herpes or not?

[hawaii35]

Hi. I am a 30 yr old female and became pregnant in may 2009.  In June 2009 I became sick.  My doctors did some sort of panel of blood tests to see what I was sick with.  They told me that I tested positive with the herpes virus.  It was the IGM blood test showing that I was newly infected.  I didn't have any symptoms that I thought that related to herpes at that time.  Since September of 2009 I began to have these paper cut sensations on the outer labia and the area right above the clitoris.  These symptoms seem to last 2 weeks or so then start to go away but then return before I seem to get any relief.  I also had one blister that was tingling and painful that lasted about 4 to 5 days in november 2009.  I did not notice any scabs.  After the blister was gone that area of my skin hurt for about a month and a half to 2 months.  I have not had any blisters since then but continue to have these paper cut sensations.  I have had several IGG blood tests since then (the last one was in december 2009) all of these have been negative.  Is this Herpes or some other skin disorder?  If it is another skin disorder do you have any suggestions?  I am so scared and I need closure on this matter.
Thank you.

[2terrified]

Yes, I can see that.  But instead of focusing on the parts that have you worried, try thinking statistically, your testing has shown you being negative. I know we all don't think alike.  That is what is so unique about us humans vs. the rest of the planet. I remember how I felt when I found out I have herpes. It is not easy to deal with having it. So now that you have had multiple negative results, please, live a long, happy, HSV free life!  :-)

[hawaii35]

Thank you grace.  I didn't know that values can fluctuate like that.  To be honest with you i didn't even know before this that you could have a small amount of antibodies (example 0.20) and not be infected.  I just thought one would show 0.00 if they were not infected.

Thank you everyone for your comments all have been very helpful to me.  

To: 2terrified
It is devistating when you don't know for sure.  You feel so lost and confused when you just don't know.  I'd rather know for 100% if i am infected than to be in limbo that would be less devistating.  It is not that I can't accept it, it is also frustrating because then my mind starts to wonder if my spouse cheated on me at the time i had my first igm test positive.  I don't think that he would but when you get tests results like that and you know yourself that you did not do anything wrong it makes you think about your significant other.  Like i said i didn't know anything about hsv that is why i came to this forum.  I needed answers.  When someone tells you that you have something and then tell you that you don't have it, it is hard to train your mind back to not having something.

[gracefromHHP]

Sometimes I do work :)

There is absolutely, positively no significance whatsoever from the changes in your igg results.  You could take the test in the morning for instance and get .45 and take it again at the very same lab that evening and get a .23. Both are clear negatives and the differences in the results are meaningless.

I'm not sure what else I can do to get you to move on from this point forward.  

grace

[2terrified]

I do have a child and I have been living with HSV2 for more than 10 years. I gave birth to him vaginally. He has not been affected.  And just so you know, it is possible for a person to get HSV1 genitally and vice versa, but it is not a common occurrence.

I understand you want to be responsible but if you ask me, you are making much more of this than you need to.  

I hug my son, sleep in the same bed with my him, let him eat and drink after me, etc.  We are big on washing hands and using sanitizer here.  AND I have had outbreaks since he has been born.  My son has not been affected by my infection of the HSV2 virus at all. So, your point about children and keeping them safe has been well taken and is not an issue for me. I don't live my life thinking about the fact I have herpes...

You posted 5 test results in the span of 10 months.  All of which our very own HSV expert Grace has told you are negative. She has tried to get you to understand several times that you don't have it, yet you are still going to test again? She explained how pregnancy can affect the results of the IgM. What is it that still prevents you from moving on from herpes?

You said yourself you were devastated over this...for what? You had doctors who were not as proficient in this as you would think? It happens. All doctors do not know everything about every medical issue.  That is why we seek second opinions.  You have gotten 8 and out of that 8 only 2 gave you information that has caused you to keep thinking about it.  I don't know... I have a hard time understanding why some people have a hard time accepting certain things.  No offense.  I have been posting on MedHelp for a well over a year and It baffles me.

[c84M]

Yes, I know, in fact, I have a similar kind of problem that I'm dealing with myself.  I've had a number of symptoms that I thought might be related to having herpes (intraoral and genital, but not labial, from one girl I was seeing), all of which were dismissed by multiple doctors as being caused by herpes (and I never had unprotected sex, so I tested negative for all other STDs).  Against their advise, I did order the herpes blood test, and it came back positive for HSV1, negative for HSV2.  The problem is that I'm in Canada, and here we don't even get the numerical values in the test result (it's the Immunoblot instead of the ELISA Igg test), and it even takes 3 weeks for them to return the HSV test, so I have no idea how much certainty the test result holds.  I don't recall ever having any typical symptoms, and it is said that the intraoral infection is very rare in the absence of a labial outbreak.  So my symptoms remain unexplained, even with the blood test being positive for HSV1.

I know my mum has had cold sores, but she was always super careful in front of me when she was having any outbreaks.  When thinking about whether I have infected myself through the girl I was seeing, it makes me upset that my mum must have spent so much time and precautions when she was having outbreaks, and yet I might have taken so little care about staying herpes-free myself (thus in some sense, showing unintended disrespect for my mother's efforts).  I wish I would have tested before having any suspicion that I might be infected, then my mind might have been more at rest nowadays.  Reading your comment regarding your concern about spreading herpes to your kids and about giving them the opportunity to decide for themselves whether they want to get it from their BF/GF makes me feel somewhat better (and I still have some hope that the test being positive is a result of some childhood infection that has not manifested in a chronic disease with a clinical presentation, and never will be).  That said, I'm still upset that more adequate tests are not available here, and in-person doctors seem to not care about herpes, especially HSV1.

But from reading your results, I really don't see any conclusive changes in them at all, all are entirely negative.  Dr. HHH mentioned that even testing the same blood sample multiple times will produce different results, so I honestly don't think you have to worry about your tiny fluctuations.  (If still doubtful, you can even show these results to a statistician!)  And genital HSV1 rarely causes much problems anyway, and is not particularly transmittable, especially outside of the sexual contact (e.g. even if you have it, you don't have to worry about getting it to your children).  I suggest you might want to get some further reassurance from Dr. HHH or Dr. Hook in the Expert forum over here, but I think you might as well really stop freaking out about it so much.  Good luck! :-)

[hawaii35]

I am on this forum so that I can better understand hsv.  I didn't know anything about it till recently.  I've never even thought about it or even cared until I had this situation come up with me.  It doesn't bother me like you think.  It bothers me that my doctors tell me plainly that they just don't know.  I have 2 doctors out of 8 that say no i don't have it and others just seem confused by my results.  I am still confused myself. I want to be responsible and take care of my body.  

[hawaii35]

I know this is not going to kill me.  It is the fact that when I have doctors that tell me I do have it then they tell me i don't, also have doctors tell me that everyone in the world has it this it is just so confusing to me.  I want to understand hsv.  I want to be 100% sure that i don't have it because if i end up finding out that i do have it i want to be able to take care of it and take the necessary medications for it.  I want to be able to understand this virus and how to care for myself as well as my spouse.  Which i feel doctors don't really seem to know much about this virus from my experience.  I just feel i need to know the necessary precautions to take for my childrens sake as well.  I don't want my spouse to perform oral on me contract it to his face and then kiss my kids.  That is why this is frustrating.  I don't want my kids to be the victum.  They don't know better when some adult is going to give them a kiss, they just kiss them right back.  They are the victum.  Now if they are teenagers and make this decision on there own when they know someone has this virus then it is their fault not mine.  I don't want to give my kids hsv.  It's like if someone knowingly gives someone else a disease such as hsv or aids that other person is unaware of they are the victum.   And i'm sure if you have kids or if you have kids in the future you would be the same way.

[2terrified]

Here is a suggestion.  Try to think of it another way. The way you are so upset at the thought of having herpes makes me think that you think of herpes much the same way one would think about HIV.  The thing is...if you had it (which you don't obviously as Grace has interpreted your results many times) IT WOULD NOT KILL YOU. It is a nuisance.  I can tell you that personally.  But nothing more.  And if people in society would stop making it seem like having herpes is the end of the world, people like you can handle things like this in a much more positive and non-life altering way.

Because face it... how can you be happy always thinking about this?  It has affected your sex life with your husband.  That in turn can end up affecting your relationship in general. Then that can eventually trickle down to affect your children.  Your children are the most important people in this situation...any situation.  They can sense stress and tension.  (I can tell you that from personal experience also). Live for them and let go of this horrible mistake that doctor made way back when.  It is time to let it go. Live a normal life without HSV.

[hawaii35]

sorry for all the questions i know you are busy.....but i think i should win an award for all the posts....lol

[hawaii35]

yeah i know they do almost look identical but i think they are still going up.  he took the igg test this past week, we are still waiting for the results.  I know he probably should have took the test a long time ago.  It is all just so confusing.  In my opinion, i think that being pregnant the results are just taking longer to show up.   i just feel like we need an answer and to put an end to all of this.  I am definately going to follow up with more tests myself in a couple of months.  If you were to look at these results and have everything happen to you that happended to me don't you agree that you would be cautious until you knew for 100%.  Any idea what would cause a change in results they never seem to go back down to what they were originally in June 2009?  I was also previously tested with my first child for hsv2, like they do with all women who are pregnant and my results were 0.02.  So it was even lower then.

[c84M]

Not to disrupt into your conversation with Grace, but all of these results look almost entirely identical.

BTW, your husband still has never taken the test?

[hawaii35]

ok so i called my doctors on friday which was probably a big mistake.  i was up all last night crying and today too.  I have a copy of all of my blood test results which are as follows.  please let me know what you honestly think...

June 2009 hsv1 0.06
                hsv2 0.03

September 2009 hsv1 0.13
                         hsv2 0.05

November 2009 hsv1 0.06
                       hsv2 0.10

December 2009 hsv1 0.08
                        hsv2 0.08

April 2010 hsv1 0.19
                hsv2 0.17

To me it looks like my antibodies are going up.  What is your opinion on this?  how will i know for 100% if i have this or not?  please give me some advice on these results.  as always thank you so much.

[gracefromHHP]

well you are not upsetting me and if I had issues with your questions, I'd have told you to knock it the heck off ;)

I think the longer you put off resuming sexual relations with your hubby, the harder it will get don't you?    told ya, have a few drinks and go for it :)

grace

[hawaii35]

I am so sorry for all the questions that i've had :(  I don't want to upset anyone.  I just feel so scard. With my inital blood test and doctors who tell me they just don't know.  I want my life back.  I just don't feel like I will ever get it back.  I hate feeling like this.  I never used to be like this.   I am an outgoing, fun, loving type of person.  my husband says he is not worried and that he doesn't think i have type 1 or 2, yet at the same point he is asking me to look at pimples on himself.  That just make me think he is unsure.  This has been such a confusing, upseting and frustrating situation.  I want an end to it, but who knows,  i'll  probably be in limbo forever.
sorry grace :(

[gracefromHHP]

I'm saying if you do have herpes, it's more likely to be hsv1 than hsv2 though really with 4 tests negative for hsv1, it's not even likely that you have hsv1

Honestly sweetie, you need to just stop thinking herpes. odds are whatever went on was just whatever and not herpes.  it's time to get your life back.

grace

[hawaii35]

so basically your saying that I could most likely have hsv1, and my blood test could not be picking up the IGG's?  I just wish I had a culture done on that one blister/bump I told you about.  I'm sorry I don't want to sound stupid, but I just am so devistated by all of this.  I've been together with my spouse for 10 years now, and I am just so confused by all of this.  I don't want to transfer anything to my children.  I'm affraid to even kiss them.  I know all of my doctors say all of america has this....I've heard that from a lot of people, but I don't want to be the mom who gives this to her child.  When my kids are teenagers and they get it from a boyfriend or girlfriend, it was their decision.  I don't want that to hang over my head that I gave it to them.  :(

[gracefromHHP]

here's my take on things, if you have genital herpes, you either got it from your partner or you had it prior to him. you've been having unprotected sex all this time, why change anything now? if it is hsv1 genitally, the odds of transmission are very , very low that you'd pass it on to him if he didn't have it.  I'd just avoid sex whenever things aren't feeling right down yonder and take no other precautions. the same precautions most of us take in general when we think we have a vaginitis or something going on.  

the only way to diagnose hsv1 genitally accurately is from a lesion culture of actual symptoms. unless you get a recurrence of symptoms, no way to test for that.  

[hawaii35]

also, in addition to my previous post.  do u think it would be safe to have unprotected oral sex.  or should we be doing something to be safe for a while?  thank u.  

[hawaii35]

I know that I do.  But I am soo scared at this point.  I know you have spent a lot of time answering my questions.  And it is so grately appreciated especally when doctors don't know or give vague answers.  Also, what are the chances this was hsv1 since what I have read on this forum that 1 out of 10 people are missed as having hsv1.  I just don't want to find out 5 years 10 years or even 15 years later that i have hsv genitally like I have read on this forum.  I really need your advice grace.  Thank you very much.

[gracefromHHP]

only something like 2% of folks who have hsv2 , won't test accurately on the blood tests. it happens but not enough to worry too much about.

you need to get herpes off your brain at this point dear :)

grace

[hawaii35]

grace,
I am still so scared.  I don't know what to do.  I had this stupid tingling painful bump on my skin back in november that I told you about.  And it is still on my mind.  :(  If I didn't have it cultured, how do I know for sure that it wasn't herpes?  Do I just wait to see if I get another one some day in the future?  If so how long would that take?  I know that I have had several blood tests done, but I read somewhere online that in pregnant women it can take a really long time for antibodies to build up.  my antibody levels were:
hsv1:   IGG 0.19
hsv 2:  IGG 0.17
Is it at all possible that I am a carrier of this disease and just didn't build up antibodies?  Should I go and see someone who is a specialist in this field or should I have the WB test done or Biokit that I see everyone talking about on this forum?  I just want to be safe.  Please help.  Thank you so much AGAIN. :)

[gracefromHHP]

no I don't think you have slipped off the deep end yet...lol.  I had genital issues myself that took me over a year to figure out what in the world was going on and another 4 years to control and be symptom free most of the time. it's frustrating as hell.  I had had hsv2 for 16 years at that point so I knew it wasn't herpes going on.  I was without a partner for part of that time so it made the no sex part easier since I was rarely in the mood myself due to my genital area feeling raw 24/7.     I also am a mom and still remember the days when sex was last thing on my mind too....lol.  you really do need reminded to take time as an adult, something I never really learned until my kids were almost teens.  I still  have to  be reminded that I have a duty to be a gf too sometimes - far too easy to forget to make us time ( kids are way too old now and they know EXACTLY what is going on in that bedroom plus they stay up way later than we do....lol ).  

grace

[hawaii35]

Thank you.  Thank you. Thank you.  I'm sure you are thinking right now...good grief what is wrong with this woman.  I won't be offended if you do indeed think that.  I am not typically like this.  No one in my family or my friends know what has been going on with me in the last 10 months besides my husband.  It has all been so frustrating not to have anyone else to talk with and you don't even know how much this has ment to me for you to talk with me about all of this.  Really you are a complete stranger to me and I am a stranger to you, but yet you are so caring and kind to talk with me about all this.  I know you are not a replacement for a therapist, but when doctors give you such vague answers to questions it is nice to see someone who cares and will be straight with you.  I feel like I spend my free time (ex:  when my kids are asleep) reading this forum and seeing what other people are going though.  It has all been so helpful.  I am glad that these forums do exist.  I know I need to reconnect with my husband again.  This was just such a messed up situation with me.  We did have a night out about a month ago, but I couldn't get this whole experience out of my head the whole time we were out.  Hopefully things will turn around soon.  And I mean REALLY SOON before my husband divorces me.  (not because he thinks I may have had herpes)  But because I have been so freaked out the last 10 months.  

I'll probably still watch this forum for a while and I still may have more questions.  I don't know.  So thank you again Grace.  

[gracefromHHP]

no it will not.

you hadn't had sex in *gulp* 10 months. the igm was totally inappropriate with your last test because it was IMPOSSIBLE FOR IT TO  BE A NEWLY ACQUIRED INFECTION for you.  getting a + igm just reaffirms what we tell folks here all the time - it's falsely + 1/3 of the time. You are so damn lucky you had it be falsely + at least twice now!

No idea what made you sick in June. I'm guessing all the genital skin issues from september on were due to a combination of pregnancy hormones, weight gain, clothing not fitting so well any more etc from the sounds of things.   At this point, pick either your gyn or the dermatologist for continued follow up. get tested for yeast and bacterial infections vaginally.  no just throwing something at you and hope it works at this point, they need to do actual testing. Your biopsy was negative which most of the time means it's just irritated skin more than anything.  

Also I highly recommend getting a baby sitter ( I'm sure you can find plenty of people willing to take your baby over night ) and you and your hubby just have a night alone.  Even if you are breast feeding, a glass or two of wine for one night will be fine!  I recommend the wine to help relax you. You've been busy chasing after at least 1 child, dealing with all of this stuff going on and it's going to take a little bit to get you to even begin to think sexy thoughts again!!!  Spend a night just the two of you and try to start regaining the "sexy" part of you again :)  It's hard when the baby is so little I know - typically it's one of the last things on your mind....lol.  really though I think you both probably need it at this point  and it'll be a nice way to start reconnecting with that part of yourself and your relationship with your husband again :)

grace