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For all the newbies...Detoxing from opiates info...
I usually don't post this because it's so long (plus I usually point people to my profile page..where it's posted). But, there seems to be a lot of newbies posting the last few days..so here it is...
This is a work in progress...something I've been working on off and on for the last couple of weeks. It's not considered complete, but has lots of info from lots of sources. If any of the "old timers" have anything to add, let me know and I'll add it to the document. I hope to use this to post a general "how to" every couple of days or so.
Listed below are suggestions for detoxing and quitting an opiate addiction. They are just suggestions compiled from the detox plans of people that have gone through cold turkey detox before. They are just that, suggestions, and any detox plan is best when done under a doctor's care. Consult your doctor before trying any of the suggestions below.
This is prewritten for anyone who is beginning, or planning on beginning, a cold turkey withdrawal to opiates. This includes drugs such as tramadol (Ultracet and Ultram) codeine (Tylenol #3, #4), Darvocet, Hydrocodone (Vicodin, Norco, Lortab and derivatives), Oxycodone (Endocet, Percocet, Oxycontin), Morphine, Demerol. Fentanyl, and Dilaudud. There are many other opiates not listed, so if you don’t see it listed, you can still use these suggestions if it’s an opiate based addiction. None of these apply to benzodiazepine based addictions. These addictions should never be dealt with by going cold turkey. Always consult a doctor for a detox plan for benzos.
First of all, opiate withdrawals are uncomfortable, but rarely life threatening. You may think you’re going to die, but most of the withdrawal symptoms are just very uncomfortable. If possible, take some time off work or schedule a week or so in order to fully detox. You will honestly not feel like doing much anyway. Opiate withdrawal symptoms usually start 12-24 hours after your last dose. But, the timing of withdrawal symptoms depends upon the drug taken, length of time you’ve been taking it, and how you react to medications. The physical withdrawals usually last 3-7 days, with days 3 and 4 being the worst. Once again, this is all dependent on the person. You can expect these symptoms. Dilated pupils, diarrhea, runny nose, goose bumps, abdominal pain, stomach cramps, sweating, agitation, anxiety, nausea, vomiting, leg cramps, general aches and pains, and sleeplessness. This list is not absolute. You may experience all of these symptoms, only some of them, or other symptoms. Again, we are all different. Below is the famous Thomas Recipe. It gives some general information along with supplements that help with the withdrawal symptoms. The only thing I would add to this list is a blood pressure drug named clonidine. It effectively lowers the blood pressure and lessens many of the withdrawal symptoms. Most any doctor will prescribe it if you’re honest as to why you need it. Discuss dosages and frequency with your doctor.
Thomas Recipe:
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).
How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5. During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it. At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help. With breakfast, take the mineral supplement. As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.
After withdrawals, the fight has just begun. It is as important to have a plan for recovery as it is to have a plan for detox. Some people swear by AA/NA and the 12 step process. Others take the private therapy route. There are many options, and there is truly something for everyone. Whether you attend meetings every night, group meetings every week, or therapy every other day, find a support system and work on your recovery. The withdrawals will be the most physically challenging part of your recovery, but the mental part that comes afterwards is just as hard. The best defense to relapse is to have a plan and stick with it.
This is a work in progress...something I've been working on off and on for the last couple of weeks. It's not considered complete, but has lots of info from lots of sources. If any of the "old timers" have anything to add, let me know and I'll add it to the document. I hope to use this to post a general "how to" every couple of days or so.
Listed below are suggestions for detoxing and quitting an opiate addiction. They are just suggestions compiled from the detox plans of people that have gone through cold turkey detox before. They are just that, suggestions, and any detox plan is best when done under a doctor's care. Consult your doctor before trying any of the suggestions below.
This is prewritten for anyone who is beginning, or planning on beginning, a cold turkey withdrawal to opiates. This includes drugs such as tramadol (Ultracet and Ultram) codeine (Tylenol #3, #4), Darvocet, Hydrocodone (Vicodin, Norco, Lortab and derivatives), Oxycodone (Endocet, Percocet, Oxycontin), Morphine, Demerol. Fentanyl, and Dilaudud. There are many other opiates not listed, so if you don’t see it listed, you can still use these suggestions if it’s an opiate based addiction. None of these apply to benzodiazepine based addictions. These addictions should never be dealt with by going cold turkey. Always consult a doctor for a detox plan for benzos.
First of all, opiate withdrawals are uncomfortable, but rarely life threatening. You may think you’re going to die, but most of the withdrawal symptoms are just very uncomfortable. If possible, take some time off work or schedule a week or so in order to fully detox. You will honestly not feel like doing much anyway. Opiate withdrawal symptoms usually start 12-24 hours after your last dose. But, the timing of withdrawal symptoms depends upon the drug taken, length of time you’ve been taking it, and how you react to medications. The physical withdrawals usually last 3-7 days, with days 3 and 4 being the worst. Once again, this is all dependent on the person. You can expect these symptoms. Dilated pupils, diarrhea, runny nose, goose bumps, abdominal pain, stomach cramps, sweating, agitation, anxiety, nausea, vomiting, leg cramps, general aches and pains, and sleeplessness. This list is not absolute. You may experience all of these symptoms, only some of them, or other symptoms. Again, we are all different. Below is the famous Thomas Recipe. It gives some general information along with supplements that help with the withdrawal symptoms. The only thing I would add to this list is a blood pressure drug named clonidine. It effectively lowers the blood pressure and lessens many of the withdrawal symptoms. Most any doctor will prescribe it if you’re honest as to why you need it. Discuss dosages and frequency with your doctor.
Thomas Recipe:
1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.
2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).
3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.
4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.
5. Vitamin B6 caps.
6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).
How to use the recipe:
Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5. During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.
Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it. At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help. With breakfast, take the mineral supplement. As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.
After withdrawals, the fight has just begun. It is as important to have a plan for recovery as it is to have a plan for detox. Some people swear by AA/NA and the 12 step process. Others take the private therapy route. There are many options, and there is truly something for everyone. Whether you attend meetings every night, group meetings every week, or therapy every other day, find a support system and work on your recovery. The withdrawals will be the most physically challenging part of your recovery, but the mental part that comes afterwards is just as hard. The best defense to relapse is to have a plan and stick with it.
I've been taking them 4 years due to back troubles (like many of the people here who got hooked). I'm 18 days clean right now, seeing a therapist, and doing the good things :)
Thank God! I thought for a minute I was the ONLY one still awake right now in the EST time zone!!! I admire some of the advice you have given- and I envy your 18 days- I am now in hour 81! Still in the hour counting!!! Sometimes the minutes....I keep reading for inspiration. I read a lot of what you had to say and can totally relate- sometimes I feel so alone in all this. I have no one to share this with. I went c/t and no sub. But the Thomas Recipe has saved me!! I'm really not doing as bad physically as I am mentally. Nice to know your still awake right now though!!!!
I'm still awake as well. In West Virginia.....Where are you? I haven't started my plan yet. Still working on it. Me and my husband both are going to get clean together.
In Ohio- and it's nice to know you have spousal support- a great support system will see you through it....I know it is scarry- but I just dove right in!! Ignorance is bliss sometimes! HA! GA Guy has a lot of good information and it truly works- I rely on this forum for inspiration and reality check for myself!
You'll get through it dear and soon you'll be able to count in days, then months, and then years! Just a quick note on the sleep, it's one of the last things to return to normal. I've been clean for quite a few months, and I still don't get the sleep I used to. And you're not alone. I too had no support from family or friends (my choice, I didn't tell them), and this forum was my life-line. You'll find lots of support and encouragement here and lots of good advice from posters like Ga Guy, etc.
Good luck to you,
Yoda
Good luck to you,
Yoda
i'm on day one, feeling a little nauseated. i did have about an hour where i felt really normal, though. looking forward to making it through this.
GG please don't take this wrong but I wish you wouldn't push the Thomas recipe on newcomers...
It involves using another narcotic that is not the way......
If people want to use it or need info about it thats cool but please don't promote it....
It is not the best or should be the first move by someone new trying to get clean..........
It involves using another narcotic that is not the way......
If people want to use it or need info about it thats cool but please don't promote it....
It is not the best or should be the first move by someone new trying to get clean..........
what about the miniumum?
Amodium---------------for the diarrhea
tylenol PM-------------for the sleepless nights
Gator-Aid---------------for the hydration
Amodium---------------for the diarrhea
tylenol PM-------------for the sleepless nights
Gator-Aid---------------for the hydration
The ativan saved me. I had only 4 of them so I used them wisely, broke them in pieces. I tried all kinds of over the counter sleep-aids and none helped me . The RLS was horrible and the ativan was the only thing that helped me.
This is what I think. Whatever way works for you to get clean and stay clean is the way to go. Please do not discourage me by saying "YOU CANNOT do it without" ..going to a detox clinic, n/a meetings, a few valiums, etc. etc. Encourage me please. Give me hope, faith in myself, feedback, suggestions and your support. When Iam down, please do not kick me, belittle me or make me feel incapable of recovery. Make me believe I AM stronger than my addiction, That the person I really am can concur all the obsitcles I am about to face. By your examples, trials & tribulations, show me I have the power to do this. Feed me all the information in a possitive manner, for what works for one may not work for another. This forum is a life line, a spark of hope. Give to me what you can because you want me to live and perhaps help someone else in return. You are all such an important part of my recovery. Thank you. Magi
I have to say Beach- in all the posts I read you always tell it like you see it. No holding back! I just want to clarify for GA Guy- he did NOT push the Thomas Recipe on at least myself. And there are ZERO, NONE of the narcotics part of the Thomas Recipe I use. NOT the immodium or Valium but solely the T-Tyrosine and Valerian Root. For me THAT is the only part of it I use. I come here for the inspiration part. I would have to say I kept swaying on trying to get some type of that Sub, but since I didn't want anyone to know that I used my prescription pain medication LONG after I really no longer needed it I felt I got myself into it and I had to get myself out without admitting to my Dr. what I did. I felt ashamed, embarassed and negative about myself. As good as the people on here made Sub sound, I just plugged along the first few minutes, hours and days with L-Tyrosine and Valerian Root. And for me that is what it took- I had a bad night last night- the mental part more so than physical symptoms- but I value the honesty of all the people on here. I just wanted to add my two peas! Thanks!
Beach, I don't really think he's trying to "push" anything on the newcomers. I think he is providing a service and people have heard about the Thomas Recipe so much, if they don't get it from him they'll get it from someone else.
When I quit, I didn't even know of such a list and I would've been grateful for even a wipiece of that information. Remember, this is a public site. Also if you have half a brain, you can figure out if you need to take a benzo or not. And speaking of that, as far as the valium or benzo goes, that's something you have to get from a doctor unless you find it on the street or steal it from Granny while she's sleeping. Most people are not going to rush out for a prescription for Valium and if they do, I think the dr. will help them decide whether they need it or not..
I also think we need to give the newcomers and all readers a little credit for not blindly followng some recipe that someone else came up with. Will the real Thomas please stand up?
If we are going to start calling offering information "pushing", I think it should apply to all the other things that have been so highly touted. Like the Sub which did wonders for some but was horrible for others. Or the methadone debate. Or at one time when the Tramadol was a god-send and then people found out you could become addicted to it. Just like AA, Just like NA. I know you bring the valium up because it's bad news to get addicted to a benzo and has wicked withdrawals, but the recipe does mention tapering off of it. It doesn't say it's a permanent solution.
I'm sure GaGuy can speak for himself, but I hate to see anyone discouraged from providing information. But thank you for bringing it up in a nice way.
Off to school,
Yoda
When I quit, I didn't even know of such a list and I would've been grateful for even a wipiece of that information. Remember, this is a public site. Also if you have half a brain, you can figure out if you need to take a benzo or not. And speaking of that, as far as the valium or benzo goes, that's something you have to get from a doctor unless you find it on the street or steal it from Granny while she's sleeping. Most people are not going to rush out for a prescription for Valium and if they do, I think the dr. will help them decide whether they need it or not..
I also think we need to give the newcomers and all readers a little credit for not blindly followng some recipe that someone else came up with. Will the real Thomas please stand up?
If we are going to start calling offering information "pushing", I think it should apply to all the other things that have been so highly touted. Like the Sub which did wonders for some but was horrible for others. Or the methadone debate. Or at one time when the Tramadol was a god-send and then people found out you could become addicted to it. Just like AA, Just like NA. I know you bring the valium up because it's bad news to get addicted to a benzo and has wicked withdrawals, but the recipe does mention tapering off of it. It doesn't say it's a permanent solution.
I'm sure GaGuy can speak for himself, but I hate to see anyone discouraged from providing information. But thank you for bringing it up in a nice way.
Off to school,
Yoda
I didn't follow the Thomas recipe, but it was nice to hear all of the withdrawal symptoms I was having were real and somewhat treatable. I did use the advice about the jacuzzi, I think I took about 4 or 5 jacuzzis on day 2, it helped tremendously. I used Advil PM for sleep (I hate Tylenol now because it's part of the Vicodin) and I didn't use Immodium because I figured my body was trying to cleanse itself so I wasn't going to stop the diarrhea (I didn't have that particular symptom all that bad, so maybe it was easier for me not to use it). My main thing was, as someone else put it, feeling like a raw nerve, and horrific stomach pain and body aches, even a fever.
I for one was glad to hear about the thomas recipe. Its what saved me. Just because it has a narcotic in it doesnt mean that it has to be classified as a narcotic recipe, because with me, I took everything BUT the Valium!! I didnt need it. I just took the B's, Vitamin C, tyrosine, and glutomine and it got me through!! There's nothing wrong with that!! I can almost say, that if it hadnt of been for that recipe, I wouldnt be clean right now, it truly made it possible for me to be able to fuction while I detoxed.
Valium (diazepam) is in a class of drugs called benzodiazepines It's a narcotic? I didn't know that.
Now that I looked, maybe I was taking more of the Amino acids therapy?? Is there a diff between the two?? I took what Fladdict suggested which was..
L-Tyrosine
L-Glutomine
VitaminC ester buffed
B-Complex
Multi-Vitamin
5HTP
L-Tyrosine
L-Glutomine
VitaminC ester buffed
B-Complex
Multi-Vitamin
5HTP
Absolutely not I push inpatient detox and inpatient drug rehab
then 90 meetings in 90 days.........
then 90 meetings in 90 days.........
The Thomas Recipe does NOT contain another narcotic. If it did, you wouldn't have withdrawals. It does mention Valium, Ativan, Xanax, or Klonopin..which are benzos, not narcotics. I find it funny that some people have no problems with someone taking Sub for short term detox, but complain about the Thomas Recipe because of the benzos. I personally have no problems with either, as long as they are used as intended and in moderation. That's why I put the caveat in there about the benzos being addictive (which the Thomas recipe doesn't stress enough).
And beach, you know I respect you, but I don't think I've ever "pushed" anything on anyone in this forum. It's all about information and education.
Benzo's are narcotics.... My ignorance led me to look it up on the net. I guess something can be a narcotic w/out being an opiate? I don't know I'm confused, but 'narcotic' free, at least for today!
Medically, as far as I know and I'm in the field, valium, klonopin, ativan, and xanax are considered benzodiazapines. Things that have opiates in them like Vicodin, Loratab, Oxys, etc. are considered opiates/narcotics.
Anyway, regardless I'm writing b/c I'm absolutely MISERABLE. I need help and support. I have about 12 Lortab 10mg/660 left. I have about 4 Soma (muscle relaxers) left. The combo has been my drug of choice for the last year, starting with 1 5mg Lortab and 1 Soma and eventually getting prescribed four of each a day w/ the Lortab being the 10s. I, however, have lied and manipulated my way in the last few months into getting much more than than, in the last week I have taken almost 120 Lortabs, prior to that I took 120 in about 3 weeks, prior to that 120 7.5s in 3 weeks so avg of 10-15 a day. My mother is here and helping and giving tough love...she wants me to quit cold turkey. I want to taper since I have them, I went, as of Wed. night, from taking 10-15 a day to three a day and feeling HORRIBLE. I have all the symptoms with the anxiety being the worst. And...it gets even better...I have meds to help me get through this although if they are helping then w/o meds I can't IMAGINE what it would be like. I have Klonopin (been on for a long time for anxiety, Seroquel (also for anxiety), and Ambien CR that I've been on for over a year. I do not like any of those drugs so I'm not that worried about getting off of them (except for no sleep if I stop the Ambien).
Point is, I'm feeling absolutely crappy. I've taken baths, tried to drink fluids, just had my first food (if you count soup broth and a few noodles in it as food), and have taken meds to go to sleep. I'm shaking, I have RLS, I have aches all over, I'm nauseated, and the anxiety my goodness the anxiety. My husband is also not supportive (he just doesn't understand this) and it kills my heart to know I've hurt him and lied to him.
Someone help. I can get the stuff for the Thomas recipe but should I only start that when the Lortabs are gone? Like I said I've been breaking them in half and taking about 3 a day (which gives me about 4 more days) and I still feel miserable.
Anyway, regardless I'm writing b/c I'm absolutely MISERABLE. I need help and support. I have about 12 Lortab 10mg/660 left. I have about 4 Soma (muscle relaxers) left. The combo has been my drug of choice for the last year, starting with 1 5mg Lortab and 1 Soma and eventually getting prescribed four of each a day w/ the Lortab being the 10s. I, however, have lied and manipulated my way in the last few months into getting much more than than, in the last week I have taken almost 120 Lortabs, prior to that I took 120 in about 3 weeks, prior to that 120 7.5s in 3 weeks so avg of 10-15 a day. My mother is here and helping and giving tough love...she wants me to quit cold turkey. I want to taper since I have them, I went, as of Wed. night, from taking 10-15 a day to three a day and feeling HORRIBLE. I have all the symptoms with the anxiety being the worst. And...it gets even better...I have meds to help me get through this although if they are helping then w/o meds I can't IMAGINE what it would be like. I have Klonopin (been on for a long time for anxiety, Seroquel (also for anxiety), and Ambien CR that I've been on for over a year. I do not like any of those drugs so I'm not that worried about getting off of them (except for no sleep if I stop the Ambien).
Point is, I'm feeling absolutely crappy. I've taken baths, tried to drink fluids, just had my first food (if you count soup broth and a few noodles in it as food), and have taken meds to go to sleep. I'm shaking, I have RLS, I have aches all over, I'm nauseated, and the anxiety my goodness the anxiety. My husband is also not supportive (he just doesn't understand this) and it kills my heart to know I've hurt him and lied to him.
Someone help. I can get the stuff for the Thomas recipe but should I only start that when the Lortabs are gone? Like I said I've been breaking them in half and taking about 3 a day (which gives me about 4 more days) and I still feel miserable.
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