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Supreme Court says health mandate's a tax
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- It walks like a tax and talks like a tax. Therefore it is a tax.
The Supreme Court on Thursday upheld the mandate to buy health insurance -- ruling that it is a tax and not a penalty as originally billed by supporters.
"The federal government does not have the power to order people to buy health insurance," Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for a divided court. "The federal government does have the power to impose a tax on those without health insurance."
The mandate goes into effect in 2014 and is just one of the provisions that will help pay for the Affordable Care Act. The law will subsidize coverage for low- and middle-income Americans and expand eligibility for Medicaid. The federal government is set to spend more than $1 trillion over the next decade to do so.
There are also a slew of spending cuts as well as other taxes and fees that will be paid by health sector companies and hospitals; employers and consumers.
Individuals who will help foot the tab -- directly or indirectly -- include very high-income households, those with very generous health benefits at work, those who opt to remain uninsured and those who love a good indoor tan.
Medicare surtax: Starting in 2013, many individuals making more than $200,000 a year ($250,000 if married) will start paying more into Medicare.
The health reform law changes the Medicare tax in two ways: It adds a surtax on wage income above a certain level, and it creates a new Medicare tax on investment income.
Some high-income households will only be subject to one of those changes, and some will be subject to both.
Starting next year, high-income individuals will pay another 0.9 percentage points on their earned income over $200,000 ($250,000 if married). That's on top of the 1.45% they currently pay on all of their wages.
For those with investment income, they also could be subject to a new 3.8% tax on at least a portion of their capital gains and dividends.
New mandate to buy insurance: Starting in 2014, individuals must be insured or pay a penalty.
The amount of the penalty rises annually from 2014 to 2016 and is adjusted for inflation thereafter.
In 2014, the penalty will be no more than $285 per family or 1% of income, whichever is greater. In 2015, the cap rises to $975 or 2% of income. And by 2016, the penalty would be up to $2,085 per family or 2.5% of income, whichever is greater.
The dollar amounts for a single adult would be $95, $325 and then $625 during that same time period.
There are, however, are a number of exemptions. For instance, the penalty will be waived for people with very low incomes who are members of certain religious groups, or who face insurance premiums that would exceed 8% of family income even after including employer contributions and federal subsidies.
New tax on high-cost employer plans: Starting in 2018, insurers of employer-sponsored plans -- or companies that self-insure their own plans -- will be subject to an excise tax if their plan cost tops $10,200 for individual coverage and $27,500 for family coverage. (Thresholds are higher for plans covering retirees and workers in high-risk jobs.)
The theory is that the so-called "Cadillac tax" will encourage companies to choose lower cost plans, and that will free up money to pay workers higher, taxable wages. That, in turn, boosts revenue paid into federal coffers.
Roughly 60% of large employers -- those with more than 500 employees -- believe their plans would trigger the tax unless they take action to avoid it, according to a 2011 survey by Mercer, a human resources consulting firm.
About half of those employers, however, don't think they will be able to get the value of their plan below the threshold.
"While some employers offer high-cost plans because generous benefits are part of their attraction and retention strategy, others have high-cost plans simply because they have an older or less healthy workforce or are located in a high-cost area," Mercer wrote in its survey analysis.
Cap on flexible spending accounts: Starting in 2013, the tax-deductible amount a worker may contribute to a flexible spending plan will be set at $2,500 and adjusted for inflation thereafter.
Currently there is no official limit, but employers set one for each plan.
Money contributed to FSAs may be used to pay for qualified health expenses but generally must be spent during the calendar year.
And in 2011, the law narrowed the list of qualified expenses that an FSA could pay for.
Penalty for misuse of health spending accounts: The health reform law imposed a 20% penalty for the use of a health spending account to pay for non-qualified expenses.
That provision went into effect in 2011.
Money a worker contributes to an HSA is tax deductible, while money his employer contributes to his account is tax-free. Interest and gains earned on the money invested can grow tax-free, and there is no time requirement on when the money must be used. But to qualify for an HSA, a worker must be enrolled in a high-deductible health insurance plan.
Higher threshold on medical deductions: Currently, if your medical expenses exceed 7.5% of your adjusted gross income, you may deduct the amount above 7.5%. Starting next year, however, you will only be allowed to deduct the amount above 10% of AGI.
That increase, however, is waived for tax years 2013 through 2016 for anyone 65 and older.
Tanning tax: Those seeking a little indoor "irradiation" by "ultraviolet radiation" -- as opposed to just going to the beach -- have been paying a 10% excise tax on the cost of their indoor tanning services since July 2010.
Spray tan services aren't subject to the tax.
SOURCE: http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/28/pf/taxes/health_reform_new_taxes/
The Supreme Court on Thursday upheld the mandate to buy health insurance -- ruling that it is a tax and not a penalty as originally billed by supporters.
"The federal government does not have the power to order people to buy health insurance," Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for a divided court. "The federal government does have the power to impose a tax on those without health insurance."
The mandate goes into effect in 2014 and is just one of the provisions that will help pay for the Affordable Care Act. The law will subsidize coverage for low- and middle-income Americans and expand eligibility for Medicaid. The federal government is set to spend more than $1 trillion over the next decade to do so.
There are also a slew of spending cuts as well as other taxes and fees that will be paid by health sector companies and hospitals; employers and consumers.
Individuals who will help foot the tab -- directly or indirectly -- include very high-income households, those with very generous health benefits at work, those who opt to remain uninsured and those who love a good indoor tan.
Medicare surtax: Starting in 2013, many individuals making more than $200,000 a year ($250,000 if married) will start paying more into Medicare.
The health reform law changes the Medicare tax in two ways: It adds a surtax on wage income above a certain level, and it creates a new Medicare tax on investment income.
Some high-income households will only be subject to one of those changes, and some will be subject to both.
Starting next year, high-income individuals will pay another 0.9 percentage points on their earned income over $200,000 ($250,000 if married). That's on top of the 1.45% they currently pay on all of their wages.
For those with investment income, they also could be subject to a new 3.8% tax on at least a portion of their capital gains and dividends.
New mandate to buy insurance: Starting in 2014, individuals must be insured or pay a penalty.
The amount of the penalty rises annually from 2014 to 2016 and is adjusted for inflation thereafter.
In 2014, the penalty will be no more than $285 per family or 1% of income, whichever is greater. In 2015, the cap rises to $975 or 2% of income. And by 2016, the penalty would be up to $2,085 per family or 2.5% of income, whichever is greater.
The dollar amounts for a single adult would be $95, $325 and then $625 during that same time period.
There are, however, are a number of exemptions. For instance, the penalty will be waived for people with very low incomes who are members of certain religious groups, or who face insurance premiums that would exceed 8% of family income even after including employer contributions and federal subsidies.
New tax on high-cost employer plans: Starting in 2018, insurers of employer-sponsored plans -- or companies that self-insure their own plans -- will be subject to an excise tax if their plan cost tops $10,200 for individual coverage and $27,500 for family coverage. (Thresholds are higher for plans covering retirees and workers in high-risk jobs.)
The theory is that the so-called "Cadillac tax" will encourage companies to choose lower cost plans, and that will free up money to pay workers higher, taxable wages. That, in turn, boosts revenue paid into federal coffers.
Roughly 60% of large employers -- those with more than 500 employees -- believe their plans would trigger the tax unless they take action to avoid it, according to a 2011 survey by Mercer, a human resources consulting firm.
About half of those employers, however, don't think they will be able to get the value of their plan below the threshold.
"While some employers offer high-cost plans because generous benefits are part of their attraction and retention strategy, others have high-cost plans simply because they have an older or less healthy workforce or are located in a high-cost area," Mercer wrote in its survey analysis.
Cap on flexible spending accounts: Starting in 2013, the tax-deductible amount a worker may contribute to a flexible spending plan will be set at $2,500 and adjusted for inflation thereafter.
Currently there is no official limit, but employers set one for each plan.
Money contributed to FSAs may be used to pay for qualified health expenses but generally must be spent during the calendar year.
And in 2011, the law narrowed the list of qualified expenses that an FSA could pay for.
Penalty for misuse of health spending accounts: The health reform law imposed a 20% penalty for the use of a health spending account to pay for non-qualified expenses.
That provision went into effect in 2011.
Money a worker contributes to an HSA is tax deductible, while money his employer contributes to his account is tax-free. Interest and gains earned on the money invested can grow tax-free, and there is no time requirement on when the money must be used. But to qualify for an HSA, a worker must be enrolled in a high-deductible health insurance plan.
Higher threshold on medical deductions: Currently, if your medical expenses exceed 7.5% of your adjusted gross income, you may deduct the amount above 7.5%. Starting next year, however, you will only be allowed to deduct the amount above 10% of AGI.
That increase, however, is waived for tax years 2013 through 2016 for anyone 65 and older.
Tanning tax: Those seeking a little indoor "irradiation" by "ultraviolet radiation" -- as opposed to just going to the beach -- have been paying a 10% excise tax on the cost of their indoor tanning services since July 2010.
Spray tan services aren't subject to the tax.
SOURCE: http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/28/pf/taxes/health_reform_new_taxes/
LOL.... yeah, we'd get real far!
As sad as this is, I don't trust any politician out there today. None on the national front, for sure. I just feel as if I can't trust them. They haven't done a whole heck of a lot to gain my trust. Moreso, they've done more to destroy trust.
Nobody keeps a promise. Everyone has a hidden agenda. These people aren't worth their word and they do not speak for the masses. It is individualized representation at best, and if you've got some money, you can buy that representation. Pitiful/disgusting.....
In a round about way, I know the governor of our state. On paper, so far.... this guy is the republican he claims to be. He's standing on things he said he'd stand on. (He did ditch a ton of money for state high ways.... dumb, because the western part of the state is completely dependent upon tourism, and good roads are a big part of getting those folks and their tourist money here.) But.... but..... there is something about the guy that I feel is going to just snap!
Our last governor was a democrat in our republican state. He stood firm on ranching, natural resources, and tourism. He got the states coffers full, and you could not B.S. the guy. He just wouldn't have it. He made tough calls that weren't too popular at the time and they worked to his/our advantage.
Our governor now.... there's just something there. I can't put a finger on it. As I said, I know the guy in a round about way. I know a ton of this mans friends, family and constituents. I think he is very able and very smart.... but it might be that that gets him in trouble. So far, he is sticking with his platform and I do appreciate that. But with the current state of affairs, I am a little leery.
As sad as this is, I don't trust any politician out there today. None on the national front, for sure. I just feel as if I can't trust them. They haven't done a whole heck of a lot to gain my trust. Moreso, they've done more to destroy trust.
Nobody keeps a promise. Everyone has a hidden agenda. These people aren't worth their word and they do not speak for the masses. It is individualized representation at best, and if you've got some money, you can buy that representation. Pitiful/disgusting.....
In a round about way, I know the governor of our state. On paper, so far.... this guy is the republican he claims to be. He's standing on things he said he'd stand on. (He did ditch a ton of money for state high ways.... dumb, because the western part of the state is completely dependent upon tourism, and good roads are a big part of getting those folks and their tourist money here.) But.... but..... there is something about the guy that I feel is going to just snap!
Our last governor was a democrat in our republican state. He stood firm on ranching, natural resources, and tourism. He got the states coffers full, and you could not B.S. the guy. He just wouldn't have it. He made tough calls that weren't too popular at the time and they worked to his/our advantage.
Our governor now.... there's just something there. I can't put a finger on it. As I said, I know the guy in a round about way. I know a ton of this mans friends, family and constituents. I think he is very able and very smart.... but it might be that that gets him in trouble. So far, he is sticking with his platform and I do appreciate that. But with the current state of affairs, I am a little leery.
I think we should run on our own ticket....brice/barb -- yep - that'll do it.. we make more sense than the politicians and we don't have a hidden agenda, with super PAC's behind us......... lol
Actually, this is what bothers me more than anything -- the people we elected to represent us, don't...... they get into Congress and go rogue, which is not usually the way of the people who elected them. Who do they think they are? Our democracy is becoming nothing but a smoke screen...... because our votes don't really count any more.
Actually, this is what bothers me more than anything -- the people we elected to represent us, don't...... they get into Congress and go rogue, which is not usually the way of the people who elected them. Who do they think they are? Our democracy is becoming nothing but a smoke screen...... because our votes don't really count any more.
Again, I agree with you 100%. Never a truer statement about why they go "whole hog".
I've seen/heard, even understand some of the good involved, but I am far more concerned with the mire surrounding that good. The beauty is, we won't run into a lot of it until years down the road. With how things go in DC, you know there has to be a night mare in the makings. This is not and cannot be a win win for the American people.
Change needs to start with how laws are legislated and how bills are written. Start there..... make sense of all of these bills and offer up a bit of that transparency we were promised.
I've seen/heard, even understand some of the good involved, but I am far more concerned with the mire surrounding that good. The beauty is, we won't run into a lot of it until years down the road. With how things go in DC, you know there has to be a night mare in the makings. This is not and cannot be a win win for the American people.
Change needs to start with how laws are legislated and how bills are written. Start there..... make sense of all of these bills and offer up a bit of that transparency we were promised.
Politics, Brice........ it's not US who can't get out of our own way; it's the politicians who won't get out of the way.
If they put something like this through in bits and pieces, they couldn't stick in the big things that nobody wants and get away with it. By going whole hog, they had a chance to put things that nobody knows about, and won't, until they go into effect....... Remember, Pelosi said something like "we have to pass the bill before you can find out what's in it". Why?
The law has some good things in it and probably shouldn't be completely repealed, but it does need its own overhaul.
If they put something like this through in bits and pieces, they couldn't stick in the big things that nobody wants and get away with it. By going whole hog, they had a chance to put things that nobody knows about, and won't, until they go into effect....... Remember, Pelosi said something like "we have to pass the bill before you can find out what's in it". Why?
The law has some good things in it and probably shouldn't be completely repealed, but it does need its own overhaul.
"Tax" or a "penalty"? Semantics, basically.... and one is supposed to be more palatable than the other? WTF is wrong with that picture? WTF is wrong with the picture is that I am supposed to be okay with forking out more money on a monthly basis.....
My loving wife made a comment that took me aback, considering our financial standing..... she said, "I am glad that I am getting that extra $60 in my check each pay day". In the mean time, everything under the globe is more expensive than it was 2,3,4,10 years ago and that $60 doesn't even matter. We've altered our lifestyle so friggin much to resemble "living" in today's society, just in order to squeek by. (And by squeaking by, I mean not going too much into debt monthly....) I am supposed to be okay with that????
We can do better. WE have to do better. We need to quit hammering half baked ideas through in one piece. Whoever mentioned doing this is parcels was brilliant!!! We tend to hammer these big *** nightmares through and when the wheels fall off, we don't know where to look. Go small, work on it along the way and no major changes need to be bickered with and held up.
I find it terrifyingly amusing that the majority of the country wants the same thing, but we cannot make anything resembling that thing happen. It's like we cannot get out of our own way.
My loving wife made a comment that took me aback, considering our financial standing..... she said, "I am glad that I am getting that extra $60 in my check each pay day". In the mean time, everything under the globe is more expensive than it was 2,3,4,10 years ago and that $60 doesn't even matter. We've altered our lifestyle so friggin much to resemble "living" in today's society, just in order to squeek by. (And by squeaking by, I mean not going too much into debt monthly....) I am supposed to be okay with that????
We can do better. WE have to do better. We need to quit hammering half baked ideas through in one piece. Whoever mentioned doing this is parcels was brilliant!!! We tend to hammer these big *** nightmares through and when the wheels fall off, we don't know where to look. Go small, work on it along the way and no major changes need to be bickered with and held up.
I find it terrifyingly amusing that the majority of the country wants the same thing, but we cannot make anything resembling that thing happen. It's like we cannot get out of our own way.
Hey, you missed the Asians. Not only don't they tan but they sell skin lightener in all kinds of skin care products.
And how about religious Islamic women ? They can't show enough skin to tan.
Let, see, fish don't tan do they ?
I'm sure there's more.
And how about religious Islamic women ? They can't show enough skin to tan.
Let, see, fish don't tan do they ?
I'm sure there's more.
You're FINALLY getting me, dude!!!
I'm so happy at least someone on here has seen the light (as far as my sick, twisted, demented, stereotypical sense of humor goes).
Thank you Mike... you just made my week. Seriously;-)
I'm so happy at least someone on here has seen the light (as far as my sick, twisted, demented, stereotypical sense of humor goes).
Thank you Mike... you just made my week. Seriously;-)
"Mrs P is a big Obama supporter. I don't always agree with her but I respect her"
Thanks OH...Right back at ya:)
Thanks OH...Right back at ya:)
"
Tanning tax...
I was just thinking about something. You know who's NOT tanning? Black people and mexicans.
You know who IS tanning? Well-off white people.
Tell me that's not racism and discrimination.
Freaking pathetic."
Didn't some White people put this law into plcae?.....C'mon EL let's not make it into a race thing....Be a big boy!
.
Tanning tax...
I was just thinking about something. You know who's NOT tanning? Black people and mexicans.
You know who IS tanning? Well-off white people.
Tell me that's not racism and discrimination.
Freaking pathetic."
Didn't some White people put this law into plcae?.....C'mon EL let's not make it into a race thing....Be a big boy!
.
"Tell me how loud black people would scream if there was a tax levied on Cool Menthol cigs, or Popeyes fried chicken, or stuff like that...
Wow!!! You're not serious are you EL?
Wow!!! You're not serious are you EL?
You really can't help yourself, can you?
In a strange and somewhat demented way I'm beginning to find traces of humor in your incessant preoccupation with stereotypes.
Mike
In a strange and somewhat demented way I'm beginning to find traces of humor in your incessant preoccupation with stereotypes.
Mike
Tell me how loud black people would scream if there was a tax levied on Cool Menthol cigs, or Popeyes fried chicken, or stuff like that...
Tanning tax...
I was just thinking about something. You know who's NOT tanning? Black people and mexicans.
You know who IS tanning? Well-off white people.
Tell me that's not racism and discrimination.
Freaking pathetic.
I was just thinking about something. You know who's NOT tanning? Black people and mexicans.
You know who IS tanning? Well-off white people.
Tell me that's not racism and discrimination.
Freaking pathetic.
The Learned Vance.
Roberts is not on the left but did get this wrong. The mandate is bad law. The way INS is going to work is it will not be controled by the large INS companies because they have no say in how much they charge and how much is given back to the Dr's/hospitals. It is going to be mostly government run in key areas.
Obama was not even close to ready and has made a ton of mistakes. Overall the decision is do you want to continue this path? Or do you want change? Obama promised change, yet the change is for the worse.
Obama was not even close to ready and has made a ton of mistakes. Overall the decision is do you want to continue this path? Or do you want change? Obama promised change, yet the change is for the worse.
We are all human and humans make mistakes.
Has anyone here really claimed that President Obama has not made mistakes ?
I for one agree that he was not ready for the huge mess he got himself into when elected.
There are many things he's done, that I don't agree with and have disappointed me.
If I say there's something I don't like about Romney or Bush that doesn't mean Obama is above reproach.
Mrs P is a big Obama supporter. I don't always agree with her but I respect her.
We are all in this mess together.
The only ones I see 'winning' are the insurance companies.
They just got a windfall, how anyone can call that socialism or even suggest Roberts is on the left, is beyond me.
Has anyone here really claimed that President Obama has not made mistakes ?
I for one agree that he was not ready for the huge mess he got himself into when elected.
There are many things he's done, that I don't agree with and have disappointed me.
If I say there's something I don't like about Romney or Bush that doesn't mean Obama is above reproach.
Mrs P is a big Obama supporter. I don't always agree with her but I respect her.
We are all in this mess together.
The only ones I see 'winning' are the insurance companies.
They just got a windfall, how anyone can call that socialism or even suggest Roberts is on the left, is beyond me.
Of course he can do no wrong, he's the 1st African American...I mean 1st mixed race President who learned from radicals. No way that a 1-term Senator is in over his head, I mean he was a Community Organizer.
Once again, blinders are on, and B.O. can do no wrong.
The middle-class will see a tax increase. I'm not going to argue... let's just wait and see.
The middle-class will see a tax increase. I'm not going to argue... let's just wait and see.
"If you have what is considered a "Cadillac policy", you *will* pay tax on it, no matter how much you shell out each week."
Nope not me....
Individuals who will help foot the tab -- directly or indirectly -- include very high-income households, those with very generous health benefits at work, those who opt to remain uninsured and those who love a good indoor tan.
Medicare surtax: Starting in 2013, many individuals making more than $200,000 a year ($250,000 if married) will start paying more into Medicare.
Nope not me....
Individuals who will help foot the tab -- directly or indirectly -- include very high-income households, those with very generous health benefits at work, those who opt to remain uninsured and those who love a good indoor tan.
Medicare surtax: Starting in 2013, many individuals making more than $200,000 a year ($250,000 if married) will start paying more into Medicare.
"It's a new tax... plain and simple."
Yea for the people who have been getting tax breaks for the last 10 years....
"There are also a slew of spending cuts as well as other taxes and fees that will be paid by health sector companies and hospitals; employers and consumers.
Individuals who will help foot the tab -- directly or indirectly -- include very high-income households, those with very generous health benefits at work, those who opt to remain uninsured and those who love a good indoor tan.
Medicare surtax: Starting in 2013, many individuals making more than $200,000 a year ($250,000 if married) will start paying more into Medicare.
The health reform law changes the Medicare tax in two ways: It adds a surtax on wage income above a certain level, and it creates a new Medicare tax on investment income.
Some high-income households will only be subject to one of those changes, and some will be subject to both.
Starting next year, high-income individuals will pay another 0.9 percentage points on their earned income over $200,000 ($250,000 if married). That's on top of the 1.45% they currently pay on all of their wages. "
Yea for the people who have been getting tax breaks for the last 10 years....
"There are also a slew of spending cuts as well as other taxes and fees that will be paid by health sector companies and hospitals; employers and consumers.
Individuals who will help foot the tab -- directly or indirectly -- include very high-income households, those with very generous health benefits at work, those who opt to remain uninsured and those who love a good indoor tan.
Medicare surtax: Starting in 2013, many individuals making more than $200,000 a year ($250,000 if married) will start paying more into Medicare.
The health reform law changes the Medicare tax in two ways: It adds a surtax on wage income above a certain level, and it creates a new Medicare tax on investment income.
Some high-income households will only be subject to one of those changes, and some will be subject to both.
Starting next year, high-income individuals will pay another 0.9 percentage points on their earned income over $200,000 ($250,000 if married). That's on top of the 1.45% they currently pay on all of their wages. "
Med school enrollment in this country won't matter. Healthcare has become another global market. As long as there are waivers to immigration quotas for certain professions we won't lack for doctors.
I haven't read the ACA, but I can tell you how things have changed for me since 2010:
I was allowed to keep my 22 year old daughter on my Health Insurance until she found a job with good benefits.
My monthly insurance payments (which had roughly tripled between 2000 and 2010) have not risen noticeably.
My co-pay for Rx meds has roughly tripled.
The Supreme Court has passed the decision back to the people. Come November, one candidate has vowed to repeal the law and the other will fight to retain it. If the campaign hinged on this one issue, I'd vote against Romney.
I haven't read the ACA, but I can tell you how things have changed for me since 2010:
I was allowed to keep my 22 year old daughter on my Health Insurance until she found a job with good benefits.
My monthly insurance payments (which had roughly tripled between 2000 and 2010) have not risen noticeably.
My co-pay for Rx meds has roughly tripled.
The Supreme Court has passed the decision back to the people. Come November, one candidate has vowed to repeal the law and the other will fight to retain it. If the campaign hinged on this one issue, I'd vote against Romney.
Once as people know what is going on, hospitals will start to cut back and med school enrollment will be down.
You need to rethink that 75% figure. Latest polls this morning show 42% opposed, 35% pro, and 22% undecided. Since the law is mindnumbingly long and few have actually read it, this just tells me that only 22% of the American Public are honest and 77% are willing to drink their respective Party's Kool-Aid.
Once again, we're talking about the 1% (upper-crust).
This effects you and me, and won't hurt them a bit. So what if they have to pay a little more. THEY can afford it. This is about YOU and ME, and the fact that WE'RE being fleeced and taxed to death.
Please keep in mind that THEY aren't the ones screaming about this. It's ME and 75% of the country that are screaming, because this is yet ANOTHER tax.
Frankly, I can't afford to pay anymore than I'm already paying, and I dare say, that the majority of you guys in the forum are in the same boat I am.
This effects you and me, and won't hurt them a bit. So what if they have to pay a little more. THEY can afford it. This is about YOU and ME, and the fact that WE'RE being fleeced and taxed to death.
Please keep in mind that THEY aren't the ones screaming about this. It's ME and 75% of the country that are screaming, because this is yet ANOTHER tax.
Frankly, I can't afford to pay anymore than I'm already paying, and I dare say, that the majority of you guys in the forum are in the same boat I am.
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