, to take a stand against our government?
Being married to a Marine, a son that served in the Army, father a Veteran, as well as a history of Veterans in my family, I have been brought aware of things I would not have viewed before. My son and husband watch war movies and they know the history of each of them. They explain the history as I watch them. I hated war movies, until I finally realized, yes it is a movie, but yes it is true. Actual footage is always pointed out to me. We really have no idea what was given to make this Nation Free. When you know what you see is real, when you look at a man blown up and pieces of his body is shredded in the air, when you see two men in a fox hole, freezing, and one has his face shot off and see the other look at his brother in arms, yes, it starts a reality of what was given for you and me and all of us that enjoy this Country. It gives us a new respect to what the word Freedom involves.
We should always stand together as Americans. Freedom does not come without cost, and without cost the Freedom will not remain. We need to become serious about what is happening, spending time to know the truth. We well know people will lie, politicians will lie, we can't take what they say at face value. Indians used to say a liar spoke with a "forked tongue", I always thought they meant they spoke one way, but it meant the opposite. Now, pictures of the Devil with his pitchfork, kinda describes it much better. Those people make decisions that affect our lives, but it does not change theirs. Their positions may change, but they have the money and the life style they want. We on the other hand, do not.
It's very sad that you feel this way about our country. If you look back to after 9/11. Our flag was displayed on almost every house and we stood united. One thing Washington and the American people always come together on is defending this great country. I feel our country is down right now, but we are far from beaten. Unfortunately we are always brought together by tragedy, but we do come together.
The U.S. is in a bad position as far as the world sees us. When foreign leaders say we are "no longer the Super Power, we are weak. We can no longer be the one they could call on for help." It affects our entire image to the world.
To the World, America was known as a Christian Nation. A Nation Under God. Founded on Individual Rights and Imbedded with Morals. We were a Nation as a Whole, not divided. We believed in the value of a Human Life. How people should be protected that were unable to protect themselves. The Nation stood Strong, because we were United in those Foundations. People of this Nation would fight to the death to protect the Nation, without question. The Leader of Our Country represents what kind of a Nation we are, both in strenght and weakness, here and to them. The organization of our Nation was set up, to overcome those that abused power and balance the responsibilities of each member.
Now they look at us. Everything has changed. They see and hear everything that goes on. Every single thing that this Nation was built on has almost totally been destroyed. Greed, deceit, the destruction of the God that we believed stood Strong and Made us this Great Nation. Our Flag is burned, and Americans are doing it. Our citizens are being punished for displaying the Flag which is the picture of what it took to be what we are. We are now looked upon as broken. Our enemy is allowed in and we stand before the entire World after Americans are slaughtered, afraid of the enemy. We have lost our spine. United we stand, Divided we Fall. We have become over run with non Americans, which instead of sending them back and protecting our boarders, we take care of them and say they are good citizens, not the law breakers that they are. They suck us dry, and we do nothing. We flip over our planes, yet the enemy can walk over the boarders. We send our troops out to battle and punish them for it. The enemy says we have hit them, while they blow up and send pictures of tortured men and women we sent to battle. We do not monitor our politicians, they do what they want. We have let ourself become debtors-overwhelming to others.
"We" have divided into "me". No matter what the cost of the Nation...do not step on toes. Groups have become dictators. The Foundation is broken. Yes, we are liars. One Nation Under God, is not true. We have become gods. Gods of individual groups. Morality does not exist. We kill our children, born or not, physically, mentally and morally. Our leaders have become more concerned with cost over well being. Say what they want. Some of us were taught the history of the Nation. Some remember the history of Horrors in the past. Some fear our possessive greed of power in leadership.
Yes, If we lived on the outside, and had not experienced freedom, lived for the hope of it and looked toward the Great Nation of God, the Strongest, Real Hope, then see the new picture of what we are today, there is no reason to believe us or trust us.
To the World, America was known as a Christian Nation. A Nation Under God. Founded on Individual Rights and Imbedded with Morals. We were a Nation as a Whole, not divided. We believed in the value of a Human Life. How people should be protected that were unable to protect themselves. The Nation stood Strong, because we were United in those Foundations. People of this Nation would fight to the death to protect the Nation, without question. The Leader of Our Country represents what kind of a Nation we are, both in strenght and weakness, here and to them. The organization of our Nation was set up, to overcome those that abused power and balance the responsibilities of each member.
Now they look at us. Everything has changed. They see and hear everything that goes on. Every single thing that this Nation was built on has almost totally been destroyed. Greed, deceit, the destruction of the God that we believed stood Strong and Made us this Great Nation. Our Flag is burned, and Americans are doing it. Our citizens are being punished for displaying the Flag which is the picture of what it took to be what we are. We are now looked upon as broken. Our enemy is allowed in and we stand before the entire World after Americans are slaughtered, afraid of the enemy. We have lost our spine. United we stand, Divided we Fall. We have become over run with non Americans, which instead of sending them back and protecting our boarders, we take care of them and say they are good citizens, not the law breakers that they are. They suck us dry, and we do nothing. We flip over our planes, yet the enemy can walk over the boarders. We send our troops out to battle and punish them for it. The enemy says we have hit them, while they blow up and send pictures of tortured men and women we sent to battle. We do not monitor our politicians, they do what they want. We have let ourself become debtors-overwhelming to others.
"We" have divided into "me". No matter what the cost of the Nation...do not step on toes. Groups have become dictators. The Foundation is broken. Yes, we are liars. One Nation Under God, is not true. We have become gods. Gods of individual groups. Morality does not exist. We kill our children, born or not, physically, mentally and morally. Our leaders have become more concerned with cost over well being. Say what they want. Some of us were taught the history of the Nation. Some remember the history of Horrors in the past. Some fear our possessive greed of power in leadership.
Yes, If we lived on the outside, and had not experienced freedom, lived for the hope of it and looked toward the Great Nation of God, the Strongest, Real Hope, then see the new picture of what we are today, there is no reason to believe us or trust us.
What I can see happening is that Houdini bin Laden will disappear again and somehow so will all traces of the Taliban....and nuclear weapons? Prove it! Then, all of a sudden, we're (the USA) "the bad guys" again. Whoever is president when/if we would decide to get involved is TOAST because "I/WE were always against it." That's what would be said once the "conflict" became unpopular.
Oh, and I do not think for one minute that Pakistan is on our side. "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."
Oh, and I do not think for one minute that Pakistan is on our side. "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."
I think the people are afraid that we will try to take them over and I think they believe we have created the illusion of terrorists in their country, and think we are in collusion with a known group of terrorists there, not the talaban but another group. While researching information on the topic you posted I ran across a website about pakistan by people from there. Evidently from what I read by many posters was that they feel, everyone needs to be gotten out of pakistan except the pakistani themselfs. They feel we are there to steal their nuclear weapons and use the terrorism thing to get what their uranium and what we want from them. They hate their leader and are saying many of the same things about their government that we here are saying. I found it fascinating. In a nutshell, they do not believe us or trust us. I think we need to exit the country and rethink it.
Since its believed that Bin Laden himself as well as other high ranking members of the Taliban are potentially in Pakistan clearly the Taliban have relocated there and there is reason to take action. The more important imo is whether we should keep trying to fool ourselves that Pakistan is in any way on the side of the United States. They have done everything they can to shelter the Taliban and if technically the government of Pakistan supports the United States the militias basically run the country. If the war needs to be expanded it must be selective and at all times we should recognize when a country is actively sheltering or supporting the Taliban. So far the Taliban have used what were basically low level weapons that if they were not fanatics and willing to die could have easily been taken out of their hands. If they were able to obtain nuclear weapons then the results could be devastating. They are one group that cannot be negotiated with. The question how exactly to stop them strategically without costing American lives and I don't see that being done.
I think that the US needs to take over Pakistan! JK!!!! But, you bring up a valid point, that there are nuclear weapons in Pakistan that should not/CANNOT get into the wrong hands. We'll just let someone else handle this one. I'm sure the "green peacers" will be happy.
How's this one-liner....."Make love, not war." Yeah, baby. Peace is ALWAYS the solution...to everything.
How's this one-liner....."Make love, not war." Yeah, baby. Peace is ALWAYS the solution...to everything.
I heard today that UK has launched a big offensive against the taliban .
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