Aa
No-Fly Zone
The British MOD grounded and began scarpping the last operational GR-9 Harriers in December 2010, leaving the Brit8ish Carrier Ark Royal with no aircraft and the British without a seaborne strike force, although the aircraft had an operational life of at least five more years.
After much dithering, America's number one golf and basketball champion decided to place United States strike aircraft under United Nations operational control to enforce a no-fly zone in Libya.
What's your opinion?
After much dithering, America's number one golf and basketball champion decided to place United States strike aircraft under United Nations operational control to enforce a no-fly zone in Libya.
What's your opinion?
I think there was an agenda in this war starting ,its not coincidence, much we are not privy to know about...There is no reason we should be involved...... humanitarian ...well try The Ivory Coast ....
It is not a matter of "pleasing people".
It is a matter of only excercising that authority granted by the United States Constitution.
There is absolutely no legal justification for the launching of one missile without approval of congress.
This war should never have been started. It is a war for the benefit of French and British oil interests.
I am not going to mention all of the places where civilians are being shot, tortured or abused. It is not possible for the United States to be a policeman for the world.
It is a matter of only excercising that authority granted by the United States Constitution.
There is absolutely no legal justification for the launching of one missile without approval of congress.
This war should never have been started. It is a war for the benefit of French and British oil interests.
I am not going to mention all of the places where civilians are being shot, tortured or abused. It is not possible for the United States to be a policeman for the world.
I support the no fly zone, but am very much against the allied forces engaging in war. I think that would be a serious mistake and would wind up pitting the middle east against the west/europe. We have to allow the citizens to make their own decisions on govt and topple this regime (and others) themselves. I am fully in support of protecting innocent lives, but not engaging in full out war. Things will get much uglier if that happens.
It is going to be interesting to see what happens with all those countries rising up against their leaders. It makes one wonder what or who will lead those areas. The whole region is becoming unstable. I think the UN did the right thing, however with that said, lets pray it is shortlived and the situation is resolved soon. My fear is that it will go on and on and we will be engaged yet again for years to come. Obama says no that in a few days the others will take over and we will fade to the background. I never heard anything negative about lybia with the exception of the tyrant they have for a leader over there. This is not our first excursion with him and from what I understand we get very little of our oil from them so it will be interesting to see for sure.
I am really disappointed in Obama for participating in this strikes - must have been pushed by some Republicans? The Libyan oil must have some appeal!!
But once again the US engages force in a Muslim country without thinking about the future. Libya may have one religions but it has several tribes, Khadafi belongs to one of these tribes... I predict major problems for the future. And contrary to Tunisia or Egypt, there is no real opposition in Libya so who is going to govern if Khadafi is out of the picture? His former ministers who are now turning against him and I am sure must be 'great' people? Big mess coming!
I went to Libya as a teenager and it was not the super awful country that is portrayed in Western countries. Khadafi is crazy and a dictator but it was a very safe country where women could wake without a veil or a burka, as well as a very rich country (oil, oil, oil).
But once again the US engages force in a Muslim country without thinking about the future. Libya may have one religions but it has several tribes, Khadafi belongs to one of these tribes... I predict major problems for the future. And contrary to Tunisia or Egypt, there is no real opposition in Libya so who is going to govern if Khadafi is out of the picture? His former ministers who are now turning against him and I am sure must be 'great' people? Big mess coming!
I went to Libya as a teenager and it was not the super awful country that is portrayed in Western countries. Khadafi is crazy and a dictator but it was a very safe country where women could wake without a veil or a burka, as well as a very rich country (oil, oil, oil).
This will shock you, but I agree with that. Just take the lunatic out. There are several countries where it's not a bad idea. Problem is, sometimes the people in line to replace them are worse. If they did take out Gahdafi like that, one of his sons would just step into place..and my understanding is at least two of them are worse then he is. The Libyans have to topple that whole regime.
I can completely understand the money worry. But I think Obama was backed into a corner on this one. He was being hammered pretty hard for his lack of action initially. Course it doesn't seem to matter..he is being hammered equally as hard now for taking action. As Teko said, he can't win. He just needs to do what he thinks is right and just and let the chips fall where they may. Narla's statement hit the nail on the head. And quite honestly, the US could have stayed out of this one...France and Britain sure have the fire power as they have shown. Plus there are what...7 other countries involved here as well. Granted the countries with smaller militaries are sending over small forces (we only sent 6 planes and 1 ship as we have a very small military), but combine them and keep in mind...Libya has almost no military to speak of, and the job would've gotten done. But I don't think there is much question the pressure was on (internally) for the US to step in. I heard it come out of McCains mouth with my own ears...he was pretty clear on the subject.
Margy...I thought we had a bit of a truce going? I would love it if that could be so. Can we agree that we just see it differently? I don't want to fight. We all have strong opinions, let's just let it be at that.
It's interesting though..when this all started, the Libyan "rebels" were pretty clear they wanted no intervention at all from anyone. It was so important to them to do this themselves. Then they asked for the no fly zone primarily because Gahdafi was bringing in mercenaries from other countries..hired guns to slaughter everyone. He was and is going after women, children, old people, he's not discriminating. So now it's only supposed to be to protect the innocent and let them all fight it out on more equal ground. If it's kept to that, I do think they can handle it on their own. And I think that's best...they overthrow and put in the gov't they want.
I can completely understand the money worry. But I think Obama was backed into a corner on this one. He was being hammered pretty hard for his lack of action initially. Course it doesn't seem to matter..he is being hammered equally as hard now for taking action. As Teko said, he can't win. He just needs to do what he thinks is right and just and let the chips fall where they may. Narla's statement hit the nail on the head. And quite honestly, the US could have stayed out of this one...France and Britain sure have the fire power as they have shown. Plus there are what...7 other countries involved here as well. Granted the countries with smaller militaries are sending over small forces (we only sent 6 planes and 1 ship as we have a very small military), but combine them and keep in mind...Libya has almost no military to speak of, and the job would've gotten done. But I don't think there is much question the pressure was on (internally) for the US to step in. I heard it come out of McCains mouth with my own ears...he was pretty clear on the subject.
Margy...I thought we had a bit of a truce going? I would love it if that could be so. Can we agree that we just see it differently? I don't want to fight. We all have strong opinions, let's just let it be at that.
It's interesting though..when this all started, the Libyan "rebels" were pretty clear they wanted no intervention at all from anyone. It was so important to them to do this themselves. Then they asked for the no fly zone primarily because Gahdafi was bringing in mercenaries from other countries..hired guns to slaughter everyone. He was and is going after women, children, old people, he's not discriminating. So now it's only supposed to be to protect the innocent and let them all fight it out on more equal ground. If it's kept to that, I do think they can handle it on their own. And I think that's best...they overthrow and put in the gov't they want.
I also do not believe we are broke. I believe its all a scam to get the people to give up everything except their hourly wage and they want to control how much you get there too. Nah! I just aint buying the "were broke", theme. There is plenty of money, it is just being redistributed is all.
El, I like the way you think and I totally agree! Mikesimon, I totally get what you are saying and understand where you come from. Each missile launched costs around 1 mil and we shot off how many? But ya know for the life of me, those tax cuts for the upper what 2% that just had to be done? Those we could not afford either, and if you remember right were non negotiable? and this mission is about saving lives and not stroking the egos of the rich, or the party.
Sorry, but honestly that is how I feel about it.
Sorry, but honestly that is how I feel about it.
Put a well trained US Marine-Corps sniper/spotter team anywhere within 1 mile of Mr. Muammar Gaddafi, and the problem is solved.
One shot.
One kill.
From what I understand, this entire situation is HIS doing.
We were able to assassinate a well liked, popular, president of the United States (JFK), cover it up nicely, AND place blame on poor ole' Lee Harvey Oswald and have the facade maintained to this day.
Surely it wouldn't be too difficult to do the same to a Middle Eastern jacka$$ that no one really likes and everyone wants dead.
Ready. Aim. Fire.
Game over and we can all go home.
One shot.
One kill.
From what I understand, this entire situation is HIS doing.
We were able to assassinate a well liked, popular, president of the United States (JFK), cover it up nicely, AND place blame on poor ole' Lee Harvey Oswald and have the facade maintained to this day.
Surely it wouldn't be too difficult to do the same to a Middle Eastern jacka$$ that no one really likes and everyone wants dead.
Ready. Aim. Fire.
Game over and we can all go home.
I think every decent human being feels for the Libyans and the Japanese and all the desperate people throughout the world.
But, we don't have the money. We just don't.
Our infrastructure is in shambles, our middles class is evaporating, people are homeless and hungry, our education system is a joke, we're struggling with our health-care but apparently we have enough money and manpower to help other countries.
It's like me at Christmas time. I have to make sure that I am secure before I go out and start spending a lot of money on gifts. I have to take care of me if I am ever to be able to take care of anyone else.
As the saying goes - Charity starts at home.
Mike
But, we don't have the money. We just don't.
Our infrastructure is in shambles, our middles class is evaporating, people are homeless and hungry, our education system is a joke, we're struggling with our health-care but apparently we have enough money and manpower to help other countries.
It's like me at Christmas time. I have to make sure that I am secure before I go out and start spending a lot of money on gifts. I have to take care of me if I am ever to be able to take care of anyone else.
As the saying goes - Charity starts at home.
Mike
Not worth answering back as the old vitriol and propaganda is rearing its ugly head,I dont mean you Narla .
When will people realise the leader of a country can never please all of the people all of the time,they can only hope to achieve pleasing most of the people most of the time.
Ya know, everyone was saying, why doesnt someone do something to intervene. I guess the fact that we had to go thru the UN escaped most? But then once we did offer help, which is what the pres did, it has been nothing but drama since. He cannot win. The objective of the mission was made very clear from the onset to those of us who actually listened to the president and not some other third party source. And there still complaining that we didnt go in soon enuff, others complaining we went in at all, others saying we declared war, and this president cannot win. Doesnt matter what he does or doesnt do it seems. Yes, I think its mean and hateful. Fox still has the people convinced the pres is on vacation and not working, never did correct that one as far as I know. They are so worried the pres actually might have a chance of getting re elected that they keep the vitro coming constantly about anything and everything. It is exhausting.
So just watching the news, and the official statement is that this whole resolution is being led by France and the UK with the US taking only a limited role. The resolution is not to engage or topple the regime, but simply to provide a no fly zone and protect innocent civilians. That is all it calls for. To me that clearly lays out the objective. The rest, for now anyway, is up to the Libyan people.
I can tell you it's not an issue here. The powers that be decided to send our fighter pilots in as well. We also have one of our ships sitting just off the coast. It's all over the news, but not in a negative way. You do whatcha got to do to protect innocent lives. I just am dumbfounded that after all the criticism he took for not acting sooner (and I am using John McCains words from an interview this morning), he goes along with the coalition and now some want to impeach him? I think I have finally come to the conclusion that as much as I try to be aware when it comes to your politics, I am never going to understand. It's just mean isn't it.
I KNOW! I think this is all based on the 1973 War Powers Act where it gives Congress the right to declare war etc, yet in other parts of the constitution it gives the President the power, so anyway, they cannot decide on the constitutionality of the act itself so its hard to enforce the darn thing. LOL , go figure. Anyways, this is going nowhere is my guess. Besides we didnt declare war. I wonder if the other countries go thru all this drama like we do and have their people constantly complaining about everything there leader does? Keeps going were gonna be the ones in a civil war. Lordy! I know some people that would be very very happy if that happened too.
I think thats sort of the point though isn't it? They are not there to finish anything - no one is. The current objective is to set up a no fly zone, which is defined as limited military action. Setting up a no fly zone is taking out key military installations on the ground. The objective is according to the plan laid out by the UN. I find this really bizarre...there was so much criticism when he did nothing, now there is when he does participate with the other countries. And the GOP were the one's critisicing him for taking no action - isn't that their official position on this?. Holy smokes, the guy can't win here can he.
I saw this plastered all over the internet but have not heard much television coverage. Watching 60 min. currently. I do know there are a group of dems who tried to impeach clinton and bush for basically the same type of thing. Not sure who they are or the particulars because frankly, there is so much drama 24/7, who can keep up with it all.
I do not know what the procedure is exactly so am unable to comment at this time. I will as usual, wait till the fog clears, all the accusations are made and then the truth will start to surface, what ever it is.
However, in the interim, I still think we did the right thing in aiding other countries in defending the civilians against this tyrant and it is my understanding the air space has been taken care of. It was never the intention of this president to topple that leader, regardless of what you hear from fox. I listened to the pres say it himself. Altho, it would not upset me if one of the other guys, assasinated the sucker.
I do not know what the procedure is exactly so am unable to comment at this time. I will as usual, wait till the fog clears, all the accusations are made and then the truth will start to surface, what ever it is.
However, in the interim, I still think we did the right thing in aiding other countries in defending the civilians against this tyrant and it is my understanding the air space has been taken care of. It was never the intention of this president to topple that leader, regardless of what you hear from fox. I listened to the pres say it himself. Altho, it would not upset me if one of the other guys, assasinated the sucker.
I also heard this today ,there really are'nt any defined objectives what will the US do , just pull out before its finished ? Obama obviously feels he is invincible and can do what he likes as he has done for over 2 years .,perhaps he has finally met his waterloo ..
Representative Nadler (D-NY) has suggested he may bring impeachment proceedings against President Obama for initiating military action without consulting congress. Nadler questioned the authority of President Obama to order such action without consultation.
He does have a point. Regardless of the merits of intervention, this is not a case where there are United States interests at stake, and the U.S. has essentially declared war on another nation.
I continue to be concerned because there are no clearly defined military objectives or aims.
He does have a point. Regardless of the merits of intervention, this is not a case where there are United States interests at stake, and the U.S. has essentially declared war on another nation.
I continue to be concerned because there are no clearly defined military objectives or aims.
DH and I are watching this all on the news right now. He put it really well..at least I got it afterward. He said that it is not the reponsibility of the world to determine who any world leader is going to be. That is up to the people of that country. So it's good the rest of the world is involved to prevent him from slaughtering those that oppose him, but with that protection in place, it is up to Libya to determine their leader, and whether or not to oust Gadhafi. We can't just go in and topple every govn't that doesn't live by our values or beliefs. This made sense to me. I think he is right.
Ok, I understand better now. And just to clarify where I was coming from..no argument, just convo. I always like to hear a different perspective then my own.
The financial end of it remains to be seen I guess. I still don't think there will be much comparison though. I mean, isn't Iraq the longest war ever? Longer then the World Wars anyway. I guess Afghanistan isn't far behind. I really think with the way it's being handled in Libya this will be over fairly quickly. I mean Libya doesn't even have a true military. Gadhafi was and is so paranoid, he essentially disbanded them. So what he has here is really a secret police run by his son. So with all the countries involved here, it shouldn't take long.
I have heard a lot of different perspectives on what we are all doing there as well. It seems the official line is not to overthrow him (they are leaving that to the Libyans). It is to stop him from slaughtering people. I get it and I don't. I think it's good in theory as this is what really amounts to civil war and should be fought within Libya. The assistance is good though..I mean, this guy was bringing in hired mercenaries from other countries to murder his own people. Scary thing is, until this all started, of the African and Middle Eastern dictators, he wasn't the worse. He was in how he treated his own people, but not in how he worked with the rest of the world. Scary. So to not put a stop to him almost allows the even crazier ones to start up....Iran anyone? Things in that part of the world are coming to a head. So as expensive as this will all be, it has been coming for a long time. I think to not show some muscle now would cost more in the long run.
The financial end of it remains to be seen I guess. I still don't think there will be much comparison though. I mean, isn't Iraq the longest war ever? Longer then the World Wars anyway. I guess Afghanistan isn't far behind. I really think with the way it's being handled in Libya this will be over fairly quickly. I mean Libya doesn't even have a true military. Gadhafi was and is so paranoid, he essentially disbanded them. So what he has here is really a secret police run by his son. So with all the countries involved here, it shouldn't take long.
I have heard a lot of different perspectives on what we are all doing there as well. It seems the official line is not to overthrow him (they are leaving that to the Libyans). It is to stop him from slaughtering people. I get it and I don't. I think it's good in theory as this is what really amounts to civil war and should be fought within Libya. The assistance is good though..I mean, this guy was bringing in hired mercenaries from other countries to murder his own people. Scary thing is, until this all started, of the African and Middle Eastern dictators, he wasn't the worse. He was in how he treated his own people, but not in how he worked with the rest of the world. Scary. So to not put a stop to him almost allows the even crazier ones to start up....Iran anyone? Things in that part of the world are coming to a head. So as expensive as this will all be, it has been coming for a long time. I think to not show some muscle now would cost more in the long run.
Everyone is missing my point. Settle down..... I am stating the obvious and perhaps teko said it best when she said "those that liked Bush hate Obama, and those that like Obama hate Bush." Bush had 2 4-year terms. I voted for him both times because I simply don't care for Kerry. I voted for Obama because Palin and McCain weren't viable choices.
I haven't cared a whole lot about Obama's handling of some things..... but I am behind him 100% here. We're already into this financially more than everyone else combined. When I say that, I am simply saying that the people who hated all of the spending Bush did in the wars, here we are in another one and you won't hear a peep out of those people. (By the way, the spending on both wars is little considering the debt handed to Obama. Congress (some democrats in congress are mad at Obama right now over this) started spending money on everything.... it's a habit congress and US politics has in general. Instead of over hauling policies and useless entities, congress throws money at it to keep it afloat. They did so this time in order to not lose more jobs on their watch.
Bottom line is, we can't take care of America and we try to be everyone's savior.... all at the cost of the American tax payer. A lot of those same tax payers are very biased.... against all spending until their guys are doing it.... then it's ok.
IMO, we should have been in Libya earlier. Gadhafi has been terrorizing his countries people for 40 years. We've had opportunity and have failed. Some guy this morning (American Military General) said that the intent of this is not to overthrow Gadhafi.... that he may be able to stay in power????? WTF? IF we're going to let him stay in power, what are we doing bombing them? Another guy on the panel said that the French may have assassination attempts in mind..... smoke and mirrors, or politics as usual. I just want to know exactly what we are trying to accomplish and why? I'd like to see the success or failure of money spent......
I haven't cared a whole lot about Obama's handling of some things..... but I am behind him 100% here. We're already into this financially more than everyone else combined. When I say that, I am simply saying that the people who hated all of the spending Bush did in the wars, here we are in another one and you won't hear a peep out of those people. (By the way, the spending on both wars is little considering the debt handed to Obama. Congress (some democrats in congress are mad at Obama right now over this) started spending money on everything.... it's a habit congress and US politics has in general. Instead of over hauling policies and useless entities, congress throws money at it to keep it afloat. They did so this time in order to not lose more jobs on their watch.
Bottom line is, we can't take care of America and we try to be everyone's savior.... all at the cost of the American tax payer. A lot of those same tax payers are very biased.... against all spending until their guys are doing it.... then it's ok.
IMO, we should have been in Libya earlier. Gadhafi has been terrorizing his countries people for 40 years. We've had opportunity and have failed. Some guy this morning (American Military General) said that the intent of this is not to overthrow Gadhafi.... that he may be able to stay in power????? WTF? IF we're going to let him stay in power, what are we doing bombing them? Another guy on the panel said that the French may have assassination attempts in mind..... smoke and mirrors, or politics as usual. I just want to know exactly what we are trying to accomplish and why? I'd like to see the success or failure of money spent......
Oh goodness, I should have clarified my comments were to brice, adgal posted in the middle of it, oops, my bad! sorry.
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