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A Possible Help for WD Symptoms?
I am a pain management patient. I am maintained (at the moment until something stronger is necessary) on Roxicodone 15mg (2 tabs every 4 hours) with Oxydose liquid 20mg/ml (1 dropperful every 4 hours for breakthrough pain) for adhesive arachnoiditis. The arach was caused by a pre-surgical myelogram. Unless I want no hope of being able to walk, I have no choice, I have to remain on pain meds for the rest of my life unless someone figures out how to untangle spinal cord nerves that have welded themselves to each other. HOWEVER...
The arachnoiditis didn't start until about 4-5 months after the surgery, which was a complete success. I had discs removed from my neck at 3 levels, I had the sterilized cadaver bone grafts and the whole thing fused with a 4" titanium plate held in place with 4 screws. I was home from the hospital within 24 hours and except for the fact that I had to wear a collar that could have supported the head of the Statue of Liberty for 3 months, I could not have been better. I went from taking Vicodin ES at the beginning of my injury, to taking MASSIVE amounts of Vicodin ES, to taking two Oxy IR every three hours for six months before the surgery, to taking ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from the time I got off the operating table, and I never had even a trace of a withdrawal symptom. In fact, I was chomping at the bit for two weeks after the surgery because I was so excited that I was no longer taking pain meds because I could have a glass of wine with dinner if I wanted one, but because I had been taking the opiates for so many years, the pharmacist said it would be a lot safer for my liver if I waited two weeks before introducing it to alcohol after all it had been through. I had been on opiates for SIX YEARS before the surgery and dropped them CT the minute I woke up from the surgery. Didn't even need pain meds post-operatively.
Fast forward eight years to today. Because of the arachnoiditis I, as I said, am now a lifelong pain management patient. If I misjudge and forget to call my doctor on the correct day and have to wait even 12 extra hours for my prescription paper to be overnighted to me (my doc is two hours away, I can't drive, it's bad enough having to go see him every other month), I am going through utterly HIDEOUS withdrawals. Anxiety-ridden, restless to the point of being driven to distraction, sometimes nauseous, sometimes not, but always with that burning feeling in my muscles and feeling like I just want to jump right out of my skin. I have done a LOT of thinking, and this is what I have come up with, and was wondering if it might possibly be a good way for a person who wanted to ditch opiates to do so.
The only thing that's different between me now, going thru WD if my scrip is 12 hours late, and me waking up from the surgery and needing no meds, is that immediately following the surgery I was given an injection of steroids, and I took a Medrol DosePak for a week after the surgery to prevent swelling of the spinal cord that could lead to paralysis.
You guys here know more than any doctor and many pharmacists know about meds and how they work and how they affect each other. Do y'all think that perhaps the steroids had a hand in my completely leaving behind the pain meds with absolutely NO WD symptoms? And if so, wouldn't it be a good way for someone to go? Suboxone sounds like it helps a lot, but then you have to get away from that. Same thing with Methadone. It seems like all the things that help, except for the Thomas Recipe and just going CT, also have the potential to become problematic. Something like the Medrol DosePak contains 7 days worth of pills, you take them exactly as they are laid out in the package, you build them up, you taper them off, and you're done. IF that is what helped me, it could save a lot of people a lot of pain. Has anyone else had an experience similar to this or was I a fluke?
I just wanted to throw this out there because you guys here are all so great to everyone, it really bothers me to see y'all going through the torture that I know you're going through. I am SO hoping that something this simple might be helpful to some of you.
Ghilly
The arachnoiditis didn't start until about 4-5 months after the surgery, which was a complete success. I had discs removed from my neck at 3 levels, I had the sterilized cadaver bone grafts and the whole thing fused with a 4" titanium plate held in place with 4 screws. I was home from the hospital within 24 hours and except for the fact that I had to wear a collar that could have supported the head of the Statue of Liberty for 3 months, I could not have been better. I went from taking Vicodin ES at the beginning of my injury, to taking MASSIVE amounts of Vicodin ES, to taking two Oxy IR every three hours for six months before the surgery, to taking ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from the time I got off the operating table, and I never had even a trace of a withdrawal symptom. In fact, I was chomping at the bit for two weeks after the surgery because I was so excited that I was no longer taking pain meds because I could have a glass of wine with dinner if I wanted one, but because I had been taking the opiates for so many years, the pharmacist said it would be a lot safer for my liver if I waited two weeks before introducing it to alcohol after all it had been through. I had been on opiates for SIX YEARS before the surgery and dropped them CT the minute I woke up from the surgery. Didn't even need pain meds post-operatively.
Fast forward eight years to today. Because of the arachnoiditis I, as I said, am now a lifelong pain management patient. If I misjudge and forget to call my doctor on the correct day and have to wait even 12 extra hours for my prescription paper to be overnighted to me (my doc is two hours away, I can't drive, it's bad enough having to go see him every other month), I am going through utterly HIDEOUS withdrawals. Anxiety-ridden, restless to the point of being driven to distraction, sometimes nauseous, sometimes not, but always with that burning feeling in my muscles and feeling like I just want to jump right out of my skin. I have done a LOT of thinking, and this is what I have come up with, and was wondering if it might possibly be a good way for a person who wanted to ditch opiates to do so.
The only thing that's different between me now, going thru WD if my scrip is 12 hours late, and me waking up from the surgery and needing no meds, is that immediately following the surgery I was given an injection of steroids, and I took a Medrol DosePak for a week after the surgery to prevent swelling of the spinal cord that could lead to paralysis.
You guys here know more than any doctor and many pharmacists know about meds and how they work and how they affect each other. Do y'all think that perhaps the steroids had a hand in my completely leaving behind the pain meds with absolutely NO WD symptoms? And if so, wouldn't it be a good way for someone to go? Suboxone sounds like it helps a lot, but then you have to get away from that. Same thing with Methadone. It seems like all the things that help, except for the Thomas Recipe and just going CT, also have the potential to become problematic. Something like the Medrol DosePak contains 7 days worth of pills, you take them exactly as they are laid out in the package, you build them up, you taper them off, and you're done. IF that is what helped me, it could save a lot of people a lot of pain. Has anyone else had an experience similar to this or was I a fluke?
I just wanted to throw this out there because you guys here are all so great to everyone, it really bothers me to see y'all going through the torture that I know you're going through. I am SO hoping that something this simple might be helpful to some of you.
Ghilly
Hi Ghilly -
Sorry for the delay in writing but am just learning about how to navigate the website and saw your earlier post asking about what I did re: steroids affecting my joints. Over a period of about 3 years I had both hips and both shoulders replaced. Have had some thigh residual pain and now have a bit of recurrence in my left shoulder which will need fixing again. While I have had some residual pain thanks to the titainium in my joints, I have gotten rid of the deep boney pain of bone on bone joint contact and that is a wonderful thing. However, getting off this Ultram is a trip I never expected to take about 10 years ago when my doc said, "Well, looks like this back and joint thing is going to be with you awhile, let's see if we can get good results with this Ultram, IT IS NOT HABIT FORMING" - - Yeah, right, and pigs fly. I realize he didn't know and that he was trying to help me, and he did. But it is now time to move on and the Ultram is a very unwelcome guest at this point.
Anyhow, wanted to give you a little background on my hookup with Tramadol and I am probably like a million other folks looking for an easy out (or less uncomfortable).
Thanks for caring -
Sorry for the delay in writing but am just learning about how to navigate the website and saw your earlier post asking about what I did re: steroids affecting my joints. Over a period of about 3 years I had both hips and both shoulders replaced. Have had some thigh residual pain and now have a bit of recurrence in my left shoulder which will need fixing again. While I have had some residual pain thanks to the titainium in my joints, I have gotten rid of the deep boney pain of bone on bone joint contact and that is a wonderful thing. However, getting off this Ultram is a trip I never expected to take about 10 years ago when my doc said, "Well, looks like this back and joint thing is going to be with you awhile, let's see if we can get good results with this Ultram, IT IS NOT HABIT FORMING" - - Yeah, right, and pigs fly. I realize he didn't know and that he was trying to help me, and he did. But it is now time to move on and the Ultram is a very unwelcome guest at this point.
Anyhow, wanted to give you a little background on my hookup with Tramadol and I am probably like a million other folks looking for an easy out (or less uncomfortable).
Thanks for caring -
I had 4 steroid inhections into my muscle/trigger points yesterday....my doc uses a high grade and little if any is absorbed into my blood stream...i get no bloating or weight gain...now with the pill packs...i do, the make me gain a little weight that week and bad they are not good for our bones if overused over use can cause a moon face, fat back, and decreased production of the steroid from the adrenal gland,,,that is why with a pill/dose pack they taper you down at the end of the week to get your adrenal gland kicked in...some people have to live on steroids daily due to their disease...people who use it alot like that will be more prone to have the symptoms like that...my grandmother has been on them for years for myathenis gravis..they switched her to remeron/a new immunosupressent that is very costly and she cant really afford it...she got the doc to switch her back to the prednisone as she felt so much less pain and more energy on the prednisone...she is 89 years old and does not care about side effects...she just wants to feel good enough to go to the boats and gamble! She is a hoot/and it is cheap
I already have talked to my neurologist about steroid injections for the pain, and he is dead set against them for the sole reason that epidural steroid injections have been found to be another cause of adhesive arachnoiditis. In his opinion, I've got enough damage done to my spinal cord without injecting something that stands a chance of worsening it. I have to agree with him, I can't deal with the idea of this possibly being made worse when we know that steroid injections have been proven to be a contributing cause.
What made me mention the steroids in this forum was the fact that even though I had been on opioids for six years before my surgery, I quit them CT as soon as I woke up from the surgery. I never felt even one twinge of a withdrawal symptom, and I can only think that perhaps it was because I had had the bolus injection of steroids before they woke me up, and then took the Medrol DosePak for seven days afterwards. I was thinking that by the time I was weaned off the steroids, whatever really bad withdrawal symptoms I would have felt without the steroids were over, and there was enough of a residual effect from the steroids to ward off any further symptoms after that week. Granted, while steroids are not safe for everyone, many people can take them without any serious side effects, especially for a short course like a week. If a weeklong course of steroids can help people avoid the horrors of opiate withdrawal, I think it would be a lot safer for people than using other drugs like suboxone or methadone to help detox, and it would certainly be easier than going CT. I just wish I knew for sure if that was really what helped me. I have to think that it was, because on the two occasions that I have had to go a day without pain meds because of poor planning on my part (I called too late for my refill), naturally I didn't have any steroids and within 8 hours of my last dose I was going into withdrawal symptoms, the worst of which was the feeling that I was going to jump out of my own skin. I just think that, as I said, a short course of steroids would be a lot safer and more effective in helping people detox than using other narcotics.
Ghilly
What made me mention the steroids in this forum was the fact that even though I had been on opioids for six years before my surgery, I quit them CT as soon as I woke up from the surgery. I never felt even one twinge of a withdrawal symptom, and I can only think that perhaps it was because I had had the bolus injection of steroids before they woke me up, and then took the Medrol DosePak for seven days afterwards. I was thinking that by the time I was weaned off the steroids, whatever really bad withdrawal symptoms I would have felt without the steroids were over, and there was enough of a residual effect from the steroids to ward off any further symptoms after that week. Granted, while steroids are not safe for everyone, many people can take them without any serious side effects, especially for a short course like a week. If a weeklong course of steroids can help people avoid the horrors of opiate withdrawal, I think it would be a lot safer for people than using other drugs like suboxone or methadone to help detox, and it would certainly be easier than going CT. I just wish I knew for sure if that was really what helped me. I have to think that it was, because on the two occasions that I have had to go a day without pain meds because of poor planning on my part (I called too late for my refill), naturally I didn't have any steroids and within 8 hours of my last dose I was going into withdrawal symptoms, the worst of which was the feeling that I was going to jump out of my own skin. I just think that, as I said, a short course of steroids would be a lot safer and more effective in helping people detox than using other narcotics.
Ghilly
I have some experience with steroidal use. First of all I have something called Addison's Disease, and I have had to take prednisone since I had my first child 24 years ago. I felt like I was dying before they started me on it and all it does for me is make me feel normal. My weight is a pretty steady 110lbs, BUT in instances when I had to have extra coritsone (hospitalization and detoxing) I did notice swelling and just water retention in general. I also had the red hive like reaction and it isn't because the drug itself is toxic for me. What I'm trying to say (sorry this is so long) is that maybe it is okay for you to take in smaller doses.
Also I have chronic pain from C3 to C6 caused from two separate injuries and I have had the shots which I think are completely different than taking it orally or by IV. I would strongly suggest you mention this to your doctor, because from what you said steroids kind of made all of the difference in what happened after before and after to you. I have heard people say there is no pain med that helped as much as injections at the site of pain triggers.
Good luck, and I'm so sorry you are in pain and in the position you are right now. Again sorry this is a novel.
Lisa
Also I have chronic pain from C3 to C6 caused from two separate injuries and I have had the shots which I think are completely different than taking it orally or by IV. I would strongly suggest you mention this to your doctor, because from what you said steroids kind of made all of the difference in what happened after before and after to you. I have heard people say there is no pain med that helped as much as injections at the site of pain triggers.
Good luck, and I'm so sorry you are in pain and in the position you are right now. Again sorry this is a novel.
Lisa
As both of you said, steroids are not good over long term use. I was just doing some soul searching and thinking about stuff, and it dawned on me that hey! I had been on opiates for six years and had stopped taking them without even thinking about it, and the ONLY thing that I could attribute it to was the fact that I had been given the steroids. If that's what it was, then a short, week-long course of steroids might be a way to ease the torture of WD symptoms in people who are wanting to get clean, so I wanted to mention it in case it could help someone.
Wings, that's HORRIBLE what happened to you!!! How scary that must have been!
Ghilly
Wings, that's HORRIBLE what happened to you!!! How scary that must have been!
Ghilly
Thanks for the hug, Rose. :) Some days I really need one. Sorry to hear that you're dealing with chronic pain as well. I really admire people who can live through the pain without the opiates. I don't have that choice, well, at least not if I want to be able to be anything but bedridden. If it was a case of me simply being able to tough out the pain, I could do that, but it's a matter of not being able to even put an ounce of weight on my feet, because the nerve pain that this involves makes it feel like I have thousands of shards of broken glass stuck in the soles of my feet, and this is only really made juuust bearable by the use of the opioids. I truly hope that your pain stays at a level that makes it possible for you to remain clean. I think it's wonderful that you are doing that.
Ghilly
Ghilly
Greetings - Read your note and want to wish you well in your endeavor. Hang on, new ideas are being created every day and hopefully one will work for you - Just a word of caution about the steroids - While they are marvelous and work extremely in some cases, they may also cause some situations that are less than desireable. After my second discectomy/fusion (autonomous bone) in the cervical area I awoke in the hospital to find a decadron drip being administered and my body about the color of a sub-burned baby. Glowing red. While the decadron (or something) apparently helped control the swelling, it appears this along with other steroids created a condition within my body called Avascular Necrosis (literally translated is "bone death"). Seems blood blow thru the larger joints is impeded to the point of causing the bone to die and appear on radio scans like a very tiny troll has been at work with a tiny ice cream scoop. Liberally dipping out chunks of bone from the "ball" section of both my hips and shoulders. Have had all four replaced with a re-do coming for my left shoulder. This doesn't happen very often and it very hard to specifically identify the cause, but it is rather unpleasant until repaired. The condition is also caused by trauma, alcoholism and I am sure a host of others, but be aware the possibility exists -
Whatever you decide I hope you find your answers soon -
Whatever you decide I hope you find your answers soon -
Steroids do help with back pain...I had injections yesterday and take doses off and on for sinus/allergies as mine are severe...I feel very good while on them tho some say they make them irritable...they reduce your immune response thereby reducing swelling and pain...not good long term so I try and be careful how often i do a dose pack..I have more energy and just feel better but perhaps it is because i am not in pain and feel better physically while I am on them...never thought about using them during WDs tho...I do know i try not to take a dose too close to bedtime as they can keep me up...good point
Thanks for the information!! I guess the steriods could have been something that took away the w/d's.
Hon it sure does sound like you have some serious pain issues. I'm so sorry. I'm a chronic pain patient as well, but currently I'm not taking any opiates. I don't know what the future will bring but I'm clean now. Many blessings to you!! (((HUGS)))
Hon it sure does sound like you have some serious pain issues. I'm so sorry. I'm a chronic pain patient as well, but currently I'm not taking any opiates. I don't know what the future will bring but I'm clean now. Many blessings to you!! (((HUGS)))
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