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SO PLANNED PARENTHOOD SELLS BABIES’ BODY PARTS: IS IT A SCANDAL?
As you undoubtedly know, a group called the Center for Medical Progress (CMP) has made a series of undercover videos of high-ranking Planned Parenthood officials. So far, two videos have been released. In both, representatives of CMP are negotiating to buy fetal tissue in the form of intact organs from Planned Parenthood.
The videos have caused a firestorm of controversy. Planned Parenthood has denied any wrongdoing and has denounced CMP for its campaign of “harassment” against PP. The pro-abortion lobby has fallen in behind Planned Parenthood. The New York Times editorial board issued a shrill denunciation of CMP in an editorial titled “The Campaign of Deception Against Planned Parenthood.”
***
A hidden-camera video released last week purported to show that Planned Parenthood illegally sells tissue from aborted fetuses. It shows nothing of the sort. But it is the latest in a series of unrelenting attacks on Planned Parenthood, which offers health care services to millions of people every year. …
The Center for Medical Progress video campaign is a dishonest attempt to make legal, voluntary and potentially lifesaving tissue donations appear nefarious and illegal.
***
It is hard to see how CMP’s videos could be “dishonest” or “deceptive.” They show what they show. The organization posted the videos in full on YouTube. I watched the second one, a lunch with Dr. Mary Gatter, in its entirety. It is around an hour and 13 minutes long. You can watch it here. This video, like the first one, leaves no doubt whatsoever that Planned Parenthood is in the business of selling aborted babies’ organs to private firms engaged in research. Nor does Planned Parenthood deny doing so.
The debate over the videos has centered largely on whether such sales, as carried out by Planned Parenthood, are illegal. Under federal law, 42 U.S.C. Sec. 289g-2, it is legal to give or transfer fetal tissue, but not for “valuable consideration.” “Valuable consideration” is a defined term:
The term “valuable consideration” does not include reasonable payments associated with the transportation, implantation, processing, preservation, quality control, or storage of human fetal tissue.
Abortion critics have interpreted this to mean that abortion providers can’t make a profit on the sale of fetal organs. They then point out that the charges suggested by Planned Parenthood are varied, are the subject of negotiation, and don’t seem to bear any relation to the organization’s costs. If those charges are more than necessary to cover PP’s costs, critics argue, the transactions are illegal.
I am not sure this is the correct reading of 42 U.S.C. Sec. 289g-2. The definition of “valuable consideration” merely specifies that payments must be “reasonable” and “associated with” processing, preservation, storage, etc. of fetal tissue. Might a cost not include a markup, and still be “reasonable”?
But this focus on profit and legality is, I think, misguided. The law itself doesn’t make a lot of sense: it is OK to sell fetal tissue, as long as you don’t get a very good price. This is somewhat analogous to a law making it a crime to sell heroin in schoolyards, unless you give the kids a discount. Would anyone who is horrified by the CMP’s videos be mollified to learn that PP’s costs are such that the organization is only breaking even after all? No. What we are dealing with here is not an accounting issue.
The videos are, if not horrifying, certainly troubling. The sale of various baby organs–livers and brains, for example–is discussed in the most callous manner, over lunch, mixed with business and social chatter. The virtue of intact organs is recognized, and abortion methods are tailored to preserve them to the extent possible, given the necessity of killing the baby. In that connection, Dr. Gatter refers to using a “less crunchy technique.” Just about anyone not already immersed in the world of abortion on demand would be appalled by the callousness on display, which is why Planned Parenthood, the New York Times and their allies are anxious to denounce and suppress the videos.
But that isn’t the whole story. Now that its trafficking in body parts has been exposed, Planned Parenthood claims this commerce is little short of heroic: the body parts are used in ground-breaking, life-saving medical research. This is a substantial claim, which I am not qualified to evaluate. I believe that whether fetal organs have any unique advantages in such research is hotly debated, and I have no opinion on the merits of that debate.
What seems obvious, though, is that we are paying a price for our abortion culture. Many factors contribute to the coarseness of American life, but the ubiquity of casual abortion must be one of them. It was recently reported that among African-Americans in New York City, there are more abortions than births. Surely this is both a symptom and a cause of a pervasive disrespect for human life. If anyone doubts that the abortion industry contributes to the coarseness of American culture, all I can say is: watch the videos.
I would conclude that, unless the use of aborted babies’ organs is really important to medical research–and I mean really, really important–all commerce in fetal tissue should be banned, and proper, respectful disposal of such remains should be legally mandated. If the use of aborted babies’ organs is, in fact, of great medical value, then I think the price paid for them is immaterial, but records of sales and purchases of fetal tissue should be maintained to facilitate ongoing assessment of the value of the practice. And proper disposal of fetal remains not donated for use in medical research should be mandated.
That’s enough for now. CMP apparently has quite a few more Planned Parenthood videos, some of which we will soon see. So there may be more to be said before long.
SOURCE: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/07/so-planned-parenthood-sells-babies-body-parts-is-it-a-scandal.php
The videos have caused a firestorm of controversy. Planned Parenthood has denied any wrongdoing and has denounced CMP for its campaign of “harassment” against PP. The pro-abortion lobby has fallen in behind Planned Parenthood. The New York Times editorial board issued a shrill denunciation of CMP in an editorial titled “The Campaign of Deception Against Planned Parenthood.”
***
A hidden-camera video released last week purported to show that Planned Parenthood illegally sells tissue from aborted fetuses. It shows nothing of the sort. But it is the latest in a series of unrelenting attacks on Planned Parenthood, which offers health care services to millions of people every year. …
The Center for Medical Progress video campaign is a dishonest attempt to make legal, voluntary and potentially lifesaving tissue donations appear nefarious and illegal.
***
It is hard to see how CMP’s videos could be “dishonest” or “deceptive.” They show what they show. The organization posted the videos in full on YouTube. I watched the second one, a lunch with Dr. Mary Gatter, in its entirety. It is around an hour and 13 minutes long. You can watch it here. This video, like the first one, leaves no doubt whatsoever that Planned Parenthood is in the business of selling aborted babies’ organs to private firms engaged in research. Nor does Planned Parenthood deny doing so.
The debate over the videos has centered largely on whether such sales, as carried out by Planned Parenthood, are illegal. Under federal law, 42 U.S.C. Sec. 289g-2, it is legal to give or transfer fetal tissue, but not for “valuable consideration.” “Valuable consideration” is a defined term:
The term “valuable consideration” does not include reasonable payments associated with the transportation, implantation, processing, preservation, quality control, or storage of human fetal tissue.
Abortion critics have interpreted this to mean that abortion providers can’t make a profit on the sale of fetal organs. They then point out that the charges suggested by Planned Parenthood are varied, are the subject of negotiation, and don’t seem to bear any relation to the organization’s costs. If those charges are more than necessary to cover PP’s costs, critics argue, the transactions are illegal.
I am not sure this is the correct reading of 42 U.S.C. Sec. 289g-2. The definition of “valuable consideration” merely specifies that payments must be “reasonable” and “associated with” processing, preservation, storage, etc. of fetal tissue. Might a cost not include a markup, and still be “reasonable”?
But this focus on profit and legality is, I think, misguided. The law itself doesn’t make a lot of sense: it is OK to sell fetal tissue, as long as you don’t get a very good price. This is somewhat analogous to a law making it a crime to sell heroin in schoolyards, unless you give the kids a discount. Would anyone who is horrified by the CMP’s videos be mollified to learn that PP’s costs are such that the organization is only breaking even after all? No. What we are dealing with here is not an accounting issue.
The videos are, if not horrifying, certainly troubling. The sale of various baby organs–livers and brains, for example–is discussed in the most callous manner, over lunch, mixed with business and social chatter. The virtue of intact organs is recognized, and abortion methods are tailored to preserve them to the extent possible, given the necessity of killing the baby. In that connection, Dr. Gatter refers to using a “less crunchy technique.” Just about anyone not already immersed in the world of abortion on demand would be appalled by the callousness on display, which is why Planned Parenthood, the New York Times and their allies are anxious to denounce and suppress the videos.
But that isn’t the whole story. Now that its trafficking in body parts has been exposed, Planned Parenthood claims this commerce is little short of heroic: the body parts are used in ground-breaking, life-saving medical research. This is a substantial claim, which I am not qualified to evaluate. I believe that whether fetal organs have any unique advantages in such research is hotly debated, and I have no opinion on the merits of that debate.
What seems obvious, though, is that we are paying a price for our abortion culture. Many factors contribute to the coarseness of American life, but the ubiquity of casual abortion must be one of them. It was recently reported that among African-Americans in New York City, there are more abortions than births. Surely this is both a symptom and a cause of a pervasive disrespect for human life. If anyone doubts that the abortion industry contributes to the coarseness of American culture, all I can say is: watch the videos.
I would conclude that, unless the use of aborted babies’ organs is really important to medical research–and I mean really, really important–all commerce in fetal tissue should be banned, and proper, respectful disposal of such remains should be legally mandated. If the use of aborted babies’ organs is, in fact, of great medical value, then I think the price paid for them is immaterial, but records of sales and purchases of fetal tissue should be maintained to facilitate ongoing assessment of the value of the practice. And proper disposal of fetal remains not donated for use in medical research should be mandated.
That’s enough for now. CMP apparently has quite a few more Planned Parenthood videos, some of which we will soon see. So there may be more to be said before long.
SOURCE: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/07/so-planned-parenthood-sells-babies-body-parts-is-it-a-scandal.php
Yes, agreeing to disagree is a good thing. :>) And I've got friends who are VERY pro life. Like if I didn't know them, I'd think they were koo koo pro lifers.
In truth, I really don't think planned parenthood is in the business of SELLING the fetal tissue. I think they provide science institutions this tissue for a good purpose. There may be some cost associated in the process of making the tissue ready, storage and transportation. That seems only fair to be reimbursed for that and that is not illegal. This is not like selling a good kidney for profit and duping the original kidney owner in the process. This is a process of women having an abortion, being asked if they want to donate it, making it ready to donate (possibly reimbursed for costs by the organization that needs the tissue for research or treatments) and doing so.
It's tissue. Tissue that if you aren't against abortion so this is hard to hear . . . but tissue that otherwise would end up in a trash bag. To me, that is helping a negative situation have a positive for the world.
But that is just how I see it. I think we all would be totally grossed out if we saw/knew the particulars of any type of organ or tissue removal on a corpse. Science is not pretty. And remember, first trimester abortions are such that we are talking about something that is smaller than a plum.
Again, I agree that your opinion on it is just as valid as mine.
In truth, I really don't think planned parenthood is in the business of SELLING the fetal tissue. I think they provide science institutions this tissue for a good purpose. There may be some cost associated in the process of making the tissue ready, storage and transportation. That seems only fair to be reimbursed for that and that is not illegal. This is not like selling a good kidney for profit and duping the original kidney owner in the process. This is a process of women having an abortion, being asked if they want to donate it, making it ready to donate (possibly reimbursed for costs by the organization that needs the tissue for research or treatments) and doing so.
It's tissue. Tissue that if you aren't against abortion so this is hard to hear . . . but tissue that otherwise would end up in a trash bag. To me, that is helping a negative situation have a positive for the world.
But that is just how I see it. I think we all would be totally grossed out if we saw/knew the particulars of any type of organ or tissue removal on a corpse. Science is not pretty. And remember, first trimester abortions are such that we are talking about something that is smaller than a plum.
Again, I agree that your opinion on it is just as valid as mine.
I'll say this... there are strong feelings about this on both sides. And from what I'm seeing, it doesn't floow party-lines. There are Dems that are as disgusted as some Repubs, and Repubs that are as OK with it as some Dems. It's a matter of personal preference & choice.
This is one of those agree-to-disagree type of things, and frankly, I'm okay with that.
Everyone has a right to their opinion. You yours, and me mine, so we'll leave it at that.
I don't see the actualy PRACTICE of abortion as the disturbing part... it's the sale of the organs for profit, and the "abortion sales goals" that Planned Parenthood has, that's the disturbing part. Planned Parenthood has an abortion quota, and their stuff is told to sell, sell, sell. THAT is disturbing to me.
I'm pro-choice, by the way.
This is one of those agree-to-disagree type of things, and frankly, I'm okay with that.
Everyone has a right to their opinion. You yours, and me mine, so we'll leave it at that.
I don't see the actualy PRACTICE of abortion as the disturbing part... it's the sale of the organs for profit, and the "abortion sales goals" that Planned Parenthood has, that's the disturbing part. Planned Parenthood has an abortion quota, and their stuff is told to sell, sell, sell. THAT is disturbing to me.
I'm pro-choice, by the way.
And PS, when I'm asked at the BMV, and I'm asked if I want to donate my organs to science in the event of my death, I'm not explicitly told how it is done, are you? Do they graphically explain every detail of removing organs from the human body for scientific discovery when asked if you want to donate them to science? When my mother passed away, we were asked if we wanted to donate her organs. We weren't told the exact process of how they do that.
So . . . . . . .
So . . . . . . .
Can you imagine New York city and the problems they'd have with those statistics if abortion was not available to these women? I'm thankful they have that option.
Have you had an abortion El? How would you know what they ask patients that are voluntarily there? And most women having an abortion don't see it like you do so being asked this question, do you want to donate the remains to science is not a bad question. Most would say yes, I imagine, because why wouldn't they want to do that? It's like organ donation-- for the benefit of others.
It is not a covert operation to donate remains of fetuses to science. Women having abortions do not feel about it as you do and therefore, this si not a taboo subject to broach with them.
It is not a covert operation to donate remains of fetuses to science. Women having abortions do not feel about it as you do and therefore, this si not a taboo subject to broach with them.
Just did a search for "BUY FETUS ORGANS" in Google. Quite interesting. Planned Parenthood should be extremely proud of themselves.
I read a statistic this morning, that there were more black babies ABORTED in NYC, than BORN in NYC, in 2014.
I went back and tried to pull up the article, but couldn't find it. WIll keep looking, and post if I can find it.
I thought that BLACK LIVES MATTER. I guess that doesn't include fetus's.
I read a statistic this morning, that there were more black babies ABORTED in NYC, than BORN in NYC, in 2014.
I went back and tried to pull up the article, but couldn't find it. WIll keep looking, and post if I can find it.
I thought that BLACK LIVES MATTER. I guess that doesn't include fetus's.
"patient consent"... meaning, when a woman goes in for an abortion, she's made aware that the fetus they're about to mutilate & suck out of her, could be portioned off for sale to different customers?
I'm not sure, but somehow I DON'T think that's the way it is. I'm thinking the women that go in for abortions DO NOT KNOW that the fetus is going to be torn up and sold off in pieces (to science, or otherwise).
I'm not sure, but somehow I DON'T think that's the way it is. I'm thinking the women that go in for abortions DO NOT KNOW that the fetus is going to be torn up and sold off in pieces (to science, or otherwise).
El, I'm not a dem. BUT, I do think selling fetuses which there is definitely mixed ideas on when that is a BABY is not great, but providing them to science organizations is wonderful. It is done with patient consent like donating to science. And that is how science makes discoveries that could help your loved ones.
One is done with patient consent and the other isn't El. That's the difference. When murder happens to the mother, well, that is obvious why that is a felony. But the unborn baby to a mother that is murdered is killed without her consent. This is not the case with termination. It's the mother's wish. and it is her body. And NO woman should be forced to have a child if she does not choose to do so.
One is done with patient consent and the other isn't El. That's the difference. When murder happens to the mother, well, that is obvious why that is a felony. But the unborn baby to a mother that is murdered is killed without her consent. This is not the case with termination. It's the mother's wish. and it is her body. And NO woman should be forced to have a child if she does not choose to do so.
I'm curious why it's okay (in dem's opinion) to kill a baby, havest it's organs, and sell the organs to make $$$, yet if I were to get in a wreck with a pregnant woman & kill her and her unborn child, I'm up for TWO counts of involuntary manslauter (depending on the circumstances of the accident).
I think you get my point though.
Killing unborn babies in the womb is OKAY when it's Planned Parenthood, but it's NOT okay to kill unborn babies in the womb if it's me, or you, or someone else.
Anyone?
I think you get my point though.
Killing unborn babies in the womb is OKAY when it's Planned Parenthood, but it's NOT okay to kill unborn babies in the womb if it's me, or you, or someone else.
Anyone?
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