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'Ground Zero mosque' debate
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/aug/20/fact-checking-ground-zero-mosque-debate/
The facts are out. Maybe they will put a lot of things to rest for all of us.
Fact-checking the 'Ground Zero mosque' debate
By Robert Farley
Published on Friday, August 20th, 2010 at 7:22 p.m.
Related rulings:
"This is not a mosque. It's a cultural center that has a prayer area."
Al Hunt, Sunday, August 22nd, 2010.
Ruling: False | Details
"The Republicans have 2 percent of the Muslim vote.''
Tamara Holder, Wednesday, August 18th, 2010.
Ruling: Mostly True | Details
"There’s a mosque inside of the Pentagon."
Kendrick Meek, Sunday, August 15th, 2010.
Ruling: False | Details
A New York imam wants to "have a mosque at Ground Zero.''
Rick Lazio, Tuesday, August 17th, 2010.
Ruling: Barely True | Details
"U.S. taxpayers are being forced to fund Feisal Abdul Rauf’s trip to the Middle East."
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Tuesday, August 10th, 2010.
Ruling: True | Details
Share this article:
Two people debate outside the proposed site of the mosque and cultural center, which is blocks from Ground Zero in New York City.
In the highly-charged and sweeping national debate over a proposed mosque near Ground Zero, facts are often muddled at the expense of emotional appeals.
With everyone from Sarah Palin to President Barack Obama weighing in on religious freedom, tolerance and sensitivity, PolitiFact decided to add some fact-checking to the discourse.
Let's start with the phrase "Ground Zero Mosque,” a media-created shorthand used by a number of political figures discussing the propriety of the mosque's proposed location.
Rick Scott, a Republican candidate for Florida governor, used it in a recent campaign ad, stating: "Mr. President, Ground Zero is the wrong place for a mosque.”
But the proposed mosque is not at or on Ground Zero. It does not directly abut it or overlook it.
It is near Ground Zero.
How near? Just over two blocks. Two long blocks, in fact. The Washington Post noted that the location is "roughly half a dozen normal lower Manhattan blocks from the site of the North Tower, the nearer of the two destroyed in the attacks.”
"You can't see Ground Zero from our current building and on completion of our planned building some years from now, there won't be any views of the Ground Zero memorial from the building,” said Sharif El-Gamal, owner of the building and developer of the Park51 project, in an interview with an Islamic news site.
But it is close enough to have symbolic import, a fact that was not lost on those trying to build there.
"We want to provide a counter momentum against extremism,” said Daisy Khan, wife of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who would lead the mosque, in a Newsweek interview. "We want peace, and we want it where it matters most. This is where it matters most.”
While we're considering the term "Ground Zero Mosque,” we also wondered whether it was proper to call the project a mosque. A mosque is, in fact, planned there, but it's part of a plan for a much larger, $100 million cultural center that includes a swimming pool, gym and basketball court, a 500-seat auditorium, a restaurant and culinary school, a library and art studios. Organizers say the center would be open to all New Yorkers, regardless of faith, and would promote cultural diversity. But the center would be geared toward "engaging New York's many and diverse Muslim communities and promoting empowerment and compassion for all.”
According to Gamal, the mosque would be run separately from the rest of the facilities. And, he said, it would not tolerate "any kind of illegal or unAmerican activity and rhetoric.” Imam Rauf has been leading prayer services in one of the buildings since 2009.
PolitiFact rated a claim that the mosque would be "at” Ground Zero” Barely True. This week, the Associated Press issued a memo advising staff to avoid the phrase "Ground Zero mosque.”
We also looked into a claim from Florida Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, the ranking member on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, and New York Rep. Peter King, who took aim at the State Department for footing the bill for foreign travel by Imam Rauf.
"It is unacceptable that U.S. taxpayers are being forced to fund Feisal Abdul Rauf's trip to the Middle East,” the lawmakers wrote. "Abdul Rauf has cast blame for 9/11 on the U.S., and even refuses to call Hamas what it is — a Foreign Terrorist Organization. This radical is a terrible choice to be one of the faces of our country overseas. The U.S. should be using public diplomacy programs to combat extremism, not endorse it. The State Department's selection of Feisal Abdul Rauf to represent the American people through this program further calls into question the Administration's policy and funding priorities.”
At an Aug. 10 State Department briefing, Assistant Secretary of State for Public Affairs P.J. Crowley confirmed that "Imam Feisal will be traveling to Qatar, Bahrain, and the UAE on a U.S. government-sponsored trip to the Middle East.” "He will discuss Muslim life in America and religious tolerance,” Crowley said.
The State Department said it will pay Rauf $3,000 for a trip costing the government $16,000, and so we rated Ros-Lehtinen's claim True.
Crowley noted that this will be Rauf's fourth trip overseas on the government's dime, including two under the administration of former President George W. Bush and one earlier this year.
"You know, his work on tolerance and religious diversity is well-known and he brings a moderate perspective to foreign audiences on what it's like to be a practicing Muslim in the United States,” Crowley said.
Ros-Lehtinen's comments raised another highly controversial issue in this mosque debate — whether it is fair to call Rauf a "radical” who endorses extremism, or whether Crowley was more accurate calling him a "moderate.” We felt that was too subjective an issue to rate on the Truth-O-Meter, but we can add a few facts to the discussion.
Last year, the New York Times reported that those who have worked with Rauf described him "as having built a career preaching tolerance and interfaith understanding.”
In an interview with the New York Daily News in May, Rauf said, "We condemn terrorists. We recognize it exists in our faith, but we are committed to eradicate it.”
"We want to rebuild this community,” Rauf said. "This is about moderate Muslims who intend to be and want to be part of the solution.”
On Fox News recently, Abe Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League — which opposes construction of the mosque so close to Ground Zero — said that "as far as we're concerned, he is what he is, a moderate imam. He certainly has spoken out against some of the extremism in the Islamic world.”
However, many are troubled by comments like the one Rauf made in a 60 Minutes interview several weeks after the 911 attacks.
"I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened,” Rauf said then. "But the United States' policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.”
We concluded that whether Rauf is a moderate or an extremist is largely a matter of opinion and perspective rather than objective fact.
But we were able to cite some objective facts when we looked into a claim from Democratic U.S. Senate candidate Kendrick Meek, who in a televised debate repeated a popular misnomer in the mosque debate: that there is a mosque inside the Pentagon. There's an interfaith chapel — often used by Muslims for daily prayer service, as well as by other religions — but no mosque. We rated Meek's statement False.
The facts are out. Maybe they will put a lot of things to rest for all of us.
Fact-checking the 'Ground Zero mosque' debate
By Robert Farley
Published on Friday, August 20th, 2010 at 7:22 p.m.
Related rulings:
"This is not a mosque. It's a cultural center that has a prayer area."
Al Hunt, Sunday, August 22nd, 2010.
Ruling: False | Details
"The Republicans have 2 percent of the Muslim vote.''
Tamara Holder, Wednesday, August 18th, 2010.
Ruling: Mostly True | Details
"There’s a mosque inside of the Pentagon."
Kendrick Meek, Sunday, August 15th, 2010.
Ruling: False | Details
A New York imam wants to "have a mosque at Ground Zero.''
Rick Lazio, Tuesday, August 17th, 2010.
Ruling: Barely True | Details
"U.S. taxpayers are being forced to fund Feisal Abdul Rauf’s trip to the Middle East."
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Tuesday, August 10th, 2010.
Ruling: True | Details
Share this article:
Two people debate outside the proposed site of the mosque and cultural center, which is blocks from Ground Zero in New York City.
In the highly-charged and sweeping national debate over a proposed mosque near Ground Zero, facts are often muddled at the expense of emotional appeals.
With everyone from Sarah Palin to President Barack Obama weighing in on religious freedom, tolerance and sensitivity, PolitiFact decided to add some fact-checking to the discourse.
Let's start with the phrase "Ground Zero Mosque,” a media-created shorthand used by a number of political figures discussing the propriety of the mosque's proposed location.
Rick Scott, a Republican candidate for Florida governor, used it in a recent campaign ad, stating: "Mr. President, Ground Zero is the wrong place for a mosque.”
But the proposed mosque is not at or on Ground Zero. It does not directly abut it or overlook it.
It is near Ground Zero.
How near? Just over two blocks. Two long blocks, in fact. The Washington Post noted that the location is "roughly half a dozen normal lower Manhattan blocks from the site of the North Tower, the nearer of the two destroyed in the attacks.”
"You can't see Ground Zero from our current building and on completion of our planned building some years from now, there won't be any views of the Ground Zero memorial from the building,” said Sharif El-Gamal, owner of the building and developer of the Park51 project, in an interview with an Islamic news site.
But it is close enough to have symbolic import, a fact that was not lost on those trying to build there.
"We want to provide a counter momentum against extremism,” said Daisy Khan, wife of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who would lead the mosque, in a Newsweek interview. "We want peace, and we want it where it matters most. This is where it matters most.”
While we're considering the term "Ground Zero Mosque,” we also wondered whether it was proper to call the project a mosque. A mosque is, in fact, planned there, but it's part of a plan for a much larger, $100 million cultural center that includes a swimming pool, gym and basketball court, a 500-seat auditorium, a restaurant and culinary school, a library and art studios. Organizers say the center would be open to all New Yorkers, regardless of faith, and would promote cultural diversity. But the center would be geared toward "engaging New York's many and diverse Muslim communities and promoting empowerment and compassion for all.”
According to Gamal, the mosque would be run separately from the rest of the facilities. And, he said, it would not tolerate "any kind of illegal or unAmerican activity and rhetoric.” Imam Rauf has been leading prayer services in one of the buildings since 2009.
PolitiFact rated a claim that the mosque would be "at” Ground Zero” Barely True. This week, the Associated Press issued a memo advising staff to avoid the phrase "Ground Zero mosque.”
We also looked into a claim from Florida Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, the ranking member on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, and New York Rep. Peter King, who took aim at the State Department for footing the bill for foreign travel by Imam Rauf.
"It is unacceptable that U.S. taxpayers are being forced to fund Feisal Abdul Rauf's trip to the Middle East,” the lawmakers wrote. "Abdul Rauf has cast blame for 9/11 on the U.S., and even refuses to call Hamas what it is — a Foreign Terrorist Organization. This radical is a terrible choice to be one of the faces of our country overseas. The U.S. should be using public diplomacy programs to combat extremism, not endorse it. The State Department's selection of Feisal Abdul Rauf to represent the American people through this program further calls into question the Administration's policy and funding priorities.”
At an Aug. 10 State Department briefing, Assistant Secretary of State for Public Affairs P.J. Crowley confirmed that "Imam Feisal will be traveling to Qatar, Bahrain, and the UAE on a U.S. government-sponsored trip to the Middle East.” "He will discuss Muslim life in America and religious tolerance,” Crowley said.
The State Department said it will pay Rauf $3,000 for a trip costing the government $16,000, and so we rated Ros-Lehtinen's claim True.
Crowley noted that this will be Rauf's fourth trip overseas on the government's dime, including two under the administration of former President George W. Bush and one earlier this year.
"You know, his work on tolerance and religious diversity is well-known and he brings a moderate perspective to foreign audiences on what it's like to be a practicing Muslim in the United States,” Crowley said.
Ros-Lehtinen's comments raised another highly controversial issue in this mosque debate — whether it is fair to call Rauf a "radical” who endorses extremism, or whether Crowley was more accurate calling him a "moderate.” We felt that was too subjective an issue to rate on the Truth-O-Meter, but we can add a few facts to the discussion.
Last year, the New York Times reported that those who have worked with Rauf described him "as having built a career preaching tolerance and interfaith understanding.”
In an interview with the New York Daily News in May, Rauf said, "We condemn terrorists. We recognize it exists in our faith, but we are committed to eradicate it.”
"We want to rebuild this community,” Rauf said. "This is about moderate Muslims who intend to be and want to be part of the solution.”
On Fox News recently, Abe Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League — which opposes construction of the mosque so close to Ground Zero — said that "as far as we're concerned, he is what he is, a moderate imam. He certainly has spoken out against some of the extremism in the Islamic world.”
However, many are troubled by comments like the one Rauf made in a 60 Minutes interview several weeks after the 911 attacks.
"I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened,” Rauf said then. "But the United States' policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.”
We concluded that whether Rauf is a moderate or an extremist is largely a matter of opinion and perspective rather than objective fact.
But we were able to cite some objective facts when we looked into a claim from Democratic U.S. Senate candidate Kendrick Meek, who in a televised debate repeated a popular misnomer in the mosque debate: that there is a mosque inside the Pentagon. There's an interfaith chapel — often used by Muslims for daily prayer service, as well as by other religions — but no mosque. We rated Meek's statement False.
Your right, not all Jewish women cover their heads. As mentioned, I was referring to Orthodox Jews. As with any religion, some Jewish are moderate, others are Orthodox. No difference.
Yes, I am aware of the arrests here. Intelligence sources say we are a large target (particularly where I live) because of our oil. We are a major supplier to you folks, and I live in the city where most of the oil offices are. The province I live in has a large amount of oil sands. So, we are supposedly a target. So far everything has been thwarted though, and hopefully that continues to be the case.
So far our so called honor killings have been appropriately prosecuted and treated as any other murder. I hope and do beleive it will stay that way. That is a barbariac and archaic practice that has no place in our society. Fortunately most of our Muslims agree.
The simple fact is you cannnot tell who is a Muslim most of the time, let alone who is radical. I believe something like 3/4 of US Muslims are black. The majority of the radicals come from Arabic countries, although certainly not all. But then again, all Arabic individuals are not Muslim. I guess it's much like trying to tell just from appearance who is Christian or not. Intelligence sources need to keep doing what they are doing...in my opinion a very good job as it would seem most potential threat of attack is being thwarted ahead of time.
Yes, I am aware of the arrests here. Intelligence sources say we are a large target (particularly where I live) because of our oil. We are a major supplier to you folks, and I live in the city where most of the oil offices are. The province I live in has a large amount of oil sands. So, we are supposedly a target. So far everything has been thwarted though, and hopefully that continues to be the case.
So far our so called honor killings have been appropriately prosecuted and treated as any other murder. I hope and do beleive it will stay that way. That is a barbariac and archaic practice that has no place in our society. Fortunately most of our Muslims agree.
The simple fact is you cannnot tell who is a Muslim most of the time, let alone who is radical. I believe something like 3/4 of US Muslims are black. The majority of the radicals come from Arabic countries, although certainly not all. But then again, all Arabic individuals are not Muslim. I guess it's much like trying to tell just from appearance who is Christian or not. Intelligence sources need to keep doing what they are doing...in my opinion a very good job as it would seem most potential threat of attack is being thwarted ahead of time.
It is my understanding the center is open to all of any religion and/or culture, and I am assuming that includes the pool. Since it is a community thing, I bet they can even wear swimsuits, american style?
I have no idea if they're choosing to use a separate entrance or are being told to do so. To assume that I believe they're forced to do so is a falsehood. I do know some females do resent this practice. And yes, synagogues are segregated. I assume this is fine with Jewish females. One of my best friends in high school was Jewish. I never saw either her or any of her female relatives cover their heads, except when it was raining.
I do wonder if the swimming pool planned for the mosque will be open to males and females at the same time.
But the very disturbing practice of honor killing is still practiced even here in the US and in Canada. Some occurred in families that were considered moderate and assimilated.
So how do you tell which Muslim is moderate and which is not? They don't exactly wear signs around their necks. I'm sure you're aware of the recent arrests in Canada. One of those arrested has appeared in the Canadian version of American Idol. I don't think he made it very far!!
I do wonder if the swimming pool planned for the mosque will be open to males and females at the same time.
But the very disturbing practice of honor killing is still practiced even here in the US and in Canada. Some occurred in families that were considered moderate and assimilated.
So how do you tell which Muslim is moderate and which is not? They don't exactly wear signs around their necks. I'm sure you're aware of the recent arrests in Canada. One of those arrested has appeared in the Canadian version of American Idol. I don't think he made it very far!!
There is more then one religion that believes in seperating men and women...seperate entrances and seperate seating arrangments. Judiasm is one. Ever been to an Orthodox Jew wedding? I have. The men and women celebrate seperately. Women are also expected to cover their hair while outside the home...many wear wigs. It's just tradition and culture.
I can also say that again, the Muslim treatment of women depends much on the individual. The moderates I know do not treat their wives disrespectfully...they work outside the home, drive cars, make decisions...just as I do. They are equal partners in their marriages and their husbands absolutely respect them. So again, we have to recognize not all are the same.
I can also say that again, the Muslim treatment of women depends much on the individual. The moderates I know do not treat their wives disrespectfully...they work outside the home, drive cars, make decisions...just as I do. They are equal partners in their marriages and their husbands absolutely respect them. So again, we have to recognize not all are the same.
The only thing I really want to comment on is the Muslim treatment of women here in the US. If the women go threw a separate entrance, it is their choice. In the US, Muslim women have the choice to follow their religion or not, and to what extent. They won't be thrown in jail for using the wrong entrance or not covering their head. Years ago, women had to wear a scarf, hat or doily on their head when entering church... Catholic church. And we did it! This is the amazing thing....we have a choice in the US!
Or would you prefer we "force" these women to go threw the same entrance?
When freedom is forced, it's not freedom.
Or would you prefer we "force" these women to go threw the same entrance?
When freedom is forced, it's not freedom.
I do see where they addressed the Imam's refusal to call Hamas a terrorist organization. Hamas's agenda begins and ends with the total eradication of Israel and any who help her. Hamas also gets a lot of aid through Iran. That sounds like radical terrorism to me.
Not a mosque? Do the women and men go through the same entrance? I already know that answer. The building is already being used for services. There are separate entrances for males and females.
It is also already being used for the study of Sharia law. The Sharia Index project is located there. Figure out that one for yourself. Hint: Imam Rauf wants Sharia law instituted in the US. He has already stated that the US is the most Sharia compliant country in the West. I'd love to hear the explanation of that one.
He also stated that the US has more innocent Islamic blood on its hands than Al Qaida. He further states that this blood is from the half million Iraqi children who died during the Iraqi embargo in the Clinton years. He doesn't place any of the blame on Saddam Hussein. Please remember that humanitarian aid was allowed through the embargo. What happened to it once Saddam got his hands on it, is not our fault. The blame is on Saddam Hussein. But this Imam will not acknowledge that. He keeps the blame on us.
He may have spoken out against some extremism but I've not heard it. But by no stretch of the imagination has he spoken out against all Islamic terrorism. By my standards, that takes him out of the moderate category.
Not a mosque? Do the women and men go through the same entrance? I already know that answer. The building is already being used for services. There are separate entrances for males and females.
It is also already being used for the study of Sharia law. The Sharia Index project is located there. Figure out that one for yourself. Hint: Imam Rauf wants Sharia law instituted in the US. He has already stated that the US is the most Sharia compliant country in the West. I'd love to hear the explanation of that one.
He also stated that the US has more innocent Islamic blood on its hands than Al Qaida. He further states that this blood is from the half million Iraqi children who died during the Iraqi embargo in the Clinton years. He doesn't place any of the blame on Saddam Hussein. Please remember that humanitarian aid was allowed through the embargo. What happened to it once Saddam got his hands on it, is not our fault. The blame is on Saddam Hussein. But this Imam will not acknowledge that. He keeps the blame on us.
He may have spoken out against some extremism but I've not heard it. But by no stretch of the imagination has he spoken out against all Islamic terrorism. By my standards, that takes him out of the moderate category.
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