question about withdrawl

[coup25]

hi. so my husband has been abusing pain medication for awhile now, i just recently learned how bad his addiction is and i am making him stop. he hadent used anything since tuesday and it is now friday, he has been having withdrawls but not as bad as we expected. well today he was feeling sick and he took tramadol. he said it wasent an opiate but my research is showing that it is. so my question is do you think taking that one 50mg pill is going to put him back at the beginning of his withdrawls or because it wasent oxycodone its okay for one day because i flushed the rest. he had been taking oxycodone, something called roxy , and perks basically anything he could get.

[ColleenToQuit]

I would like to clear up some things about Suboxone. I am not trying to push it onto anyone or advocate it's use because everyone has different treatment goals and objectives and there is no ONE correct answer. So with that said: It is correct that Suboxone is not to be used for long-term maintenance and it CAN be addictive if not taken the proper way. But there are two components to the drug: Buprenorphine and Naloxone. Buprenorphine is a partial opiate agonist and low bioavailability, which means for drug addicts that have been chronically abusing opiates, it cannot make the addict "high", it normalizes brain chemistry. Buprenorphine by itself IS an addictive partial-opiate if not taken correctly and is has a different brand name. But Suboxone's second component is called Naloxone. It is a non-narcotic agent that will rapidly detox the abuser's body of FULL opiate agonists such as heroin, oxys, perks, morphine, etc and will cause severe withdrawal if taken while other opiate pills are still in the body so it is best taken 24 hrs after the abuser has taken his/her last pill. And Naloxone also keeps the addict from taking other opiates while on it because it keeps the brain from absorbing other opiates and makes the addict sick if other opiates are consumed. This serves as a deterrent so the abuser will not relapse as it will cause great physical discomfort if opiates are consumed while on the Suboxone. Therefore Suboxone is a great detox tool only. After detox, an addict can continue taking just the non-narcotic Naloxone similar in properties to antibuse for alcoholics after withdrawals are over. Naloxone can be taken long-term without any harm to the body and can also be used alone to overcome opiate addiction without taking the Suboxone step. Suboxone itself can be administered by a normal family doctor that is registered by the FDA to administer the drug. You do not have to get it from a detox clinic. The medical doctor will write a normal prescription and the patient will take it at home. There is also no need, although it is recommended, to go to therapy while taking Suboxone, therefore it is a good tool for users who have busy lives. The only downside to Suboxone is finding a doctor accepting Suboxone patients because he/she can only have up to 30 patients at a time (at least in Ohio). I hope this information is helpful and again I am not campaigning for the drug I am just giving facts to help you and your husband make the best choice for yourselves. I received this information from several sources including the manufacturers website along with a few peer reviewed medical journal research studies. One was about heroin addicts and testing which methods are best to detox between Methadone, Naloxone, Suboxone, and Tramadol. I wish i knew the name of the sources so you can research if you'd like, but you do have to "subscribe" to it or have a login to look at it online. Otherwise you have to find a library that has it. Because I am associated with Ohio State University, I have access to these psychology and medical journals but the Suboxone website is public information. Here is the link: suboxone.com. Again I hope this information is helpful to you and helping you make a decision on different treatment options. There are many out there. Please let me know how you and your husband are doing, that is if you don't mind sharing. And please let me know if there is anything else you would like to know that may help!

[feohmoon]

This place is great for advice and support - as well as for some remedies that help to alleviate some of the pain and disconfort associated with withdrawals.  Although everyone may not agree with each other here...it is always good to have different takes on a situation.  With that being said, I would definately encourage you to steer clear of suboxone or any opioid maintenance drug - they are as addictive and the withdrawals are far more drawn out.  I do understand that there are those who have benefited from the use of opioids but I just wanted to give you my perspective.  Wish you all the best and continue to post, this is an amazing resource with wonderful people.
Peace

[Jaybay]

YOU can't MAKE him stop.  You can support his efforts; keep him comfortable during withdrawal; try to keep him motivated as he works a recovery program; and be a cheerleader.  

It is not at all selfish of you to set boundaries for your own protection.  It is a good thing to lay down the ultimatum - either he quits and works a recovery program, or he's on his own.  Don't beat yourself up if he relapses.  It is not YOUR fault.  Most people can't recover by themselves, and detox is only the beginning.  Major behavior changes are required for success, which is what livigr8ful is trying to say.

I agree with you both that Suboxone isn't the answer.  It's supposed to only be used for a 21-day detox tool along with psychotherapy.  It was never studied or FDA approved for long-term maintenance.  Suboxone IS an addictive opiate, which means your husband would just be putting off detox for another year or two.  

Physically, your husband needs to drink a lot of non-caffeinated and non-alcoholic liquids.  Part of withdrawal usually means vomiting and/or diarrhea, so it's important to stay hydrated.  Sports drinks like Gatorade help keep electrolytes in balance.  Blood pressure also skyrockets, so if he already has hypertension, you'll need to keep an eye on his BP.  Get him into a hot bathtub for temporary relief from the muscle spasms and anxiety.  Check out the Thomas Recipe and Amino Acid Protocol health pages at the bottom right side of this page for more information on how to manage detox.

ER treatment will be necessary if your husband becomes dehydrated, experiences very high blood pressure, or has seizures.  Has he considered any kind of after care at all like NA or private therapy?

[livngr8ful]

You can get as irritated as you want. And you said tramadol...  And refer back to posts of others about it.  Its about, continuing to take meds like that. What I am saying is sometimes you have to break the habit of taking a pill to alleviate something.  And if I wasnt clear about it, I said its about the thinking process.  Everyone works in different ways.  And for me I had to stop swallowing Sh**.  I would take 3 benadryl to sleep when I was only suppose to take 1-2.  Thats what I am saying. Is sometimes you need to stop the thinking process as much as stopping the medication. I am not saying to not take advil for a reason, but it is very helpful to put a halt on the thinking process that continues us on a pattern. Detox will happen and its no fun and steps do need to be taken.  But be careful what step that is. This is just advice, no need to be defensive unless you and him are not ready.  We all have had different experiences, take out of them what works.  But dont be defensive when people try to help.

[IBKleen]

No, Advil will not produce withdrawal. No, Advil does not get you high.

Anything narcotic will be a set back. If you tell us what his symptoms are, perhaps we can suggest some remedies that are non-addictive.

[coup25]

i am just making him stop. he doesnt need anymore drugs unless the withdrawls are gonna kill him.

[coup25]

does advil give you withdrawls? does advil get you high? i said pain medication i know they are all addictive my question pertained to the process of withdrawls and what helps ease symptoms and what may be a set back.

[livngr8ful]

The medications you are talking about are both addictive. Now with many of us its not necessarily always just Oxy, or perks, or vic's, Its taking pills.  People can abuse anything if they are compelled to. You can over consume advil, simply because you think one isnt enough, and that's addiction.  He needs to stop the thinking process, not just a specific medication.

[coup25]

thanks for your input i really do appreciate it. one thing i can say is that i know he hasent done anything besides the tramadol in the past few days because he has not been out of my sight and i can just tell by the look on his face if he is high. as far as soboxone goes i'm not interested in it the clinics we talked to discussed 9 months to 2 and 1/2 years of treatment and he doesnt want that and neither do i.  he has quit cold turkey before and that was off heroine, that was when he joined the military, isnt that so crazy? going through withdrawls in bootcamp.thats another reason he cant go on soboxone or anything , it just isnt practical for his career. anyway the only choices he has is to stop or continue doing it alone because i dont know how selfish it may sound but i will leave if he does it again, he swears he wants to quit. i can live my life knowing that if i go to work i/m gonna come home and my stuff is gonna be pawned or i'm gonna find needles in my home. it truly sickens me. i love him so much but he is just not the person he used to be. i understand the brain chemistry thing and everything but ya know something you have to do things for yourself and i am supporting him in anyway i can for now but this is the last chance. i think that no one should puyt up with someone lying to them constantly . okay let me get back to him now. oh yea today he is not feeling too good. he is jonesing to use his words.

[wesinbama]

When I told my doctor I was an addict, he tried to give me tramadol instead of lortabs. My inpatient facility had warned me against tramadol, so I declined. I had taken it before to help with wds, and it did a little, but whether it is an opiate, I guess I don't know. I never considered it an opiate before, but have heard bad things here. I don't think one pill will put him in any wds though. I never got a buzz off it. But with dealing with an addict, I would stay away from it. The potential for abuse is too high.

[ColleenToQuit]

I'm sorry to say and I'm not completely sure about this but you say he hasn't had really bad withdrawals yet? I'm assuming he hasn't really stopped completely or at all. I would know because I am also addicted to painkillers. But it's not exactly his fault. His brain chemistry has changed and is telling him he "needs" the drugs for survival so he will do anything to get them. I also agree with abuelabx. You can't just make him stop cold turkey because he will fail to stick with it. And trust me, he probably feels worse about it than you do. Opiate addicts are a little different than other addicts. They realize they have a problem and realize they do not have cognitive control anymore so they feel helpless. I'm guessing you also don't feel like you can trust him (I know how this goes too. I don't even trust myself sometimes) but he needs your support and remember he's no longer in control. I suggest both Suboxone and counseling. It takes a long time for the addicted brain to heal. I've been on and off painkillers for 8 years and I've done a lot of research. The best information out there is in peer review psychology and medical research journals if you want to look yourself.  

And as far as the tramadol goes, he's probably been given bad information. It is not a scheduled drug or recognized as "narcotic" by the FDA, so for this reason doctors hand it out like over-the-counter drugs, but it definitely is an opiate and more and more health professionals are rethinking its classification. I hope this information helps. Please let me know how things go!

[abuelabx]

you can't just make him stop. he is going to get very sick and end up in the e.r. try to get him to a doctor and discuss Suboxone for withdrawal. you can't stop abruptly. good luck & God bless

[Punkinhead75]

I can't speak much on the withdrawals.  Does he want to quit?  It sounds like some education may be needed as  far as what is safe and what isn't.  Good job doing the research and flushing but you aren't always going to be able to keep him from using.  Is he interested in aftercare?  Has he seen a doctor?  When people tried to make me stop I either stayed away from them or hid my habit from them.  Good luck!!!