Family members and your situation.

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

I was just curious how your better halfs handle your predicaments.  I mean are they sympathetic?  Do they just not have a clue?  Do they have problems as well? Do they choose to just not know?  I was just wondering what your situations are like. My husband is wonderful. He does not quite understand what is going on.  I take my meds for a legitamite reason.  I do other things to try and help with the chronic pain.  As I have said before Chiropractic, acupunture, meditation yada yada yada.  He understands that I am in pain.  But he does not quite understand why I am so obsessive with my meds.  Especially before vacations.  I give him my medicine to give me although he does not understand why.  Then about 12 hours after I give him my meds to keep and hide I am calling him at work to ask where they are.  I know he thinks I am WACKY but he got WACKY when he married me HAHA. What is your life like?
Sincerely,
Marcie.

P.S. Consider this an open thread. If you cant get in to start another one feel free to jump in.  This is not a crisis thread!
Have a good day all!

[Dee]

Hi, hope all is well today, I just wrote a long post then got booted, so I have no idea if it got posted and is going to show, if it does, forgive me..I'll never remember all I said! lol
my hubby is disabled, he's had 2 surgery's on his back, he has nuts and bolts also a wire that holds his spine together, so, he and I are on this roller coaster ride together, he get's oxy and I get oxy's and we split them down the middle, pretty sad isn't it....on top off everything else that is wrong with me, my PC doc sent me to a hemotolgist because my blood work is always out of whack, he seems like a great doc and very interested in getting to the bottom of all this, I have alot of tests schuled in the following weeks,who knows maybe he'll be able to find out what is wrong and why I'm always fighting some kind of infection
he's pretty sure is nothing malignant (thank God) he's putting his money on my immune system not working right,though that wouldnt' have anything to do with my heart attack or the artery disease in my legs, we'll see.....sorry I got off the subject
as I said my hubby is in this with me, he's just as addicted as Iam, it must be hard for you if your hubby doesn't really understand what your going through, what does he think when your going through withdrawals?...does he think that your just sick again? I'm sorry to ask this, but can you tell me again why your on pain meds and how much you take...if you don't mind telling me
have a great one..talk again soon, going to try to post this again...Dee

[Dee]

Marcie,
I'm sorry, I should have read the other posts before I blabbed!
I saw that you wrote you have fibro, I have that to among other things, It's horrible to have, and not many people understand and alot of doctors still feel negative about it...if they could live in my body for one day they would surely understand!!
tell me, is your doctor sympathic (sp) to you...how long did it take to be diagnosed with it..

[Hope]

Hi,My name is Hope.It,s not my real name but it,s a pretty good representative.Because for the first time in a long time it,s what I have for myself "HOPE".A little about myself...I've suffered with migrains since childhood.I remember being given valium and morphine among others as early as 8 years old.They did not know alot about migrains when I was growing up.It was also quite an ordeal just to be diagnosed correctly.The doctors came up with all sorts of wonderful ideas of what I might have. From the brain tumor theory all the up to the I was just plain nuts,and it "Was all in my head".Finally when I was dignosed I was sent on my way with a perscription for tylenol 3.I was probably 12.It goes without saying I LOVED THEM!!!They dulled the pain,not only the pain in my head but the pain in my heart.What a bonus!My abuse of these drugs went on for years.I began useing them just for the high,It was no longer about my migrains.Then on one visit my doctor came to the conclusion that "Hey,these may becoming addictive"DUUUHHH!!!I then became the guinea pig for all sorts of new up and coming migrain treatment and provention programs/medications.Some with some really horrible side effects.and none with my preffered buzz of codine.Over the years I'd get the occasional fix here or there.From the dentist,from freinds old perscrptions(they knew I had migrains)and so on and so on.But for a while I was savd from myself because you can't take what they won't give you.Then IT HAPPENED.I was suffering through a horrible migrain on day,and my husband went to the drugstore to get me some tylenol.He asked the pharmasist if the was anything better I could be taking.What my poor thoughtful husband returned with TYLENOL #1,8mg CODINE,15mg caffine.CODINE my old friend.I live in Canada and unbenounced to me you can get these over the counter.My son was 8 months old then,He'll now be 8 years old in the spring.I'd taken these pills every day for seven years .There was a period when I was taking as much as 8 pills at a time 5 times a day.I've taken them with alcohol.It boggles my mind how I've never accidentally od'd.Many times I wanted to quite,but I was so scarred of the pain (withdrawl)and I'd been so very good at hidding my addiction I refused to ask for help.I could never let people know that I wasn't the happy together person they all thought I was.I reached a point where I was tired of being in pain everyday.My whole body ached constantly,I was always exhuasted and my memory seemed to have become effected.

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Just wondering if anyone wants to do a CHAT  get together this Friday at 9pm Eastern time?  Just a BS session.  Whatever we want to talk about! Vickie Neena Brighty Tom Dan Dee Hope are you interested?  C'mon!

All we have to do is click on the Chat button.
Let me know what you think!

XO
Kim

[Hope]

Sorry,I've run on so long that I ran out of space.(Almost finnished)About a week before Christmas this year I did it. I said thats it!Enough is enough,your slowly killing yourself,your destroying your own quality of life and your not even giving your family a choice (my husband and son)because they don't even know.I just stopped taking them one day.It was hell.I thought I may be dying,my body and my mind were sreaming at me to take those pills!!!!But I refused.I missed many of the pre-Christmas bashes which suprised many.My poor husband thought I had the flu.But,I made it!!!I spent my first Christmas-New Years codine free.I still have a full bottle of pills sitting in my bathroom cabinet,and at least 2 or 3 times a day they call out to the voice in my head that trys to reason with me "It wouldn't hurt to take just 1 or 2".I almost need to keep them there.I don't know why it just feels like I have to keep a eye on them.I know that must sound very strange but this whole experience is very strange for me.I've never told anyone any of this and it feels good to finally let it go and begin to heal.My body still aches but in a wierd comforting way that lets me Know I'm alive.I feel very strong.I know there are rough times ahead.I know I'll need counciling.I apologize for running on and on this way.I just needed someone to hear me.Mabey I just needed to here myself.Thanks for listening,Hope

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Geesh Hope GREAT post.  I think you are terrific.  I know what you mean about just knowing that they are in the cabinet.  I am that way with my Xanax.  Thank god I do not have a love affair with Xanax.  I have read threads on this site where this drug can be a nightmare for some.  But just knowing that I have Xanax in the cabinet makes me calm.  I can relate to you having the bottle in the cabinet.  I would love to know what you went through as far as withdrawals.  What did you go through and how long did it take?  What were you feeling.  When did you start to feel better.  When did you see that light at the end of the tunnel?  Sorry for the interrogation but I would love to know the answers when you have time.  What courage you have to get yourself through that exorcism! What a wonderful feeling it must be to start the new year drug free! Way to go! If I could I would give you a BIG hug right now.  Now remember when you feel like it Answer some of the above questions when you can.
Take Care and again WAY TO GO!!!!!!
Marcie!

[To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne]

Not only would I love to chat on Friday @ 9pm, I will need it as my med detox starts Friday morning.  Hope, you have done a wonderful thing for yourself and your family.  Now, the harder part - staying sober. I also abused pain medication and alcohol and I don't know how I didn't OD either. A GREAT way to stay sober is to go to an AA or NA meeting.  There are MANY people in AA who abuse(d) alcohol and drugs.  I have tried NA and AA but for some reason, I like AA better.  Some meetings are better than others.  I bet you are saying "No way - what if someone found out?"  No one will find out.  I had the same thoughts - kept getting scared "someone will see me" or "my husband will know"  -  truth is Hope, you have taken the first step already- admitting you were powerless over the alcohol/drug and there are still 11 steps to go (don't get scared).  Remember how you said it "feels so good to talk in here" - well, let me tell you, it feels great to be around people who understand what you are going through.  You don't have to speak, just listen if that's what you want.  I even went into another town to avoid bumping into people I know.  When I finally started going to meetings in my town, I ran into an old supervisor.  An older, sweet woman who I would have NEVER thought had an addiction problem.  I have to say, that all during the meeting, I was mortified and scared that she would see me.  But, guess what?  At the end of the mtg, she came over to me with a big smile on her face, gave me a hug, and said the words I will never forget, "I'm so glad you're here!"  I almost cried on the spot.  I have since become closer to her and she has told me her own story and we support each other.  The only way to work on yourself and get better is to share it with other people - esp other addicts and the best place to do that is a meeting.  Listen, I don't want to tell you to lie to your husband, but maybe you need to do that for now - just say you are going shopping, to the library or something and go to a meeting - it's only one hour! and in the end, it will save you and therefore, save your family!  Remember, we love you and are here for you - Good luck.  Maryanne

PS - you can find AA meeting lists online by typing AA followed by your state into the computer.  Then just go.  Believe me, it will change your life.  I walked into my first one all alone and although I was scared to death and didn't know what to expect - the people there welcomed me and no one will look down on you.

[Chad B]

Well, I can honestly say, "My family gets mad at me"  I am an addict that will take almost any pill I can get my hands on.  My girlfriend says if I don't stop, she's gone.  Why the ultimatums?  Why do people do that?  Do they not understand what addiction means?  I don't think so.  My mom is always saying,    " You need to stop, you're killig yourself!"  I know this...it's easier said then done.  Why do people respond to addiction with such critisicm and beligerance?  Can anybody tell me?

[To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne]

Yes, it's because they don't understand it, they don't walk in our shoes.

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

I am glad you can do Friday!  I am looking forward to it!  It is amazing (seeing your supervisor) because you never know who may have the same problem!

[Hope to Marcie , Maryanne and The Dude]

Fistly,Marcie and Maryanne, Thank you so much for your kind words and suggestions.I've only time for a quick note Marcie,but I'll write back soon to tell you about my days in the dongeon.And yes there is a light at the end.God bless you both.Dear Dude,I'm cetainly no expert,but speaking as a Mother myself,as well as someone whose seen many people destroy there own lives with drugs and alcohol,I can safely say the ultimatums you are recieving are out of love and fear of seeing you destroy yourself.Becuase you probably don't love yourself enough to understand there fear,this makes you angry.They just LOVE YOU.That's all plain and simple.Try to remember that.Don't be too angry with them for that.  Thanks to all!! Hope.

[Shiny]

Hi everyone.  Glad this is an open thread.  My question.  I am currently on Lortab 10m and oxycontin 20m.  I am going in for elective surgery soon, already had my consult.  My surgeon knows all the meds I am on, and just about told me I could have anything I just about wanted for post-op pain.  I want something stronger then Lortab but not the oxy.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  I know my body is used to narcotics and I am told the pain is pretty bad.  Is Vicodin ES stronger? I quess I could ask for Morphine but don't know what strength. Any suggestions?

[To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne]

Well, Jo, sorry to hear you need surgery.  I guess you know there is possibility of addiction taking all these meds.  Once a doctor told me that if you take your medication EXACTLY as prescribed and ONLY when you have pain, then you won't get addicted.  Anyway, now that I've said that, I'll say that:
     Vicodin is 5mg of Hydrocodone with tylenol
     Vicodin ES is 7.5 mg of Hydrocodone with tylenol and
     Lorcet/Lortab is 10mg of Hydrocodone with tylenol
The hydrocodone is what gets you high and the tylenol is what destroys your liver (especially if regular alcohol use is present)  I don't know of a more effective pain reliever than oxycotin or morphine (I think they are the strongest).  Please be careful taking these meds, as you can see, many of us here have become addicted.  My own use/addiction started out after surgery.  I had heard of people abusing pain meds prior to that and often wondered what all the hubhub was about - well, I soon found out.  I also didn't know that there was terrible withdrawal when stopping the meds after taking them regularly.  Didn't know until I tried to stop.  Good luck and I hope everything goes well for you.  Maryanne

PS  Many times people take their meds for pain and overdo it (move around too much) because they can't feel the damage they are doing to the injured area, so be careful of that and that should help you not have to take more than you need.  Please do yourself a favor and flush/throw out the pills AS SOON as your pain is decreased.  Try just plain tylenol as soon as you can.  Believe it or not, that's what they use in the hospital after only a few days post op  -  Good luck!

[vickyvortex to thread]

My husband knew I was an addict when we started dating.  Thanks to his "good hydro management" concept, I have changed from taking my prescription (60 vicodin es's every 2 weeks) in about three days to pretty much following the prescribed dose.  He hates that we are stuck in our midwestern state because i am terrified I will not find another doctor.  My father (73) is also fond of codeine, and told me last night that he asked his doctor for tylenol three.  The doctor said "I don't prescribe narcotics"  What is up with that?  This is a florida doc.  My dad was like, hey, I'm 73 years old and what's the big deal.  Good grief.  Anyway, my husband is patient and understands, and I try not to whine too much when I am going through withdrawal.  Marcie, I would love to chat on Friday.  I s that 9Pm Eastern or Central?

[vickyv to marcie and maryann]

Oops!! Marcie, saw the eastern time, sorry.  I will be there with bells on.  Maryann, I used to go to A.A. and pretend I was an alcoholic because it was so much better than N.A.  I found there was very little sobriety in n.a.  Around here, A.A does not like the mention of drugs.  But I did find a lot of good friends.  I don't go to meetings anymore since I do take vicodin and for another reason I mentioned a while ago. But i do encourage it.

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

We should have a great turn out.  I cant wait. I hope no one forgets!
Marcie

[Brighty to "That Dude"]

I have the idea your mom loves you more than you can fathom and she sees your suffering... and if you're not suffering yet, you will be if this continues. Mary Ann is right... others who do not walk in your shoes do not understand addiction.. .but many of them live with it and they understand that this is not the way life is supposed to be... a person controlled and enslaved who cannot see themselves the way their loved ones see them is often not a pretty person to see. Usually we the family members see mood swings, distraction, abnormal eating and sleeping patterns, weird or secretive behaviors, obsession, and sometimes criminal behaviors such as stealing or script forging, unsavory friends, withdrawn or depressed behaviors, isolation, poor job or school performance, love of the drug over love and respect for people... the list is endless. The biggest thing is that when people who love you see you self destructing they begin to feel helpless and they get desperate..... they don't know how to get you to change.... so they nag and give ultimatums. I do realize that many addicts are functional... but not totally whole.. and the worst case addicts are often suicidal and utterly dysfunctional to the point of bouncing from ER's, mental hospitals, jails and back home to upset and broken families who see the cycle as never ending. Basically, anyone who lives with an active addict has an abnormal life in some degree. I have been there... like worse case scenario edition.... so please try to understand that your girlfriend and mother must see something you don't ... and maybe it's  because you are so involved in your addiction that you are not able to see what they see. By the way, I do not believe anyone should condemn an addict... it is a serious illness... families and friends should fight in a way that the addict knows they are valued and loved but their addiction is what is unwelcome... and as hard as it is to believe at first... there is healing... there is hope...and that means YOU !! There are many paths to healing that are posted here everyday... and when you are ready everyone will be here to help and support you... I'll be happy to also. God bless you. Love, Brighty

[tom to all - see the movie TRAFFIC right]

if anyone wants a snapshot of the obscenity our leaders have called the "war on drugs" and a white hot spotlight on America's refusal to face up to the need for compassionate treatment of our addicted citizens, take two hours out of your day and see this movie.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Friday night is fine.  But, you need to get all of the time zones worked out cuz we are spread from one end to the other.  I miss talking with you.  I've been sortof "binging", like a alcoholic, with Vicoden ES.  I binge for one day then go for days feeling OK, then maybe 4 a day or so.  I am not making excuses, but I am no where near as bad as I was before my detox.  I was taking 3 at a time, randomly.  God, was I sick.  I am terrified of that path.  Right now, my hubby is mad at me for being the "evil stepmom", simply because I asked teenage boys to help with the garbage, the dishes and keeping their rooms halfway clean.  He protects them so much, I'm always the mean one.  One day, I am just going to quit and just let the stuff pile up until they can't stand it...then say, if you want a maid...hire one.  I am a mother of a 2 yr old and a wife and the owner of a german shepherd and a black lab/mix.  I can handle NO MORE.  I give up.  Sorry to ramble.  I can't wait to see my therapist next week, boy will he get an ear full.  I'm still taking the Vics, but responsibly. I know that I need to stop all together.  Can you help?  Just your thoughts and care help.  Neena

[tom with postscript]

do you realize that, sitting here in my bedroom in Southern California at 7PM PST tonight, I can pick up the phone, call in a phony rx to a pharmacy and be under arrest and on my way to county jail within the hour? How long is it going to be before I can get compassionately detoxed with dignity and decency in the privacy of my family physician's office with buprenorphine? I call out for it every day on web sites and bulletinboards and get nothing but empty, well-meaning promises.
But if I want to criminalize myself over my addiction, I can literally get "curb service" to hell from a black and white that will be at my doorstep within seconds.
What a world!
Could anyone have ever concocted such a fiction? Only in reality, man. And reality is what it is and where we are.

But then, I suppose that's just, how does it go? "My disease talking?"

[vickyvortex re: Traffic]

I saw it this weekend...was disapointed.  While I thought it showed some awareness of the "winless" war on drugs as far as mexico is concerned, it really had no other plot.  Yes, Michael Douglas as the new drug czar seemed surprised there was no representitive from the "treatment" segment of the war on drugs, I felt as a movie it could have been much more interesting.  A rich girl getting addicted to drugs and falling into prostitution for it is nothing new, and it wrapped up in a nice, tidy ending with her salvation being a 12 step meeting.  I could have learned more from a segment on Investigative Reports.  The plot with Catherine Zeta Jones was also lame, again, why not show her taking her husband's place, instead of, again, a nice tidy ending. It is after all, entertainment, not an after school special. The only bright spot were the two U.S. cops.  Now that futile war on drugs was the only reality I saw.  Just my opinion.

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

That is all I wanted to say.  Rememeber eastern time.  I will try to do a reminder.  What do you all think about everyone bringing a covered dish?  I will provide a Honey Baked Ham.  I am sure we will need lots of desserst HAHA.  
Have a good evening.
Marcie.

[tom to vickyvortex on TRAFFIC review]

I thought the hopelessness and hypocracy the movie showcased was the beauty of it. I knew a few wives of busted dealers who did what zeta-jones did to prevail and much, much worse. I thought having the drug czar's kid ******* for dope while he made speaches in Washington showed the scope of the problem while dramatizing the reality that drugs now transcend class, culture, race and geography. There are no walls to hide behind anymore. Compassionate treatment and banishment of shame for addicts is our true hope. We have a disease for which there are many medicines. I say give these medicines out freely, intelligently without stigmatizing the sick and welcome the recovered and maintained back into the family of man.

[tom to chatters on friday]

I'll be there 6 PM my time. Might be a few minutes late but look forward to it. I say everyone come with one (concise) statement to make, any topic. Just to kick things off. You can ask how ya doin? just so many times on these chat lines. Someone throw out a provative statement and just go with it. Should be fun. One warning: I'm a terribly slow typer for a professional writer but will do my best to keep up. See ya there!