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Just a bluff? Fears grow of Israeli attack on Iran
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2012/02/05/international/i111017S22.DTL&ao=all
"For the first time in nearly two decades of escalating tensions over Iran's nuclear program, world leaders are genuinely concerned that an Israeli military attack on the Islamic Republic could be imminent — an action that many fear might trigger a wider war, terrorism and global economic havoc....
Despite harsh economic sanctions and international pressure, Iran is refusing to abandon its nuclear program, which it insists is purely civilian, and threatening Israel and the West.
It's beginning to cause jitters in world capitals and financial markets....
Israel views Iran as a mortal threat, citing Iranian calls for Israel's destruction, Iran's support for anti-Israel militant groups and Iranian missile technology capable of hitting Israel.
On Friday, Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, called Israel a "cancerous tumor that should be cut and will be cut," and boasted of supporting any group that will challenge the Jewish state.
When faced with such threats, Israeli has a history of lashing out in the face of world opposition. That legacy that includes the game-changing 1967 Middle East war, which left Israel in control of vast Arab lands, a brazen 1981 airstrike that destroyed an unfinished Iraqi nuclear reactor, and a stealthy 2007 airstrike in Syria that is believed to have destroyed a nuclear reactor in the early stages of construction....
Many in the region cannot believe Israel would take such a step without a green light from the United States, its most important ally. That sense is deepened by the heightened stakes of a U.S. election year and the feeling that if Israel acts alone, the West would not escape unscathed....
Amos Yadlin, the former head of Israel's military intelligence, said the world needed less discussion on the issue. "There is the danger that an escalation could get out of control," he said. "Israel should go back to what it does best: Shut up."
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/46254827/ns/today-today_people/
"Israel is right to be concerned about Iran's push to join the league of nations that possess nuclear weapons, but diplomacy - not military intervention - remains the "preferred solution" to averting a potential arms race in the Middle East, President Barack Obama said Sunday.............."
"For the first time in nearly two decades of escalating tensions over Iran's nuclear program, world leaders are genuinely concerned that an Israeli military attack on the Islamic Republic could be imminent — an action that many fear might trigger a wider war, terrorism and global economic havoc....
Despite harsh economic sanctions and international pressure, Iran is refusing to abandon its nuclear program, which it insists is purely civilian, and threatening Israel and the West.
It's beginning to cause jitters in world capitals and financial markets....
Israel views Iran as a mortal threat, citing Iranian calls for Israel's destruction, Iran's support for anti-Israel militant groups and Iranian missile technology capable of hitting Israel.
On Friday, Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, called Israel a "cancerous tumor that should be cut and will be cut," and boasted of supporting any group that will challenge the Jewish state.
When faced with such threats, Israeli has a history of lashing out in the face of world opposition. That legacy that includes the game-changing 1967 Middle East war, which left Israel in control of vast Arab lands, a brazen 1981 airstrike that destroyed an unfinished Iraqi nuclear reactor, and a stealthy 2007 airstrike in Syria that is believed to have destroyed a nuclear reactor in the early stages of construction....
Many in the region cannot believe Israel would take such a step without a green light from the United States, its most important ally. That sense is deepened by the heightened stakes of a U.S. election year and the feeling that if Israel acts alone, the West would not escape unscathed....
Amos Yadlin, the former head of Israel's military intelligence, said the world needed less discussion on the issue. "There is the danger that an escalation could get out of control," he said. "Israel should go back to what it does best: Shut up."
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/46254827/ns/today-today_people/
"Israel is right to be concerned about Iran's push to join the league of nations that possess nuclear weapons, but diplomacy - not military intervention - remains the "preferred solution" to averting a potential arms race in the Middle East, President Barack Obama said Sunday.............."
Report: Saudi Arabia to buy nukes if Iran tests A-bomb
http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/10/10369793-report-saudi-arabia-to-buy-nukes-if-iran-tests-a-bomb
"... Pakistan was the country most likely to supply Saudi Arabia with weapons, saying Western officials were convinced there was an understanding between the countries to do so if the security situation in the Persian Gulf gets worse......In a statement issued Friday by the Pakistan Embassy in Saudi Arabia, Ambassador Mohammed Naeem Khan was quoted as saying that "each Pakistani considers (the) security of Saudi Arabia as his personal matter."......
In January this year, Saudi Arabia's former ambassador to the U.S., Prince Turki al-Faisal, said in an interview with The Associated Press that unless a zone free of weapons of mass destruction was created in the Mideast there would "inevitably" be a nuclear arms race, and "that's not going to be in the favor of anybody."
He stressed that the Gulf states were committed not to acquire WMD.
"But we're not the only players in town. You have Turkey. You have Iraq which has a track record of wanting to go nuclear. You have Egypt. They had a very vibrant nuclear energy program from the 1960s. You have Syria. You have other players in the area that could open Pandora's box," the Saudi prince told The AP......"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGptO6j3G-U
(Somewhat dated song from the 60s about nuclear proliferation.)
http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/10/10369793-report-saudi-arabia-to-buy-nukes-if-iran-tests-a-bomb
"... Pakistan was the country most likely to supply Saudi Arabia with weapons, saying Western officials were convinced there was an understanding between the countries to do so if the security situation in the Persian Gulf gets worse......In a statement issued Friday by the Pakistan Embassy in Saudi Arabia, Ambassador Mohammed Naeem Khan was quoted as saying that "each Pakistani considers (the) security of Saudi Arabia as his personal matter."......
In January this year, Saudi Arabia's former ambassador to the U.S., Prince Turki al-Faisal, said in an interview with The Associated Press that unless a zone free of weapons of mass destruction was created in the Mideast there would "inevitably" be a nuclear arms race, and "that's not going to be in the favor of anybody."
He stressed that the Gulf states were committed not to acquire WMD.
"But we're not the only players in town. You have Turkey. You have Iraq which has a track record of wanting to go nuclear. You have Egypt. They had a very vibrant nuclear energy program from the 1960s. You have Syria. You have other players in the area that could open Pandora's box," the Saudi prince told The AP......"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGptO6j3G-U
(Somewhat dated song from the 60s about nuclear proliferation.)
I think the situation with Iran and US invovlement (and it's allies) is sort of a darned if you do, darned if you don't situation. And I still think Iran is trying to provoke this, which makes me believe there is someone far more powerful who has guaranteed support (I know, sounds like a conspiracy, but I think you all know me well enough to know I typically don't buy into that stuff). If Israel takes a preemptive strike without going through the proper channels, then I'm not sure the US and the rest of us should support it. Yes, we are allies, but you can't just go out and start bombing people and expect others to jump in because we are "friends". It has to go through the proper channels. However, if it comes to light that Iran is really that close to a nuclear weapon, then it becomes a very different story.
I do think this whole situation is far bigger then just Iran/Us/Israel. I do worry a great deal about Pakistan, China, Russia, etc. as they are all nuclear armed countries and I'm not sure what side of the fence they would fall on.
As for supporting your President? Yes, I believe I would. The reason is I don't feel he is as quick to war as some of his predessors. I actually believe that if he took that route, it would be because it was the only possiblity left. I did not feel the same way about Iraq. I don't question that Bush acted in the way he felt was best...I may not have been a Bush fan, but I don't think he was some evil war monger either. I just question his overall judgement. I know this is a controversial subject, but just stating my opinion.
I do think this whole situation is far bigger then just Iran/Us/Israel. I do worry a great deal about Pakistan, China, Russia, etc. as they are all nuclear armed countries and I'm not sure what side of the fence they would fall on.
As for supporting your President? Yes, I believe I would. The reason is I don't feel he is as quick to war as some of his predessors. I actually believe that if he took that route, it would be because it was the only possiblity left. I did not feel the same way about Iraq. I don't question that Bush acted in the way he felt was best...I may not have been a Bush fan, but I don't think he was some evil war monger either. I just question his overall judgement. I know this is a controversial subject, but just stating my opinion.
I don't know that we are necessarily "itching" to get back into a war. (Kind of goes against the grain of the President) This does have a lot to do with global strategy and so much of it is things you and I won't have the opportunity to understand.
As for being in Iraq. Again, I think it was strategical and I have no idea what the real reason/s were. "Weapons of mass destruction"? Hussein himself is guilty of killing a million or so Iraqi's. We took him out, finally... but are the problems there over? Not a chance. The little religious sects have been warring for centuries and will continue. Nothing America and its allies can do about that. There just isn't.
Iran.... we all know the leadership there is basically nuts. They are idealistic and controlling and do not have the citizens welfare in mind. They are playing a game that they cannot win.... there is no winning in this for them, unless this regime steps down but then it is only a partial win. A new regime steps in and settles in and it probably has a 50/50 chance of being as nutty as this one.
We have nothing to prove there. We are simply playing "big brother" again. I wish we weren't the worlds watch dog, but we have interests all over the globe that keep us engaged at all times. Again, it is all strategical.
Question.... will anyone change their opinion of the President if we end up going to war with Iraq?
As for being in Iraq. Again, I think it was strategical and I have no idea what the real reason/s were. "Weapons of mass destruction"? Hussein himself is guilty of killing a million or so Iraqi's. We took him out, finally... but are the problems there over? Not a chance. The little religious sects have been warring for centuries and will continue. Nothing America and its allies can do about that. There just isn't.
Iran.... we all know the leadership there is basically nuts. They are idealistic and controlling and do not have the citizens welfare in mind. They are playing a game that they cannot win.... there is no winning in this for them, unless this regime steps down but then it is only a partial win. A new regime steps in and settles in and it probably has a 50/50 chance of being as nutty as this one.
We have nothing to prove there. We are simply playing "big brother" again. I wish we weren't the worlds watch dog, but we have interests all over the globe that keep us engaged at all times. Again, it is all strategical.
Question.... will anyone change their opinion of the President if we end up going to war with Iraq?
I think the arms are primarily coming from Russia. You do have to wonder who will side with them...I'm not sure anyone openly at first, but I do think this will, over time, involve more then just the US and it's allies and Iran. I do think Russia will eventually get involved, and perhaps China. I don't actually think you'll see many of the Middle Eastern countries get involved, Too many problems of their own right now, and the ones that don't probably won't want to rock the boat. But Pakistan is a concern. Right now the leadership there is tenuous, and an Iranian/Israeli war with US involvement could spur a change there to a far less then friendly western gov't. If Pakistan get's involved, then of course India will...they hate Pakistan. I don't know, I think it could grow quite quickly. I just find the whole thing quite terrifying. I agree they have to be dealt with, especially as they get closer to having nuclear arms...God help us all if that happens.
So many good decent Iranian people. And yes, a lot of well educated people there. But, as desert says', the leaders there are the problem. Look at how many protests, etc there have been over the years. The leaders there make the leaders of Syria, Egypt, etc. look like innocents. If this happens, I think it will make Iraq and Afghanistan look like a schoolyard fight.
So many good decent Iranian people. And yes, a lot of well educated people there. But, as desert says', the leaders there are the problem. Look at how many protests, etc there have been over the years. The leaders there make the leaders of Syria, Egypt, etc. look like innocents. If this happens, I think it will make Iraq and Afghanistan look like a schoolyard fight.
I just heard via www.businessweek.com/.../obama-freezes-iranian-government-bank-... I hope I got that right... Obama ordered a freeze on all Iranian Government and central bank assets held in the US or any foreign branch of a US entity...the order signed yesterday.. So I guess the US is going to hit them hard and in my opinion not before time .....
It's not that the Iranian pople wish to be wiped off the face of the earth, rather, that the religious dictatorship running the country doesn't care how many of their own people are killed as long as they remain in power. They threw away lives by the 100,000s fighting Iraq. Any attack from outside their country helps to solidify their power.
Remember, the reason Iran has a great number of well educated scientists and skilled fighter pilots, is largely because the Shah placed a high value on these qualities and sent as many of his young people as possible to America to acquire these skills and knowledge. When he was overthrown, the Ayatollahs inherited this power. And when this educated, largely sectarian middle class dared to stand up and protest rigged elections a couple years ago, the world stood by with their hands in their pockets.
It's become increasingly easy to keep this middle class under the thumb of the dictators. It costs very little to keep the Basij militias supplied with motorbikes and automatic weapons. And I'm sure much of the skill and the tech of the current secret police is an inheritance passed down from the 70s. I don't see a solution and like adgal, fear for the worst.
Remember, the reason Iran has a great number of well educated scientists and skilled fighter pilots, is largely because the Shah placed a high value on these qualities and sent as many of his young people as possible to America to acquire these skills and knowledge. When he was overthrown, the Ayatollahs inherited this power. And when this educated, largely sectarian middle class dared to stand up and protest rigged elections a couple years ago, the world stood by with their hands in their pockets.
It's become increasingly easy to keep this middle class under the thumb of the dictators. It costs very little to keep the Basij militias supplied with motorbikes and automatic weapons. And I'm sure much of the skill and the tech of the current secret police is an inheritance passed down from the 70s. I don't see a solution and like adgal, fear for the worst.
And who is selling both sides arms??
Is it a bluff? No I dont think its a bluff. Im still trying to figure out how it is that we are just now getting our men and women home from other useless wars and now we are just itching it would seem to do it all over again. It seems so much like when we went into Iraq looking for non existant weapons of mass destruction. It feels like a do over to me. Where is the proof of nuclear weapons? Im just not falling for the fact that even Iran wants to be wiped off the face of the earth. If they managed to hit anybody, they will simply be a dust spot on the globe. Yeah, Im not buying this Iran bs. It just cropped up one day and they been beatin that drum louder and louder, trying to convince us? Of course Israel will blast em! Welcome to world war three.
War is good for profits.
Does anyone else remember the old t-shirts and bumper stickers that said, "blow a hole-a in the Ayatollah"? They go back to the early 80's.... I'm still not sure why we didn't "unseat" that dictator. We had our chance and pulled up short, and like both of you I think we will be back over there probably sooner rather than later.
If and when we get involved, who will side up with Iran? World war??? I hope not.... potential war partners with Iran stand a lot to lose as well.
If and when we get involved, who will side up with Iran? World war??? I hope not.... potential war partners with Iran stand a lot to lose as well.
Good post I stand by Israel , I do not think that Iran will heed any diplomatic exchanges I think they are intent on having nuclear weapons. I hope that they will , but my gut tells me that the US will be involved .Obama has in fact until recently not be a good friend of Israel but I think he will have no choice . As a member of CUFI( Christians United for Israel) I see on their web site they also are convinced that Iran is intent in wiping them out..In the news online today they are having on land 'war games' I thjnk they will make the first strike .
There has been a fair amount about this on our local news lately, and of course I saw the segment last night on CNN. I have to tell you, I think it is a matter of when not if. And I think Iran is trying to push them along with the US into entering a war. I seriously do. I think their leaders are borderline insane (if not all the way there) and have WANT this to happen. And if it does...I see this as being the beginning of the the 3rd world war. I know, many think I worry too much about this, but I think it would be far more serious then what we have seen in recent history. It scares me a great deal.
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