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Lt. Col. refusing deployment.....
So still watching Anderson Cooper. He interviewed a Lt. Col. (a Dr. actually) in the US military who is refusing deployment (to Afganistan I believe) based on the fact that he doesn't believe Pres. Obama was born in American, therefor is not eligible to be Pres. so he doesn't actually have to take orders from him. The Lt. Col. didn't actually do much talking, his lawyer did (he is being courtmartialed) and it all seemed fairly ridiculous. Anderson Cooper had a copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for Pres. Obama issued by the state of Hawaii. Defense funds are being raised by a group called the American Patriots. Are we seriously still debating this issue? The man is the President of the US. Surely someone higher up the food chain then this Lt. Col would have ensured the man was born in the US. I mean, come on, seriously?
There are so many holes and discrepancies about obamas citizenship..I honestly dont know what to believe....
We would like to have faith in our government that these sort of things would be checked out properly before hand....But can we really?
The majority of the suspicions have been created by obama and his camp because of their unwillingness to fully disclose.Why? Whats the problem?
Why doesnt obama just show what needs to be shown and clear the air about this once and for all?....It's just that simple....
We would like to have faith in our government that these sort of things would be checked out properly before hand....But can we really?
The majority of the suspicions have been created by obama and his camp because of their unwillingness to fully disclose.Why? Whats the problem?
Why doesnt obama just show what needs to be shown and clear the air about this once and for all?....It's just that simple....
Simple, he should be court-marshaled as said stripped of rank and given a dishonorable discharge. More than likely his orders came from HQ and signed by someone in the command chain and such IMO is insubordination and refusal to follow an order given by a superior.
Why should he be stripped of rank and given a dishonoable dishcharge? Thats just ridiculous.....This man has earned his rank and privileges by surving his country faithfully.One does not become a Lt. Col ovenight.
I dont look at it as insubordination....I look at it as him standing up for what he believes in...He has every right to do so.
I dont look at it as insubordination....I look at it as him standing up for what he believes in...He has every right to do so.
I agree with Vic, he should be court marshalled and branded coward or traitor. And, all the documentation has been provided from the get go as to Obamas birth. It was not, is not good enuff for these so called birthers and never will be and we all know it. This is ridiculous. Unwillingness to disclose what? It has been on record since the get go and all the birthers have done is go "OH NO" it cannot be true, I do not believe it, It has got to be a conspiracy theory and he is lying and there is a big cover up and he wants to ruin the US and lead us to a one world government and he hates white people and is part black so therefore must be sympathetic to black people and trying to gain control over white people and yada,yada,yada, And as far as being court marshalled and branded a traitor so should the people be, that spin this bs. I mean REALLY! Move forward people!
Obama responded to that by saying, if these people want to believe something like that then there will never be enuff documentation, because they simply do not want to believe other than what they do. I think he pretty much summed it up.
Obama responded to that by saying, if these people want to believe something like that then there will never be enuff documentation, because they simply do not want to believe other than what they do. I think he pretty much summed it up.
I would say I have to aggree that this "birther" guy is nutty. If I hadn't been told he was a physician, I'd never have guessed by his inability to articulate anything. And his lawyer . . . yeesh. They have no response but a blank stare when it is made mention of two seperate newspapers recording his birth that year. He did what was legally necessary to prove citizenship and I'm satisfied with that.
Anderson Cooper had a statement issued from someone in the Hawaii'n state gov't (your system is different from ours, so forgive me, I know I will get the dept. wrong here), something to do with vital statistics? Anyway, the statement read that in Hawaii, the certificate of live birth was what was issued. It is the legal documentation. This Lt. Col.'s lawyer said that even a child born outside of the US can recieve that particular document, but Anderson Cooper pointed out that if that was the case then it states that directly on the certificate. This Lt. Col did not sound very credible to me, and his lawyer came across as looking for time in the spotlight more then anything else. He would not let the Lt. Col. speak. I am curious, what else should be provided? Is that not the birth certificate that so many were demanding to see at one point? I have to agree with VicUser, I too think he should be, if nothing else, dishonorably discharged.
Have any of us seen the birth certificate I dont know if he ever produced the original ,and thats was has fired the story up up I agree with Stormy why should he se stripped... is this not Freedom of Speech is he not allowed now to do something he believes in , he knew he was risking his career . I have no idea whether its true , I have read many atricles about it, and a lot of Americans believ it possible especially as Mrs Obama said her self that Africa was his 'home country' now yes that could be a manner of speech but it doesnt help.So i say sorry I dont agree with the rest of youthat he should be strpped of his rank and punished for daring to speak out ,freedom of speech
Lt. Col. Cooper became a soldier WAY before Obama became president. He took an oath to obey orders. Period. He did NOT take that oath "depending" on whether or not he liked whoever is/was the sitting President. Nope. None of us could have seen where this country was taken, but TOO BAD.
I agree with those who say that he should be stripped of his rank and given a dishonorable discharge. A soldier is a servant, no matter what rank he or she attains - even up to the highest ranking military official right under the President.
If he doesn't like the current President, he needs to find a mature way of resigning his commission and getting out of the military and then exercising his Freedom of Speech to his heart's content. Just MY humble opinion.
I agree with those who say that he should be stripped of his rank and given a dishonorable discharge. A soldier is a servant, no matter what rank he or she attains - even up to the highest ranking military official right under the President.
If he doesn't like the current President, he needs to find a mature way of resigning his commission and getting out of the military and then exercising his Freedom of Speech to his heart's content. Just MY humble opinion.
A soldier is a servant to a point.....
They are people first with their own beliefs and morals.
On what grounds should he be dishonorably dishcharged?How on earth does this make him a coward or a traitor?
This guy could very well be a nutjob or he could really believe in what he's doing...I am going to judge the motives behind it.
They are people first with their own beliefs and morals.
On what grounds should he be dishonorably dishcharged?How on earth does this make him a coward or a traitor?
This guy could very well be a nutjob or he could really believe in what he's doing...I am going to judge the motives behind it.
Opps...I ment to say...I am NOT going to judge his motives.....
As stormy said why does this brand him a coward and a traitor ....I believe he is defending himself incidently half of America has a copy... its the original OBama wont produce and no one has seen ...the ones who believe he wasnt born here have asked to see it , he wont comply ..Seems like it would clear it all up for once and for all. If you gave read about this you would see that Kenya says he was born there ....
*I* never said he was a coward OR a traitor. I think neither one. I DO believe that no one held a gun to his head and said "SIGN UP FOR THE MILITARY, OR ELSE." He took an oath to obey orders, NOT obey them IF he likes the current president. The guy aint no coward OR a traitor, he DOES have a right to free speech, but this ain't the platform.
I agree he IS NOT a coward or traitor, BUT he did take an oath and refusing a lawful order, which he is doing by not deploying, is something that cannot be tolerated in a military organization. He needs to consider his actions on the troops that serve under him. If he does not like his he could simply resign his commission and leave. This way he is setting a BAD example of the way an Officer, especially of his rank, should act.
Thus, I still say he should be busted in rank and dishonorably discharged.
Thus, I still say he should be busted in rank and dishonorably discharged.
Teko said that he should be branded a coward or traitor.....?????
Oath or not I would never do anything that I did not agree with or believe was right.
Well we are just going to agree to disagree about the demotion in rank and the dishonorable discharge.....I just dont see the ideaology behind it.....
Oath or not I would never do anything that I did not agree with or believe was right.
Well we are just going to agree to disagree about the demotion in rank and the dishonorable discharge.....I just dont see the ideaology behind it.....
Well, they are proceeding with court martialing him, or at least that's what was said last night. I think this will be an interesting story to follow. And they did have a copy of Pres. Obama's birth certificate last night, so I am pretty confused as to what the issue is. Am I misunderstanding something? As I said, your system is a bit different then ours, so to me it looked like the issue was resolved, but I am really interested in how this continues to be a problem.
I agree this will be an interesting one to follow.....
When you are in the military and defy an order to serve, it is and always has been looked upon as treason in my opinion and should get prison time and a dishonorable discharge.
What is treason?
Treason is a rather serious crime committed against your nation. Can be as little as disloyalty or as serious as murder. A person who committs treason is called a traitor. One of the more famous American traitors was Benedict Arnold.
What is treason?
Treason is a rather serious crime committed against your nation. Can be as little as disloyalty or as serious as murder. A person who committs treason is called a traitor. One of the more famous American traitors was Benedict Arnold.
copy/paste from: http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/t103.htm
TREASON
This word imports a betraying, treachery, or breach of allegiance.
The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
He's not levying war against the US; therefore according to the Constitution, it's not treason and he's not a traitor. He IS insubordinate because he's refusing to obey an order.
TREASON
This word imports a betraying, treachery, or breach of allegiance.
The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
He's not levying war against the US; therefore according to the Constitution, it's not treason and he's not a traitor. He IS insubordinate because he's refusing to obey an order.
Regardless of the authenticity of Obama’s birth certificate, he is the Commander in Chief.
Yes he is Commander and Chief and those of you who want to call it insubordination or whatever else, doesnt matter, to me he is a traitor and a pig. I hope they nail him and anyone else that follows suit. When you are in the military you follow orders, you dont get to say what you will or will not do for whatever reason you think you have a cause. Freedom of Speech does not over ride those rules. I remember when people were avoiding the draft because they did not believe in the viet nam war. They were prosecuted and put in jail and so was the commoner who harbored them.
In thinking more about this, can you imagine the can of worms that would be opened if he were to actually get away with this? You could have people refusing to serve for a whole variety of reasons. I would think that the military will move quickly on this issue to put it to bed, and I suspect they may make an example of him and the situation. No matter whether you feel his reasoning has any validity or not, you can't just have military members suddenly refusing commands. It goes against all the military stands for, and you would have absolute chaos within.
“ I dont look at it as insubordination....I look at it as him standing up for what he believes in...He has every right to do so.”
. Regardless of his reasoning, this is insubordination.
As I have stated many times, I am not a fan of Obama.
It baffles my mind that someone can become the President of the United States of America before all questions about the authenticity of his Birth Certificate are answered beyond a shadow of doubt.
However, I have several problems with the Lt Col.
If he would have made his stand when Obama was first elected, I would understand and may even respected him for making make a stand. The military is ran by chain of command starting with the Commander in Chief.
Since Obama has been elected, I am sure he has obeyed many orders, none of which was made directly from Obama. I find it hard to believe the President called him directly and gave him his orders of deployment.
So, by using the excuse of a valid Birth Certificate to not follow orders is hypocritical.
Regardless of my opinion of Obama, if our military is allowed to fall apart, we are
. Regardless of his reasoning, this is insubordination.
As I have stated many times, I am not a fan of Obama.
It baffles my mind that someone can become the President of the United States of America before all questions about the authenticity of his Birth Certificate are answered beyond a shadow of doubt.
However, I have several problems with the Lt Col.
If he would have made his stand when Obama was first elected, I would understand and may even respected him for making make a stand. The military is ran by chain of command starting with the Commander in Chief.
Since Obama has been elected, I am sure he has obeyed many orders, none of which was made directly from Obama. I find it hard to believe the President called him directly and gave him his orders of deployment.
So, by using the excuse of a valid Birth Certificate to not follow orders is hypocritical.
Regardless of my opinion of Obama, if our military is allowed to fall apart, we are
we are done
Insubordination is refusal to obey orders, so since he refused to obey orders --- seems pretty cut and dried to me........
R Glass said it all pretty well....
R Glass said it all pretty well....
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