Aa
McCain missing the real point.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/17/john-mccain-background-checks_n_2706927.html
Here we go again. More politicians missing the point again. My question to these mental midgets is, how are you going to get criminals to go through these background checks?
Here we go again. More politicians missing the point again. My question to these mental midgets is, how are you going to get criminals to go through these background checks?
Again, how are back ground checks going to work amongst gang members who simply pass guns around? (They aren't and were not even talking about how to get illegally owned guns off the streets. It's like it doesn't matter. "Just make sure that every legal, law abiding citizen has a hard time getting guns.... that'll be helpful.")
This is just something we'll have to agree to disagree on:)...no biggie!
"Has anyone actually seen the wording of the President's version of the bill he wants passed? If there's a link to the President's entire proposed bill, I'd sure like to see it. Last I read, there was no "final" version. "
This is what I could find....It may not be good enough because its not the "final" version but it has enough info...
The President in his own words
http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/preventing-gun-violence
Flanked by four children from across the country, President Obama today unveiled a sweeping plan to curb gun violence in America through an extensive package of legislation and executive actions not seen since the 1960s.
Obama is asking Congress to implement mandatory background checks for all gun purchases, including private sales; reinstate a ban on some assault-style weapons; ban high-capacity magazines holding more than 10 rounds; and crackdown on illicit weapons trafficking.
The president's proposal also includes new initiatives for school safety, including a call for more federal aid to states for hiring so-called school resource officers (police), counselors and psychologists, and improved access to mental health care.
Obama also initiated 23 executive actions on gun violence, policy directives not needing congressional approval. Among them is a directive to federal agencies to beef up the national criminal background-check system and a memorandum lifting a freeze on gun violence research at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
"I intend to use whatever weight this office holds to make them a reality," Obama said at a midday event in a White House auditorium. "If there's even one thing that we can do to reduce this violence, if there's even one life that can be saved, then we have an obligation to try.
"And I'm going to do my part."
The announcement comes one month after a mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., left 26 dead, including 20 children. Obama called it the worst moment of his presidency and promised "meaningful action" in response.
The proposals were the work of an Obama-appointed task force, led by Vice President Joe Biden, that held 22 meetings on gun violence in the past three weeks. The group received input from more than 220 organizations and dozens of elected officials, a senior administration official said.
As part of the push, Obama nominated a new director for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, which leads enforcement of federal gun laws and has been without a confirmed director for six years. The president appointed acting director Todd Jones, the U.S. attorney for Minnesota, to the post, if the Senate confirms him.
The administration's plan calls for aid to states for the hiring of more school resource officers, counselors and psychologists. Obama also directed the Department of Education to ensure all schools have improved emergency-response plans.
He also called on Congress to make it illegal to possess or transfer armor-piercing bullets; it's now only illegal to produce them.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/president-obama-unveils-sweeping-plan-curb-gun-violence/story?id=18228472
BTW an overwhelming majority of the American People support his proposal...but I guess that doesn't matter either
This is what I could find....It may not be good enough because its not the "final" version but it has enough info...
The President in his own words
http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/preventing-gun-violence
Flanked by four children from across the country, President Obama today unveiled a sweeping plan to curb gun violence in America through an extensive package of legislation and executive actions not seen since the 1960s.
Obama is asking Congress to implement mandatory background checks for all gun purchases, including private sales; reinstate a ban on some assault-style weapons; ban high-capacity magazines holding more than 10 rounds; and crackdown on illicit weapons trafficking.
The president's proposal also includes new initiatives for school safety, including a call for more federal aid to states for hiring so-called school resource officers (police), counselors and psychologists, and improved access to mental health care.
Obama also initiated 23 executive actions on gun violence, policy directives not needing congressional approval. Among them is a directive to federal agencies to beef up the national criminal background-check system and a memorandum lifting a freeze on gun violence research at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
"I intend to use whatever weight this office holds to make them a reality," Obama said at a midday event in a White House auditorium. "If there's even one thing that we can do to reduce this violence, if there's even one life that can be saved, then we have an obligation to try.
"And I'm going to do my part."
The announcement comes one month after a mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., left 26 dead, including 20 children. Obama called it the worst moment of his presidency and promised "meaningful action" in response.
The proposals were the work of an Obama-appointed task force, led by Vice President Joe Biden, that held 22 meetings on gun violence in the past three weeks. The group received input from more than 220 organizations and dozens of elected officials, a senior administration official said.
As part of the push, Obama nominated a new director for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, which leads enforcement of federal gun laws and has been without a confirmed director for six years. The president appointed acting director Todd Jones, the U.S. attorney for Minnesota, to the post, if the Senate confirms him.
The administration's plan calls for aid to states for the hiring of more school resource officers, counselors and psychologists. Obama also directed the Department of Education to ensure all schools have improved emergency-response plans.
He also called on Congress to make it illegal to possess or transfer armor-piercing bullets; it's now only illegal to produce them.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/president-obama-unveils-sweeping-plan-curb-gun-violence/story?id=18228472
BTW an overwhelming majority of the American People support his proposal...but I guess that doesn't matter either
"But it is..It address ALL issues, mental health, stricter trafficking laws, stricter laws of the sale by gun shop owners or gun owners themselves so the guns don't get resold on the street to the wrong person..I mean the Presidents proposal covers a wider variety of ways to crack down on gun violence..It goes way beyond the banning of AR 15's..Unfortunately, Background checks, the AR ban, and Limiting high capacity clips are all that is getting the attention...."
Has anyone actually seen the wording of the President's version of the bill he wants passed? If there's a link to the President's entire proposed bill, I'd sure like to see it. Last I read, there was no "final" version.
What I don't understand is why the President is so gung ho to get his own partisan bill done, when Congress is working on a bipartisan version that will most likely be much more palatable to the American people than something rammed down their throat via executive orders.
Has anyone actually seen the wording of the President's version of the bill he wants passed? If there's a link to the President's entire proposed bill, I'd sure like to see it. Last I read, there was no "final" version.
What I don't understand is why the President is so gung ho to get his own partisan bill done, when Congress is working on a bipartisan version that will most likely be much more palatable to the American people than something rammed down their throat via executive orders.
Respectfully, I don't see how it addresses any of the issues you bring up. Respectfully.... By and large (Columbine is a potential exemption) lawful citizens do not go to gun stores and purchase guns to give to criminals. When you are talking about guns that are in excess of $1000-$2000, people aren't giving those guns away, and anyone who spends that kind of money on a gun most often has a safe that weights about 900lbs and is anchored to the floor.... you ain't getting out of the house with that stuff.
Mental health? Again, this isn't touching it. Lawful citizens don't normally run out and buy a $1500 gun and give it to a lunatic. Trafficking? ****... we need to keep our own government from trafficking. (Fast and Furious, anyone?)
And we can't just say it is the republicans that are pro guns. The middle west is full of democrats that want their guns at all costs.
We should start with the criminals and the criminal element first, not law abiding citizens. We are so off on this....as a nation. I've never seen a more backwards approach. DUI legislation made it harder on the people convicted of DUI's, not the people who owned cars.
Mental health? Again, this isn't touching it. Lawful citizens don't normally run out and buy a $1500 gun and give it to a lunatic. Trafficking? ****... we need to keep our own government from trafficking. (Fast and Furious, anyone?)
And we can't just say it is the republicans that are pro guns. The middle west is full of democrats that want their guns at all costs.
We should start with the criminals and the criminal element first, not law abiding citizens. We are so off on this....as a nation. I've never seen a more backwards approach. DUI legislation made it harder on the people convicted of DUI's, not the people who owned cars.
"I do not understand why Washington DC is kicking around ideas that would stop me from buying a gun."
ONLY a AR...
"It is not addressing how criminals or lawless individuals can obtain the same guns with no hassle at all. That is where the frustration lies. "
But it is..It address ALL issues, mental health, stricter trafficking laws, stricter laws of the sale by gun shop owners or gun owners themselves so the guns don't get resold on the street to the wrong person..I mean the Presidents proposal covers a wider variety of ways to crack down on gun violence..It goes way beyond the banning of AR 15's..Unfortunately, Background checks, the AR ban, and Limiting high capacity clips are all that is getting the attention....
"
Why is there no talk about stiffer penalties on people who commit gun crimes? Why is there no talk about more work on the streets, to take away all of the illegal guns on the streets? There isn't a whole bunch of talk about teaching people to be more aware, doing drills in schools similar to the old "bomb raid" drills. "
I COMPLETELY agree with you that this needs to be addressed as well. One thing though is this would cost money and the repubs (in congress and backed by the NRA) would most certainly vote against it....
ONLY a AR...
"It is not addressing how criminals or lawless individuals can obtain the same guns with no hassle at all. That is where the frustration lies. "
But it is..It address ALL issues, mental health, stricter trafficking laws, stricter laws of the sale by gun shop owners or gun owners themselves so the guns don't get resold on the street to the wrong person..I mean the Presidents proposal covers a wider variety of ways to crack down on gun violence..It goes way beyond the banning of AR 15's..Unfortunately, Background checks, the AR ban, and Limiting high capacity clips are all that is getting the attention....
"
Why is there no talk about stiffer penalties on people who commit gun crimes? Why is there no talk about more work on the streets, to take away all of the illegal guns on the streets? There isn't a whole bunch of talk about teaching people to be more aware, doing drills in schools similar to the old "bomb raid" drills. "
I COMPLETELY agree with you that this needs to be addressed as well. One thing though is this would cost money and the repubs (in congress and backed by the NRA) would most certainly vote against it....
Oh, and McCain is missing a lot of everything these days. He is an old timer that I would like to see leave DC... but not if it means Tea Party.
Respectfully, I think you are taking the "gotta do something reaction" and people like my perspective on it all wrong. Speaking for myself only, I do not understand why Washington DC is kicking around ideas that would stop me from buying a gun.
All of the talk right now is about limiting citizens abilities to buy a few specific guns. It is not addressing how criminals or lawless individuals can obtain the same guns with no hassle at all. That is where the frustration lies. They want to stop me from buying an AR15, but are doing nothing about the gang bangers who own AR's, Uzi's, Mac 10's, Tech Nines..... none of that is even being talked about. That is where the frustration lies. More extensive background checks? Which criminal do you know that is going to bother with a back ground check required to buy a gun? (First I'd bet that you don't know many criminals and secondly I'd bet you know no criminals that are going to subject themselves to a back ground check.) Criminals are probably wanted for something, so the last thing they are going to do is go to a store to buy a gun. They can get a gun for a bag of weed and $100 bucks.
Why is there no talk about stiffer penalties on people who commit gun crimes? Why is there no talk about more work on the streets, to take away all of the illegal guns on the streets? There isn't a whole bunch of talk about teaching people to be more aware, doing drills in schools similar to the old "bomb raid" drills. All of the talk right now is about affecting my ability to get guns.
Waiting periods? We've done that already and it didn't affect statistics in the positive fashion they thought it would. Criminals don't have to wait to get a gun, only the law abiding citizen does when there is a waiting period.
All of the talk right now is about limiting citizens abilities to buy a few specific guns. It is not addressing how criminals or lawless individuals can obtain the same guns with no hassle at all. That is where the frustration lies. They want to stop me from buying an AR15, but are doing nothing about the gang bangers who own AR's, Uzi's, Mac 10's, Tech Nines..... none of that is even being talked about. That is where the frustration lies. More extensive background checks? Which criminal do you know that is going to bother with a back ground check required to buy a gun? (First I'd bet that you don't know many criminals and secondly I'd bet you know no criminals that are going to subject themselves to a back ground check.) Criminals are probably wanted for something, so the last thing they are going to do is go to a store to buy a gun. They can get a gun for a bag of weed and $100 bucks.
Why is there no talk about stiffer penalties on people who commit gun crimes? Why is there no talk about more work on the streets, to take away all of the illegal guns on the streets? There isn't a whole bunch of talk about teaching people to be more aware, doing drills in schools similar to the old "bomb raid" drills. All of the talk right now is about affecting my ability to get guns.
Waiting periods? We've done that already and it didn't affect statistics in the positive fashion they thought it would. Criminals don't have to wait to get a gun, only the law abiding citizen does when there is a waiting period.
As far as McCain goes, he seems to be missing the point a lot lately...
I will never understand why the "gotta do something reaction" is made to sound like a hopeless negative that is just a waste of time....
If nothing else is going to pass, they need to move along and get after something else. This is a perfect example of how and why things don't get done in DC.
Gene... the last handgun I bought was during the Brady Bill era. I had to wait 72 hours in order to pick the gun up. It was my understanding that it was simply a "waiting period" because the background check was ok'ed via phone call. As for the last rifle I purchased, I don't know if it even took 30 minutes to do the background check. Nonetheless, I passed the bugger and walked out with a new .22 for my wife.
Gene... the last handgun I bought was during the Brady Bill era. I had to wait 72 hours in order to pick the gun up. It was my understanding that it was simply a "waiting period" because the background check was ok'ed via phone call. As for the last rifle I purchased, I don't know if it even took 30 minutes to do the background check. Nonetheless, I passed the bugger and walked out with a new .22 for my wife.
Hopefully McCain is just throwing them a Bone to shut them up. They have all but conceded nothing else is going to pass.
It's been a while since I have bought a new gun but if I remember right I had to wait over 24hrs specifically for a background check. I went to a gun show the day after the CT shooting ( already planned ) and noticed people buying guns and only waiting like 30min, as the seller called in a check of some sort.
So I don't quite know what to think of this yet myself because it's just a bunch of hot air right now.
So I don't quite know what to think of this yet myself because it's just a bunch of hot air right now.
Sounds like McCain is just another talking head. Everybody knows these laws aren't going to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill or criminals, but there's that "gotta do something" reaction and I wonder if some are going for the "lesser of 2 evils" stance in order to keep outright bans out of the picture.
Registration isn't going to do a thing other than let the government know which law abiding citizens have guns, and what kinds. It's not going to address any of the hundreds of thousands of illegally owned guns in the country. Every gun I own is a legal gun.
Obviously, with registration comes fees. What will those fee's go towards?
As we were talking about in another thread, why not go directly after the criminals? (It's harder to do, that's why.) The way I see it is we keep running parallel to the real problem rather than coming up with ideas that go directly towards addressing the problem.
Obviously, with registration comes fees. What will those fee's go towards?
As we were talking about in another thread, why not go directly after the criminals? (It's harder to do, that's why.) The way I see it is we keep running parallel to the real problem rather than coming up with ideas that go directly towards addressing the problem.
I would like to see the wording before I throw my support. I don’t have a problem with Back Ground Checks (I thought it was already Law) but if it in any way has a clause for Gun Registration on previously owned guns and private sales/trades, I have a problem with it. I don’t want the Government to know how many or the types of guns I have. I don’t even know how many guns I have but I do know only one of them is Registered.
I can't believe these people use this amount of time to actually avoid addressing the real issues. Is the real issue law abiding citizens trying to obtain guns? If it is, I have really missed the bus.
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