Aa
preparing for my endo referral in 2 days...
Hey everyone,
Wondered if anyone can help me in what the important things to stress to the endocrinologist i am seeing this thursday are:
The history of my TSH levels are:
Dec 2008: 7.5
Feb 2009: 5.8
May 2009: 5.7
September 2009: 7.2
October 2009: 5.7
obviously they are not consistant, I have just had my Thyroid antibodies tested and the levels are normal- ruling out anything autoimmune. I have had a full blood work done for which everything else was ok.
I have over the last year suffered from: muscle weakness, tiredness, bad joint pain, extreme coldness in feet hands and nose, have gone from u.k size 4 to u.k size 8 (which doesnt bother me as i have always been too thin!), a very slight numbess in my left leg (and sometimes in my left arm), irregular periods (that are heavier than they used to be), TMJ pain (dont know if this is related or independent from thyroid problems), noticed a lot of hair falls out in the shower and when brushing, brittle nails, dry itchy eyes, vertigo (although i feel this is more related to my TMJ and grinding my teeth in my sleep).
my main worry is that my G.P keeps saying, oh, your not much over the lab range (which upper limit is 5.5) and i get so annoyed as it is still over the threshold, even if 'not by much'. She keeps trying to prescribe me mild forms of an antidepressant for my anxiety, but i keep trying to tell her that I seem so anxious because I have been feeling like this for a YEAR now and no one is doing anything.
I am worried the endo will say the same thing? Does anyone know whether they use more sensitive lab ranges or will maybe trial me on some kind of meds? I am just wondering what to expect really, and if anyone has any advice as to what I can say to insist my case.
thanks in advance for any help anyone can give,
Clare :-)
Wondered if anyone can help me in what the important things to stress to the endocrinologist i am seeing this thursday are:
The history of my TSH levels are:
Dec 2008: 7.5
Feb 2009: 5.8
May 2009: 5.7
September 2009: 7.2
October 2009: 5.7
obviously they are not consistant, I have just had my Thyroid antibodies tested and the levels are normal- ruling out anything autoimmune. I have had a full blood work done for which everything else was ok.
I have over the last year suffered from: muscle weakness, tiredness, bad joint pain, extreme coldness in feet hands and nose, have gone from u.k size 4 to u.k size 8 (which doesnt bother me as i have always been too thin!), a very slight numbess in my left leg (and sometimes in my left arm), irregular periods (that are heavier than they used to be), TMJ pain (dont know if this is related or independent from thyroid problems), noticed a lot of hair falls out in the shower and when brushing, brittle nails, dry itchy eyes, vertigo (although i feel this is more related to my TMJ and grinding my teeth in my sleep).
my main worry is that my G.P keeps saying, oh, your not much over the lab range (which upper limit is 5.5) and i get so annoyed as it is still over the threshold, even if 'not by much'. She keeps trying to prescribe me mild forms of an antidepressant for my anxiety, but i keep trying to tell her that I seem so anxious because I have been feeling like this for a YEAR now and no one is doing anything.
I am worried the endo will say the same thing? Does anyone know whether they use more sensitive lab ranges or will maybe trial me on some kind of meds? I am just wondering what to expect really, and if anyone has any advice as to what I can say to insist my case.
thanks in advance for any help anyone can give,
Clare :-)
I'm a little worried about your FT3 level, too. I don't understand why they didn't test it in July when it was above range in May. They should have followed up on that.
You might want to do some reading on T3 toxicosis and Hashimoto's toxicosis. As antobodies attack the thyroid and cells die, they sometimes "dump" thyroid hormone into the bloodstream, causing FT3 levels to rise. T3 toxicosis can be a serious condition. Your TSH went up from May to July with little change in your FT4. That could mean that your FT3 went down also, which would be good. But that's a leap of faith I'd like to see confirmed with actual FT3 numbers.
I'd just encourage you to stay on top of thyroid at the same time you work on your liver issues.
You might want to do some reading on T3 toxicosis and Hashimoto's toxicosis. As antobodies attack the thyroid and cells die, they sometimes "dump" thyroid hormone into the bloodstream, causing FT3 levels to rise. T3 toxicosis can be a serious condition. Your TSH went up from May to July with little change in your FT4. That could mean that your FT3 went down also, which would be good. But that's a leap of faith I'd like to see confirmed with actual FT3 numbers.
I'd just encourage you to stay on top of thyroid at the same time you work on your liver issues.
Stupid me never realized how important our livers are, or would've changed my eating habits a long time ago. I never was a bad eater, but didn't eat many veggies or fruits. Oh well, hoping it works and heals my sick liver. I'm more scared about my liver at this time. I'll work on my thyroid next.
I'm glad that Dr. Cabot, informed me that raw Goitrogens can cause a inflamed thryoid. I'll have to do more research on what veggies are considered goitrogens, to avoid them raw.
I'm changing my diet for the liver. I never new that certain foods could affect the thyroid.
I have my thyroid testing with all other lab test every 3 months. Just went in July, so I go again in October.
just looked at the link. It's fairly unusual to have TSH and FT4 within range and FT3 high, which is probably why they don't mention it. It's especially unusual to have FT4 a little on the low side and FT3 high.
You could have more than one thing going on. The antibodies could be keeping your FT4 down (by destroying thyroid tissue), and since you have had both liver and kidney issues, there may be a metabolic disorder causing excess conversion of T4 to T3 It could also indicate a swing from hyper to hypo...your FT4 had gone down, but FT3 was still high due to previously high FT4.
Since your U/S found no discreet nodule, we can rule out a toxic nodule (also called a toxic adenoma), which can sometimes cause higher FT3 levels.
I'm now worried about why the T3 is high and T4 is low if it shouldn't be. I don't see the Endocrinologist until Oct. I still have to call & do the phone interview you suggested.
I'm glad that Dr. Cabot, informed me that raw Goitrogens can cause a inflamed thryoid. I'll have to do more research on what veggies are considered goitrogens, to avoid them raw.
I'm changing my diet for the liver. I never new that certain foods could affect the thyroid.
I have my thyroid testing with all other lab test every 3 months. Just went in July, so I go again in October.
just looked at the link. It's fairly unusual to have TSH and FT4 within range and FT3 high, which is probably why they don't mention it. It's especially unusual to have FT4 a little on the low side and FT3 high.
You could have more than one thing going on. The antibodies could be keeping your FT4 down (by destroying thyroid tissue), and since you have had both liver and kidney issues, there may be a metabolic disorder causing excess conversion of T4 to T3 It could also indicate a swing from hyper to hypo...your FT4 had gone down, but FT3 was still high due to previously high FT4.
Since your U/S found no discreet nodule, we can rule out a toxic nodule (also called a toxic adenoma), which can sometimes cause higher FT3 levels.
I'm now worried about why the T3 is high and T4 is low if it shouldn't be. I don't see the Endocrinologist until Oct. I still have to call & do the phone interview you suggested.
It does get that way, doesn't it? I've made a lot of friends here.
Liver is very important...it removes all the toxins from your body. However, there are people who will tell you that thyroid is actually more important since every cell in your body depends on it. I guess it's just a matter of what you focus on or what your health considerations make you focus on.
Goitrogens can cause an already inflamed thyroid to become more inflamed. Cooking destroys the goitrogens. Many of us haven't changed our diets at all to accomodate our Hashi's. My recommendation is that you should do anything that makes you feel better, but if it doesn't make you feel better, you can pretty much ignore it. I eat many of those regularly and they never bother me at all. Those are some very "good for you" veggies. If they don't cause distress or make your thyroid swell, you might benefit from the nutrition they offer more than your thyroid benefits from avoiding them.
When are you supposed to re-test?
Liver is very important...it removes all the toxins from your body. However, there are people who will tell you that thyroid is actually more important since every cell in your body depends on it. I guess it's just a matter of what you focus on or what your health considerations make you focus on.
Goitrogens can cause an already inflamed thyroid to become more inflamed. Cooking destroys the goitrogens. Many of us haven't changed our diets at all to accomodate our Hashi's. My recommendation is that you should do anything that makes you feel better, but if it doesn't make you feel better, you can pretty much ignore it. I eat many of those regularly and they never bother me at all. Those are some very "good for you" veggies. If they don't cause distress or make your thyroid swell, you might benefit from the nutrition they offer more than your thyroid benefits from avoiding them.
When are you supposed to re-test?
Good afternoon. I feel like I know you personally now. Just wanted to share with you, that I've spoken on facebook, her personal page last night. Anyways, she's a Dr. in Australia and has books out on how to control Thyroid, Liver disease ect. it appears from the research I've done, that your liver actually is the main role play in one's life. I really never knew that. Anyhow, I'm starting her juicing with veggies, fruits & herb 8 wk. diet plan. I'm glad that I did speak with her on fb last night, because she informed me with Hashi's not to eat, raw green veggies. I'm sharing her response with you,
Hi Tammy,
Due to the hashimotos I would not suggest this particular juice daily. Try a mixture of different fruit and vegetable varieties such as carrot, celery, beets, lettuce, green beans, ginger, apple, pineapple, zucchini etc...its about juicing the rainbow to increase your anti-oxidant content in your juices. You must avoid eating or juicing a large amount of raw goitrogens vegetables such as cabbage, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, broccoli, spinach, kale. These foods are 100% recommended lightly cooked instead. Did you read the thyroid book or the liver cleansing book?
I really haven't been much in contributing to others that have Thryoid Disease, because of just learning myself. So it makes me feel good when I'm able to. I'm gonna try this diet & will let you know my outcome once I've completed & receive lab test.
Hi Tammy,
Due to the hashimotos I would not suggest this particular juice daily. Try a mixture of different fruit and vegetable varieties such as carrot, celery, beets, lettuce, green beans, ginger, apple, pineapple, zucchini etc...its about juicing the rainbow to increase your anti-oxidant content in your juices. You must avoid eating or juicing a large amount of raw goitrogens vegetables such as cabbage, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, broccoli, spinach, kale. These foods are 100% recommended lightly cooked instead. Did you read the thyroid book or the liver cleansing book?
I really haven't been much in contributing to others that have Thryoid Disease, because of just learning myself. So it makes me feel good when I'm able to. I'm gonna try this diet & will let you know my outcome once I've completed & receive lab test.
I just looked at the link. It's fairly unusual to have TSH and FT4 within range and FT3 high, which is probably why they don't mention it. It's especially unusual to have FT4 a little on the low side and FT3 high.
You could have more than one thing going on. The antibodies could be keeping your FT4 down (by destroying thyroid tissue), and since you have had both liver and kidney issues, there may be a metabolic disorder causing excess conversion of T4 to T3 It could also indicate a swing from hyper to hypo...your FT4 had gone down, but FT3 was still high due to previously high FT4.
Since your U/S found no discreet nodule, we can rule out a toxic nodule (also called a toxic adenoma), which can sometimes cause higher FT3 levels.
You could have more than one thing going on. The antibodies could be keeping your FT4 down (by destroying thyroid tissue), and since you have had both liver and kidney issues, there may be a metabolic disorder causing excess conversion of T4 to T3 It could also indicate a swing from hyper to hypo...your FT4 had gone down, but FT3 was still high due to previously high FT4.
Since your U/S found no discreet nodule, we can rule out a toxic nodule (also called a toxic adenoma), which can sometimes cause higher FT3 levels.
"So, as long as my lab reports don't state High or Low for my T3/4, then I'm ok not taking med's? TSH level doesn't matter as long as my T3/4 are within range? as for me having high TPO's, that just confirms that I've an autoimmune disease, and no med's needed? just making sure I'm getting a better understanding."
Not exactly. FT3 and FT4 ranges are very flawed for a number of reasons. As a result many people find they still have hypo symptoms until FT4 is around midrange and FT3 is upper half to upper third of range. Just being "in range" is seldom good enough. TSH can be influenced by many variables other than thyroid hormone levels, so you have to look at all three test results, and if the TSH isn't suported by the other two numbers, you have to dismiss it. There is no treatment for antibodies at this time, so, yes,. they do just confirm autoimmune disease.
Your thyroid produces T4 and a little of the T3 your body uses. Most of the T3, however, comes from conversion of T4 to T3, and a lot of conversion takes place in the liver and kidneys (red flag), though there are conversion sites throughout the body. The current therapy of choice is usually T4 only meds. The theory being that the body will convert that T4 in the meds to T3 just as it would your natural T4 from your thyroid. T4 (a kind of "storage" form of the thyroid hormones) has to be converted to T3 (the "active" form) because T3 is the only form your cells can use. However, once on meds, some people find that conversion slows down, and even though their FT4 can be quite high, they still feel hypo because their FT3 remains low. These people have to add a med with T3 in it to their T4 meds to feel well. If the doctor isn't testing T3 or won't use T3 meds, then the person often ends up mistreated and still symptomatic.
Desiccated is desiccated porcine thyroid (Armout thyroid, NatureThroid, ERFA, etc.). It is literally the dried thyroid of a pig, who has a thyroid similar to ours. It's been around for over 100 years as a thyroid treatment, and some people do well only on it, but when the synthetics were introduce in the 1960's, it went out of favor with claim (unwarranted, I belive) of inconsistency in the amount of hormone contained. So, a new generation of doctors was trained to use synthetics only, and desiccated still suffers from what was probably a very successful campaingn on the part of the manufacturers of synthetics to discredit their competition.
My endo and many others won't used desiccated. They think it's inconsistent and harder to regulate. I can't take it because I have a heart arrhythmia, but, as you say they should use whatever can be called in to help a patient. Depending on where you are, though, how big a medical market you're in, it can be very difficult to find a doctor who will prescribe desiccated. On principle, I wish my endo used it; in practicality, I can't take it, and I live in a very small market, so it was a relatively easy compromise.
It is scary. In these days, with the internet, you can learn a whole lot in a short time, and you don't even have to have access to a good medical library. I think it's pretty easy to bypass most PCP's knowledge of thyroid in a week. Granted, we don't have the breadth of knowledge about all disease they do, but we can get pretty good in our one little tiny corner.
I have to run at the moment, so I can't read your link right now, but I'll follow it later. Thanks.
Not exactly. FT3 and FT4 ranges are very flawed for a number of reasons. As a result many people find they still have hypo symptoms until FT4 is around midrange and FT3 is upper half to upper third of range. Just being "in range" is seldom good enough. TSH can be influenced by many variables other than thyroid hormone levels, so you have to look at all three test results, and if the TSH isn't suported by the other two numbers, you have to dismiss it. There is no treatment for antibodies at this time, so, yes,. they do just confirm autoimmune disease.
Your thyroid produces T4 and a little of the T3 your body uses. Most of the T3, however, comes from conversion of T4 to T3, and a lot of conversion takes place in the liver and kidneys (red flag), though there are conversion sites throughout the body. The current therapy of choice is usually T4 only meds. The theory being that the body will convert that T4 in the meds to T3 just as it would your natural T4 from your thyroid. T4 (a kind of "storage" form of the thyroid hormones) has to be converted to T3 (the "active" form) because T3 is the only form your cells can use. However, once on meds, some people find that conversion slows down, and even though their FT4 can be quite high, they still feel hypo because their FT3 remains low. These people have to add a med with T3 in it to their T4 meds to feel well. If the doctor isn't testing T3 or won't use T3 meds, then the person often ends up mistreated and still symptomatic.
Desiccated is desiccated porcine thyroid (Armout thyroid, NatureThroid, ERFA, etc.). It is literally the dried thyroid of a pig, who has a thyroid similar to ours. It's been around for over 100 years as a thyroid treatment, and some people do well only on it, but when the synthetics were introduce in the 1960's, it went out of favor with claim (unwarranted, I belive) of inconsistency in the amount of hormone contained. So, a new generation of doctors was trained to use synthetics only, and desiccated still suffers from what was probably a very successful campaingn on the part of the manufacturers of synthetics to discredit their competition.
My endo and many others won't used desiccated. They think it's inconsistent and harder to regulate. I can't take it because I have a heart arrhythmia, but, as you say they should use whatever can be called in to help a patient. Depending on where you are, though, how big a medical market you're in, it can be very difficult to find a doctor who will prescribe desiccated. On principle, I wish my endo used it; in practicality, I can't take it, and I live in a very small market, so it was a relatively easy compromise.
It is scary. In these days, with the internet, you can learn a whole lot in a short time, and you don't even have to have access to a good medical library. I think it's pretty easy to bypass most PCP's knowledge of thyroid in a week. Granted, we don't have the breadth of knowledge about all disease they do, but we can get pretty good in our one little tiny corner.
I have to run at the moment, so I can't read your link right now, but I'll follow it later. Thanks.
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