vicoden question

[1968mustang]

My wife was addicted to Vicoden more than a year ago. I have more than just afeeling she's back on them again.

She has a deteriorating vertebre in and was in recently to see a specialist. I know the pain is real,
but I fear when she went in to genuinely check it out, she was offered a script and didn't turn it down.
During her addiction I discovered she was getting prescriptions from several doctors and using an on-line drug seller from Canada to get more. She fessed up to me afer I confronted and even informed the doctors involved so she couldn't shop them again. Her cell phone has been ringing lateley when I'm with her and she;s admitted that "its those people I hate" calling again. While she shrugs it off, and likely feels like that admission is close to the truth, I think she's using them again.

I need to know what these things look like or if they have a V symbol on them Not sure iwjhatf the Canadian (generic) looks like, I think she's hurt herself on purpose and is now contemplating going
to the doctor. We're sliding downhill fast. Please help. This is getting scary.

[IBKleen]

Hi Hun!

Sorry no one answered you. You would be best to google the pills and see what you come up with. Also, if you think she is, she probably is. I am sorry. Good luck.

If you want to post more, please do, I will check back.

[1968mustang]

Thanks for your reply. It's such a sinking feeling knowing someone is lying to you,
and in this case, again. I guess I understand that an addiction will over-ride the ability
to make good choices, but I get stuck asking myself how she wouldn;t stop and think
before taking that step again. She was petrified I'd tell her to leave last time but I think I handled it well. Within about two weeks and her doctor's advice she was ok,
I've trusted her this whole time and now I feel betrayed again. I don't feel like I matter and I guess she doen't feel like she can talk to me. I'm just sad that after 15 years of ups & downs this is her solution.

From information I''ve gained I have the feeling she's ok with this as a choice this time and that's really disturbing. From what I've read, her dose will have to increase to remain effective. She was taking 30 a week last time. She's on other meds too, Topomax, Lamictal, and prozac and I don't know if these will interact in any negative way.  I also
worry about her ability to take her other meds as needed if her judgement is clouded by
Vicoden.  We have kids and she drives them. I don't know how impared she could be.

I don't know what to do. We have not been close for months and this may seal our fate.
I have an appointment with our counselor on thursday so I guess I'll fume, toss & turn and worry until then.

Thanks for your reply.

[IBKleen]

I am so sorry for your situation.

Yes, trust is an issue and it is understandable. She will have to earn that back.

You have a counselor..good thing. Use that a chance to heal.

Take care of yourself and feel free to post anytime.

[1968mustang]

Does anyone know if generic vicoden is stamped with a
little V? The pills I found are the same shape as hydrocodone
I had when I had wisdom teeth pulled. I've tried to look them
up on the net, but I never found the V stamped in it. They are
a pill which is scored in the middle to be able to take half.
The V is not a normal V. It's slightly slanted to the right with
a longer tale off the top right of the V......almost like a Van
Halen V. Jeeze this sounds stupid.

When I found the pills there were 15 1/2. the next night 12 1/2.
By the next night 3 1/2. Yesterday they were gone. I'm now waiting
anxiously to see if the little hidden basket gets refilled, or is she
is suddenly in a horrible mood. Wish me luck.

I met with my counselor today and she agrees this is very serious.
She says that with all I've told her it really sounds like I've pegged
everything right, unfortunately. I feel so betrayed. Every step of her
path is a lie. I guess the addiction make the lie easier?

She & I went out friday night to a party. She ended up breaking her finger in a door that was slammed in the bathroom. I wonder if she's
going to go somewhere to have it looked at and try to get a script
written. She also brought home a monster bottle of Advil and has
taken 20 at last count in 3 days. I suppose she's aware she can't
have acetominiphin with the vicoden.

Anyway, I meet the counselor again on tuesday. Not sure what will happen between now & then. Just muttle for now I guess. God I hate this.

[beenthere24]

If I remember correctly, only the name-brand version had a "V" on the pill. When I took the generic hydrocodone, it had the manufacturer imprinted on it, which is Watson.

Good Luck

[1968mustang]

Is there a way to tell the dosage? Is the does the pill size vary with dose or not necessarily? I'm trying to get a handle on how many milligrams she's taking.
I have a hydrocodone here (not hers) that says M360 in a bottle (not hers) that is
750 milligrams. Here pills were identical in size & shape. I also checked a pill
shape/type book today with my counselor to verify the drug. How could she have
taken 9 in a day? I don't understand. She's 5' 8" and weighs 120lbs? Wouldn;t
that dose be enough to send her sky high, or not if she's been on them since
mid December?

[princ]

I can appreciate and understand your frustration with your wife but please know that addiction is not as simple as quiting. When you are in physical pain the relief of having your life back with the pain meds it is something that is extremely difficult to live without. You look at the quality of your life and it is a hard call. The next thing you know you need more and more to get the same feeling. Your entire body and brain is taken over and no matter how much you love someone or try it is almost impossible to let go. It requires a lot of emotional support as well as other intervention. I always feel badly when I hear about family members who feel that if they threatened to leave it will make it stop. It often only makes it worse. Your wife is in a difficult place. I am sure you are a great guy and care deeply but wanted to remind you that it is not as easy as quiting. Take care and God bless to both of you.

[beenthere24]

There are two strengths of Vicodin/Hydrocodone, a regular and an extra strength. The dosage is very low. For the regular strength, it's 5mg and the extra is 7.5mg. I noticed when I had a script for it, on the pill bottle, it would say: 5/500 (regular strength) or 7.5/750 (extra strength). I'm not sure what that means though.

One thing to remember is that Vicodin is a VERY seductive drug. For most people, it would just knock them out. But for me, and a few others I've spoken with, it gave me an overall sense of well-being. I felt like I could get through the day happily, no matter what mundane tasks lay ahead. I felt great just washing the dishes or going to work. And it gave me more energy, too. Once that feeling starts to go away, you want it more, so you take more, and then more, till you get that feeling back. Your wife may have a very high tolerance for it now. 9 a day is alot, especially since she doesn't weigh much. But it doesn't totally surprise me.

[1968mustang]

Thanks for your input. Seems like I use a friend to talk to. We've been married 15 years
and have 3 great kids. My wife's had a lot of tough background in her life. He father and brother are both alcoholics, she lost her mom to cancer a little over 2 years ago which
was when she started the pills. She's been through multiple operations for endometrosis and ovarian cysts. We're fortunate to have our kids. About a year ago her dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and is now institutionalized. We've made it through all of this, but it's really affected her. Now she's got a deteriorating vertibre and she's only 37.
Seems like a lot for someone to be dealt. I keep all of this in mind, but I went through this too. I need her too. I feel alone and scared to lose her to this from an overdose and a wasting away standpoint. I be there through this, but it still seems unfair  if you know what I mean. I am a good husband and I know she know that. I feel betrayed, but I understand my place in getting her out of this situation. I'm just really uncertain with all of what's going on here. :-(

[1968mustang]

She'd had several days of little cleaning & getting things done binges. She also sleeps a ton though. I asked her last night about her moods of being up & down hoping she might
open up to me. She didn't. I didn;t confront her on the pills. My therapist is quite concerned for her. My wife and I have been to this therapist since she was 17 and dealing with a crappy family, so the counselor knows both of us and the past inside out.
Would doses make her drop to sleep really quickly at the end of a day. She can fall asleep mid sentence and has a number of times. I guess I feel stupid for not noticing a lot of things that look pretty clear in hindsight. I'll check back tomorrow. Gotta get a hair cut and go home to my kids and wife. I hope everything is ok. God, I hate worring like this.

PS--the reaction you described is too a tee what it does for her.....unfortunately.

Thanks for your time and input.

[beenthere24]

When you mentioned the reaction described is too a tee what it does for her, I'm not sure if you were talking about my post. I'm brand new to this forum but when I saw your post, I thought my experiences might be helpful.

About the sleeping problems...do you know if she's taking more pills late in the day? I would get uber-tired when I was really high, pretty much the same "knock out" effect that Vicodin has on most people. Maybe the accumulative pills she's taken throughout the day really hits her hard late in the day. Or maybe she's taking more in the evening, say, to be able to go home and deal with all the hectic activities involved in takin care of a family (kids, bills, chores, etc). Or maybe she knows that you KNOW that she has a problem again and just wants to be "numb" to it to any kind of confrontation or guilt.

Vicodin is really hard on the stomach lining, and added to that, the amount she is taking per day can really affect the liver. Maybe your counselor has some materials about that (or research online) that you can present to your wife if/when you feel comfortable enough to confront her.

I hope your evening went ok. I'm sorry you have to worry so much, I know this is affecting you about as much as it affects her. Will check back soon.

[1968mustang]

Thanks for your feedback on this thread.

My wife's day is probably different than most families today. She's a stay at home mom,
but most of the day, our kids are in school. We have an 11 year old daughter, 8 year old son and a 5 year old son. 5 year old is in 1/2 day kindergarten so my wife picks him up at 11:10. The other two children get out at 3:00. My wife does not get up in the mornings, never has, to get the kids ready for school. I get them up, ready for school, fed and dropped off each morning. Lately, she's asked me to set her alarm later & later, like for 10:30 or so. To be fair, she was sick for about 5 weeks shortly after x-mas with terrible bronchitis. She's been well now for about 10 days, so I don't just attribute her sleeping to the V. But I guess it's the patterns that say more to me than anything. We have many nights when she comes home from work at 9:30, says hi, changes clothes
and goes to bed.  Other nights, she may stay up until 3 or 4 in the morning. It seems like she does the opposite of me. If I stay up, she goes to bed & vice-versa. I get home at night around 6:30. We have a babysitter come at 4:30 to watch the kids when my wife leaves at 4:45 to go to work. Work is less than 5 minutes away so there's no commute stress here or parking hassles.She likes her work so I don;t see stress there. She's quite well liked by everyone. In a nutshell, there's another root to her need for this than
some of the usual stresses many folks might have.

I believe she's out of V now. Or the stash has moved. I don't think it has, as I don't have any reason to think she knows that I know...ya know?  She's been grumpier and much shorter with me & the kids, but we've been working through other issues between us also, so I have to be realistic. I'm not a perfect guy believe me.

I guess I could ramble more, but I'll leave that for the counselor again on tuesday.

I appreciate your concern. It helps.

[1968mustang]

Good morning---I have been reading a lot on-line about Vicoden (obviously) and one of the things I read was that it works as a cough suppressant and should not be used when
dealing with breathing issues/lung issues etc. My wife suffered from a severe bout of  bronchitis for 5 week straight. She was really wiped out and has only been functioning for about 10 or so days. She went through 5 rounds of antibiotics, inhaler, cough medicine, etc. She had her thyroid checked, blood checked, chest X-ray, CT scan, the whole works. Sorry for the long intro.

When I read the warning on Vicoden on the lung issue, I now wonder if she was taking V
all throughout the sickness. If so, would it have inhibited her improvement during that stretch? Does V show up in bloodwork?  She's since gotten over the cough, but not completely. It came back over the last two days and now she'd on a new antibiotic again.
The cough came back as the V dwindled to O pills in the stash. Am I reading too much into this?

I had our pharmacy print out our family history for prescriptions filled since 1/1/-7. It shows that her Dr. filled 10 hydrocodone 12/12/07. Nothing since. She must have a different source. I suspect its the good old internet. She has a pharmacy call her on her
cell phone and I believer I mentioned some time earlier, it happens when we're together or together as a family and she rather unconvincingly, uneasliy says "its those people I hate calling". or I should just change my cell number. But the cell number doesn't change.  It comes up at no number listed. I checked her phone bill for inbound calls.
I don't know a way to check further on the bill to find out when she orders or maybe it's off  the computer. I don't know.

[beenthere24]

I don't know...it seems there are other issues other than the addiction. I'd urge you to get her to the counselor asap, whether y'all talk to him/her together or let her talk alone.

V isn't cheap...if she's taking as much as you say, then she's paying a hefty price for it. Have you checked the credit card bills? Or ATM transactions for cash withdrawals? Have you checked the history of all the internet sites she's gone to?

(I think V will show up in bloodwork if they are looking for it)

Wish you luck

[1968mustang]

I have checked her internet sites, though lately she's extended the history as our 11 year old daughter typed in sex and love making and we found it in the google history.
So, my wife brought this to my attention and the history has been long. I just did a check about 2 days ago and found nothing. I think she's ordering it by phone, as I mentioned the phone calls she gets from these bastards encouraging her to order and setting the carrot out there for her to take.

She's in a chat group also, and I popped up several of the threads ther to see if there was any mention of it and found nothing. I don't if she'll try to quit them, but it would be difficult without a major crash I would think. I guess I'll see what if anything I find tonight
when I get home. She works and l'll be searching house for drugs. What better way to spend a friday night. :-(

She does have major credit card debt. I've paid it off twice to the tune of about 14 grand.
This last time she got to pay it off, around 6 grand. I've looked at her credit card bills before just from a standpoint of what are you buying---prior to ever being hooked, years before being hooked. Though, I don't know what innocuous name the drugs would be billed under. How much (obviously depending on how many & what strength) would they be costing for 30 or 60 at a time?  I may have to investigate her bills tonight. I went through her checkbook a couple of nights ago but found nothing strange. No cash withdrawls either at least from our joint account. I've never seen her have any atm receipts for years. It has to be credit cards.

[beenthere24]

I did some checking and it doesn't appear to be as expensive as it used to be (it's been several years since I was hooked). Most sites range from about $200 to $400 for just 30 pills, depending on whether you order the regular strength or the extra strength. I found another site that offers way cheaper prices, but you have to purchase some type of membership. Have you noticed if she takes cash advances out on her credit cards?

If you don't find anything on your hunt tonite, could it be possible that maybe she found someone who deals V?...maybe that's who keeps calling her? I know this sounds way extreme and probably totally out of the question, but you're finding so few answers despite your efforts. A dealer may charge $5 or more per pill. I myself decided to quit when I couldn't get a scipt for it anymore and started thinking about finding a dealer.

I truly hope that it hasn't gone that far for you. (and I certainly don't mean to scare you).

[1968mustang]

I'd never thought of anyone dealing in V that would be supplying her. Though unlikely, I guess anything is possible. At 42, I'm so far out of touch on drug subjects. I've never taken a pill (drug) that wasn't prescribed, never smoked or smoked pot. I don't drink often and have drunk probably twice. I don't feel good being out of control. Even in high school, I'd be the person giving advise and rides to home to my drunk friends. I had a
good time watching the suupidity and relaying the stories they didn't remember the following week.

She's got about 20 grand of her own money she inherited, so she may just be spending it out of her own account. I keep close track on our joint account and review the statements every month.

Do you know if these on-line pharmacies ship by US mail or use FEDEX/UPS? My wife
always gets the mail and so I'd guess she likes the contant delivery time rather than UPS or FEDEX which have varied delivery times.  She's taking my daughter out of town
next weekend. I'll have to ask her for the mailbox key and see if I can make a few trips home during the afternoons for a few weeks and see what comes in the mail. That might prove enlightening. Or, I guess I could just confront her and let the **** hit the fan. I know for certain she'll be ashamed and think I'll leave her. She did last time. She was so petrified she wrote me an 8 page letter begging me to give her a chance and explaining how ashamed she was.  I wasn't at all a jerk about it. For some reason though, I don't think the magnitude of the problem really hit me until THIS time. I looked up Vicoden and the first page of what google has hit me like a ton of bricks. Maybe I really didn't do a good job at all last time understanding her problem. I'm scared to lose her to this ****. She's really intellegent but I guess that has been overcome by a need greater to fill a void.

[beenthere24]

If she is using V again, she seems to be hiding it pretty well. It's hard to believe that she would go through so much trouble to start using it again, considering how ashamed and remorseful she was. But I guess it can have that kind of hold over you. She must have either been in some serious pain, or has gone through a truly stressful experience to allow herself to start using again. That's why there seems to be underlying issues as to why she would be doing it.

Usually the online pharmacies ship either 1-2 day express mail, (usually FedEx), which means they guarantee a delivery time. The FedEx guy that delivers to me typically comes between 11a and 12p. When I order something online (I shop, therefore, I am) that I request overnight delivery for, it's guaranteed by 3pm.  I'm pretty sure the USPS doesn't make those kinds of deliveries, though I guess those pharmacies do whatever they can to get that product delivered.

It seems like you've given her many opportunities to come clean. If you can go the next few weeks without confronting her, that's very admirable (and likely to give you an ulcer!)

[1968mustang]

We talked last night about other matters in our relationship since she thinks I'm still in the dark.  I asked her one question in particular that really drew a reaction which I didn't
expect. The question was, how many days in a month do you think you are happy? I It drew a VERY terse I don;t know! What do you mean?  Well, I said, "how many days do you feel like.....I had a good day today and feel staisfied?  She seemed dumbfounded, lost for an answer.I asked her how I handle her up & down moods? Her reply was, I don;t know, I guess that's just the way I'll always be. Truly, she's always been that way to a certain degree. I was just trying to give her an opening to say....I"ve got something I have to tell you...  But it never came. I got quite a few really intense things told to me about our relationship and what I do wrong. She was definately not on anything calming or mood enhansing last night. We did end our evening happy (qualfiied but the drug subject matter of course and the churning inside of course). I think she's got some withdrawl though because her restless leg syndrome was keeping me up the last two nights.
I asked her in an e-mail this morning how she slept. She said not well. I said " your legs were twitching all over last night AGAIN (no tone delivered just a reference to that fact that I noticed....... to which she gave a very non descript, non-reactive answer of "that's why I was laying on the floor, not in the chair. Let me me explain, she was watching TV when I went to bed at 11:00. I woke up thristy at 1:00 and went downstairs to get a drink and she was asleep on the floor in our living room, tv and light on curled up in a blanket.

I woke her and asked her to come upstairs. Out of a dead sleep, her reply was "how come you didn't think I was still up?  I'm thinking  WHAT the .... kind of anser is that?
I came down to get a drink and thought she'd be more comfortable in bed???
She came up, got in bed, and was back to sleep in literally less than 1 minute and a half.
I wonder if she remembers coming up. Sometimes she doesn't.

If you get sick of me beenthere24, just let me know. I don't want to seem needy.

Thank you.



Inside I think she is very unhappy and searching for that elusive "something". The something I guess I hope I can be, help her find, or be a part of.

[beenthere24]

Nah, you don't seem needy. Everyone needs someone to talk to occasionally. I'd just been looking for some info online about my own addictions, and stumbled across this forum and your question and thought I might be able to help. And to be perfectly honest, I have my own drama going on at home, and this helps take me out of that.

Are you both the same age? Have you been married for a long time? It does sound like she's really depressed about something or having one of those midlife crises everyone always talks about. I guess the most important thing is to be patient and supportive (as you're doing already) and do what you can to draw out whatever is bothering her. Does she avoid you alot, like you said, if you're awake she'll go to bed, and vice versa? I think you mentioned trying to get her to the counselor in one of your posts (which I think she really, really needs). What are the chances of getting her there?

What anyone says when they are half asleep should never be taken too seriously. She could have been dreaming or just totally unaware of what she was saying. Does she take any other medications that you know about? Like pills to help her sleep, or for her restless leg syndrome?

I don't mean to sound nosy, you don't have to answer my questions. I'm just trying to give you some ideas about what's really bothering her.

I will check back throughout the weekend, though I don't know if you are able to chat on the weekends.

[1968mustang]

I'm five years older than her. I met her at 21 when she was 16. (Ok, don;t think that of me). We dated for 7 years before we got married. We were in counseling during those 7 years and have worked through a lot. She has a rotten family life, alcoholic father and drinking mother and worthless brothers. Dad now has alzheimers and is in a facility,
Her mother smoked and died in a short period of time from lung cancer a couple of years ago. Before her mom's diagnosis of cancer, her mother & father were hit by truck and her mother barely pulled through. Her accident, rehabilitation, death shorlty after a miraculous recovery (the never though she'd leave the rehab home) really drove my wife
over the edge. I really think it altered her brain and belief/faith sytem. We;ve been through much more from a relationship standpoint. I had a lot maturing to do and a lot of work with the counselor from my side, but I think most guys would have thrown in the towel long before now. We've been married not quite 15 years. She's on prozac, has an ambien prescription, topamax, lamictal. Her psychaitrist has had her try a littany of anti-depressants, none of which seem to work well, or long term. I truly wonder if she needs a complete detox to help the up & down. Maybe V does that in her mind.

This is my work computer, I own my business. I won't be in this weekend I don't think.
I'll check in monday and give you an update from the weekend. Wish me luck.

Thanks again. :-)

[amythist2779]

Hi. I dont think that the pills with the slanted v on them are vicodin. I used to take a muscle relaxer that had the same kind of markings you are describing. I can not think of the name of it right off hand but I think it started with an M. Although I am not certain. I am not saying that she is not taking vicodin, I am just saying I dont think the pills you found are them. If you are real concerned take one to a pharmacy and ask them what it is and they can tell you. I know how hard it is to deal with an addict and I am sorry you have to go through this. I had to deal with a husband, now exhusband who was addicted to meth, and it was hell. I hope you find out the truth and some answers and get her the help she needs before its too late. Good Luck, and hope I was some help. Take care and have a good evening.

[confused456]

The pills with a slanted V are indeed Vicodin....I know this for a 150% fact because I have one of them right in front of my face on my desk. They are probably the same thing that I have which are Vicodin 10/500.......and yes the V looks almost exactly like the Van Halen V.......sorry to give you the bad news....best of luck to you and yours.......

[confused456]

....the more that I read on here, the more I would like to talk with you. Your wife actually reminded me of myself. I am a stay at home Mom at the moment and my husband and I have 3 kids ranging from 15-8 years of age.