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Florida Pastor calls off Quran Burning
(CNN) -- The Florida pastor who had planned to burn copies of the Quran on Saturday has called it off.
The Rev. Terry Jones of the Gainesville, Florida-based Dove World Outreach Center made the announcement Thursday.
Earlier Thursday, President Obama said Jones' plan, which had triggered worldwide controversy, would be a "recruitment bonanza for al Qaeda."
"You could have serious violence in places like Pakistan or Afghanistan" as a result of the proposal by Jones, Obama said on ABC's "Good Morning America." "This could increase the recruitment of individuals who'd be willing to blow themselves up in American cities, or European cities."
Jones had previously said he would proceed with the plan Saturday -- the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks -- despite increased pressure to abandon the proposal and warnings that going ahead could endanger U.S. troops and Americans worldwide.
There were several developments prior to Jones' cancellation announcement:
-- Local governments said they were going to bill Jones for the extra cost of security for Saturday's event.
-- Interpol on Thursday issued a global alert to its 188 member countries, warning of a "strong likelihood" of violent attacks if the Quran burning proceeds.
Video: Gauging reaction to Quran burning
Video: No permit to burn Qurans?
Video: Call for tolerance RELATED TOPICS
Terry Jones
Islam
First Amendment Rights
-- An armed Christian organization, which withdrew its support for the Quran-burning event last month, said the administration "needs to stay out of this" and pledged to defend the Dove Center's right to hold the event, despite its disagreement.
-- The FBI warned local law enforcement that the plan, along with other recent controversies involving the American Muslim community, could lead to hate crimes and could encourage extremist rhetoric, although a federal law enforcement official said there was no credible information that attacks were planned.
The FBI visited Jones at the Dove Center on Thursday, according to Jeffrey Westcott, special agent in charge of the Jacksonville, Florida, bureau. The FBI also visited him a few weeks ago, he said, but would not say what was discussed.
Discussions were taking place within the Obama administration about the possibility of intervening, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters Thursday. Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said the possibility of calling Jones is under consideration, and that Defense Secretary Robert Gates was participating in the discussions.
Earlier this week, the top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan, Gen. David Petraeus, warned that the plan "could cause significant problems" for American troops overseas.
Jones has rejected the pleas, saying his message targets radical Islamists. "The general needs to point his finger to radical Islam and tell them to shut up, tell them to stop, tell them that we will not bow our knees to them," Jones said on CNN's "AC360." "We are burning the book. We are not killing someone. We are not murdering people."
Meanwhile, Obama told ABC, "As commander in chief of the armed forces of the United States, I just want him to understand that this stunt that he is talking about pulling could greatly endanger our young men and women in uniform who are in Iraq, who are in Afghanistan. We're already seeing protests against Americans just by the mere threat ... this is a destructive act that he's engaging in."
The Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Muslim civil liberties and advocacy group, announced an initiative called "Learn, Don't Burn" on Thursday and will distribute Qurans to replace the burned copies.
Awad said the group is concerned that the plan may lead to hate crimes against Muslims. Cross burnings by the Ku Klux Klan were an indication of hate crimes to follow against African-Americans, he said, and Nazis started with burning books and "ended up burning people."
CAIR has been working with attorneys, and no basis has been found to stop the burnings under the law, he said, but he added that if the plan is going to incite violence, the government should step in.
"I can assure you that on September 11, you will not see a bonfire of Qurans being burned at the Dove Church," Imam Mahdi Bray, head of the Muslim-American Society, told reporters.
He said he has just returned from Gainesville, where city officials told him Jones will not receive a burn permit and any sort of incendiary material will violate the city code. A fire truck will be nearby to douse any flames, he said.
Gainesville Mayor Craig Lowe said Jones' requests for burn permits have been denied, and city officials hope that he will comply. If he breaks the law, action can be taken against Jones, with the response based on whatever the infraction might be, he said. Lowe has declared Saturday "Interfaith Solidarity Day."
City Communications Manager Bob Woods said the city will tally up costs related to the event and present Jones with the bill.
Alachua County Sheriff's Office spokesman Art Forgey says " we do plan to compile and send a bill to Mr Jones."
"I don't know that we have the teeth to enforce it, though" Forgey added. Instead, the bill may just end up being a statement to Jones about how much the event cost local citizens, the spokesman said.
The Gainesville Students for a Democratic Society said Thursday it will bus in students from as far away as Chicago, Illinois, and will have about 600 on hand Saturday to protest at a nearby park, then march to the church to picket the event.
Meanwhile, two websites associated with Jones and his church were down Thursday.
Rackspace Hosting took down the two sites because the church "violated the hate speech provision of our acceptable use policy," said spokesman Dan Goodgame.
The company investigated a complaint in the past couple days and made the determination after reviewing both sites, said Goodgame, adding that Rackspace was under no pressure to act.
"This is not a constitutional issue. This is a contract issue," he said.
The Rev. Terry Jones of the Gainesville, Florida-based Dove World Outreach Center made the announcement Thursday.
Earlier Thursday, President Obama said Jones' plan, which had triggered worldwide controversy, would be a "recruitment bonanza for al Qaeda."
"You could have serious violence in places like Pakistan or Afghanistan" as a result of the proposal by Jones, Obama said on ABC's "Good Morning America." "This could increase the recruitment of individuals who'd be willing to blow themselves up in American cities, or European cities."
Jones had previously said he would proceed with the plan Saturday -- the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks -- despite increased pressure to abandon the proposal and warnings that going ahead could endanger U.S. troops and Americans worldwide.
There were several developments prior to Jones' cancellation announcement:
-- Local governments said they were going to bill Jones for the extra cost of security for Saturday's event.
-- Interpol on Thursday issued a global alert to its 188 member countries, warning of a "strong likelihood" of violent attacks if the Quran burning proceeds.
Video: Gauging reaction to Quran burning
Video: No permit to burn Qurans?
Video: Call for tolerance RELATED TOPICS
Terry Jones
Islam
First Amendment Rights
-- An armed Christian organization, which withdrew its support for the Quran-burning event last month, said the administration "needs to stay out of this" and pledged to defend the Dove Center's right to hold the event, despite its disagreement.
-- The FBI warned local law enforcement that the plan, along with other recent controversies involving the American Muslim community, could lead to hate crimes and could encourage extremist rhetoric, although a federal law enforcement official said there was no credible information that attacks were planned.
The FBI visited Jones at the Dove Center on Thursday, according to Jeffrey Westcott, special agent in charge of the Jacksonville, Florida, bureau. The FBI also visited him a few weeks ago, he said, but would not say what was discussed.
Discussions were taking place within the Obama administration about the possibility of intervening, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters Thursday. Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said the possibility of calling Jones is under consideration, and that Defense Secretary Robert Gates was participating in the discussions.
Earlier this week, the top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan, Gen. David Petraeus, warned that the plan "could cause significant problems" for American troops overseas.
Jones has rejected the pleas, saying his message targets radical Islamists. "The general needs to point his finger to radical Islam and tell them to shut up, tell them to stop, tell them that we will not bow our knees to them," Jones said on CNN's "AC360." "We are burning the book. We are not killing someone. We are not murdering people."
Meanwhile, Obama told ABC, "As commander in chief of the armed forces of the United States, I just want him to understand that this stunt that he is talking about pulling could greatly endanger our young men and women in uniform who are in Iraq, who are in Afghanistan. We're already seeing protests against Americans just by the mere threat ... this is a destructive act that he's engaging in."
The Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Muslim civil liberties and advocacy group, announced an initiative called "Learn, Don't Burn" on Thursday and will distribute Qurans to replace the burned copies.
Awad said the group is concerned that the plan may lead to hate crimes against Muslims. Cross burnings by the Ku Klux Klan were an indication of hate crimes to follow against African-Americans, he said, and Nazis started with burning books and "ended up burning people."
CAIR has been working with attorneys, and no basis has been found to stop the burnings under the law, he said, but he added that if the plan is going to incite violence, the government should step in.
"I can assure you that on September 11, you will not see a bonfire of Qurans being burned at the Dove Church," Imam Mahdi Bray, head of the Muslim-American Society, told reporters.
He said he has just returned from Gainesville, where city officials told him Jones will not receive a burn permit and any sort of incendiary material will violate the city code. A fire truck will be nearby to douse any flames, he said.
Gainesville Mayor Craig Lowe said Jones' requests for burn permits have been denied, and city officials hope that he will comply. If he breaks the law, action can be taken against Jones, with the response based on whatever the infraction might be, he said. Lowe has declared Saturday "Interfaith Solidarity Day."
City Communications Manager Bob Woods said the city will tally up costs related to the event and present Jones with the bill.
Alachua County Sheriff's Office spokesman Art Forgey says " we do plan to compile and send a bill to Mr Jones."
"I don't know that we have the teeth to enforce it, though" Forgey added. Instead, the bill may just end up being a statement to Jones about how much the event cost local citizens, the spokesman said.
The Gainesville Students for a Democratic Society said Thursday it will bus in students from as far away as Chicago, Illinois, and will have about 600 on hand Saturday to protest at a nearby park, then march to the church to picket the event.
Meanwhile, two websites associated with Jones and his church were down Thursday.
Rackspace Hosting took down the two sites because the church "violated the hate speech provision of our acceptable use policy," said spokesman Dan Goodgame.
The company investigated a complaint in the past couple days and made the determination after reviewing both sites, said Goodgame, adding that Rackspace was under no pressure to act.
"This is not a constitutional issue. This is a contract issue," he said.
Where are jihadist Muslims being appeased? And which laws do we have that are anything remotely close to Sharia? I don't think anyone is suggesting that. I am talking about seperation of Church and State...for everyone....Christian, Muslims, Hindus, Buhdists, etc. etc. I am suggesting that no one single religion should dictiate to everyone else what the laws should be or what moral standards we should live by. Let's say we do have Christian law. How would that then make us any different then any country (like many in the Middle East) that have a dictatorship based on religious rule? I do not want to live under Evangelical Christian laws. I am a Christian, but not an Evangelical Christian. I and many like me want to have the LAW remain pro choice. We want gay people to have equal rights and we want all religions and cultures residing in our countries to be equal. It's just so simple. No one is attacking Christianity or taking away their rights. What rights have been removed? Name a single one? Prayer in school? Many Christians don't want that in the PUBLIC school system either. You cannot have a country that professes freedom being free for only one group of people. Can't have it both ways..just doesn't work that way.
I am more then aware what the foundations of our countries are. But if we wanted to be completely honest, we should all be living according to Aboriginal standards and laws..they were here first. Before founding fathers or consitiutions or anything. So should we do that?
My issue is with the fact that neither of our countries are purely European background, Evangelical Christian based. They just aren't. So yes, all should be taken into consideration when determining how public schools are run, etc. I have heard it said on this group that if "they" don't like it (meaning non Christian Americans or Canadians) "they" should send their children to private schools. Well, there are lots of Christian private schools out there as well.
I suppose my comments make me anti Christian, or intolerant..lol. Ok. Whatever.
I am more then aware what the foundations of our countries are. But if we wanted to be completely honest, we should all be living according to Aboriginal standards and laws..they were here first. Before founding fathers or consitiutions or anything. So should we do that?
My issue is with the fact that neither of our countries are purely European background, Evangelical Christian based. They just aren't. So yes, all should be taken into consideration when determining how public schools are run, etc. I have heard it said on this group that if "they" don't like it (meaning non Christian Americans or Canadians) "they" should send their children to private schools. Well, there are lots of Christian private schools out there as well.
I suppose my comments make me anti Christian, or intolerant..lol. Ok. Whatever.
The truth of the matter is that all Western civilizations are based on the Christian Judeo ethics. Most of our law is based on English Common law. As is Canada's. Some states have French or Spanish law mixed in.
So are you suggesting that we turn our Western values up on their ear in order to appease jihadist Muslims? I for one do not want anything to do with the laws of most Middle Eastern countries. I'd bet most in the West would feel the same way.
So are you suggesting that we turn our Western values up on their ear in order to appease jihadist Muslims? I for one do not want anything to do with the laws of most Middle Eastern countries. I'd bet most in the West would feel the same way.
My point was this: should a countries laws be based on one belief system? No one can tell anyone else what to believe...we are living in free countries. But should the laws be based on one belief system?
As for the Bible...like any other religious book, it all comes down to interpretation. And your right...none of us know the true context. But what we choose to teach our children is personal...it was not intended as an insult.
As for the Bible...like any other religious book, it all comes down to interpretation. And your right...none of us know the true context. But what we choose to teach our children is personal...it was not intended as an insult.
Much of the Bible I don't interpret literally myself. But some of it comes from misunderstandings from the time it was written and now. Such as this:
Matthew 5:39
But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Turning the LEFT cheek was an insult. Jesus was NOT saying take and let him hit you again.
So interpreting it literally today can be a dangerous thing if you don't understand the mores of the ancient world.
As for love the sinner, hate the sin. Yes, I've taught my children that they can still love someone but hate what they do. And I"ve also taught them to always think how they'd feel if they were treated the way they treated others. Usually that was quite enough to bring them to tears and nothing more needed saying. Lesson learned. If someone thinks the way I teach them is the wrong way, too bad so sad. Because I have very thoughtful polite children.
As for Islam, I don't hate Muslims. I hate jihadists. And keep in mind that there are 2 types of jihad. One violent. One not, but just as efficient. Why don't you check out this website:
http://www.weeklyblitz.net/824/the-mosque-and-media-conquest-of-islam
this directly addresses the Imam in question.
And Muslims should be treated as all Americans should be. And held to the same standards. Did you read my post on a Moderate American Muslims questions to the Imam Rauf? on this forum. Maybe you should.
Sara
Matthew 5:39
But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Turning the LEFT cheek was an insult. Jesus was NOT saying take and let him hit you again.
So interpreting it literally today can be a dangerous thing if you don't understand the mores of the ancient world.
As for love the sinner, hate the sin. Yes, I've taught my children that they can still love someone but hate what they do. And I"ve also taught them to always think how they'd feel if they were treated the way they treated others. Usually that was quite enough to bring them to tears and nothing more needed saying. Lesson learned. If someone thinks the way I teach them is the wrong way, too bad so sad. Because I have very thoughtful polite children.
As for Islam, I don't hate Muslims. I hate jihadists. And keep in mind that there are 2 types of jihad. One violent. One not, but just as efficient. Why don't you check out this website:
http://www.weeklyblitz.net/824/the-mosque-and-media-conquest-of-islam
this directly addresses the Imam in question.
And Muslims should be treated as all Americans should be. And held to the same standards. Did you read my post on a Moderate American Muslims questions to the Imam Rauf? on this forum. Maybe you should.
Sara
I absolutely respect the fact that you feel that way. I truly truly do. And if you feel or believe this is a sin, then that is your right and you can live and bring your children up the way you choose to. I really mean that..no sarcasm. The problem is, not everyone feels that way. So now we are back to one religion dictating the laws...see the dilema? And even within Christianity there are differences. For example, I am a Christian and do my best to live my life accordingly. However, I do not believe in literal interpretation of the Bible. So now even within our own belief system there are differences, so whose do they base laws on? How I feel about some of these issues personally is irrelevant...it's whats fair for all and just for all that matters.
Sara...I think the pastor is brilliant...he got more free marketing for his Church through this stunt (and I now believe it was a stunt) then millions of dollars in marketing could have bought him. He's crazy...but crazy like a fox!
Sara...I think the pastor is brilliant...he got more free marketing for his Church through this stunt (and I now believe it was a stunt) then millions of dollars in marketing could have bought him. He's crazy...but crazy like a fox!
I'm with you, Sarah.
It's a scary, uncertain world we live in right now. That's why I'm just trying to keep my eyes fixed on the only one I know who can keep me safe.
It's a scary, uncertain world we live in right now. That's why I'm just trying to keep my eyes fixed on the only one I know who can keep me safe.
Amen! Love the sinner. Hate the sin. It's like when my kids were little. I would tell them how much I loved them but how much I didn't like what the did. Separate the action from the person. And I am one who feels Christianity is under attack. Yes, some have done some despicable acts in the name of Jesus. The protests and flag burning by that Baptist church at soldier's funerals for one. They do not represent the majority of Christians. Just as jihadists do not represent the majority of Muslims.
But getting back to the Qaran burning, I don't know if this self proclaimed pastor is a genius or a nut job. He brilliantly illuminated the difference between Christianity and Islam. When the Bible was burned, there were no threats, veiled or otherwise. Just disappointment and prayer. Just threaten to burn the Qaran (not actually do it) and here come the death threats and protests worldwide. I don't think he meant to show this difference so well but he did. And all from a self proclaimed pastor with a congregation of less than 50. Amazing world we live in.
But getting back to the Qaran burning, I don't know if this self proclaimed pastor is a genius or a nut job. He brilliantly illuminated the difference between Christianity and Islam. When the Bible was burned, there were no threats, veiled or otherwise. Just disappointment and prayer. Just threaten to burn the Qaran (not actually do it) and here come the death threats and protests worldwide. I don't think he meant to show this difference so well but he did. And all from a self proclaimed pastor with a congregation of less than 50. Amazing world we live in.
"They say God gave us free will, so I have to laugh at stupid people, who think they know better than God or try to correct God, by saying gays are bad, or Muslims are bad, or we should take away government help for the needy, and all the other things they say. I'm sorry to say, but so many that say they are Christian, just sound sooooo unChristian and hypocritical. "
flagmagi, not here to argue with you or change the subject but it's God who said homosexuality was a sin. Christians didn't make it up. So, if you have a beef with it, maybe you should take that up with God instead of blaming "stupid Christians".
It's not just in the Old Testament as some like to claim, saying it no longer applies. It's also in the New Testament. Here are just two scriptures pertaining to homosexuality but there are many others. Does this mean we are to hate any person, no matter what sin they are caught up in? Of course not, we are to love them. Something people get very confused about is thinking Christians hate the person when God instructs us to hate the sin, or act, not the person. You really can seperate the two.
These are just two scriptures of what GOD says:
If we are going to call ourselves Christians then we can't just pick and choose what scriptures we like and ignore the rest. And yes, there are scriptures that we may not like but it's God's word, not something stupid Christians made up.
Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." (NIV)
Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." (NIV)
I'm not sure how much clearer God can get than that but of course if a person is caught up in sin then they don't want to see that and will argue till the sun goes down. I'm not here to argue, only wanted to show you what God himself said.
I'm tired of people saying Christians are hateful because of this or that, just because they follow the bible and take God at his word. Like I said, God says we are to love all people but hate sin, that includes sin in our own lives.
I'm sure this will get deleted but I hope not before you get a chance to see it because I really think it's unfair to call people stupid because they follow the word of God. Like I said, it was God who said these things, people didn't make it up. And yes, it really is possible to love the person but not the act.
flagmagi, not here to argue with you or change the subject but it's God who said homosexuality was a sin. Christians didn't make it up. So, if you have a beef with it, maybe you should take that up with God instead of blaming "stupid Christians".
It's not just in the Old Testament as some like to claim, saying it no longer applies. It's also in the New Testament. Here are just two scriptures pertaining to homosexuality but there are many others. Does this mean we are to hate any person, no matter what sin they are caught up in? Of course not, we are to love them. Something people get very confused about is thinking Christians hate the person when God instructs us to hate the sin, or act, not the person. You really can seperate the two.
These are just two scriptures of what GOD says:
If we are going to call ourselves Christians then we can't just pick and choose what scriptures we like and ignore the rest. And yes, there are scriptures that we may not like but it's God's word, not something stupid Christians made up.
Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." (NIV)
Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." (NIV)
I'm not sure how much clearer God can get than that but of course if a person is caught up in sin then they don't want to see that and will argue till the sun goes down. I'm not here to argue, only wanted to show you what God himself said.
I'm tired of people saying Christians are hateful because of this or that, just because they follow the bible and take God at his word. Like I said, God says we are to love all people but hate sin, that includes sin in our own lives.
I'm sure this will get deleted but I hope not before you get a chance to see it because I really think it's unfair to call people stupid because they follow the word of God. Like I said, it was God who said these things, people didn't make it up. And yes, it really is possible to love the person but not the act.
Australia is a wonderful country. Many Canadians make travelling there part of their agenda at some point and time. I am told the people that live there are fabulous and very hospitable. I have not yet had the pleasure of going there, but I will!
Canada is one country that did not go to Iraq. We took an incredible amount of flak for it...even some veiled threats, but we held our ground, and to be truthful, I fully support the decision not to go. We are in Afghanistan though, and have been since the beginning. I am proud of our troops.
I 100% agree that religion and politics are a dangerous mix. There are many countries still in the world governed by religious beliefs, and most of us would not want to live there.
Back on track a bit about the beginning of this thread....did anyone else see the special on last night about the New Jihadists (on CNN). Talked about where Bin Laden fits into things today, and other "top radicals" and where they come from, recruitment, etc. It was interesting and quite eye opening. Several moderate Imam's were interviewed, and it seems the general theme is that more then anything, Islam is at war internally...moderates and radicals. They also talked about the belief some have that the US is at war with Islam and it made sense. What we see on TV is all the negative stuff...the radicals in the Middle East burning the flag, chanting threats against the US, etc. So many tend to begin to believe that belief system encompasses all of the MIddle East. Well, what they see on TV is some of the radical stuff that can happen here...the Mosque burning, threats to burn the Qaran, etc. so they begin to think the same thing...that alll Westerners hate Islam. Makes sense if you think about. The media isn't going to report on the peaceful folks on both sides that just go about their daily lives...they report on the radical stuff.
Canada is one country that did not go to Iraq. We took an incredible amount of flak for it...even some veiled threats, but we held our ground, and to be truthful, I fully support the decision not to go. We are in Afghanistan though, and have been since the beginning. I am proud of our troops.
I 100% agree that religion and politics are a dangerous mix. There are many countries still in the world governed by religious beliefs, and most of us would not want to live there.
Back on track a bit about the beginning of this thread....did anyone else see the special on last night about the New Jihadists (on CNN). Talked about where Bin Laden fits into things today, and other "top radicals" and where they come from, recruitment, etc. It was interesting and quite eye opening. Several moderate Imam's were interviewed, and it seems the general theme is that more then anything, Islam is at war internally...moderates and radicals. They also talked about the belief some have that the US is at war with Islam and it made sense. What we see on TV is all the negative stuff...the radicals in the Middle East burning the flag, chanting threats against the US, etc. So many tend to begin to believe that belief system encompasses all of the MIddle East. Well, what they see on TV is some of the radical stuff that can happen here...the Mosque burning, threats to burn the Qaran, etc. so they begin to think the same thing...that alll Westerners hate Islam. Makes sense if you think about. The media isn't going to report on the peaceful folks on both sides that just go about their daily lives...they report on the radical stuff.
Take the million Iraqi deaths with a grain of salt. You've got to figure in all of the radicals that are blowing themselves and other Iraqis up. Its horribly unfortunate, but that area of the world has been in turmoil for ever..... religious beliefs have seperated those people, and the dying has been happening for hundreds of years.
I can tell you without a doubt, that if all American and Allied troops vacated Iraq, you would still have Iraqi's killing Iraqis.....it *****, but thats the way it is.
I can tell you without a doubt, that if all American and Allied troops vacated Iraq, you would still have Iraqi's killing Iraqis.....it *****, but thats the way it is.
In my opinion, we've got to keep religion out of politics. Religion is one thing, politics is something completely different. What we can take from all religions and institute into politics is the morals.
Tolerance should be at the forefront. We are all different, and the majority of us all want the same things. Regardless of religion, we all want to be able to earn a fair wage for a hard days work, we wnat to be able to take care of our families, we want freedom to say what we want without persecution, we all want to be able to feed and cloth our families....we all want to be treated fairly, judged justly. Regardless of religion, the majority of people in this country feel along those lines.
It is the hard line of politics that seperate/divide us. Intolerance of others beliefs, religious or otherwise is what will continue to keep politics in the sewer. Listen to a lot of the people in the news preaching about tolerance. Quite often, they sound like the least tolerant!
Tolerance should be at the forefront. We are all different, and the majority of us all want the same things. Regardless of religion, we all want to be able to earn a fair wage for a hard days work, we wnat to be able to take care of our families, we want freedom to say what we want without persecution, we all want to be able to feed and cloth our families....we all want to be treated fairly, judged justly. Regardless of religion, the majority of people in this country feel along those lines.
It is the hard line of politics that seperate/divide us. Intolerance of others beliefs, religious or otherwise is what will continue to keep politics in the sewer. Listen to a lot of the people in the news preaching about tolerance. Quite often, they sound like the least tolerant!
There are quite a few countries helping in the Iraki effort. I read that to date over a million iraki people have been killed as a result of this occupation.
http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/1-over-one-million-iraqi-deaths-caused-by-us-occupation/
All cause we were looking for weapons of mass destruction. Were not those terrorists responsible for 9/11 from Saudi Arabia? Most of em I will say. Was not Bin Laden in Afghanistan at that time? I am trying to get a handle on the timeline here.
http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/1-over-one-million-iraqi-deaths-caused-by-us-occupation/
All cause we were looking for weapons of mass destruction. Were not those terrorists responsible for 9/11 from Saudi Arabia? Most of em I will say. Was not Bin Laden in Afghanistan at that time? I am trying to get a handle on the timeline here.
I'd just like to say the US and Canada are not the only countries that are built on free speech,tolerance and acceptance of all people,Australia is also governed with these beliefs at the forefront of our decision making,
Our soldiers are also fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan alongside US troops,we have lost 21 young men fighting for freedom in Afghanistan,four in the last month.I just want people to realise there are other countries around the world also fighting for freedom.
I would also like to mention that we have faired quite well through the global economic crisis,our unemployment rate is at it's lowest in years with only 5.1% unemployed,the Australian dollar is 92 cents to the US dollar which is the highest it has been in years and through good government strategies we averted been put into recession,Our economy is doing really well.
I feel blessed to be born in a country that believes in freedom for all,I'm a proud Australian,
Denise
.
Our soldiers are also fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan alongside US troops,we have lost 21 young men fighting for freedom in Afghanistan,four in the last month.I just want people to realise there are other countries around the world also fighting for freedom.
I would also like to mention that we have faired quite well through the global economic crisis,our unemployment rate is at it's lowest in years with only 5.1% unemployed,the Australian dollar is 92 cents to the US dollar which is the highest it has been in years and through good government strategies we averted been put into recession,Our economy is doing really well.
I feel blessed to be born in a country that believes in freedom for all,I'm a proud Australian,
Denise
.
I have often thought about all the millions of people spread across this earth, and I was blessed to be born here! I think God (whatever God you believe) has really blessed those that were born to the US and Canada, and the reason, IMO, is because of the belief in freedom, tolerance and acceptance of all gods children, no matter what they personally believe. God knew we would stand strong for the freedoms he wanted for all humans.
They say God gave us free will, so I have to laugh at stupid people, who think they know better than God or try to correct God, by saying gays are bad, or Muslims are bad, or we should take away government help for the needy, and all the other things they say. I'm sorry to say, but so many that say they are Christian, just sound sooooo unChristian and hypocritical.
They say God gave us free will, so I have to laugh at stupid people, who think they know better than God or try to correct God, by saying gays are bad, or Muslims are bad, or we should take away government help for the needy, and all the other things they say. I'm sorry to say, but so many that say they are Christian, just sound sooooo unChristian and hypocritical.
I actually think that is one of the reasons there is such a huge divide between the right and the left. I also think that is why there is such intense dislike of Obama. The right talks about fighting for America, and how the left and Obama don't like America, etc. And I really think that's the crux of it. The right is fighting for Christian America. The left and Obama are fighting for everyone's America. So huge divide, depending on what you believe. And that is really where the decision lies isn't it. Where do you want to live? In Christian America, or a country that is equal and fair to everyone! I mean, look at the issues...gay rights/marriage (against is based on biblical beliefs), etc.
And you are sure right...you cannot compare countries like the US and Canada to other countries....we are completely free. They are not. That is why people immigrate. They want those same freedoms and opportunities. For me that is flattering.
And you are sure right...you cannot compare countries like the US and Canada to other countries....we are completely free. They are not. That is why people immigrate. They want those same freedoms and opportunities. For me that is flattering.
I really think you hit the nail on the head. I've heard to many times that the US is a "Christian Nation" and the complaints that prayer has been taken out of school and Christian symbols are removed from government, etc. I consider myself a Christian in a multi denominational country. Why should Christian prayer be pushed on everyone in schools? Why not Jewish prayer in all schools? Or Islam, or Buhdism? The same with Christian symbols everywhere. Why don't we put "in Allah we trust" on our money?
Why? Because in this country religion or lack of, is a personal choice and freedom. We do not force any one religion on anyone. We are suppose to accept all religions and defend that freedom of choice. If we don't, we would be called Iran or Pakistan. Should we act like them because they are intolerant? Are we going to be just like them? Are we going to continue to act like children saying " I hit him because he called me a name"! The United States is suppose to be a leader, a civilized nation, a nation that leads by example.
I can't believe some of the talk about "Why do we let these other countries burn our Bibles and our flags etc.?" Because they are not the United States, they are third world countries, their governments are run by religious leaders.
I think what I hear from some of the people here and out in the real world is severe anger, hatred and confusion as to what the United States is suppose to stand for. The hatred and lies that some people keep pushing is worse than pathetic.
Why? Because in this country religion or lack of, is a personal choice and freedom. We do not force any one religion on anyone. We are suppose to accept all religions and defend that freedom of choice. If we don't, we would be called Iran or Pakistan. Should we act like them because they are intolerant? Are we going to be just like them? Are we going to continue to act like children saying " I hit him because he called me a name"! The United States is suppose to be a leader, a civilized nation, a nation that leads by example.
I can't believe some of the talk about "Why do we let these other countries burn our Bibles and our flags etc.?" Because they are not the United States, they are third world countries, their governments are run by religious leaders.
I think what I hear from some of the people here and out in the real world is severe anger, hatred and confusion as to what the United States is suppose to stand for. The hatred and lies that some people keep pushing is worse than pathetic.
There was a great distrust of Jews in many parts of pre war Europe. Not necessarily hate, but distrust. They were sort of the scapegoat for everything..economic challenges, and of course not believing that Jesus was the messiah was something many couldn't understand. So Hitler (who many believe was actually Jewish himself) used that to turn much of that distrust to hatred. As I believe Sara said earlier, it only takes a small minority to start something like this..and can it ever escalate.
Scary to think of...millions were killed, for no other reason then that they were Jewish. Mind boggling and sickening.
I will read that book. I enjoy stories like that. Thanks for the recommendation.
Scary to think of...millions were killed, for no other reason then that they were Jewish. Mind boggling and sickening.
I will read that book. I enjoy stories like that. Thanks for the recommendation.
Sorry, I meant to say millions not thousands. He wiped out millions of Jews.
Man, I've been misspelling and using bad grammer today! Guess I should get off. I've had a headache that's gotten steadily worse this evening. Good night, all.
Man, I've been misspelling and using bad grammer today! Guess I should get off. I've had a headache that's gotten steadily worse this evening. Good night, all.
The Jews were one of the most persecuted religions of all. :( Amazing how one man (Hitler) could wipe out thousands of Jews. I hope to God nothing like that ever happens again but it shows you how quickly these things can happen and how people can blindly follow things they wouldn't normally do. I never did understand why all those soldiers blindly followed and downright worshiped that man and did atrocities they may never have thought up on their own.
If you ever get the chance, read Corrie Ten Boom's book "The Hiding Place". She and her family, who were Christian, hid and helped many Jews escape until they were found and thrown in a concentration camp.
If that happened today would any of us be willing to risk our lives for another? I would hope I could do the same.
By the way, I'd join you in that Utopia! I've been saying I wanted to find a deserted island, lol, and low and behold saw on the news they actually have deserted islands for sale!
Since most of us don't have that kind of money, guess we just will have to learn to get along, huh. :o)
Peace.
If you ever get the chance, read Corrie Ten Boom's book "The Hiding Place". She and her family, who were Christian, hid and helped many Jews escape until they were found and thrown in a concentration camp.
If that happened today would any of us be willing to risk our lives for another? I would hope I could do the same.
By the way, I'd join you in that Utopia! I've been saying I wanted to find a deserted island, lol, and low and behold saw on the news they actually have deserted islands for sale!
Since most of us don't have that kind of money, guess we just will have to learn to get along, huh. :o)
Peace.
Well, I agree with you and don't like that stuff either. I find the mocking of any religion to be in very poor taste. In all honesty my friend, I wish everyone could just respect others and their beliefs when it comes to culture and religion. We don't have to agree with each other, but if we could just respect it. And not paint everyone with the same paintbrush....all Christians do not behave in a Christian fashion, all Muslims do not behave according to what moderates say are the true teachings, many call themselves Buddists, but will still behave violently, so on and so on. It goes on on every side and in every religion, and it's a shame. In my opinion, anyone that hates because of religion, disrespects another because of religion, or kills in the name of religion is not a true religious person.
This has been going on for so long. There is still much anti Jewish sentiment out there and synagogues are spray painted on. I just heard a story about a Christian cemetary being vandalized. It just goes on and on. I think the best thing we can do as Christians is hold true to our faith, not let it turn us against each other and to see people as the individuals they are, regardless of how we feel about their faith. Sigh, back to my Utopia...I really like it there!
This has been going on for so long. There is still much anti Jewish sentiment out there and synagogues are spray painted on. I just heard a story about a Christian cemetary being vandalized. It just goes on and on. I think the best thing we can do as Christians is hold true to our faith, not let it turn us against each other and to see people as the individuals they are, regardless of how we feel about their faith. Sigh, back to my Utopia...I really like it there!
In Australian schools now our children are being taught Aboriginal studies,which also includes learning about the Aboriginal Dreamtime which is their belief in how the world and the creatures of the Earth were created.I look at it this way,I might not believe in the Dreamtime but this is their country that the British invaded(sorry discovered)and we should learn more about the original inhabitants of this great land. But they are not taught religious studies in school,it doesn't bother me because I taught my children religious values myself I didn't leave it up to someone else to teach them.
I guess what I notice the most is the mocking of Christianity on our TV shows and elsewhere and nothing is done and if we try to defend it we're told it's no big deal. But no one seems to dare mocking any other religion the same way they do Christians. Like I mentioned before, the cross in the jar of urine and other blatant acts of disrespect and desecration of things Christians deem holy. It's ok to slander and curse the name of Jesus. I'm guessing it's because they feel they can do these things because we aren't going to attack people every time they do it but even if we do protest it doesn't seem like it's taken seriously. Like that cartoon that comedy central was going to do about Jesus and it was very disrespectful. I guess enough Christians must have finally stood up and protested because I don't think they did air that show but I've seen other shows that mock Christianity and Jesus.
Maybe that's it, maybe more Christians need to take a stand and not let their religion be so desecrated. It just seems like it's one religion that people on TV, etc., like to make fun of. I just wish people would leave people alone and be more respectful.
We should all look out for each other. I heard one time of a Jewish family who had their menorah stolen out of their window and when they put up another one it was stolen too so all the neighbors rallied together and decided to put Menorahs in all their windows. That really touched me.
Maybe that's it, maybe more Christians need to take a stand and not let their religion be so desecrated. It just seems like it's one religion that people on TV, etc., like to make fun of. I just wish people would leave people alone and be more respectful.
We should all look out for each other. I heard one time of a Jewish family who had their menorah stolen out of their window and when they put up another one it was stolen too so all the neighbors rallied together and decided to put Menorahs in all their windows. That really touched me.
I am trying to find a way to say this as I don't intend it to be taken negatively. And I am pretty sure I will be jumped all over here, but here I go anyway...
Countries like the US and Canada have been built on immigration. Whether your family has been here hundreds of years, or you are first generation, we all came from somewhere else. When that happens, you have multiculturalism. So it's not that Christianity is being dumped on, at least not here or the US, it's that it is being treated the same way as every other religion represented in the US and Canada...equally. No better, no worse. In my opinion public schools should not teach one faith over the other...I wouldn't like it if they taught Buddasim, and I wouldn't like it if they teach Christianity. I am considering sending my son to a Christian school, but I want that to be MY decision. In order to have Christian prayer in schools, you need to be a Christian only country, and your not. Perhaps you were founded on those principals, but you just aren't a Christian only country. I just don't see any rights being removed from us. I attend the Church of my choice (especially since there are so many different types of Churches and Christian denominations). If I was no religion at all, I would not like my son having to participate in prayer at school. Some things belong in the home. That is not anti Christian, but it is part of having equal rights. Equal rights cannot be equal for some, and not for others. I really think part of the whole problem right now is that for many many many years, Christianity has been dominant in the US (and here as well). Our religion and our beliefs are not going away. No one is saying we cannot practice as we see fit. There is no loss of freedom of religion here, sorry. There are no loss of rights.
Countries like the US and Canada have been built on immigration. Whether your family has been here hundreds of years, or you are first generation, we all came from somewhere else. When that happens, you have multiculturalism. So it's not that Christianity is being dumped on, at least not here or the US, it's that it is being treated the same way as every other religion represented in the US and Canada...equally. No better, no worse. In my opinion public schools should not teach one faith over the other...I wouldn't like it if they taught Buddasim, and I wouldn't like it if they teach Christianity. I am considering sending my son to a Christian school, but I want that to be MY decision. In order to have Christian prayer in schools, you need to be a Christian only country, and your not. Perhaps you were founded on those principals, but you just aren't a Christian only country. I just don't see any rights being removed from us. I attend the Church of my choice (especially since there are so many different types of Churches and Christian denominations). If I was no religion at all, I would not like my son having to participate in prayer at school. Some things belong in the home. That is not anti Christian, but it is part of having equal rights. Equal rights cannot be equal for some, and not for others. I really think part of the whole problem right now is that for many many many years, Christianity has been dominant in the US (and here as well). Our religion and our beliefs are not going away. No one is saying we cannot practice as we see fit. There is no loss of freedom of religion here, sorry. There are no loss of rights.
That's what I was trying to say, that Christians are losing more and more rights but no one seems to care or notice or they say we brought it upon ourselves because we aren't treating other religions right. I disagree. Christianity is probably one of the most tolerant of all religions and have suffered silently for a long time. Madalyn Murray O'Hare started the ball rolling, alright. And things have only gone downhill since.
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