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Who all out there doing "liver lovers diet"
Just wondering if anyone else doing the diet/pre-probiotic/supps. Was hoping foe some input and or ideas on what you are eating, etc. A little networking might be good. jerry
i've been on a liver diet for about 9 months now...i am doing much better....stage 1 to 2 grade 2 geno 1a vl was 5.5 mil...have not had blood tests in the last 7 months...and i am waiting for better tx ...55 years old...lots of veggies ......i did the shaklee thing but stopped almost a year ago cuz that didn't help.....how are you feeling? arn't you a roof estimater /...billy
Hey, I build custom houses. I've started HRs recomended diet and other stuff. Are you eating many small meals thru out the day? Embedding fat and protien in veggies? I'm looking for some good ideas doing this? I feel fine. I got my Dr. to give me a standing blood work order (monthly) to track any progress or problem. With a 10k deductable I'll have to pay for them but am convinced of the worth. I'm stage 3, grade 1. I should be treating but have an underlying issue I am working on. (migraines) later, jerry
Can you tell us what HR recommended about diet (for those of us that missed it)?
These are cut and pasted---Eating patterns - liver metabolic stress reduction. Many small meals each with fiber embedded slow resorption carbs+30% lean protein+ only healthy fats/oils
Veggies and salads are the "macrofibers+ microfibers ". They slow everything down, even the basic enzymatic digestion process : macromolecules in food to absorbable monomers of sugar, amino acids and fatty acids. . . Grains - simultaneously with the above therefore, never as a "bolus' as such by themselves , grains should ideally be mainly oatmeal, little to no wheat and always in moderation. Veggies and salads themselves have slow carbs right in them. What matters is the slow offering of the enterically absorbed "nutrients" to the liver, that has to work them up as they come and therefore can be easily overwhelmed=damaged. if the offerings exceed the available capacity for "nonstressful processing". It is mainly a biochemical processing plant and it can only do so much per minute....Fruits/berries should also be embedded if possible, since they often . contain relative high available monosugar amounts..It is obvious that any true "sugar" containing drinks or even fruit juices are problematic for all these reasons and "deserts" are not even discussed.....
He also strongly recommends prebiotics and maybe probiotics as the base otf the "liver lovers"
Veggies and salads are the "macrofibers+ microfibers ". They slow everything down, even the basic enzymatic digestion process : macromolecules in food to absorbable monomers of sugar, amino acids and fatty acids. . . Grains - simultaneously with the above therefore, never as a "bolus' as such by themselves , grains should ideally be mainly oatmeal, little to no wheat and always in moderation. Veggies and salads themselves have slow carbs right in them. What matters is the slow offering of the enterically absorbed "nutrients" to the liver, that has to work them up as they come and therefore can be easily overwhelmed=damaged. if the offerings exceed the available capacity for "nonstressful processing". It is mainly a biochemical processing plant and it can only do so much per minute....Fruits/berries should also be embedded if possible, since they often . contain relative high available monosugar amounts..It is obvious that any true "sugar" containing drinks or even fruit juices are problematic for all these reasons and "deserts" are not even discussed.....
He also strongly recommends prebiotics and maybe probiotics as the base otf the "liver lovers"
A prebiotic is a substance that will selectively foster/enhance/give a growth advantage to those bacteria in the intestinal mix that do not produce ammonia amd other toxins, but rather live of the offered prebiotics - mostly undigestable carbohydrates- and produce actually substances, like certain fatty acids that nourish the intestinal epithelial cells/ improving the intactness/functionality of that critical layer.. You could call them the good cows of the intestines.
Examples of excellent prebiotics are inulin ( a branched chain fructooligosacharide), FOS ( FructoOligoSacharide - not branched), and Lactulose, a monosugar that cannot be absorbed by the human intestinal tract and therefore provides food for the good bacteria.
You want as many of those as possible, because they push back/reduce the negative/unfriendly toxin and LPS producing bacteria, that can cause damage to the intestinal lining ("leaky gut syndrome"), can be flushed up to the liver themselves or their proinflammatory breakdown products can reach the liver eg LPS =Lipopolysacharide= extremely proinflammatory cell wall substance.
Furthermore any undigested protein/amino acids will foster these toxic bacteria that produce harmful metabolites like ammonia, but also a host of other problematic substances ( eg benzodiazepin-valium-like substances), which, if the liver is not capable of detoxification due to a reduced liver mass and processing capacity, can reach the general circulation and in particular the brain, often causing, even in compensated cirrhosis, a syndrome called subclinical encephalopathy, that can - and has been convincingly- shown by psychometric tests.
The effect of these toxic bacteria on the liver itself is enhanced inflammation and enhanced fibrosis.Thats why this is an integral part of an antifibrotic regimen, an important aspect of the "do the least harm to the liver" strategy.
A probiotic is actually a preparation of "good bacteria" itself, not the food for the cows, but the cows themselves, so as to constantly reseed the intestines with a positive population. it is important to understand that there is easily a pound of bacteria or more present in the intestines, therefore a 400mg "probiotic" capsule will not quickly make a big difference.
There are many offerings of "probiotic bacteria" by the supplement industry, they are difficult to judge. In this situation those where university or governmental funded research has provided useful publications to support them could be selected. In that sense Lactobacillus GG has been well researched.
Since those are real live organisms, they need to be treated with care until use and the quality in their production seems important. As such products that are individually sealed in aluminum blister packages and are stored in the refrigerator until use probably deserve more confidence. If the bacteria that you swallow are dead, they are useless.
It is very difficult to say, how many probiotics are needed once a prebiotic is used anyway. It might or might not be overkill to swallow a prebiotic every day, once you are eg already using inulin.
But if someone can afford it, the extra safety margin from a combo of these measures might be worth it
Examples of excellent prebiotics are inulin ( a branched chain fructooligosacharide), FOS ( FructoOligoSacharide - not branched), and Lactulose, a monosugar that cannot be absorbed by the human intestinal tract and therefore provides food for the good bacteria.
You want as many of those as possible, because they push back/reduce the negative/unfriendly toxin and LPS producing bacteria, that can cause damage to the intestinal lining ("leaky gut syndrome"), can be flushed up to the liver themselves or their proinflammatory breakdown products can reach the liver eg LPS =Lipopolysacharide= extremely proinflammatory cell wall substance.
Furthermore any undigested protein/amino acids will foster these toxic bacteria that produce harmful metabolites like ammonia, but also a host of other problematic substances ( eg benzodiazepin-valium-like substances), which, if the liver is not capable of detoxification due to a reduced liver mass and processing capacity, can reach the general circulation and in particular the brain, often causing, even in compensated cirrhosis, a syndrome called subclinical encephalopathy, that can - and has been convincingly- shown by psychometric tests.
The effect of these toxic bacteria on the liver itself is enhanced inflammation and enhanced fibrosis.Thats why this is an integral part of an antifibrotic regimen, an important aspect of the "do the least harm to the liver" strategy.
A probiotic is actually a preparation of "good bacteria" itself, not the food for the cows, but the cows themselves, so as to constantly reseed the intestines with a positive population. it is important to understand that there is easily a pound of bacteria or more present in the intestines, therefore a 400mg "probiotic" capsule will not quickly make a big difference.
There are many offerings of "probiotic bacteria" by the supplement industry, they are difficult to judge. In this situation those where university or governmental funded research has provided useful publications to support them could be selected. In that sense Lactobacillus GG has been well researched.
Since those are real live organisms, they need to be treated with care until use and the quality in their production seems important. As such products that are individually sealed in aluminum blister packages and are stored in the refrigerator until use probably deserve more confidence. If the bacteria that you swallow are dead, they are useless.
It is very difficult to say, how many probiotics are needed once a prebiotic is used anyway. It might or might not be overkill to swallow a prebiotic every day, once you are eg already using inulin.
But if someone can afford it, the extra safety margin from a combo of these measures might be worth it
Thanks, yeah I started taking inulin at HR's suggestion. This was what I was eating before I started tx (now that I'm on tx it's all messed up because of the fat thing).
Oatmeal, cooked with raisins and bananas to sweeten it, with milk, no butter or sugar.
Yogurt, fresh fruit and flax seed smoothies
Gorp (almond, walnuts, and raisins)
all whole grains (whole wheat bread, brown rice, whole wheat pasta)
Large dinners which include cooked veggies as well as a lot of salads(org. mixed greens, carrots, broccoli,red cabbage and feta)
red meat once a week, skinless chix breast, beans, fish sticks or tilapia
Junk food:popcorn with smart balance nutritional yeast and salt, dark chocolate
Sorry, I tried to keep it brief, I obviosly eat a lot more than than what's on the list,but these are some of my mainstays, I know you don't want to go over my whole diet (w/o at least getting paid), but HR can be pretty technical sometimes,
Oatmeal, cooked with raisins and bananas to sweeten it, with milk, no butter or sugar.
Yogurt, fresh fruit and flax seed smoothies
Gorp (almond, walnuts, and raisins)
all whole grains (whole wheat bread, brown rice, whole wheat pasta)
Large dinners which include cooked veggies as well as a lot of salads(org. mixed greens, carrots, broccoli,red cabbage and feta)
red meat once a week, skinless chix breast, beans, fish sticks or tilapia
Junk food:popcorn with smart balance nutritional yeast and salt, dark chocolate
Sorry, I tried to keep it brief, I obviosly eat a lot more than than what's on the list,but these are some of my mainstays, I know you don't want to go over my whole diet (w/o at least getting paid), but HR can be pretty technical sometimes,
yeah, been on a variation of that for years now, and the supps...wouldn't feel too hot without them....
Raisins are pure sugar. "Grapetose" is the type of sugar they contain, believe it or not! Definitley not loving your liver eating raisins.
Hey, hows the ast/alt. all My current breakfast is a 4oz cup of the active Yopliat yogurt w/ a couple tbl spoons ground (coffee grinder) light colored flax seed (surprisingly tasty) w/ a small hand full walnuts w/ a carrot to help embed it. It's the embedding part I have trouble with. It's tough to add veggies to every snack/meal but it seems very important. jerry
I'ld have to agree. What do you think about agave(i think that's the spelling) as a sweetner?
Good stuff but maybe someone could help my pea brain. What are we embedding the fruit in? Veggies? Oatmeal? Is it any veggies or primarily leafy green veggies (minus spinach, right? B/c of the iron?)
Also, I keep reading about the benefit of green tea extract...is there any benefit to actually drinking the stuff? Or is it the sort of thing where I'd have to drink a gallon of it a day to get a modicum of desired effect?
I would not be bored by long, detailed lists of what people are eating in accordance with this plan.
Also, I keep reading about the benefit of green tea extract...is there any benefit to actually drinking the stuff? Or is it the sort of thing where I'd have to drink a gallon of it a day to get a modicum of desired effect?
I would not be bored by long, detailed lists of what people are eating in accordance with this plan.
My understanding is that we should embed EVERYthing w/ veggies in order to slow it down. I think spinich is OK. The wife(my inhouse expert!) says that spinich, tho rich in iron, is lothe to give it up, unlike red meat and one of my long lost favorites LIVER! smothered in onions
, YUM! jerry
, YUM! jerry
OK, can someone explain embedding better to me? Does that mean adding veggies to everything you eat or just grain. Are there certain veggies that work better than others? Can you embed oatmeal with a banana?
Is lots of fruit a no no?
Can you eat a serving of fruit just by itself or should it be with something else?
What is recommended for protein?
For someone that does not have a problem with iron in the liver, is eating one serving of red meat a week too much?
Is cheese a no no? (God help me if it is because I'd rather die than give up my sharp cheddar)
Is lots of fruit a no no?
Can you eat a serving of fruit just by itself or should it be with something else?
What is recommended for protein?
For someone that does not have a problem with iron in the liver, is eating one serving of red meat a week too much?
Is cheese a no no? (God help me if it is because I'd rather die than give up my sharp cheddar)
My understanding is that one should embed everything. The point is to slow down the digestive process thus reducing the work load on the liver. Fruit contains sugars that are quickly absorbed. Grains are simple carbs also. A careful reading of HRs words make it clear. He doesn't put forth any specifics, just veggies/salads, leafy stuff to embed lean protiens, grains, (oats being the best, wheat the worst) and healthy fats. My wife and I go out once a month for a good steak! (with a large salad and steamed mixed veggies)! Not the best thing but, hey, got to have something to look forward to! jerry
alts asts in the 20s....really good to hear your diet, anyone should eat a pretty good diet and mess up once in a while, that's life too! lol...and it makes it easier to keep your diet when you know that you can mess up once in great while! I just had homemade spinach pasta, tomatoes, garlic, walnuts...and walnuts in my salad, with red bell peppers and cucumbers....I munch on almonds and a few dried cranberries for desert.
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