Anyone have experience with dry needling?

[kindastuck35]

Been thru a lot over 10 yrs. of back problems and neck problems.  I have posted on the addiction forum when I was getting a little tired of needing pain meds and a bit shocked at the feeling of trying to quit.  None-the-less, the latest addition to my afflictions is that I have been told I have C6 impingement requiring disc replacement. Doesn't seem like it's been approved in US but is done off label anyway.  I may be wrong.  I suffer from right cervical radiculapathy (among other things like t11-t12 compression fractures and left hip fracture) that my latest venture to avoid this surgery brought me back to a specialized PT facility called Spinal Dynamics.  I've been told I would most likely benefit fron dry needling as the PT stated I have as much or more nerve compression in my muscles this nerve travels thru as I do from disc herniations shown on MRI. My arm isn't painful as much as it is numb.  I've been told I have multiple trigger point that can be released through dry needling.  Anyone here have any positive experiences with this procedure?  I really prefer not to have my cervical disc obliterated and replaced with hardware that has no long term studies available. ESI's, accupuncture, chiropracty, TENS haven't helped.

[rossw82]

Sorry to hear about everything you have been through.
As a allied heath professional (in Australia) I commonly practice myofacial dry needling on my patients. The reason, as I see it, that you will be recommended dry needling will be 2 fold. The first will be to help deactivate those trigger points that have been caused by muscle imbalances that will cause some muscle to work harder then they should, unable to take the extra load, the trigger points form. The second reason may be too help with muscle innovation. To wake muscle up that are inactive, or reduced in neural activity. Another technique that may be used is electro-dry needling. This is fantastic for deactivating learnt pain patterns, muscle innervation, decreased muscle tension as well as deactivating those trigger points.

Hopefully this msg finds you in a better state then when you first posted, having tried dry needling!

Ross

[kindastuck35]

It's been a while but I wanted to report that dry needling definitely improved numbness in arm when combined with PT and posture correction. Still have to see if EMG shows any difference as to point of origin in loss of conduction and if it has changed for the better, worse, or stayed the same.  Anyone needing more info, let me know.  It was an unexpected, good experience. Hope it can manage condition without disc replacement.

[Tuckamore]

I am delighted that you are confident with your PT. That is so important. I've heard good things about the clinic.

It can be confusing when trying to decide which is the best route for us. I do think you are doing it right.... you're comfortable with the PT who seems very intelligent and knowledge. I'd give him an opportunity to see of this will be an effective treatment for you. You can always change your mind or go another route if this proves ineffective.

Sometimes the all the information out there just produces an over-load. Some where many of us lost our faith in medical science and we think we have to make all the decisions. Well in my opinion we've gone too far the other way.... we are not Physicians. It behooves us to find one that we trust and work with them in the decision making process.

Years ago we were uneducated in the choices available and allowed our PCP to make all the decisions. That was not desirable either. That's why I prefer the "partnership"  approach in our health care. Those are just my thoughts. We have to do what's right for us.

Please keep us updated. I'll be very interested to learn how you are doing... and what you think of the treatment/procedure.

Peace,
~Tuck  

[kindastuck35]

Hi Tuck,  I am currently seeking help at Spinal Dynamics in Milwaukee.  Have gotten consultation and exam by a specially trained PT who in my opinion is one of the most up front, knowledgeable, and yet realistic care providers I've come across with honesty in what is possible and that treatments that don't work require reevaluation and possible new approaches.  Unlike the neurologists and surgeons, and even chiros I've seen who have had the one and only answer. I wish I could find someone who has had DNT without injection to elicit a twitch response.  I'm getting confused on which way to go, but PT is the least invasive (compared to disc replacement) and I look forward to learning specific exercises designed for me and the issues with my back and neck.

[Tuckamore]

Hello Kindastuck ... my fellow Wisconsinite!!

Sorry I am tardy to your post. I don't know what information mkh offered you via PM.

There ARE Medical Providers that perform Dry Needling Technique (DNT).

I don't know your location in Wisconsin. However there are several groups of Physical Therapist that provide Intramuscular Stimulation (IMS) -- also known as trigger point Dry Needling Technique (DNT.) It's known by several names.

Dry Needling is just a western form of "Acupuncture."  However it would not be correct to call DNT a true Acupuncture as it's basis it different. They do not believe in the traditional meridians nor do they believe in  "Chi" (life force).

It's performed by mostly by Physical Therapists in our state... so you may be looking in the wrong field of specialty. There are several cities  where this treatment is available including Appleton, Green Bay and Milwaukee.

I hope this information was helpful. Please share with us your experience with DNT.... you can be our "specialist."  :o)

Peace,
~Tuck

[mkh9]

Hi I just got the post. I will message you shortly.
mkh9

[kindastuck35]

I would certainly appreciate the information.  thank you!

[mkh9]

Yes I haven't had found any in my area either. You can get a cortisone injection with lidocaine into the trigger point. I went to an integrative pain medicine doctor for mine. He does trigger point with natural meds too and more often than with cortisone. See if you have one in your area. I wonder if you have CRPS in that arm or RSD?  I read a couple of good books on these sort of things if you are interested I'll send the names etc. to you via message.
mkh9

[kindastuck35]

Yes, I have carpal tunnel also, but EMG shows diminished nerve conduction from C6 also.  Numbness is along the underside/inside of my upper and lower arm. MD doesn't believe it's due to ulnar nerve entrapment in elbow. Not finding a lot of  people who have had this dry needling done.

[mkh9]

Oh, also, as for the numbness where is it located in your arm? Could it be carpal tunnel? Sometimes there is nerve entrapment that can make your whole arm have a problem
mkh9

[mkh9]

I have had trigger point injections but only with a steroid and lidocaine. It didn't work for me but the doctor didn't look for the twich response. If this person can feel this "twitch resonse' then the PT will have a good idea as to where to needle. It can work but sometimes you need several tries on different days to get it to work. I don't know why the steroid didn't work and as for the needling I should go back and try again. It may hurt when they do it but if it releases the mucsle knot then you will have great relief in that one spot. I don't know abo
ut the blood vessels in this case. But when you have scar tissue a lot of things get caught up in it. I sure hope it works for you. Please message me and let me know how it went as I have had pain for two years and even have a muscle knot in my neck that just came up . as well as the main problem, low back pain.
Best of luck with this.
mkh9

[kindastuck35]

That's exactly what it's being done for, to release those trigger points which I apparently have a lot of.  It's is a specially trained individual who would do this who also happens to be one of the most knowledgable physical therapists I have ever talked to.  I was told that even my radial pulse disappears when my arm and shoulder are moved into certain postions.  These trigger points of contracted bundles of actin and myosin fibers when numerous enough can compress the nerves/blood vessels as I understood it. Or am I completely misunderstanding?  I have done heavy labor for many years in the summer.

[mkh9]

Hi and so sorry for all you have been through. I have only heard of dry needling for myofasical pain trigger points not for what you mentioned. I wouldn't have a PT do it if you did have it done I would have a doctor do it.
mkh9