Am I ruined for life from vic/oxy? I think so

[steveies]

Screwed up, again.  Was 11 days clean, down to .5 mg of sub then looked at the calendar.  I saw my meds were due to be refilled.  No need to fill you in on the thought process because you already know what goes on in your head and it all leads to the same result, failure.  Have been on a binger for the past couple weeks it seems, not that my stash is lasting, it's dwindling fast and I'm going to be up sh its creek in a few days.  Honestly I think I'm just screwed up in the head for good, no coming back to a normal, drug free life.  Do all yourselves a favor, don't listen to my advice if I ever give it again.  Taking advice from me is like dancing around a blackhole.  I don't even want to be around anymore, only reason I am is because I have kids, can't do that to them.  But what am I doing for them anyway?  My perks seem more important then anything else.  If I give my 2 cents on your problems in the future, remind me of this post and tell me to shut up.  I have no business giving any advice.  All you people just realizing you have an addiction or dependance and are taking a couple a day, look at me, this is what you will become.  Stop crying about WD from 1-4 a day, suck it up, take the WD, and quit.  I guess that counts as advice but it's probably the only thing useful coming out of me ever again.  I only wish I was taking 10 or less a day, might be able to handle that WD but not 20 a day and I'm done with docs, social workers, meetings.  Screw it all.

[BrotherFrankie]

Okay. Just shut up and listen!

this is my favorite and most helpful saying... :)

[tgtiffany]

Wow.  This is amazing!!!  Not that long ago you were thinking crazy and wanting to end your life basically.  I'm soooo glad that you found what I would consider an AMAZING doctor!!!  I'm sort of late finding this post but I'm glad the others helped you as they did.  Remember to just keep your head up and don't let the little things get you down.  You've done the hard part, now you gotta just keep going through til the end :)  

[BrotherFrankie]

i have received many messages and answer in private most times due to folks getting angry with me. I often get notes of thanks as well as messages from folks who said they were at first ticked off at me but after several failed attempts now understand what I was saying and appreciate me.

the list of all my responses (posts) is available to any person who wants to see. Most responses are repetitive. Gnarly often gives the best advice and help and i often agree with all of his replies.

I dont care if you ignore my replies. its none of my business what anyone thinks of me and does not affect me in any way.

I have not been uncaring or unkind to any one nor have i given bad advice.

If anyone here actually goes to a 12 step meeting new comers are usually told to "shut up and listen" maybe in not those words but close to it. When we see folks who relapse every 30-60 days trying to tell other addicts what works for them its silly. they are not working a program most times and have not surrendered to being powerless.

Miss vicky,
you have a year plus of clean time. i have never said anything negative towards you or your advice. in fact i am blessed to see you are sober. I celebrate your recovery and am happy that you stay here and do service work.  your response of "YOU may be the grocery bagger because "it takes one to know one"." is immature and silly. knowing you thru past poists i figure you are frustrated an angry with me and it was an impulsive statement..its the equivalent of saying im rubber and your glue.... you could have said, your an addict, it takes one to know one..  :)

I am educated in addictions counseling  as well as seminary. I do full time addiction work for many years at no charge. (how many people here cant afford help?)


ibedone: you also have months of clean time and i often appreciate your kind and gentle responses to many folks here. sometimes tho i do not agree with enabling an addict to hide their addictions from a spouse or family. we are as sick as our secrets. Addiction is a family disease.

i have been a cheerleader on here as well as someone who sees addict behavior for what it is.

i can look thru a bunch of archived posts and see people who said they were clean giving that touchy feely enabling advice and later admit that they were "cheating" all along.. or slipped up but did not want to admit on forum.. is it wrong when after years of experience that i can usually see thru the lies and see red flags? then call them on it?

we all know addicts want to be babied and pat on the back.. they want the world to revolve around them. They crave the attention. i dont go there often. Its not healthy behavior. When an addict calls me AFTER the relapse i tell them make three meetings in a row and call me back when they are serious. or to call me before they pick up, not after..

There was a pregnant woman that posted on here that i was very hard on. ya know what? she was from my area and she tracked me down and thanked me (with a hug and tears) for saving her and her unborn kids life. She is now in recovery, CPS is not taking away her kids and her husband is on board with her recovery now that she is being honest.

I have been called names before. I have been hated for speaking truth to addicts.

how have i angered you folks or hurt you folks? what damaging advice have i given? because i do things a bit different than you ladies you have the right to be angry and lash out at me?

resentments are dangerous..

How many on these boards have addicts in there home that are strangers and freely help them seeking nothing in return? (i detox many people that need help)
My service work is not just posting on forums but actual sacrifice of time, resources, and everything i own to help any addict that asks for it.

I hold no hard feelings towards anyone.
You are loved
Frankie

[ImDONENoMore]

I'm with you vicki!

Brotherfrankie - WHO ARE YOU??  I think it's time you explain yourself.  What is your purpose for being here?  Why CAN'T you give more than a word or two of "advice" or encouragement?  What are you looking to gain by coming here?  I typically ignore your responses but the members here are looking for guidance and not condescension.  Can you tell us once and for all why you keep coming here????

[vicki595]

Frankie--

If you recognize that the advice given here is like a grocery bagger giving advice to a neurosurgeon...Well?   YOU may be the grocery bagger because "it takes one to know one".

Here's what I really want to say to you once and for all:

I appreciate the fact that you have many years invested in being an addict and helping addicts on the streets. I think that's marvelous.  But when you come on to this forum...you don't seem to be helpful at all. You leave one sentence or phrase responses,usually a tad insulting,and offer very little in the advice/support department. I don't understand it but so be it...you just don't come off as being very nice or helpful and you irritate some folks....
You irritate me as I'm very protective of these members and don't like to see anyone hurt.

[BrotherFrankie]

what do you mean by your reply?

[atthebeach]

i typed my last post as you were posting again.now that post is much much better than your original post.  yes the drugs def. made you think and do crazy things. yes as long as you have breathe there is hope and now you see and feel it. have faith my friend, it will help you through this and far beyond. my family endured 14 yrs. of my husbands addictions, crazy, insanity, so many emotions, sadness, despair, hurt, hate,sorrow, lies,deceit, dysfunction. we are unfortunately still feeling and living some of the consquences. we still have much work to do, i still get angry and mad sometimes at all the years that were wasted in our marriage and in our childrens lives. we have 4 children, 25,20,13 & 11. we can never get those years back. yesterday is gone, we have no promise of tomorrow, we only have today. we are trying to live it to the fullest, i am forgiving and so are the children. the LORD has really helped us with all of this. if i stay bitter i will eat away from the inside. i cant forget, but time does heal our wounds. be strong my friend. i will pray for you and your family.
may GOD bless you and yours
debbie

[atthebeach]

that is great. be good to your wife, she deserves it.  now that doctor is a keeper.. and good no doctor shopping. cut off all ties. please do your research about aftercare soon. it is so important to get that in place. therapists, drug counselors, na/aa, church ,pastors, you need support to keep you on track and to be a recovering addict and not an addictive one.  the bp can def. be a problem when going thru w/d. when my husband went into to detox his bp was 225/125 cuz he was so worried about the w/d.he got himself so anxious. the hospital called me and told me he might have a stroke or heart attack. that was 14 months ago and he is clean. now his blood pressure is great he only takes his meds. every other day, between exercising, eating right, not worried about running out of his xanax or having his affair with his methadone clinic and not lying about his use his bp is 120/80 the other day is was 115/70 now we're talking healthy. praise GOD. keep posting and let us know how you are doing.
continued blessings
debbie

[steveies]

Thanks to all that posted, believe it or not, many of your words kept me from just vanishing away from my family.  This stuff really makes you think some crazy thoughts that seem like they make sense at the time.  I forgot to mention he put me back on a low dose of celexa starting now.  Reason be because he still suspects I will have a high level of anxiety at the end of the taper.  That high BP I had was even with taking my bp medicine!  This is what concerned him the most because WD does tend to make your BP go up and it didn't matter that I was taking my meds for it.  He gave me the name of a shrink to go see after telling him I have tried other aftercare avenues.  Perhaps some personal 1 on 1 is what I need.  Things aren't looking so bad anymore, I guess you could say I feel as if there is hope.  After reading through this thread again, many of you have lifted me up even farther and called me on my addict thinking nonsense.  Changed my cell number today and deleted some contacts.  Have to make some changes, inside and out.

[udoschoices]

awesome! that's the ticket and sounds like you have great support with your wife and an understanding doctor.. much better now isn't it?  You can do it - also ask about clonidine for the BP once you quit the lortab, it worked wonders for me coming off Sub (only on less than 21 days) it will help quite a bit.

[vicki595]

Good job!!   Stick to it and you'll be fine. Try to eat a little and keep drinking. A taper will work like a charm when someone else is in charge of it!!

Think about getting some support for the recovery...therapy,groups,meetings etc...

Stay in touch...

[steveies]

Well after throwing up several times and being in extreme pain my wife called my primary care doc who told her to bring me in right now.  After crawling to the car and getting to his office, they called me in but wanted my wife to come in with me.  Explained the whole situation to him, what I have been doing, what I have been taking, my worries about my specialist being able to disclose things to my work.  Surprisingly he was very understanding and did not like the fact I have to worry about losing my job over this.  He gave me a form stating that only my wife can be a person their office would disclose anything to.  He then told me he wants me to ween off a lower strength pain med and not perks.  As I suspected, he told me oxycodone is much stronger then hydro and that the WD can be much worse for some people, me being one of them.  Due to my highblood pressure, he was very worried about me going CT as my BP was 160/115 when I got there.  
I can't disclose the taper plan, obviously, but this was the reason he wanted my wife to be there.  He put her in charge of the meds and wrote out what to do.  He was very kind and told my wife not to be too hard on me because this happens to so many people he sees.  He does not like the suboxone route, stating the half life is way longer then any other opiate I take and the long term WD from that would not be good for me.  He told me the medical community looks at people with this problem unfairly and it's a shame because docs are suppose to help people with their problems, not turn them away when they truly want help.  He did say he would be looking to see if I'm getting scripts from other docs, which I won't be.  My slate is clean with him as of today and will be unless I give reason for it not to be.  So I will try the long taper he wrote out using lortab 10 and don't have much of a choice about sticking to it, my wife will not let me near those things even if I tried.

[vicki595]

Okay...The most important thing is this:  DRINK!!   As much as you can . Water,juices,gatorade...eat as well and don't eat junk!!   It may not be as awful as you think and you'll live to tell about it!!!

Post about anything...bananas will help the RLS along with apple juice. Eat your oranges.too!  When you feel all achey just get in a hot bath or shower.  Sex is good too!

[steveies]

I have decided to take the CT WD approach.  I had my last Loratab about 3:00 which really didn't do anything to me because I require at least 3 10mg perks to feel anything.  I feel a little sweaty already and a little nervous but to hell with it, it's time to pay the piper.  Just going to treat my symptoms as they come.  Have some non-narcotic pain relievers called mobic I will use for aches, plenty of diar-meds, some klonopin, and a few different vitamins, mainly ones in the thomas list.  Just going to deal with it and see if I come out the other side in one piece.  Haven't heard of anyone that has died from WD, I know that won't happen, just will feel like it.  I'll keep you all posted.

[vicki595]

Stevie...The time is right now...lean on us...you're among friends here. Yes...go for the W/D...embrace it and live through it...it's a blip in your lifetime!!    You CAN do it! Just keep talking,keep posting and keep asking for help!  We're right here for you...

[Jimmy1975]

Hey Steve , My God brother don't be so hard on yourself ! Almost all of us have relapsed in here including me ! You sound like a great person and father . No one here is passing judgment on you and if they try they should look into there own closet before trying to clean yours ! Stay here and keep supporting your fellow comrades and we will support you . I felt the same way before I finally stopped and pray everyday that the Devil stays away ! You're still one of us and you absolutely have my support . Just keep trying and I'm sure you will succeed  and if you fall get your rear end back up and start again my friend !  Read my old post and even tho I am in fact one of those 1 to 4 pill people it was still screwing up my quality of life and I just kept trying and trying until I found a way and so will you I have no doubt ! Peace Jimmy

[vicki595]

Frankie:  "It takes one to know one".

[BrotherFrankie]

i always look at the cleantime and history of those giving advice...

sometimes its like a grocery bagger giving a neurosurgeon tips on brain surgery ...

[mellie4]

From what I've read, CT seems best, but personally, I can't do it.  I have too many people that depend on me, and when I tried, I was sooo sick.  I read about hot tubs, and got in and couldn't even get out.  Had to call my sister at work, have her take a cab to my house and help me out.  In addition to my pain issues, I also have high blood pressure and a moderate heart problem.  But because I'm "only" physically dependent, I don't have to fight the mental part of addiction.  I only need to get through the physical ... God Bless those who have both.  You are heroes in my mind, and I don't care how many times it took you to get there.

Even if there are people at AA or NA that are not truly sober, there are many, many more who work the program.  Get a sponsor.  I think that's what works best.  I have many, many friends in different 12-step programs, and the ones that are successful are the ones that WORK it.  They get a sponsor and they LISTEN to them.  

[udoschoices]

So go to AA then. Nobody offered me anything at AA and I like it better. And block te dealers numbers so they don't call you! There are so many easy ways to get past that- it's no excuse. Man I had about 8 sources I had to cut off and I did it so can you.

As IB said- take personal responsibility, nobody is sticking pills down your throat. If you want it bad enough you can get clean. If not, you won't. Simple as that.

[IBKleen]

I am so confused with you steveies. It seems there is no talking to you yet I am very concerned for you. At some point you are going to need to make changes, trust someone else...etc. Like I said earlier, I don't believe anyone is hopeless. You will need to care enough about yourself to want to make the changes and reach out for help. You will need to also stop blaming the doctors and people at meetings and anyone else that you claim not to blame who you really are blaming. the buck stops with you.

We'll be here  -  I'll speak for myself--I will be here to help you any way I can so I hope you hang around and I hope you ask for it.

Be good to yourself.

[Baker3336]

Yea, man.. You can do it. I know you've heard that before but you have a couple weeks off work, it's the right time. I like what you said about maybe needing the WD pain. It kicks ya in the *** and makes ya stronger. I'm sure you know get through that first week and just remember how terrible that week was. I wasn't taking quite as much as you but I was taking anywhere from 9-12 norco 10/325 a day and pretty much went cold turkey(3 day taper) I'm at 61 days today and feel great. You can feel good about life again. I don't like hearing the talk about ending it, I know ya said you wouldn't but the thoughts are there and that's scary. Try to go talk to someone one on one. I'm not into the aa na thing either, I understand. But there's someone out there that can help ya. Ya can't always do it alone and that's nothing to be ashamed of. These f'in pills get the best of us and it's not right. I wish ya the best of Luck. Just do it.

[steveies]

That is something about your Papa.  When I hear things like that it makes me realize I have become such a sissy.  I use to take whatever came my way, meaning I didn't give a crap about pain.  Hurt my back about 5 years ago now, that's what started my pain pill fun.  Then after the pain left, took them for fun then because I need to.  Have been on them since.  Then I got hurt at work couple months ago and have just gotten worse.  Maybe I should take WD head on like some have said, "don't be scared of it, embrace it, it means the end is near".  I seriously have to toughen back up.  I knew a couple people who went through WD and just took it, not letting it stop them from doing much.  They just kinda ignored it and treated symptoms when they needed to.  I hate what I have become because my kids are innocent victims in all this.  They have done nothing to anyone to deserve what I am doing.  I need to summon these thoughts when the time is right.

[mellie4]

You can do this.  It's a crime what these doctors do.  I'm not an addict but dependent ... and I'm tapering and having constant mild to moderate withdrawals.  And it will be a long road I know.

I think you need to be a little more positive.  And just because you haven't gotten clean doesn't mean the things you say are worthless.  There's still value in the things you've gone through and learned.  

If you have to have another surgery, you need to let the doctors know you're addicted.  They can give you something non-narcotic to help the pain.  When my pain gets bad, I think of my Papa ... He had open heart surgery and all he took was pain.  I mean, really?  Sawing open your ribs and only Tylenol?  If he could do that at 78, then I can do this.  And so can you.

AA/NA isn't for everyone.  It's worked for thousands.  But I know my ex had a sponsor who was not drinking but was a perc addict.  And when my husband had a lapse, he told him, "Just don't overdo it."  You need to find what works for you.