Aa
Alcohol and HCV treatment
I keep thinking about what could have caused the viral breakthrough when I was on pegasys and riba:
- 3 weeks before therapy- 280,000
- 1 week before therapy - 1,060,000
- week 4 of therapy - 13,000
- week 8 on therapy - 2,575
- week 12 on therapy - 66,742
- week 13 on therapy - 103,000
Between weeks 8 and 12... I remember we visited our friends then and I was offered a "non-alcohol" punch - I got two glasses of it then. A week ago I asked for its recepie and realized that the punch was not really free of alcohol - it did have like a teaspoon of alcohol per glass. I wonder if having that alcohol in my blood provoked that viral breakthrough that I had or if this amount of alcohol was insignificant? I actually don't drink alcohol at all, never did. I wonder if it was too much for me, or just enough to ruin my response to pegasys...
- 3 weeks before therapy- 280,000
- 1 week before therapy - 1,060,000
- week 4 of therapy - 13,000
- week 8 on therapy - 2,575
- week 12 on therapy - 66,742
- week 13 on therapy - 103,000
Between weeks 8 and 12... I remember we visited our friends then and I was offered a "non-alcohol" punch - I got two glasses of it then. A week ago I asked for its recepie and realized that the punch was not really free of alcohol - it did have like a teaspoon of alcohol per glass. I wonder if having that alcohol in my blood provoked that viral breakthrough that I had or if this amount of alcohol was insignificant? I actually don't drink alcohol at all, never did. I wonder if it was too much for me, or just enough to ruin my response to pegasys...
From what I have heard from the reason for the abstinence is that it continues to attack the liver which is already onder distress from the virus.
Since the virus is short lived, on the order of 24-48 hours is what I recall seeing making it much like a mosquiteo, it survives and thrives by both mutating to avoid the immune systems attack upon it and reproducing to maintain or increase it's presence. The reproduction mechanism of HCV is to highjack the liver's reproduction system to assembly it's RNA strands.
If the liver is still under attack it is going to go into a higher rate of cell reproduction and consequently the hijacked factories are going to respond by increase the production of HCV cells at a similar rate that the regular factories are cranking out good liver sell. Thus, it is self defeating the attempts of the riba, and even the new Protease and Polymerase inhibitors, which are trying to foil the reproduction of new HCV cells so that the Inteferon has fewer cells it needs to kill in order to attain SVR.
But the discussion here was whether a couple of tainted drinks, not full up shots or even real bender, would compromise ones therapy. The study being referenced is addressing "moderate", and perhaps even excessive, alcohol consumption during TX.
I would also have to believe that "moderate" consumption is refering to repeated episodes as compared to a one time event and that the amount of alcohol being ingested is at significantly different levels.
One would also need to compare the studies definition of "moderate" consumption to sunshines76 one time ingestion of a couple of beverages, which supposedly only had a few teaspons full of alcohol.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I believe this is comparing apples to oranges for this inquiry. However, it is a noteworthy study to point out to those who may be looking at justifying being able to go out with the boys, or gals as the case may be, several times while on TX.
As for my remarks to Ugly, yes I was being sarcastic in response to what I took to be his sarcasm on the discussion as I have not heard anyone condoning Herion use for SX management. Although there has been some discussions on using marijuana in a similar manner as has been tried for other cancer chemo TX.
Sorry, perhaps should have used some emoticons. If however, Ugly was not being facetious, then it sounds like he has more than the HCV to worry about.
But, the "onto something" remark was in reference to it curing you, I meant by killing you (hence the break on through to the other side which may be dating myself a bit), particularily by ODing if your mixing the drugs together.
Since the virus is short lived, on the order of 24-48 hours is what I recall seeing making it much like a mosquiteo, it survives and thrives by both mutating to avoid the immune systems attack upon it and reproducing to maintain or increase it's presence. The reproduction mechanism of HCV is to highjack the liver's reproduction system to assembly it's RNA strands.
If the liver is still under attack it is going to go into a higher rate of cell reproduction and consequently the hijacked factories are going to respond by increase the production of HCV cells at a similar rate that the regular factories are cranking out good liver sell. Thus, it is self defeating the attempts of the riba, and even the new Protease and Polymerase inhibitors, which are trying to foil the reproduction of new HCV cells so that the Inteferon has fewer cells it needs to kill in order to attain SVR.
But the discussion here was whether a couple of tainted drinks, not full up shots or even real bender, would compromise ones therapy. The study being referenced is addressing "moderate", and perhaps even excessive, alcohol consumption during TX.
I would also have to believe that "moderate" consumption is refering to repeated episodes as compared to a one time event and that the amount of alcohol being ingested is at significantly different levels.
One would also need to compare the studies definition of "moderate" consumption to sunshines76 one time ingestion of a couple of beverages, which supposedly only had a few teaspons full of alcohol.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I believe this is comparing apples to oranges for this inquiry. However, it is a noteworthy study to point out to those who may be looking at justifying being able to go out with the boys, or gals as the case may be, several times while on TX.
As for my remarks to Ugly, yes I was being sarcastic in response to what I took to be his sarcasm on the discussion as I have not heard anyone condoning Herion use for SX management. Although there has been some discussions on using marijuana in a similar manner as has been tried for other cancer chemo TX.
Sorry, perhaps should have used some emoticons. If however, Ugly was not being facetious, then it sounds like he has more than the HCV to worry about.
But, the "onto something" remark was in reference to it curing you, I meant by killing you (hence the break on through to the other side which may be dating myself a bit), particularily by ODing if your mixing the drugs together.
OH jeeze, the aching ribs are killing me and my sense of humor (bronchitis)
sorry Oak if that was the case
Denise...........P.S. NYgirl, I gotta agree with you on that LOL
sorry Oak if that was the case
Denise...........P.S. NYgirl, I gotta agree with you on that LOL
"help with the aches" and "he might be on to something" .......................your words not mine. "
I am pretty sure Oak was being completely sarcastic (although I have to admit this cure sounds more fun than inf/riba combo ;)
I am pretty sure Oak was being completely sarcastic (although I have to admit this cure sounds more fun than inf/riba combo ;)
Oak, it sounds like you are condoning the use to "help with the aches" and "he might be on to something" .......................your words not mine.
I must say that I absolutely disagree. That stuff will kill you. I dunno, I am at a loss for words. NO, I would not inject drugs or drink while on treatment!!
Ugly, are you looking for someone to condone you continuing use or are you looking for help to maybe quit?
Denise
I must say that I absolutely disagree. That stuff will kill you. I dunno, I am at a loss for words. NO, I would not inject drugs or drink while on treatment!!
Ugly, are you looking for someone to condone you continuing use or are you looking for help to maybe quit?
Denise
I found a recent case study from Clinical Care Options on treatment of a patient who drinks moderately. Here is an excerpt from the discussion.
"...This case also queried whether treatment should be withheld or delayed in a person with ongoing alcohol use. This patient reported moderate alcohol use (2 beers/day), a characteristic that should not be ignored. However, although perceived substance dependence is the major reason HCV patients are denied therapy,[2] available data do not support their exclusion. Studies have indicated that similar SVR rates are achieved among patients completing therapy who use alcohol vs those who do not use alcohol.[3,4] Because of higher discontinuation rates among patients using alcohol while receiving therapy, a more appropriate strategy in these patients may be to address their alcohol use concurrently with beginning treatment. The AASLD HCV guidelines recommend that HCV-infected patients be encouraged to abstain from alcohol consumption but also indicate that treatment is not contraindicated in this population...."
See: http://tinyurl.com/yzkm4ya
Mike
"...This case also queried whether treatment should be withheld or delayed in a person with ongoing alcohol use. This patient reported moderate alcohol use (2 beers/day), a characteristic that should not be ignored. However, although perceived substance dependence is the major reason HCV patients are denied therapy,[2] available data do not support their exclusion. Studies have indicated that similar SVR rates are achieved among patients completing therapy who use alcohol vs those who do not use alcohol.[3,4] Because of higher discontinuation rates among patients using alcohol while receiving therapy, a more appropriate strategy in these patients may be to address their alcohol use concurrently with beginning treatment. The AASLD HCV guidelines recommend that HCV-infected patients be encouraged to abstain from alcohol consumption but also indicate that treatment is not contraindicated in this population...."
See: http://tinyurl.com/yzkm4ya
Mike
Riding the horse is a matter of choice I guess you need to make. The coke may help with the body aches. Say, why not cook and do them together?
Who knows, in the proper amount you may just be on to something which would be a regimen cure for whatever ails you? If nothing else, it might help you break on through to the other side.
Whatever you decide to do, please dispose of needles and/or straws after you're done to avoid possibility of infecting anyone else!
Who knows, in the proper amount you may just be on to something which would be a regimen cure for whatever ails you? If nothing else, it might help you break on through to the other side.
Whatever you decide to do, please dispose of needles and/or straws after you're done to avoid possibility of infecting anyone else!
I didn't mean to imply YOU were an alcoholic but as someone who has had addictive issues myself it's the first thing I thought of.
And yeah Ugly shooting heroin is just fine you can do it as often as you'd like I haven't heard anything about it causing breakthrough either - but I don't think they did any studies except to say that withdrawl is very bad for the meds to work. It's totally up to you what you do with your life. Not us. Good luck with that.
And yeah Ugly shooting heroin is just fine you can do it as often as you'd like I haven't heard anything about it causing breakthrough either - but I don't think they did any studies except to say that withdrawl is very bad for the meds to work. It's totally up to you what you do with your life. Not us. Good luck with that.
What about heroin? can heroin cause a viral "breakthrough"? It calms my nerves and helps me tolerate the side effects. What about it? Is shooting Heroin OK...with maybe a little cocaine, you know-just for fun? I'd really like to know ....
I know the feeling. I too look back at my TX and continue to question whether the outcome would have been different had I been my own advocate earlier and found a doctor more knowledgable in HCV TX before starting.
I went to her on my GP referal because that doctor was relatively close by and in the same provider network. I did not know that an Infectious Disease doctor may not be that knowledgable in HCV TX and it wasn't until I began answering her questions that I realized I probably had the wrong doctor on my team for treating this insideous disease.
Problem was, she already had me cut my Riba 3 weeks into TX as the PI suggested because my Hgb was tanking faster than the Titanic. She apparently was oblivious to the fact that most doctors who know anything about HCV TX turn to rescue meds rather than cutting meds, especially in early stages of TX. About the same time I believe she knew she was in over her had as my drop did not show signs of slowing despite cut in Riba dosage and tried to refer me on to another doctor. However, I had also been doing more research and found a couple of highly qualified doctors here who were pioneers in HCV TX and still very actively involved in research studies being conducted.
Unfortunately, my VL drop from 92 mil to 2 mil in that 4 week period was also sowing signs of significantly slowing down and despite several months of adjusting Procrit and Riba dosages to get back to the fill weight based dosing then starting to be used, it was leveling off from any significant reduction. Needless to say, even after reaching full TX doses of meds for 12 weeks, the VL change reversed and I was pulled from TX when it began to rise again.
I still kick myself from time to time for not getting more info before hand and finding a good doctor prior to begining TX as well as questioning if things might have been different if I had. However, what has been done is done and I realize I can't change it. So continue living life as it is with the disease and stay involved to hopefully help others from making the same mistake I did so that their chances of clearing are better.
Not much more one can do beyond monitoring their condition and stay ahead of any changes. But I do know where you're coming from when it comes to looking back and wondering if somehow something might have been done to change things.
Good to hear infergen is helping and wish you well with it.
I went to her on my GP referal because that doctor was relatively close by and in the same provider network. I did not know that an Infectious Disease doctor may not be that knowledgable in HCV TX and it wasn't until I began answering her questions that I realized I probably had the wrong doctor on my team for treating this insideous disease.
Problem was, she already had me cut my Riba 3 weeks into TX as the PI suggested because my Hgb was tanking faster than the Titanic. She apparently was oblivious to the fact that most doctors who know anything about HCV TX turn to rescue meds rather than cutting meds, especially in early stages of TX. About the same time I believe she knew she was in over her had as my drop did not show signs of slowing despite cut in Riba dosage and tried to refer me on to another doctor. However, I had also been doing more research and found a couple of highly qualified doctors here who were pioneers in HCV TX and still very actively involved in research studies being conducted.
Unfortunately, my VL drop from 92 mil to 2 mil in that 4 week period was also sowing signs of significantly slowing down and despite several months of adjusting Procrit and Riba dosages to get back to the fill weight based dosing then starting to be used, it was leveling off from any significant reduction. Needless to say, even after reaching full TX doses of meds for 12 weeks, the VL change reversed and I was pulled from TX when it began to rise again.
I still kick myself from time to time for not getting more info before hand and finding a good doctor prior to begining TX as well as questioning if things might have been different if I had. However, what has been done is done and I realize I can't change it. So continue living life as it is with the disease and stay involved to hopefully help others from making the same mistake I did so that their chances of clearing are better.
Not much more one can do beyond monitoring their condition and stay ahead of any changes. But I do know where you're coming from when it comes to looking back and wondering if somehow something might have been done to change things.
Good to hear infergen is helping and wish you well with it.
My friend knows I am not an alcoholic, but she doesn't know that I am on treatment, or that I'm fighting hcv. So when I asked if the punch had alcohol in it, she didn't think much about it and said it didn't. I never asked her why she said that, didn't want to raise any issues.
While I have been told by my doctor that drinking alcohol can negatively hurt the efficacy of the meds - I can't imagine a few teaspoons of alcohol could do anything. Seriously I believe that there is just as much alcohol in non-alcoholic beer.
I can't imagine what kind of non-alcohol punch could have a few teaspoons in it? What'd they use grain alcohol? It makes no sense to me - what if the person were an alcoholic?
I can't imagine what kind of non-alcohol punch could have a few teaspoons in it? What'd they use grain alcohol? It makes no sense to me - what if the person were an alcoholic?
Thank you, guys! I was just in a mode of "what have I done wrong". Just have to accept the fact that not everyone responds well. Either way - it looks like I am responding to infergen now. Should think positive now, right :)
While abstinence is strongly encouraged if HCV infected, I have not heard of it compromising ones TX.
The primary reason for abstinence is that alcohol is hard on our livers, and when combined with other things that are also attacking our livers, it weakens it's ability to stave off the attacks.
I have not encountered any evidence that alcohol can interact with the TX meds to make them less effective. So I think the answer would be that most likely did not play a part, or at least any significant part, in the viral breakthrough you experienced.
The fact of the matter is that HCV is a nasty lil bugger which mutates quickly to adapt. I understand that this is part of the reason why even the new meds being added to the cocktail do not appear to being used for full TX as the virus adapts to overcome the block they are throwing against it's reproductive mechanisms.
My suggestion would be to not put yourself through this mental torture of woulda, coulda, shoulda in an attempt to understand why the breakthrough occurred. Another fact of the matter is that part of the reason current regimen is not very effective against Geno1 is that many do experience the breakthrough such as you, and myself too I might add.
If you had been getting sloshed every night or weekend on TX, then I might be inclined to think it may have had some effect. But judging from what you indicated you had, I would say it not as it does not sound more than some people who take communion during TX where alcoholic wine is used as a sacrament.
The primary reason for abstinence is that alcohol is hard on our livers, and when combined with other things that are also attacking our livers, it weakens it's ability to stave off the attacks.
I have not encountered any evidence that alcohol can interact with the TX meds to make them less effective. So I think the answer would be that most likely did not play a part, or at least any significant part, in the viral breakthrough you experienced.
The fact of the matter is that HCV is a nasty lil bugger which mutates quickly to adapt. I understand that this is part of the reason why even the new meds being added to the cocktail do not appear to being used for full TX as the virus adapts to overcome the block they are throwing against it's reproductive mechanisms.
My suggestion would be to not put yourself through this mental torture of woulda, coulda, shoulda in an attempt to understand why the breakthrough occurred. Another fact of the matter is that part of the reason current regimen is not very effective against Geno1 is that many do experience the breakthrough such as you, and myself too I might add.
If you had been getting sloshed every night or weekend on TX, then I might be inclined to think it may have had some effect. But judging from what you indicated you had, I would say it not as it does not sound more than some people who take communion during TX where alcoholic wine is used as a sacrament.
If you only drink little 1 time I don’t think that has anything with your increasing virus load.
I have drink 2-3 beer 2 times and was UD after 4 week. I have been treated in 13weeks now and my responding is so good that I shall only stay at Pegasys and Ribavirin in
24 weeks, and not 48 weeks which they told me first. I had genotype 1 and 2.
I have drink 2-3 beer 2 times and was UD after 4 week. I have been treated in 13weeks now and my responding is so good that I shall only stay at Pegasys and Ribavirin in
24 weeks, and not 48 weeks which they told me first. I had genotype 1 and 2.
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