Am I addicted?

[LPB]

This is the first time I have admitted to anyone let alone myself I might have a problem.
I started having panic attacks over a year ago due to a divorce, job change, move etc.  My dr. prescribed Diazapham.  It worked.  But I also drink as well, probably 3-4 glasses of wine a night.  I am now seeing a social worker and have an appointment with a psychatrist this week for meds.  They currently put me on Prozac, which I can't take, makes me have terrible anxiety, tremors, sweats etc.  Stopped taking at at once.  I am also taking Zanax.  5mg once a day.  It makes the panic subside but not for as long of periods of time as it did before.  I am worried that the jitters I get are alcohol related as well.  Is combining the 2 at such a low dose truly dangerous and how do I just stop drinking?  I want to be able to have a glass of wine with friends but not every night.
Any suggestions?  I am in a very lonely place right now and would appreciate the help.

[Witchywoman]

Hi LPB, and welcome to the forum!

That took courage to post to us and admit that you've got a problem...congratulations. I remember when I made my first post. I am a hydrocodone addict, and with the help of this forum, I've been clean now for 3 months, after 5 years of abusing.

It is really good that you are seeing a therapist and a psychiatrist for help.  Meds for panic disorder do help, a lot, but they can't "fix" the underlying cause of the panic disorder. a combination of meds along with good solid therapy can definately change the patterns that induce the panic disorder, so you are on the right track.  If the prozac doesn't help, ask the Doc to try you on something else.  Serzone is a newer med that helps both anxiety, depression, and panic disorder, and tends to not be as agitating. Maybe you could ask them about that.

To blunty answer your question...taking valium and xanax and drinking 3 to 4 glasses of wine a night does sound like a lot to me.  Have you told you Doc and therapist yet? If they are any good, they won't judge you, but will try to help you learn to change the patterns of addictive behavior so you can feel like you have your life back.

Keep posting and let us know how you are doing.

love,
WW

[LPB]

thanks.  that was quick.  i do believe i might have a problem.  yes, i have told my therapist.  she wants me to go to AA.  i am not ready for that, i want to try it on my own first.  i think maybe, or certainly, the panic and drinking are just masking a lot of pain inside.  i have never been alone in my life and am just divorced and live a long way from my family.  i have gone from relationship to relationship and think having some form of drink, drug etc. has kept me from facing things.  it's going to be a rough road.  thank you from the bottom of my heart for responding to me.  i wish you continued success as well.
LPB

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yes, try by all means to heal yourself on your own. It is possible to do that for some. AA helped me for many years in so many ways, so don't block that approach out of your mind. If nothing else, talk with some people in AA over the phone.

You are taking benzos presently. They can be called "dry whiskey" by many who have had a problem with them. I assume you have a problem otherwise you would'nt be here posting questions. Your brain may be equating the benzos and alcohol as one and the same. That's the problem/dilemma you are facing now. You want this and yet you want that and on and on and on. What do you really want in life? Everything?

Sounds like bitter advise, doesn't it? Come back here again and let the "old pros" help you out. You'll meet many on your journey that can and will help you along the way.

J.B.

[LPB]

Wow!
This is the first time I have ever participated in anything like this.  I am so amazed at the kindness of others and how many others there are like me.
What do I want?  Interesting you should ask.  I just had (30 minutes ago) a session with my therapist.  She truly believes I am very co-dependant.  I have never been alone and the alcohol takes that loneless away at night. For the first time in my 34yrs. I am alone. When you drink you don't have to think.  Somethings gotta give, ya know?
I am working on it but don't want to give it up.  Catch 22, huh?  
I do have a question if anyone knows.  I know I have panic/anxiety disorder.  Thats for sure.  I have that creepy crawly feeling and tremor inside feeling (kind of like people who can't take antihistamines).  Is that from not drinking?  I am not taking a ton of the meds.  Maybe 5mg of Zanax a day, (1 pill) and usually at night.  I can't tell if its panic or not having the alcohol in my body?  This is really scary stuff.

[SHOTSY]

Hi there! I hope your hanging in there. From what I've found out here your possibly have some withdrawals. I believe the train  of thought is that Zanax leaves the body very quickly. And seems to cause the very symptoms it's used to treat when it leaves your body.Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong.About that alone thing. Sometimes I just want to be alone. Isn't it weird how we want things we don't have. Although beit on a temporary basis. You also  need to realize this is temporary. And you will make it thru. We'll be here to help.You've had a lot to deal with and now you have the perfect oppurtunity to take care of you. So snuggle down and do something you like for YOU.((((HUGS))))) SHotsy

[Witchywoman]

Hi LPB,
If you are taking 5mg of xanax a day, that is a pretty high dose. I'm thinking you probably mean you take .5 mg a day?
If you take it every day, when do you get the shaky feeling? Withdrawal from xanax does cause intense rebound anxiety, which is what you may be feeling.

I do believe you that you also have panic disorder. My heart goes out to you..that is a incredibly distressing and hard to live with.  Have you done any reading about how to handle panic disorder with cognitive therapy? There is a great book about it, called "Don't Panic" (I forget the author) that is full of helpful info on how to handle panic symptoms and prevent them, without medication.

And yes..I do understand that feeling of wanting to stop but also not wanting to stop.  It is a process, and just reaching out to us is a big step for you along the way to figuring out how you want to approach this.  12 step groups were never the right thing for me. I got clean due to the support of this forum, as well as individual therapy.

I hope you stay with us!
love,
WW

[Witchywoman]

Hello everyone,
I just had a hearing test, after weeks of non stop ringing in my ears, and I do have hearing loss. It is not huge, but it is significant, and the Doc can't find any cause for it. I gave him the article about opiate induced hearing loss, he had never heard of it but was going to look into it.

I'm pretty upset. Well, to be honest, I'm extremely upset. I feel overwhelmed in general by my life right now, and finding out that my past opiate abuse probably has permanently damaged my hearing is devastating. The hard part is not knowing if it is going to stay at this level, or progress.  The research I've read said it can begin to happen and progress even after a person stops the drug (which is what has happened to me..I never noticed hearing problems while I was using heavily).

I may need to be a bit scarce for a few days while I try to get some clarity and find my emotional center again.  If I don't post it doesn't mean I'm not here for y'all or that I don't care..I just may need some time to reflect, though I know I also need support badly..my tendency is to withdraw when I feel scared. AAARRRRGGGGGH  I hate being codependant!

Just also ...if you have any hearing symptoms...take them seriously and use this research on hearing loss as another tool in your arsenal of reasons to fight the Dragon.  Warm fuzzy feelings and numbing of emotional pain are not worth giving up the ability to hear beautiful music, the cry of a child, the "I love you" from your loved ones.

love,
WW

[kstuebin]

I said I wasn't going to post here but I can't overlook this.  LPB, do not stop taking benzos without consulting a doctor.  They are not like opiates and it is dangerous to go cold turkey.  You can suffer seizures and brain damage in a worse case scenario.  You have to wean yourself off of them and you need to talk to an addictions specialist to do that.  You can find one at any hospital or they can direct you.  I am a Xanax addict who detoxed by weaning and it was bad enough doing it that way. One pill a day is probably not enough to keep you out of severe withdrawl.  I can emphasize this enough.  If you want to email me, I'm ***@****.

[butterbean]

HI, I also am alone, divorced, and my children are grown, so I am totally alone.  I like it most of the time, and since I am not dating anyone right now, I am a little more lonely.  However, I think as I believe you said, these pills help to deal with the lonliness, depression, and emotions.  I know they worked wonders for me as I was always panickly, anxious and when I started taking Vicodin, I thought I could do anything.  I did too, I got a divorce after 21 years of marriage.  I am still not sure if it was partly the pills that helped to make me get out of the marriage.  Sometimes I regret it and want him back.  WE had our problems, but, he loved me and was good to me.  I do like living by myself though, and you can too.  For me, I have always felt like I have taken care of myself, since I had no parents who really cared for me much.  So as I took control and got divorced, I am going to take control and get clean of these pills, soon.  I  know I will, I just have to learn first whether I can get a small perscription just for the really severe pain and take something like Motrin for the everyday pain.  I am going to start there this month and see if I can do it.  If I can't, then I intend to stop taking vicodin completely and deal with the pain some other way.  After I came to this forum and met these wonderful people, Ihave felt I have so many friends helping me, keeping me strong, and being there for me when I really need a friend.  I am here for you too, so keep posting.  Yu will win this battle if you want to.  Let me know how you ar doing.
Love Butterbean

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

WW, my tinnitis is almost gone since I've been off of hydro and oxycodone for some time. Also, I've been very careful about my sugar and sodium intake as well during these last thirty days. Maybe it's something to consider? Sometimes it takes the "shotgun approach" to feel better, eh? Please excuse my Hoosier way of speaking! Anyway, take some time off and recuperate. We all need to do just that from time to time.

Butterbean, my friend, the very pills of which you speak have been both a boon and downfall in my life. How can something be so wonderful one moment turn into a nightmare the next? I suppose that is life for us. I just strive for some sort of equilibrium day to day. Barring withdrawals and normal misery, life is still a grand adventure. Believe it or not, we could be in much worse circumstances! Stick around long enough and you will see what I am talking about, Butterbean.

LPB, do what you will for now. The journey begins with the first step. You have taken that step and I can only hope that you will find what you are looking for. It is there, believe me, and you will find it someday. Just be patient and it will come. Without a doubt you will meet some people along the way....but remember, "princibles before personalities" is always the best guide in this life. I offer my best of wishes to you!

J.B.

[Frank Lee]

Hi LBP,

There is a lot of support out here for you and I am glad you found a place. You are playing with fire mixing benzos and ethanol and I am glad you realize it is a problem. Indeed, it's great that you found a therapist. I hope you are able to work out a plan. From personal experience and using many fundamental principles, ... I would offer the following. As noted above, please do not stop at once this could result in seizure. Additionally, stopping both ethanol and benzos is very difficult. Perhaps you and your therapist could work out a plan wherin you taper off one first and then the other. Finally, hope you know there are some people here who are very principled and caring. They will help.

Peace,

Frankie Lee

[kstuebin]

When I was child, I spake as a child.  I understood as child. I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face; now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope and charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. I Corithians, 11 - 13

[LPB]

thank you everyone.
i am really confused now.  you guys have been doing this discussion thing for a while and i am not totally familiar with the lingo.
i want to clarify i rechecked my bottle and it is 0.5mg, if i was taking 5mg i'd be comatose!  thank you witchywoman for pointing that out (and wish you the best with your hearing).  i have only taken 12 zanac,since Nov. 13th.  Can you become addicted and have withdrawls that fast?  i was taking valium sporadically for the past 3 months, not daily though.  if so, panic or no panic, i am going to suffer through not taking them.  maybe it is alcohol withdrawls?  this is so miserable to admit.  i didn't think i drank that much.  last night i only had a glass of wine.  very proud of myself.
Shotsy, thank you.  You are very kind and I appreciate your warmth.
KStuebin, I appreciate you taking the time to post.  For whatever reason you didn't want to, thank you.  I never knew anything about drugs before.  I had never taken anything really until the last year.  And to think, trying to get better.
Butterbean, thank you as well.  Dealing with lonliness is the hardest part i think.  driving home from work last night i had the worst panic attack yet.  i am glad i am in therapy i just wish i knew a way to make the panicky feelings subside.  driving is the worst.  you want to take something for the panic but don't want to take anything. ughhh.
Frankie Lee and J.B. thank you both for your adivce and support.  I will continue to post and thank all of you for your acceptance.
One day at a time.

[Witchywoman]

Hi again,
I'm not a Doctor, and not as familiar with pharmacology as some others might, but if you have been taking the xanax every day since Nov 13th, what you are feeling is probably rebound anxiety. I could be wrong, but I don't think if you have taken it once a day you'd build up enough of a constant blood level to have developed full blown physical dependancy.  Can anyone correct me on this if I"m wrong, please?
What you can build up that fast though, is tolerance, so that the same amount of the xanax no longer works as well.  That is how it starts..People need to take higher and higher amounts, and then start taking them more than once a day, and before you know it, you've got a dangerous physical addiction going.

If you've had alcohol in the amounts you describe, 1 to 3 glasses of wine a night I think you said, you won't have developed physical dependance on it, but you could definately have developed emotional and psychological dependance.

So, it sounds to me like you are probably not in physical withdrawal (again, someone please correct me if I'm wrong), but are having rebound anxiety along with your panic attacks.

Is your therapist also an MD who prescribes the meds for you? If not, get a referral to an MD Psychiatrist for a medication evaluation. There are good meds out there that treat panic disorder without creating physical addiction. Also, when you have panic disorder, you have to work to retrain your nervous system to respond less intensely to anxiety.  This is where the nuts and bolts of therapy come in. Deep breathing, imagery work, retraining your internal dialogue, all are part of it. Combined with medication, this kind of therapy can help panic disorder well.  I am a therapist, and have worked many times with folks who have panic disorder and anxiety disorders.  The Benzo meds, like valium and xanax, are good for short term management of the disorder, but they do nothing to treat the underlying cause.  The underlying cause needs to be treated within the brain's neurotransmitter system, as well as the psychological system.  It also sounds like you are going through a lot of loss, given your divorce and loneliness, so my heart goes out to you. I really hope you can find a good support system and rebuild your life into one in which you can flourish!

love,
WW

[kstuebin]

Xanax is very addictive and there have been cases of physical dependency with low doses in as short as a time as two weeks. I did a lot of research on this topic. I would imagine withdrawl symptoms would be less severe but I don't know that for a fact. Since I quit Xanax, via Valium weaning, I am having horrible axiety. Some days I just cry and cry, because I feel so awful.  The withdrawl was different.  I would describe it as anxiety with a twilight zone component.

LPB, long old story re my not posting.  Obviously, I'm posting again.  I'm so happy to have a fellow benzo abuser to talk to..there aren't many of us on here...probably too zoned out to boot up the PC :)  I was also prescribed Xanax for anxiety and have abused alcohol in the past so I think JB is right and they do go hand in hand.

[Francoise]

I don't have much time, so I'm gonna be to the point.

You MUST stop drinking and taking benzos like Xanax.

Get off the Xanax and the other "-pam" and get on Klonopin. It's a "pam" as well, but has a half-life far, far longer than that damned Xanax. And it's a hell of a lot easier to get off of.

CAUTION: You just can't stop taking a benzo, especially Xanax. It can and will cause deadly seizures if you just stop taking it cold turkey. You've got to taper ANY benzo. Tapering too fast off these very effective anti-anxiety drugs cause, get this, intense anxiety. But you can taper down to about a quarter millimeter of Klonipin and then switch to Valium (another benzo, a -pam as well) and then taper off that. You've got to be careful with this.

What you are doing to yourself with the mixture of drugs and alcohol that you're taking now is deadly.

Come back soon? Tell us how you're doing and what the shrink had to say?

Francois

[LPB]

Hey guys
Thanks
I had an appt. with a psychiatrist this weekend regarding the meds.  He diagnosed me with severe panic disorder.  Surprise huh?  Anyway, he changed me from the Prozac, which I stopped anyway, to Celexa.  We are starting slow and building up my tolerance.  He also said to continue with the Zanax, but ween off onto Klonopin.  Hopefully we are on the right track.  I also slowed down the drinking.  I think I was doing it for the anxiety.  It's still there, all the time, but I am hopefully on the right track.  It's amazing how posting and seeing someone can take the load off.
To hear others that can really relate is wonderful.
KStuebin, I understand the anxiety completely.  I am going to today to get a book/audio on breathing techniqes.  The dr. said it would really help.  Am also looking into yoga.  The gym is a lifesaver for me.  Have you tried either?  Try and not be alone too much.  That is what (I have found) the anxiety makes me want to do.  But in the end it's just you alone with the anxiety and that turns to depression.  Good luck.
Thanks WW and Francoise.  I appreciate the advice and support once again.
LPB

[Leigh]

I know the feeling of loneliness. I ended a long-term relationship last winter. My boyfriend was a control freak, and I basically gave up my friends and hobbies to be with him. So naturally, when I finally got the courage to end the relationship, I was left with no friends or life of my own.

Being a hydrocodone addict, I decided to spend every night numbing the pain. And I agree--it's an awful feeling to know that I'm filling a void by abusing a substance. I'm afraid to truly feel that loneliness, and face myself and the mistakes I've made--so I either take a few pills, drink a few beers...or both. Not a good combo, I know. Sometimes I think I'm on a slow path of destruction...and all this, just to avoid loneliness and facing myself.

Someone wrote about driving in a car and feeling anxiety / loneliness. For me, it's being home alone that makes me feel anxious. Not only do I feel lonely and scared, but I also have a tendency to sit on my couch in a narcotic haze, as I posted several months ago. So to avoid all this, I actually leave work at dinnertime, get take-out food, and drive around for hours. I don't want to go home, because I know I'll crack open a beer or stare at the TV for hours to avoid feeling anything. So instead, I've literally put thousands of miles on my new car, just driving around at night. Thank god the price of gas has gone down, or I wouldn't be able to support this new habit.

I think you've taken some huge steps and made tremendous progress, just in the period of time since your first post. You've admitted that you might have a problem and you've asked for help. That's huge. Most people get stuck in denial for years and years (like me).

Someday I'll have the courage to join you. Until then, you're in my thoughts...Good luck, and welcome.

Leigh

[LPB]

Hi Leigh,
Wow. I am so sorry.  Home is my safe haven.  I can understand the "tv gaze".  Been there often.  I can also relate to loosing everything for someone.  I have moved cross-country twice for someone.  STUPID!  I am finally realizing that only Me can make ME happy.  In one week I feel I have made a lot of progress.  Being alone this weekend and learning to "fill the time" is hard.  Scheduling is everything.
I get anxious just thinking about doing new things by myself but want to try.  I am starting back at the gym.  At least I am off the couch and am tired when I get home.  Does that interest you at all?  You're car would thank you for it! You also are out of the house.  Just a thought.  You meet new people as well.  I don't know.
Please take care.  I am always a chat away.
LPB

[butterbean]

Leigh you sound so much like me, except younger.  After 21 years of marriage, I think the hydrocodone helped me believe I could do anything and I left. I was a different person, a happy person, for a while.  that's what the drug does at first, then yu get depressed when you start taking too much for the pain.  I am still going to take once in a while as I have chronic pain.  LPB, I also just joined the gym today.  I was a fanatic up until 3 years ago, getting divorced and going back to school full-time and working full=time too all my time.  I have come home and laid in that drug induced stoop so many times.  Made me feel on ttop of the world, no pain, no emotional pain.  I do want someone else in my life, but, I am afraid of what I will find.  I sometimes wished I had stayed with my husband, but, I know that was the right thing to do.  I am isolated at work and home so now the gym will help and my muscles will bring back my self-esteem and even help my back , I hope.  Leigh, hang in there.  Try to see what's around you and if yu can slowly let the drugs go.  If you want it you will do it when you are ready.  Take care my friend. Also, I am a therapist and I can listen real well.
Love Butterbean

[Witchywoman]

Hi Butterbean!
God..your story sounds so much like mine, except I didn't leave my husband. I came close, but decided to stay and I don't regret it.

Good for you for joining a gym.  I joined one a month and a half ago, and I swear, it helps my back pain a lot.  I use the elyptical machine, and it really helps.  I've also been doing strength training. I've always been really athletic, because I've been a dancer for 12 years, so it hasn't been too hard to get back to it after a forced 6 months off (due to the surgery).

What is making me worry is that I"m not sure I'll be able to do middle eastern dance anymore, and it is my favorite creative outlet. I tried to do a bit this weekend and paid a high pain price for it. My Doc says it may still be too early.  This may seem like a small issue, but to me it is really huge...dance is what has given me sanity and brought me more joy than I can say. Giving it up, if I have to, will be hard.

We're in the same line of work too! I bet you completely understand the feeling of giving and giving all day long, and then wanting to just come home and shut the world out with pain pills, huh? I did that for a few years....it is good to have my life back, but it is still a day by day choice for me.

take care Butterbean..thanks for being there.
love,
WW

[butterbean]

It is good to hear from you WW.  As I said I think I did the right thing by leaving, but, I can't look back now. I understand completely about your dancing.   My daughter danced from the time she was 2 until 18 andthen decided not to go professional.  I am still proud of her though, and she is a hard worker.  I used to go to the gym and work out religiously until I started working full-time on my master's.  Then with working full-time and school full-time, I had no time left. I joined the gym for my body, mind and to get out of the house. I am isolated except for my children.  I have a fear of dating!  I guess because of the  pain I have been through.  But, I am clean now from vicodin again.  I still think I may have to get a small perscription, but, I want to see how I can deal with this pain without the narcotic.  I hurt so bad yesterday and didn't take anything but motrin.  I put a heating pad on when I laid down, and took two hot baths.  I feel good this morning, like I have a lot to live for! Some days when I took the meds I would just keep taking them and ly and bed and sleep, as if that was what I wanted.  What was I hiding from?  MY loniness, my self, my fear I think!!
Take care WW and keep posting.  You sound great and my fingers are crossed for you to keep dancing.  I wish I could dance.  Always wanted to.
Love Butterbean

[Leigh]

Butterbean, what you said about leaving your husband really hit home for me. I left my long-term boyfriend, and sometimes I wonder if I did the right thing. He was controlling and argumentative and afraid of marriage, but at least he loved me. Sometimes I wonder if I left him because I felt that false sense of Vicodin-induced security. But then I remember the arguments and the hell I went through, and I feel confident that I did the right thing. I just wish it wasn't so hard being alone.

I also have trouble dating. After working all day, I don't have the energy to engage in conversations. And I also can't stand the prospective men that await me. It seems like 99 percent of the dating scene consists of complete freaks. I recently met someone who I really like, but being insecure, I find myself questioning our relationship every five minutes. I wish I could just be thankful and enjoy things.

I would love to join a gym, but after moving out and living on my own now, I can't seem to find the cash. I agree that working out would be a wonderful way to beat my addiction--and meet people, but I can't seem to make that first step.

Just too many thoughts, ya know? Did I make the right decision--and if yes, why am I so lonely now? Am I lonely because of my addiction? And why am I so afraid to face myself and my loneliness? I always thought I was a strong person, but lately I've been feeling like a real coward. Instead of facing these questions head on, I just keep numbing myself and hoping that it will all magically disappear.

I know I should probably go to a 12-step meeting, instead of sitting on my couch or driving around in my car. But I've been to meetings before, and I feel like the whole thing is so contrived. But if I could walk into a meeting and have the room filled with everyone from this forum...wow. I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Leigh

[Witchywoman]

Sounds like we all have similar stories!  At least we are not totally alone!

Well, while I don't have a perfect relationship with my husband, we do have a lot of problems, I'm glad I am there because in the end I have to admit a lot of the problems we have stem from my addiction, and the fact that for almost 5 years, I was basically emotionally gone from the marriage, shutting him out and going for the vics every night. I confessed the whole thing to him and have his support in staying clean now, but I did almost blow it.  He is not perfect either, but for me, so far, staying was the right choice.   He kept telling me over and over for years that he missed me, he wasn't sure what was wrong, but he felt lonely even though I was right there by his side.  

Now another issue we face is...how to deal with sex and chronic back pain.  Now that is problem!!! ugh.

love,
WW

[butterbean]

WW, I know what you mean about the sex and the pain.  My doc used to ask me all the time how was I handling that.  Took a vic, exercised, and tried to make the best of it.  But when yu have pain like this for 24 years and getting worse, you get really sick of it.  My husband loved me too, but, was abusive to his kids, my stepkids, and many things happened that I could not deal with.  Like when we were first dating, he shot a cat right in front of me because he saw nothing wrong with it.  The cat was in the garbage.  He also slingshot a little shawaha and he didn't know I was looking and because it didn't die but rolling in pain, he stomped it to death.  Now could you forget those things????????  No not me. If he loved me so much, how could he treat his kids and animals like that.  So I will be lonely for now, until I find (if I do) a man who is truly kind, giving and loving to all of my family, including my pets.   WW, we do sound a lot alike, with what we do for living , etc.  It is ironic. Hey maybe we know each other.  Leigh you are dealing with a lot of lonliness now, but, you did the right thing in getting out of that type of relationship.  Take your time and the right person will come along who will put you on a pedestal where yu belong, and then you many never want to touch the drugs again.  He may give you all the high you need.  Take care both of you and everyone else.
Love Butterbean

[LPB]

Leigh
Funny what you said about dating that guy and being insecure about yourself.  I met a wonderful guy, its a long distance relationship, which is good as there is no chance of "living for him"-and all I do is push the envelope.  He calls all the time, wants to see me and I still am insecure.  I am seeing that I am going to push him away if I keep it up.  I don't want to marry him but its nice to have someone to talk to.  As far as there only being freaks out there....it's not true.  There truly are nice people out there.  I see that in the people I've met thru this post.  Don't loose faith.  I know what you mean.  It is a lot to deal with on top of the drug thing.  Just don't let that be an overwhelming factor as well.  I know I let it do that to me and it only makes the anxiety worse.
Question-do you have a good friend that understands what you are dealing with or family?  Just curious.  I have opened up to my friends instead of shutting them out.  They don't totally understand but at least they aren't blind to whats going on. (Not about the drinking and stuff, just more of what's going on in my head).
Keep writing.  It really helps.
LPB

[Leigh]

I have to say, you guys are really great. It truly helps to read your comments and hear your stories, although it's also heartbreaking to know that other people feel this pain, too. Butterbean, I've only read a few of your posts, and yet I can say you did the right thing by leaving your husband. What an awful situation. How are your kids about this, and your family? And LPB, I know exactly what you mean about pushing someone away. The guy I'm dating now is an angel. He calls me and sees me every week...and yet I have to push the envelope, too. I don't want to get married or live together, but you're right--it feels so good to get positive attention from someone. I haven't put any pressure on him, yet. But when I take my nightly drives or when I veg on my couch, I have imaginary conversations with him. Needless to say, these conversations are not light and casual. And I also find myself waiting for him to call. What a recipe for disaster. I just don't know what's wrong with me--I never used to be this needy. It's like I keep chasing anything that might distract me from facing my own pain. I wish I had the guts to throw away the pills and the beer and not sit by the phone. I guess a gym would be helpful with that, too. But I would really like to discover the root of my loneliness and conquer it--without any substances, and without a man. I want to be strong on my own, ya know?

It's really great talking to you guys. I'd like to post my email address, but it's a work address so I can't. But if anyone can post their address and doesn't mind posting it, please do. WW, I know you've posted your email in the past...hope it wasn't one of those deleted messages...

Time for me to take my nightly drive. Sleep tight, everyone.

Leigh

[LPB]

Leigh, I didn't know what hydroconodone was and just looked on the web.  How did you get started taking it?  How are you able to continually get it?
I am feeling better taking the Celexa.  It is giving me more anxiety so I am taking it right before bed so when the symptoms hit I am asleep.  They also put me on Klonopin for the anxiety.  What about going to see someone and taking something for the anxiety and trying to wean off the hydroconodone?  Are you seeing anyone, professionaly?  It is helping me tremendously.  I am still drinking but really trying to slow down.  I think it would help if you did talk to someone.
As far as the guy goes, does he know about any of this?  It sounds like he doesn't live near you.  Is it a weekend thing?  I have been hitting the gym a lot and that is helping too.  Still have the anxiousness but am at least tired.  Wish you were able to go.  Maybe soon.
I am doing the wait for the phone thing as well.  I think it takes time to build up your confidence in your self.  You CAN do it.  If I can I know you can.  Take the relationship for what it is.  Enjoy it if he's good to you and try and see that when he calls its because he wants to.  That should be reassuring.  Good luck.  My email is work as well so it's probably not a great idea either.  Keep posting though.
Take care.
LPB

[Leigh]

I started taking hydrocodone via a 'friend' who gave me a few pills for fun. Some friend. I don't want to say how I get the pills, since this is my work email, but suffice it to say I manage. It's not fun, though. I'm constantly stressed about my supply. I hate it. I'm also starting to truly hate the feeling I get from them...the fun is wearing off. I'm building up a tolerance, so I have to take more and more...and it's becomming a life-controlling habit. Every thought, every thing I do revolves around these damn pills. I truly, truly hate it. Someone--perhaps you, mentioned quitting as a Christmas present to themself. I think that's a wonderful idea. I'm sick and tired of living my life around this. I also want to stop drinking, or at least keep that to a minimum. I don't drink on a daily basis, but I binge sometimes, which must be doing wonders to my liver. I feel like I'm on a slow path to suicide.

I used to see someone professionally, but it wasn't working out. My mom passed away last year, and I saw someone with the goal of processing her death in a healthy way. Ha--that obviously didn't work. I just couldn't be honest with my therapist. I would love to find someone who I could be honest with...I'm very amenable to the idea of seeing someone, I think it would be great. But it's very difficult to find someone--I'm kind of blindly perusing the pages of the phone book, because none of my friends see therapists and my doctor admitted that she has limited knowledge on that subject.

And no, I haven't told my new 'boyfriend' about my addiction. Things are too new, and I don't want to scare him off. Plus I'm embarrassed that I let this happen to myself. I'm a very independent person with a great career, so it really kills me to openly admit that I'm powerless and screwing up my life.

It sounds like we have a lot in common. Did you say you have a few glasses of wine every night? And now you cut back? Is that working--ie, are you able to cut back and feel okay? It sounds like you've been self-medicating your anxiety, so hopefully a good doc, the appropriate prescription and a little willpower would be your solution. You're in my thoughts....

Have a great, hopefully anxiety-free weekend.--Leigh

[butterbean]

Hi, please help!  I have a date and I am scared!  I am clean and will stay that way, except for taking pain meds for bad pain.  However, it has been a long time since I dated someone I thought would be good for me.  Wizard, where did you go?  I looked forward to your inspiration and since you are a man maybe you can help me, and you too WW.  I am so scared about this date! Nervous, will he like me, will I be able to talk?  I am finally myself again, and am shy , so I am afraid he will think I am standoffish!!! I know you guys are with your families, but, if you have time before tonight, give me some words of wisdom, help!! You guys have helped me so much already.  
Love Butterbean

[Witchywoman]

Hi Butterbean!
I'm so glad you have the courage to go out on a date.  I've been married for 12 years, so don't remember what the dating world is like..but, my best advice is this...breathe. be yourself. dig deep inside to find your genuine, true, wonderful nature, and tell yourself that you are gold. Don't automatically devalue yourself if you really like him.  We women tend to do that, don't we?

I'll be thinking of you, and hoping that it goes really well.
Please, keep us apprised!

love,
WW

[LPB]

Yep.  Sounds like we do have a lot in common.  I have a great job and career as well.  I feel terrible for you as far as the pill thing goes.  Its funny that people on the outside think I am so "together" and have such a wonderful life.  Ugghh..if people only knew.
I went to visit the guy I have been seeing this weekend and had a wonderful time!  Only problem, the drinking.  It seems when I do drink now it's in excess.  Imagine that-not knowing when to say enough is enough.  He really layed into me the next day.  Mixing the pills for the anxiety with alcohol is a receipe for certain disaster.  I know he cares or he wouldn't have said anything.  I need to be careful.  They say you can have seizures from taking the Klonopin/Celexa and mixing with alcohol.  Scary.  It is my personality, to just lay it all on the table and be honest.  So I am lucky in the sense he already knows.  It keeps me in check I guess.  Plus when I am having a bad time there is someone to talk to .
The Klonopin takes away some of the anxiety so I am not drinking as much, to some extent I am self-medicating.  The seizure thing really scares me as well.  That alone is enough to make you cut back.  The other stuff I am taking makes me feel crappy most of the time but its getting better
I know you said the relationship is new but maybe at some point you will be able to tell him.  If he is a good person he will understand.  If not, do you want to be with him anyway?  We aren't talking marriage here ya know just opening up a little.
I also know what you mean about worrying where the next dose will come from.  Years ago(college and after) I smoked a lot of pot.  While they say that is not addictive I would worry when my supply would get low and the stress of wondering where I would get the next batch from was agony.  I can sympathize.  Its not like running out and getting a six pack.
I thought about you this weekend on my ride home and hoped you were doing okay.  As far as seeing someone professionally-do you have medical insurance through work?  mental health coverage?  I just winged it by someone in my network and got lucky.  Let me know.
Keep your head up and talking.  It really helps.
LPB

[Leigh]

Yes, I have great medical insurance through work. I should just call around and see what I can find. Ideally, I'd love to see someone who understands addiction, but there's only one addiction specialist listed in my network...and I don't want to see someone who is gung-ho about 12-step programs. I know 12-step programs help a lot of people, but I've had some bad experiences with them. My mom was very involved with 12-step programs, and it was almost like she was brainwashed to blame her family for all her problems. It got to the point where she isolated herself from everyone and considered her 12-step buddies her true family. I have no doubt these people offered support and encouragement, and may have been as close as family--but I didn't respect the fact that she chose them over her real family. I even tried to understand by attending meetings wtih her, and it was almost cult-like...almost like another addiction (eg, substituting the 'program' for drinking and drugging). So anyway, I'm a little afraid of seeing a therapist and being bullied into a 12-step program. I want to stop using and go into recovery, but I want to use a method that will work for ME, and for the above reasons, a 12-step program is not that method. Not sure if that makes any sense...

But yes, I can understand the binge drinking. As I mentioned, I suffer from that habit, too. As a matter of fact, when I saw my 'boyfriend' this weekend, we went out with a bunch of friends. And we all drank too much--to the point where I can't remember the last part of the evening. I only get to see this guy once a week, and I blew it by drinking too much. He wasn't mad or anything--but it was my own loss, because I have memory lapses and NO idea what we discussed, if anything. And yes, I'd love to be honest with him. But at this point, our relationship is so new that I think we have a few other bridges to cross first. There are a few other things I'd like to tell him first, before I broach the subject of addiction, just to put things in perspective so he might understand why I went down this awful path. My old relationship with my controlling, verbally abusive boyfriend, for example. Or the recent death of my mom (he knows my mom passed away, but no other details about how I coped--or more accurately, how I didn't cope). So although my instincts tell me that I could trust him, I want to do this in a methodical way. I'd also like to be able to say, "I have an addiction and I'm actively in recovery." Like I said, I feel so ashamed and embarrassed that I allowed this to happen to myself...it would totally shock so many people, to know the truth. I want so badly to get in control before I confess.

I've heard the stories about Klonopin / alcohol seizures, too. And that scares me. Be careful--please. I've only known you for a few weeks, but like the other people I've 'met' on this forum, I care about you and think about you when I'm not actively posting. I often wonder if something happened to someone--how would I know? I could pick up the paper and read about an overdose, but never know the overdose was someone I cared about. That's a scary thought....

Sounds like you have a caring guy in your life. That's very cool. And perhaps a nice bit of motivation to really take care of yourself.

Leigh

[LPB]

I never mentioned it before but I am sorry about your mother.  That in itself can make someone turn to ways of covering up the pain.  I have a "difficult" relationship with my mother as well.  It has gotten better over the years, thanks to my wonderful stepdad.  He makes he a little more understanding.  She is a therapist actually.  Good at working on other peoples problems but not the ones close to home.
Don't discount therapy because of the 12-Step issue.  If you try a dr and don't like them look for someone else.  I think it would help you tremendously.  Just being able to talk about yourself for 50 minutes is worth it!  :)
I almost fell off my chair when I read your email about drinking too much this past weekend.  The same thing happened with me.  I was having a great time and before I knew it I was 6 glasses of wine in.  (I was visiting the boyfriend)  Anyway, by the end of the night I was crying and made a complete ass out of myself.  Thank god he is understanding.  He told me the next day we can't let that happen again and he is right.  I don't remember parts of the evening and when he tells me things I hate to admit I don't remember.  This is a pattern, I just wish I knew when to say when.
Maybe slowly you can start opening up to him.  Maybe about your mother is a start.  You have nothing to be ashamed of.  Noone is perfect, including him.  You are on the right track just talking about it.  I have my moments as well but I am seeing life is too short.  I am 34 and feel 100 some days.  It shouldn't be that way.  The only good thing  that is coming out of all the meds is my anxiety has tapered slightly and I am to my ideal weight, a little less even.  The drugs give you no appetite.  I really wish you'd pull the trigger and call and go see someone.  The phone call is the hardest part.  If you do end up going this time around you've GOT TO BE honest with the dr.  They really are there to help you.  If 12 steps come up-get out of there and find someone else.
Good luck, I am thinking of you.
LPB

[2manypills]

hi..I read the comments that were made about xanax and alcohol.I was taking 150mg of effexor +150mg of wellbutrin +.5mg of xanax in the morning/150mg of wellbutrin and .5mg xanax at supper  and then 1.5 mg xanax at bedtome....plus 3-5 beer a day  a usual amount for me..I took those pills for a year and then my doctor wanted me to take epival.no way I was going for more..so I am stopping it all(except a few beer)this is day 6 of my quitting and I dont know if I have withdrawal or a bad flu..I have the following symptoms  headache(less today than before) sweating a LOT..its dripping off me now...tingling in my hands ..a lump or choking feeling in my throat..nausea...dhiareah.?? cant spell right either haha...mild shaking...very tense but as I look at the pills in my purse I feel I am doing the right thing by getting OFF them.I dont want to call my doctor because she will talk me into the pills again...so tell me friends..is it the flu?

[Witchywoman]

Hello ...sorry to say, I think you are in withdrawals, not the flu.

What worries me is that withdrawal cold turkey from xanax can be very very dangerous.  Since it has already been 6 days, you are probably safe from the potential seizures, but I'm not sure.
Effexor is a wonderful antidepressant, but again, folks usually need to taper off it, or else they might have withdrawals from it.

I really suggest you call your Doc and tell her what you've decided, just to be sure you are safe.

love,
WW

[2manypills]

thanks WW...my husband says the same..so I will call my family doctor tomorrow ...maybe there is something I should take to ease me out of this...It surprises me that we all just take for granted that our doctors have told us all we need to know about the drugs they give us....If I knew the facts about this withdrawal I would never have just stopped ...I did cut my dose down to once a day and half the dose before the 6th day when I took none..so maybe that helped too...I know I learned more here than in the doctors office  ..thats for sure...thanks for your response..take care.

[LPB]

Congrats on trying to quit.  I agree with WW.  I am new to the site but have learned a lot in short amount of time.  
From what I experienced myself, cold turkey sucks.  It is also dangerous.  Talk to your doctor.  Sounds like your husband is supportive-lean on him.  You need people around you when you go through this.
I know when I stopped (tried) drinking and everything I had the sweats, shakes, teeth clenching etc.  Not the flu.  Sorry to say.  Good luck and keep us posted.  The more you talk the better it gets.

On another note, thanks again to all of you for your help and support.  Leigh, Butterbean, WW, Francois, Ksteubin and J.B.

[Leigh]

How are you feeling today? The week is almost over--not sure whether that's a good or bad thing. Being at work forces me to avoid those drinking binges, ya know? I think I'm in the exact same boat as you. I wish I knew when to say when. And of course, there are two schools of thought that address this issue. One would say that we're alcoholics, and we're incapable of saying when--instead, we have to say no. The other idea is that we could learn to abstain or drink responsibly. What are your thoughts on this?

I agree wholeheartedly with what you said about trying a few therapists. My insurance is great, so I'm fortunate to have that freedom. And yes, I want to be completely honest with someone. It's not going to be easy, though. I usually like to say what I think someone wants to hear...and I also have a bad habit of intellectualizing everything, instead of exploring my feelings. Of course, it's much easier to keep things on that superficial level. In the past, years ago, I used to see a therapist who told me that I had a firm grip on how to do things for myself--but no clue who I really was. So true.

And now, of all things...I went to my regular GP the other day, and she found a lump in my breast. I'm sure it's nothing, but I got really pissed at life for a few days. After losing my mom, ending a long-term relationship, etc, I just wish I could coast for a while, or that life would cut me a break. Like you, I'm only 33 but on most days, I feel about 100...

So have you seen your boyfriend this week? Going to see him this weekend? I'm supposed to see mine this weekend, and I'll be damned if I binge on alcohol again--I want to actually remember things this time.

Hope all is well--you're in my thoughts.--Leigh

To the person who posted about Effexor--I've posted about Effexor withdrawal in earlier threads. Be careful! I discontinued Effexor once, and almost had a seizure. I'm currently tapering my dosage right now, but it's at a snail's pace because that stuff is really powerful. If I miss a day, I get very lightheaded and sick to my stomach. And I've been tapering for almost six months now. I truly recommend seeking a doctor's opinion and guidance before playing with all those meds and dosages. You've already accomplished the hard part--wanting to stop using and admitting that you need to stop. That's great, but don't make this any harder on yourself. Please check in with an MD on this.

[LPB]

So glad it's Friday.
I am so sorry to hear about your doctor visit.  With all you have going on that's the last thing you needed.  I am sure it is nothing, not to minimize it at all but they find them all the time.  The majority of the time they are just cysts.  I will keep you in my prayers, I know that's scary stuff.

Regarding the drinking.  My therapist says I have to abstain altogether.  I don't agree, probably because I don't want to.  There are times I can drink responsibly, not as often as I like.  A previous therapist I was seeing told me that when I can't remember things the next day it is because my body is actually toxic.  Wonderful, huh?  I don't want to do the AA thing.  What a stigma that has.  One thing at a time.  I really don't think I can just quit on my own though.
The anxiety is much better, I have noticed a significant change since I have been taking the meds.  How are you doing?  You haven't mentioned hydrocodone lately-have you been able to taper it at all?

The therapist stuff....I have learned through years of b.s. that by not being honest with them I am not helping myself.  It sucks to have to actually verbalize that I am screwed up and hear someone agree with me :) but the end result is worth it.  You and I sound so much alike.  People are always telling me how strong I am but inside they have no clue.  I feel like a 10 yr. old child.  I was explaining that to my mother and she agreed that I have always run from relationship to relationship and never took the time to find myself.  To be 34 and have no clue who you are is a pretty big pill to swallow, no pun intended.  I guess we have to start somewhere though.

Boyfriends-he is coming to see me this weekend and meet all my friends.  Like you, I need to try and REMEMBER the weekend.  We'll see.  
I hope you have a great weekend, take is easy on your car.

[Nawoc]

Are you an alcaholic? What is alcaholic?

I stoped Drinking Jan 21 this year.
Was I an alcaholic? I have trouble with that term. Some say
it is the way your body processes alcahol (alcohol). Myself I fanilly
figured out if I didn't pour it down my neck it didn't make
any difference one way or the other.
Was I addicted to alcahol (alcohol)? Yes.
Was a quart of 100 proof per day a problem for me? Yes.

I quit needles june 23 1988. I could go through $1000 in a 3
day benj. Do I miss needles and the goodies that go in them?
Yes.

I quit cigeretts april 1 1989. Do I miss tobacco? Yes

An addiction is lifetime commitment. We all wish you the best.
Anyone can quit. The longer you go without the stronger you
get. The stronger you get the longer you go with out. When
you get weak, just sit down in a room all by your self and
think about how good you'll feel in the morning for not giving
in to the moment.
Good Luck!

[2manypills_the 2nd]

hi  ..I had to add _the 2nd because I switched ISP's....thanks for all the input...I called my doc and he said I had to call my psychiatrist not him..so here I am back on the pills...I didn't want to but she said I had to or she would cancel me as a patient.she said she will help me taper off ...the correct way..I must admit..I feel better back on the effexor and xanax...so at least I learned a good lesson..and I hope me telling you all this will help someone else....I will keep you all posted as to how my quitting the pills go....I will NEVER try that again...it was more torture than when I overdosed a while back...so anyone thinking of stopping their prescription for good..pleeeeeezz   GO SEE YOUR DOC...and do it right...thanks all