Union: Pistol-whipped detective didn't shoot attacker because of headlines

[hrsepwrguy]

(CNN)Basically, the detective didn't want to be the next police officer accused of needlessly killing an unarmed man.

The Birmingham, Alabama, cop who was pistol-whipped unconscious last week didn't shoot the motorist who attacked him because of the outcry surrounding the recent spate of police shootings, the head of the local police union said Thursday.

"He hesitated simply because of what's going on in society right now," said Heath Boackle, a sergeant with the Birmingham Police Department and president of the city's Fraternal Order of Police. "We have officers walking on eggshells because of how they're scrutinized in the media."

"We should be thanking the good Lord because he could be dead right now."

Police Chief A.C. Roper sees the episode -- as well as the reaction, including celebratory and vitriolic comments posted online alongside images of the wounded officer -- as symptomatic of a larger problem, in which some don't respect law enforcement.

"The nobility and integrity of policing has been challenged," Roper said. "As a profession, we have allowed popular culture to draft a narrative which is contrary to the amazing work that so many officers are doing everyday across this nation."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/13/us/alabama-birmingham-police-detective-pistol-whipped/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[brice1967]

We are talking about the same case, by the way.  No way do paramedics rush into a scene that is not secure.  Paramedics are paramedics and not cops.  Cops come in, secure the scene and then paramedics take over on the medical part of the situation.

Paramedics rush into an unsecure scene, get stabbed and cut up and then you need more paramedics for the paramedics.  

This is standard procedure.  This woman's own family could not contain her.  The people she knew best, the people who loved her most, could not contain her so they called for help.  It doesn't matter what they requested.  If the scene was so unsafe for them, it certainly would have been unsafe for paramedics who practice medicine as first responders.  None of their training or equipment is made for de-escalation or restraint.

I know you won't understand this.  I know you think a cop will show up and things are supposed to be rosey and pink, or a paramedic will show up and this woman would just stop what she is doing in order to receive the help she needs.....  It really doesn't happen that way, and its tragic.  Had this woman stayed on her meds, who knows what would have happened.

What we do know is, she quit taking her meds and put herself in crisis mode, and then decided to arm herself with a knife.  She was convincing enough that her family gave her a wide berth and called for help.  Unfortunately, when help arrived, she tried to attack.  

[brice1967]

Cops come to secure the scene.  If its not safe for cops, it surely isn't safe for paramedics.

[Barb135]

I agree that an EMT would not try to "talk a person down" if the person had a knife (or other weapon) and were threatening family members; the EMT would call the police, who would do exactly what the police officer did in that incident.  I know some EMT's also and they aren't trained to take over in violent situations; they will back off until the police have the situation under control.

It's not always possible to talk someone down and shooting to disable can be extremely dangerous, to both, the officer and others around, since even a disabled person can kill or cause serious injury to others.  The officer has no way of knowing what a person who has been disabled might still be capable of doing.

[Vance2335]

This is the last time I am going to say this, next time I am just going to insult you. THIS IS NOT HOLLYWOOD!!!!!!!!!

Chuck Norris or Steven Segal are not showing up to field the call. They are not walking up to the person and grabbing the wrist and slapping the knife away. Nor is Chris Kyle showing up and going to shoot the gun out of the persons hand. Stop this fantasy that you have going on that police or 99.99% of the population can just do this or that.
You want to send police away to sniper school for a year and then several years of martial arts training? No that is just stupid.

What happens if a cop tried to shoot the leg of a person and missed and the bullet hit a bystandard and killed them?

I read a book from the guy who started Seal Team 6 and one line has always stuck with me was him writing that in a knife fight no one wins. You see Hollywood portray it as 2 guys going back and forth and not getting cut all that much until one gets the upper hand and kills the other guy. This is 100% false. What actually happens is both guys get cut, slashed and stabbed. So in the case above the police had ONE choice. And even if EMT showed up they would have left once as they saw a knife and would have called the police. And the police showed up because the woman was threatening family members. EMT's can't handle that.

How to disarm a person coming at you with a knife...YOU SHOOT THAT PERSON CENTER MASS. The standard 9mm issue weapon has no scope, the stopping power is not that great (compared to other caliber weapons), while it is accurate to a point it could still be better, but for that you need a larger barrell.

[orphanedhawk]

I'm thinking about an incident that happened in Hal moon bay Ca. Where the family of a mentally disturbed 18 yr old woman called 911and asked for a paramedic. Instead a cop came, saw the young woman with a knife and shot her dead. If these cops are so well trained why do they shoot to kill when they could shoot to disable if shooting is necessary ?
I'm not saying it's easy I wouldn't want the job ! But I think the training needs to include how to disarm, how to talk a person down etc.

[brice1967]

I've had to pull my gun one time.  I got so sick to my stomach right after this event.  I am so glad the situation was resolved.

[hrsepwrguy]

He was a detective, he probably wasn't carrying a taser (he is not a patrol officer), he had just pulled the car over for driving reckless and was waiting for a patrol officer to arrive and take over the call so he could go on about his business, What should he do, just let the car go because he wasn't properly outfitted for a traffic stop ?

[Vance2335]

But brice why not use a tazor? (Asking that for OH). Well to answer that is tazor CAN stop someone but not always. I have seen video of someone on PCP take a tazor shot and almost walk right through it. So if this person has a knife going after someone you are actually risking your life by using the tazor and not the gun.

Officers choose the job but they also have an obligation to stay alive. If they have to use deadly force then they have to. I have never had to shoot someone yet I know 2 people who did. A friend who is a Marine LT/Captain who had horrible PTSD after he got back because of what he saw and did. And one of the officer friends I mentioned above. He had to shoot someone (killed him). He had horrible anxiety and night terrors for over a month and still does not like to talk about it because when he does the anxiety comes back. Shooting is NEVER EVER the first option no matter what you want to believe.

[brice1967]

By the way, in the situation above, the cop didn't want to shoot and kill that person.  He also didn't want innocent people standing by to be injured/killed, nor did he wish that for himself.  he has a job to do and if he is dead or injured, he cannot do his job.

[brice1967]

Oh, absolutely there have been and do you know why they have been shot?  They were trying to attack/kill the people trying to help them!  You can't do that and if you think it is a cops job to stand in and get hacked up with a knife because someone is off their meds, something is horribly amiss.

There is one case we discussed here on CE.  The woman was off her meds, going crazy with a knife and even her own family... the people who knew her best, could not help nor confine/contain her.  When the cops showed up, she charged the officer with a butcher knife....  What is he supposed to do?  Allow himself to get hacked up?  I guarantee you that if that cop did nothing and that woman went bat crap nuts and hacked up her family or someone watching, the community would have gone bat crap crazy because the cop didn't stop her....

Cops aren't mental health professionals.  They can't be.  Law and order is supposed to be their business.

[Vance2335]

Yes they have shot some people as the officer was being attacked. It still comes down to there lives vs someone elses.

I have friends one being a State Trooper and another who is a city police officer. Not only do they get training at the state police acedemy for 6 months they also get 6 months of ride along training. So that is 1 full year before they are alone.

Police are to protect and serve, they are not and should not be trainined in trying to handle mental health cases. The training is putting into cuffs and taking to a hospital. You want them to be MH professionals, they can't be.

[Barb135]

I think what you're seeing as "shock and thrill" is what I'm seeing at the liberal media, because that's what they do... They have nothing important to say, but they want the attention... so they don't investigate anything, they just report whatever horror stories they get, whether true or not.

[orphanedhawk]

There have been incidents where the police were called and told the person had mental problems. The police were called for help and they shot the person they were supposed to help.

And Barb, you may see the media as liberal, yet I see it as anything but.
There is so little true investigative reporting of any kind.
They are after shock and thrill quick time bites.

[Barb135]

I don't think the case against the media is overstated at all... I'm not saying there is no problem, but the media tends to dramatize everything that happens and make it seem much worse than it really is.  As has been noted many times on many different threads, if people wouldn't break the law and would obey police commands, most of what happens wouldn't happen in the first place.

We're seeing cameras rolling, now, and the cops that are being overzealous are beginning to be weeded out, but as is the case with this article, the officer clearly states that he hesitated because he didn't want the media to go after him for anything and the people who did it thought it was funny enough to post photos on social media. That's some kind of respect for an officer of the law and all it does is give others the false bravery to try something similar.

[mikesimon]

I think you're really overstating the case against the media. It isn't as if the recent news stories about police killing unarmed blacks are being fabricated out of whole cloth. There really is something going on here. We have seen a few videos that are quite dramatic and convincing. We've disagreed here about them but I thought the choking of the New York guy accused of selling single cigarettes was extremely difficult to defend. The black guy who was shot in the back while running away was impossible to defend from the policeman's perspective. And there are others which I won't bother recounting.
My point is that there is an underlying problem here and it is not always the media that is to blame. When more police are wearing and using body cameras I suspect we will see a drastic reduction in these types of confrontations and it won't be due to any lack of media attention or media bias. Time will tell but I do believe that when the cameras are rolling and the police know they're rolling their behavior will change.

[Barb135]

In this case, the officer did not have to disarm anyone else; he was pistol whipped with his own weapon, because he hesitated to stand up for himself...

We all know we can thank the liberal media for this kind of thing because they've turned the criminals into heroes and the cops into criminals. Now criminals are braver and cops are walking on eggshells in order to stay out of the news.  It seems that even people who would not have been criminals in the past, are now becoming brave enough to become criminals because they know cops are hesitant to do their jobs because the media will make mince meat of them if they even give the appearance of a misstep.

It's become way easy to scream "police brutality", these days...

[brice1967]

I'd like to put this out there too.  I know at least 4 different people who are ex-cops.  One thing they all have in common is, part of the reason they quit is the politics of the job.  

Different factors under the politics umbrella is what they could and could not do across the board.

[brice1967]

I think your expectations of the police in general is completely off the mark.  We've discussed this numerous times.  The fact is, cops are trained better today than they ever have been.  They are trained in hand to hand combat including disarming techniques but you have to understand that when the cops show up, bad guys just don't give up.  Cops are better trained because the types of crimes and criminals have changed.  the training had to as well.

I mean no disrespect when I say this, but I think you have unreasonable expectations of the police.  Realistically, how do you tell if someone is mentally ill, OH?  How long does it take to diagnose someone with a mental illness, and then how long does it take to diagnose someone with a mental illness when they have engaged you in a physical altercation or is shooting up the general public?  How does a cop differentiate between the various mental illnesses and assume that this "mentally ill" person is going to be a text book case of said mental illness?  (mental illnesses vary)  How is a cop supposed to be able to determine what the bad guy is going to do?

I'm not sure that you understand that not every situation a cop gets into is the same as the previous situation.  There are cookie cutter scenarios on the streets.  Bad guys just don't always give up and don't always comply.  

Cops are trained to some extent to notice certain behaviors.  Cops are trained in basic first aide and cpr.  Cops trained in de-escalating techniques.  Cops are trained in hand to hand combat including disarming techniques.  Cops are trained in procedure.  Cops are trained to secure crime scenes.  Cops are trained to conduct interviews and what is legal and not legal (procedure).  

These people are highly trained.  just like doctors, some are far better than others.  

[orphanedhawk]

I believe that police officers are no longer being trained to disarm but are taught to shoot to kill. It's the only thing that explains the kinds of unlawful shootings that have taken place. They also are no longer dealing properly with the mentally ill. Again, they need proper training.
I could be wrong but I think at one time, there was better training, or perhaps because cops often lived in the neighborhoods they patrolled they behaved with more compassion.
Now, I know I'm make a broad generalization and there are good caring cops out there and perhaps the cops where you live, do behave in ethical ways.

[brice1967]

They are trained.  

[orphanedhawk]

Yes, policing is a dangerous job.

I think clement made a good remark about the officer using something like mace before going for his gun.

It is my firm belief that police officers need to be highly trained in how to disarm and stop an assailant using their guns only as a last resort.

[clement4now]

Thanks for the extra info., I get the whole picture now.
Gee, that's good to know that a thug like Cunningham is alive and well, has many supporters, and will most likely be free to commit more crimes in the future...
This just goes to show exactly how dangerous the job is while preforming a routine duty for a sworn officer...

[hrsepwrguy]

Detective struck with his own weapon

The incident occurred Friday in the Birmingham enclave of Roebuck when the detective, a six-year veteran whose name has not been released, was on his way to interview a robbery witness and saw a car that was carrying at least two people traveling erratically on the interstate, according to police.

“He calls for backup and tells the man to stay in the car, but he didn’t,” Boackle told CNN in a phone interview. “The last thing the officer remembers is getting sucker-punched in a parking lot. The next thing, he’s waking up in a hospital bed with staples in his head.”

According to Boackle, the detective spoke to Janard Cunningham, who was sitting the car. The detective decided to call for backup so that he could continue his robbery investigation while another officer handled the traffic stop.

While he was calling for backup, Cunningham allegedly exited the car and became aggressive, approaching the detective and repeatedly questioning why he’d been pulled over, the union chief said. The detective considered using force but thought better of it and continued his call when Cunningham hit him, Boackle said.

Cunningham is accused of then “pistol whipping” the officer with his own service weapon, Boackle said.

The officer suffered multiple lacerations to his head and face but is expected to recover from his injuries, according to Boackle. The University of Alabama-Birmingham treated and released him the same day. He’s recovering at home and has not yet returned to duty, Boackle said.

Chief calls reaction ‘absolutely inhumane’

Adding insult to injury is that several bystanders, rather than help, took pictures of the bloodied officer as he was facedown on the concrete and posted the images on social media, where the officer was mocked.

Many people rose to the officer’s defense, but the detective’s colleagues were outraged by a collection of posts that seemed to revel in the beating.

“Pistol whipped his *** to sleep,” one user wrote, employing the hashtag #FckDaPolice. Another mockingly offered the officer milk and cookies for his “nap time.”

Roper, the Birmingham police chief, called the fact bystanders would take pictures of an officer being beaten rather than help him, then proceed to post them, “absolutely inhumane.” The online commenters only made it worse.

“It really speaks to the lack of their morality and humanity,” the chief said. “(These) people commented on the pictures in a celebratory fashion, … disregarding that this public servant has a family and is committed to serve in some of our most challenging communities.”

http://fox43.com/2015/08/13/union-pistol-whipped-detective-didnt-shoot-attacker-because-of-headlines/

[clement4now]

Was he jumped or sucker punched to begin with by this motorist? I'm on a tablet right now, and am not able to pick up the link.
I'm wondering if Birmingham police carry mace or tasers, that would've helped him possibly, unless he was ambushed and taken by surprise...
That's not good that police feel intimidated by public scrutiny, especially when it gets in the way of doing their jobs effectively...