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LOW CARB or LOW FAT?
Wut is healthier? A low carb diet or a low fat diet? Wuts the diff anyway? I'm a vegetarian, wut diet is best for me to get all the nutrients i need.
"“while the body does end up USING fat in carb-starvation mode, it cannot rely primarily on it, as protein forms the source for all the glucose the body needs to maintain nerve and brain functioning."
Carb-starvation does not equal food starvation. Ingesting sufficient amounts of protein means there is plenty of protein for the body to take up and convert to blood sugar as well as the other functions it has, such as building new muscle.
Glad to hear you like your nervous system, but you really don’t give human physiology and the human body enough credit for being able to multi-task, do you? Carb starvation is not food starvation. That’s why a low-carb diet is superior to a high-carb one – protein remains adequate at the same time that insulin stays LOW – that’s the duo you want. As long as insulin levels remain low, it is difficult to store fat. That's why low-carb diets work so well - maintaining muscle mass while burning body fat at the same time. When LC diets go head-to-head with high-carb diets, the LC dieters always lose more weight in the same time period. Always. But something else also happens: They lose more body fat and less muscle compared to the high-carb dieters. High-carb dieters lose something like 25-35% of their weight in muscle mass. Low-carb eaters lose much less muscle mass. Must be something to that, "micaela." What do you think it is? Could it be....higher protein levels? Fewer carbs?
"you also said "You'll get all the nutrients you need on a low-carb diet."
i beg to differ. you'll get all the nutrients you need if you're EATING all the nutrients you need (including glucose and starches). to say that cutting way back on carbs is some magical all-inclusive dietary solution is foolish at best, and i do not agree with your statement whatsoever. not all low carb diets are the same and you can't be sure that the original poster would be getting everything s/he needed by following your advice. how presumptuous of you!"
Caps key broken? Sorry, but your "facts" aren't specific to low-carb diet, as much as you'd love them to be. Low- carb, high-carb, medium-carb, no-carb. You can find lower-nutrient food in all levels of macronutrient intakes. Big deal. If you are telling me that people on high-carb diets always get adequate nutrients because it’s a “magical all-inclusive dietary solution,” you’ve got your head you-know-where. Try again.
I would also argue that it’s more difficult to get all of the required nutrients on a high-carb diet than on a low-carb diet. Ever seen the USDA “Pyramid?” Yeah, you were probably well-schooled in that pyramid scheme. The Pyramid is completely fraudulent. There are now reputable physicians, like Willett at Harvard and Bray at the Pennington Center, who are denouncing the “Pyramid.” And these aren’t even the folks who publicly support low-carb diets. (Although Willett did come out and say that there was merit to a very low-carb diet, which on its face is amazing, considering the source.) The USDA Pyramid is bogus. Yeah, that Pyramid. The one you were "schooled" in, no doubt.
"furthermore, you said "On low-carb, your blood sugar stays more stable because you are not ingesting carbs (glucose) that cause the swings in the first place."
1) on a low carb diet your blood stays ACIDIC, which is highly dangerous and not at all how our bodies are meant to operate."
You went from blood sugar to bloodstream – must be your ADD kicking in. Try to stay on point here. But I’ll play along, just for sh*ts and giggles:
Sounds like you didn’t get the memo – low carb diets don’t contribute to bone loss. I assume you are citing the so-called danger of blood acidity on a low-carb diet to equate it with the concern of bone loss. Well, guess what? It doesn’t happen. Compared to a high-carb diet, low-carb diets showed no measurable difference in bone turnover. Surprised even the researchers, that one did. You can google that one. It’s all over the tubes. Nice try, though.
"2) ingesting glucose does NOT cause a blood sugar swing. hormones (insulin and glucagon) are responsible for blood sugar levels and implying that dietary sugars do is a real measure of your own education, or lack thereof. "
It’s common knowledge (and not rocket science) that consuming more calories in the form of carbs stimulates insulin production to increase blood sugars. What’s the unintended consequence here? More hunger due to highs and lows in blood sugar, which increases calorie consumption, leading to more ingestion of carbs. It’s a vicious cycle, one that you promote with a high-carb diet.
And stop fooling folks into thinking there are “good” and “bad” carbs. There are simply carbs. Some provide nutrients with small amounts of carbs, and some are nutritionally bankrupt or simply providing too many carbs. Simple and complex carbs are metabolized exactly the same by the body – metabolized to glucose. One is done faster than the other (that would be the fiber angle, right?), but all carbs are processed EXACTLY THE SAME once ingested.
Eating too many complex carbs results in the same blood glucose levels as eating too many refined and simple carbs. And both require more insulin to stabilize blood sugar.
How long are you going to foist this nutritionally inadequate and deadly diet on folks, “micaela?” How long do you think people’s metabolisms can withstand the highs and lows of blood sugar swings before insulin resistance sets in? Here’s your answer: Most people can’t, and we are seeing the results of this in the epidemics of diabetes, heart disease, and obesity. The body becomes compromised when you assault it day after day with foods that fail to allow it to function properly and in fact cause further damage to it.
“the epidemic numbers of obesity are directly related to caloric consumption in general, not the macronutrient profile of specific diets.”
You still want to ignore the elephant in the room – insulin. Excessive carb consumption causes unstable blood sugars and insulin resistance. That causes increased hunger, which again leads to higher calorie intakes. If people cut the carbs, appetite is naturally controlled. That leads to natural calorie control. That leads to weight loss. And macronutrients have EVERYTHING to do with that. But you go right ahead and ignore it.
Did you know that before insulin was “invented,” the medical remedy for diabetes was to put the patient on a restricted-carb diet? Did they tell you that in Mail Order School? Probably not. Why do you think that was, “micaela?” What do you think the medical folks knew back then that you refuse to recognize? Take a guess.
We are not adapted to eating large amounts of carbs. That’s from an evolutionary standpoint. We are adapted for high-fat moderate-protein diets, with low or no carbs. That’s what we evolved to eat. It’s what controls our insulin better than any other plan you could possibly recommend. High carb diets are being implicated in atherogenesis. Insulin is an incredibly powerful hormone – just look at the damage diabetes does to people. Organ damage, nerve damage. It is also related to heart (muscle) damage – atherosclerosis. Our systems can’t handle it. The blowback from a high-carb diet is huge. Weight gain, ongoing hunger in trying to control calorie intake while at the same time not understanding that the foods we are using for “dieting” are the cause of the problem in the first place - and “nutritionists” like you who continue to push high-carb and “low fat” diets as some kind of panacea but making the problem worse.
I think the results of this phony b.s. “low-fat” “high-carb” experiment speak for themselves – after 40 years of foisting high carbs on the western world, the blowback is obvious: heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and more.
But, hey, that sheepskin gives you the "authority," so who am I to be messing with a real live "nutritionist?" Yeesh.
Carb-starvation does not equal food starvation. Ingesting sufficient amounts of protein means there is plenty of protein for the body to take up and convert to blood sugar as well as the other functions it has, such as building new muscle.
Glad to hear you like your nervous system, but you really don’t give human physiology and the human body enough credit for being able to multi-task, do you? Carb starvation is not food starvation. That’s why a low-carb diet is superior to a high-carb one – protein remains adequate at the same time that insulin stays LOW – that’s the duo you want. As long as insulin levels remain low, it is difficult to store fat. That's why low-carb diets work so well - maintaining muscle mass while burning body fat at the same time. When LC diets go head-to-head with high-carb diets, the LC dieters always lose more weight in the same time period. Always. But something else also happens: They lose more body fat and less muscle compared to the high-carb dieters. High-carb dieters lose something like 25-35% of their weight in muscle mass. Low-carb eaters lose much less muscle mass. Must be something to that, "micaela." What do you think it is? Could it be....higher protein levels? Fewer carbs?
"you also said "You'll get all the nutrients you need on a low-carb diet."
i beg to differ. you'll get all the nutrients you need if you're EATING all the nutrients you need (including glucose and starches). to say that cutting way back on carbs is some magical all-inclusive dietary solution is foolish at best, and i do not agree with your statement whatsoever. not all low carb diets are the same and you can't be sure that the original poster would be getting everything s/he needed by following your advice. how presumptuous of you!"
Caps key broken? Sorry, but your "facts" aren't specific to low-carb diet, as much as you'd love them to be. Low- carb, high-carb, medium-carb, no-carb. You can find lower-nutrient food in all levels of macronutrient intakes. Big deal. If you are telling me that people on high-carb diets always get adequate nutrients because it’s a “magical all-inclusive dietary solution,” you’ve got your head you-know-where. Try again.
I would also argue that it’s more difficult to get all of the required nutrients on a high-carb diet than on a low-carb diet. Ever seen the USDA “Pyramid?” Yeah, you were probably well-schooled in that pyramid scheme. The Pyramid is completely fraudulent. There are now reputable physicians, like Willett at Harvard and Bray at the Pennington Center, who are denouncing the “Pyramid.” And these aren’t even the folks who publicly support low-carb diets. (Although Willett did come out and say that there was merit to a very low-carb diet, which on its face is amazing, considering the source.) The USDA Pyramid is bogus. Yeah, that Pyramid. The one you were "schooled" in, no doubt.
"furthermore, you said "On low-carb, your blood sugar stays more stable because you are not ingesting carbs (glucose) that cause the swings in the first place."
1) on a low carb diet your blood stays ACIDIC, which is highly dangerous and not at all how our bodies are meant to operate."
You went from blood sugar to bloodstream – must be your ADD kicking in. Try to stay on point here. But I’ll play along, just for sh*ts and giggles:
Sounds like you didn’t get the memo – low carb diets don’t contribute to bone loss. I assume you are citing the so-called danger of blood acidity on a low-carb diet to equate it with the concern of bone loss. Well, guess what? It doesn’t happen. Compared to a high-carb diet, low-carb diets showed no measurable difference in bone turnover. Surprised even the researchers, that one did. You can google that one. It’s all over the tubes. Nice try, though.
"2) ingesting glucose does NOT cause a blood sugar swing. hormones (insulin and glucagon) are responsible for blood sugar levels and implying that dietary sugars do is a real measure of your own education, or lack thereof. "
It’s common knowledge (and not rocket science) that consuming more calories in the form of carbs stimulates insulin production to increase blood sugars. What’s the unintended consequence here? More hunger due to highs and lows in blood sugar, which increases calorie consumption, leading to more ingestion of carbs. It’s a vicious cycle, one that you promote with a high-carb diet.
And stop fooling folks into thinking there are “good” and “bad” carbs. There are simply carbs. Some provide nutrients with small amounts of carbs, and some are nutritionally bankrupt or simply providing too many carbs. Simple and complex carbs are metabolized exactly the same by the body – metabolized to glucose. One is done faster than the other (that would be the fiber angle, right?), but all carbs are processed EXACTLY THE SAME once ingested.
Eating too many complex carbs results in the same blood glucose levels as eating too many refined and simple carbs. And both require more insulin to stabilize blood sugar.
How long are you going to foist this nutritionally inadequate and deadly diet on folks, “micaela?” How long do you think people’s metabolisms can withstand the highs and lows of blood sugar swings before insulin resistance sets in? Here’s your answer: Most people can’t, and we are seeing the results of this in the epidemics of diabetes, heart disease, and obesity. The body becomes compromised when you assault it day after day with foods that fail to allow it to function properly and in fact cause further damage to it.
“the epidemic numbers of obesity are directly related to caloric consumption in general, not the macronutrient profile of specific diets.”
You still want to ignore the elephant in the room – insulin. Excessive carb consumption causes unstable blood sugars and insulin resistance. That causes increased hunger, which again leads to higher calorie intakes. If people cut the carbs, appetite is naturally controlled. That leads to natural calorie control. That leads to weight loss. And macronutrients have EVERYTHING to do with that. But you go right ahead and ignore it.
Did you know that before insulin was “invented,” the medical remedy for diabetes was to put the patient on a restricted-carb diet? Did they tell you that in Mail Order School? Probably not. Why do you think that was, “micaela?” What do you think the medical folks knew back then that you refuse to recognize? Take a guess.
We are not adapted to eating large amounts of carbs. That’s from an evolutionary standpoint. We are adapted for high-fat moderate-protein diets, with low or no carbs. That’s what we evolved to eat. It’s what controls our insulin better than any other plan you could possibly recommend. High carb diets are being implicated in atherogenesis. Insulin is an incredibly powerful hormone – just look at the damage diabetes does to people. Organ damage, nerve damage. It is also related to heart (muscle) damage – atherosclerosis. Our systems can’t handle it. The blowback from a high-carb diet is huge. Weight gain, ongoing hunger in trying to control calorie intake while at the same time not understanding that the foods we are using for “dieting” are the cause of the problem in the first place - and “nutritionists” like you who continue to push high-carb and “low fat” diets as some kind of panacea but making the problem worse.
I think the results of this phony b.s. “low-fat” “high-carb” experiment speak for themselves – after 40 years of foisting high carbs on the western world, the blowback is obvious: heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and more.
But, hey, that sheepskin gives you the "authority," so who am I to be messing with a real live "nutritionist?" Yeesh.
oh, and sweetheart?? i know exactly what i'm talking about when i compare ketosis and ketoacidosis. while you were signing up for Atkins emails, i was spending 4 years studying this stuff in a reputable 4 year institution. i said what i meant in your ridiculous "cholesterol con" propaganda post and if you didn't understand, it's probably because you've been so brainwashed that you can't see the medical truth in what i'm saying.
good luck to you because with a perspective like yours - you'll need all the luck you can get.
good luck to you because with a perspective like yours - you'll need all the luck you can get.
barnbabe, you said "If you don't ingest any glucose, you are running primarily on body fat."
let me copy for you word-for-word a section from one on my textbooks (that, according to you i purchased to attain my degree at the "Mail Order School"):
"Body protein can be converted to glucose to some extent, but protein has jobs of its own that no other nutrient can do. Body fat cannot be converted to glucose to any significant extent, and although fat breakdown can yield energy for many of the body's cells, only glucose can provide energy for brain cells, other nerve cells, and developing red blood cells. Thus, when a person does not replenish depleted goycogen stores by eating carbohydrates, body proteins are dismantled to make glucose to fuel these special cells. The conversation of protein to glucose is called gluconeogenesis - literally, the making of new glucose. Only adequate dietary carbohydrate can prevent this use of protein for energy, and this role of carbohydrate is known as its protein-sparing action.
An inadequate supply of carbohydrate combined with an accelerated breakdown of fat can shift the body's energy metabolism in a precarious direction. With less carbohydrate available for energy, more fat may be broken down, but not all the way to energy. Instead, the fat fragements combine with each other, forming ketone bodies. Muscles and other tissues can use ketone bodies for energy, but when their production exceeds their use, they accumolate in the blood, causing ketosis, a condition that dusturbs the body's normal acid-base balance."
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while the body does end up USING fat in carb-starvation mode, it cannot rely primarily on it, as protein forms the source for all the glucose the body needs to maintain nerve and brain functioning. i don't know about you, but i rely on my nervous system pretty heavily day to day, and am not willing to cheat it of the vital glucose it requires.
you also said "You'll get all the nutrients you need on a low-carb diet."
i beg to differ. you'll get all the nutrients you need if you're EATING all the nutrients you need (including glucose and starches). to say that cutting way back on carbs is some magical all-inclusive dietary solution is foolish at best, and i do not agree with your statement whatsoever. not all low carb diets are the same and you can't be sure that the original poster would be getting everything s/he needed by following your advice. how presumptuous of you!
furthermore, you said "On low-carb, your blood sugar stays more stable because you are not ingesting carbs (glucose) that cause the swings in the first place."
let me correct you.
1) on a low carb diet your blood stays ACIDIC, which is highly dangerous and not at all how our bodies are meant to operate.
2) ingesting glucose does NOT cause a blood sugar swing. hormones (insulin and glucagon) are responsible for blood sugar levels and implying that dietary sugars do is a real measure of your own education, or lack thereof.
finally... you said "The low-fat diet is a discredited fraud that has been perpetrated on the American public for 40 years, and look where it's got us - epidemic numbers of obesity and diabetes."
the epidemic numbers of obesity are directly related to caloric consumption in general, not the macronutrient profile of specific diets. Diabetes Type II is directly related to weight gain and, as such, is linked to this same trend, which has absolutely no correlation to low fat diets. The fact is, people who intentionally eat a low fat diet most often gorge themselves on higher sugar foods, thereby causing a weight gain and increasing their chances of dabetes. your extrapolation that low fat diets are the cause of our obesity epidemic and diabetic explosion is mind boggling.
let me copy for you word-for-word a section from one on my textbooks (that, according to you i purchased to attain my degree at the "Mail Order School"):
"Body protein can be converted to glucose to some extent, but protein has jobs of its own that no other nutrient can do. Body fat cannot be converted to glucose to any significant extent, and although fat breakdown can yield energy for many of the body's cells, only glucose can provide energy for brain cells, other nerve cells, and developing red blood cells. Thus, when a person does not replenish depleted goycogen stores by eating carbohydrates, body proteins are dismantled to make glucose to fuel these special cells. The conversation of protein to glucose is called gluconeogenesis - literally, the making of new glucose. Only adequate dietary carbohydrate can prevent this use of protein for energy, and this role of carbohydrate is known as its protein-sparing action.
An inadequate supply of carbohydrate combined with an accelerated breakdown of fat can shift the body's energy metabolism in a precarious direction. With less carbohydrate available for energy, more fat may be broken down, but not all the way to energy. Instead, the fat fragements combine with each other, forming ketone bodies. Muscles and other tissues can use ketone bodies for energy, but when their production exceeds their use, they accumolate in the blood, causing ketosis, a condition that dusturbs the body's normal acid-base balance."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
while the body does end up USING fat in carb-starvation mode, it cannot rely primarily on it, as protein forms the source for all the glucose the body needs to maintain nerve and brain functioning. i don't know about you, but i rely on my nervous system pretty heavily day to day, and am not willing to cheat it of the vital glucose it requires.
you also said "You'll get all the nutrients you need on a low-carb diet."
i beg to differ. you'll get all the nutrients you need if you're EATING all the nutrients you need (including glucose and starches). to say that cutting way back on carbs is some magical all-inclusive dietary solution is foolish at best, and i do not agree with your statement whatsoever. not all low carb diets are the same and you can't be sure that the original poster would be getting everything s/he needed by following your advice. how presumptuous of you!
furthermore, you said "On low-carb, your blood sugar stays more stable because you are not ingesting carbs (glucose) that cause the swings in the first place."
let me correct you.
1) on a low carb diet your blood stays ACIDIC, which is highly dangerous and not at all how our bodies are meant to operate.
2) ingesting glucose does NOT cause a blood sugar swing. hormones (insulin and glucagon) are responsible for blood sugar levels and implying that dietary sugars do is a real measure of your own education, or lack thereof.
finally... you said "The low-fat diet is a discredited fraud that has been perpetrated on the American public for 40 years, and look where it's got us - epidemic numbers of obesity and diabetes."
the epidemic numbers of obesity are directly related to caloric consumption in general, not the macronutrient profile of specific diets. Diabetes Type II is directly related to weight gain and, as such, is linked to this same trend, which has absolutely no correlation to low fat diets. The fact is, people who intentionally eat a low fat diet most often gorge themselves on higher sugar foods, thereby causing a weight gain and increasing their chances of dabetes. your extrapolation that low fat diets are the cause of our obesity epidemic and diabetic explosion is mind boggling.
Low carb is much better than low fat. You want to eat fats like fish, nuts, and olive oil. It helps your hair, nails, eyes, skin, brain and many other things. If low carbs is where you want to go that is fine but still eat your greens. And remember there is a BIG difference on how your body reacts to certain carbs like wheat versis rice.
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