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First day on Subox
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First day on Subox

Hi everyone, I am helping my son wean off oxy's. This morning at 8:00 this morning he called me and I went right over. (I am holding the Sub) I gave him 1 pill 2mgs and he felt better within a 1/2 hour. He has been with me most of the day and doing fine. It is now 7:00 ish and he is still doing fine.
I am waiting for it to wear off. I am thinking this low dose will wear off sometime tonight .... any ideas?
brief history: He was normally taking 3 80mgs of oxy every other day or every day. Monday was 2 80mgs Tuesday was 2 30mgs and today just 2 mgs of subox.  
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Avatar_f_tn
Thanks for keeping us posted. I hope things go well. You are giving him the greatest gift-well second greatest (1st was the gidt of life-right?)!  Nice work mom!!!!
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Avatar_f_tn
Thanks, I needed that  :)
I have just read the posts from all of you today. Just to set your minds at ease... I am conversing with a doctor. He has not perscribed the subox, but has confirmed my math and doses that I have figured out. I have done and am still doing SO much research on Suboxone so I am as educated as I can be.
I am expecting the withdraw to start again tonight when he cant sleep. He was in early stages of withdraw early this morning. He called me at 2:50am and almost made me have a heart attack. He was not doing well and wanted the subox. I made him wait until 9:30am.
I will do this again tonight, but I do think his dose is really low. I am surprised at how well he is doing. I expect the crash tonight sometime. I will wait again for 24 hours and give him 1/2. this will bring his total back up to 2mgs (due to the half life). What do you think?
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Avatar_f_tn
I have absolutely no experience whatsoever with sub,, so I'm sorry....I quit oxycodone cold turkey.  I just hope the best.  But keep posting and hopfully someone will be along to help!!!!  
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Avatar_m_tn
i trust that a doctor has given you strict instructions for the Suboxone. it works differently than the oxy. it has a life time of like a day and a half. if your son complains of symptoms just hop on here and we'll advice you on things that can help. just make sure to stick to the instructions and stop taking it when it says to. Suboxone can also be addictive- but has helped many quit. you are a terrific mother and soon you will reap what you sow!
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Avatar_f_tn
Thanks, I talked with opiatehead last night. He is starting subox as well. I think he is 3 days into it.
Subox was not my first choice. I know it may sound crazy but I would have preferred for him to taper off the oxy's.
If we can get him through this within 7 days. I "hear" it is not going to be a problem with getting hooked on it. That is our goal. I have a calendar and everything (with the big red X)
OH he will have withdraw. and he is fully aware of that. just hoping to ease it somewhat. I am very nervous for him. He seems determined. Thanks for your post. It means alot
mmjoe
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417564_tn?1287986427
You are a wonderful mother - he is very lucky.  I am also lucky...my mother has always given me that love and support.  You seem to be doing great researching things and providing discipline as well.  Good for you!  I am certain it will all be well worth it to have your son back...that's how my mom feels too.
I feel you are making a wise decision in getting him off the sub quickly...keep posting.  This forum is amazing...as you see.  Best of luck.
I have some natural remedies in my journal that will alleviate some discomfort associated with wd.
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Avatar_f_tn
Thanks broknbck

I have research suboxone quite a bit. I have learned by others that are taking it or took it.
I am extremely concerned about the addiction factor with Subox. Most people I talked to said their doc's put them roughly 8mg's and up to 12mg's  to start. I do know about the half life. but you say "day and a half life" That is one of my questions that I had. What IS the half life? 24 hours or 36 hours?
We are only @ 2mgs today. That is all. Tired but doing fine. Have cuff here at home.
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Avatar_f_tn
Thanks feo, were you on subox?
I am still reading about subox half life. I actually found a site that says 72 hours. I am going to stay with the 36 hours. I cant imagine that he will be okay until tomorrow night. I would like to see him start withdrawing again before he takes 1 mg.
It is really hard to find anyone who understands how this half life thing works. Thank you everyone for helping me out.
Sooo 36 hours from now he will still have half the potency of the Subox in his system...
do I have that right?
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417564_tn?1287986427
No, I am detoxing from methadone...a lot of people go to sub but I am tapering and will take my last dose March 6.  Since we (fiance and I) have been detoxing since August '07...we hope the wd will not be unbearable.  We are on methadone because we became addicted to pain pills..we do not want to swap addictions again.  So I do not have much knowledge about sub other than on here.  Hope things go well.
A strong vitamin program makes a big difference.  Not only does it help him to feel better but it allows the body to begin repairs...so to speak.
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Avatar_f_tn
I wish you and your fiance the best. I dont blame you about the swapping. That is kinda what I feel like we are doing now. I am determined to get him off of it within 7 days. It is really all up to him. Lets see how bad he wants it. I challenge him sometimes. I know he can do it, but I am real nervous inside. I dont tell him my fears. He has been chatting with X addicts and am working on getting him a used computer for his apartment so he can chat in the evenings. It is really a great help to talk to others. I am only addicted to cig's so I am learning alot about the pain that goes along with opiates and withdraw. I would like to see him go CT but I knew that would not happen.

As for the vitamins. I have him on a good multi (herbalife) 2-3 times a day and fish oil as well. We picked up some milk thistle to help his liver eliminate. and another vitamin for his stomach cramps.
When he is almost at the end of his taper, I will start a vitamin that I purchaced called Nue-recover  which has all the dopamine booster vitamins HTP and Triptaphan, L-Glutamine etc. His doct had a look at it and approved. It has been used for patients in rehabs. Pricey but well worth it if it helps him along. Then a follow up vitamin called Neu-becalmd. Helps with anxiety and sleep. I tried it on myself and it worked in 15 minutes.
But that is still a ways off.
Anyway...I am thinking of going with the 36 hours. Maybe 30... We will see how much he can handle.  (cant wait) He is a bugger when he is pissed off....
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306455_tn?1288865671
Hi momojoe. I've been on Sub since Jan. 30th. and am weaning off alot slower than your son will be.  Alot of people have used the Sub. to just get past the withdrawels. What you need to be careful with is that he doesn't suffer so much to where he gets bad cravings and uses. Normally withdrawels are worse on day 2-4, so you may want to give him 3mgs. on day 2 and 3 (2mgs. in Am & 1 mg in afternoon).  
Then drop to 2 1/2 mgs. on day 4,   2 mgs on day 5, 1mg on day 6 & 7.
Just a suggestion.
Good luck and keep us posted on his progress. You can PM me if you have any questions.
Magi
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Avatar_m_tn
Suboxone is a treatment for getting off oxycontin,Not doing both.Are you a dr. or the mother,as it appears to be something a professional should be in charge of.Its against the legal and moral code for a non-professional to administer a controled substance.
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199177_tn?1332183097
i have to say this makes me very nervous ..... sub really needs to be administered by a professional ..... what are you going to do if you run into problems?
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Avatar_f_tn
Thank you so much for posting with me. It is seems hard to find others going the Subox route. Maybe I have just not been here long enough.

How are you doing with your taper? What did you start with? How are you feeling?
I have to find out how to PM (haha)

So I started him on 2mg's
I dont think to spike him up to 3mgs 2 days into would be agood idea...
I was planning on 2mg's tomorow around 3:30
and then again 2mgs 36 hours later.
MY biggest question is about the half life. Does he or does he not still have 1mg in his system after 36 hours?
THAT is my biggest question?
If there is........ then he (in reality) should only get 1mg to bring his level back up to 2mgs
Am I figuring this out right Magi?
Thanks for your help
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Avatar_m_tn
What are you going to do if you OVERDOSE your SON
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306455_tn?1288865671
My first day I took 4 mgs. around 2:00 PM, around 3:00 am I began getting violently ill. They called it precipitated withdrawels (whatever the hell that means). Went up to 8 mgs a day (4 mgs am, 4 mgs pm). I'm now down to 4-5 mgs a day.
As far as the half life, I really don't know how that works. What I do know, is that people do a daily dose. I've never heard of anyone working their doses from the half life factor. So, sorry I can't help you there. I can feel them wearing off and thats why I separate my doses in two, so they carry me thru til the next day without any discomfort or cravings.
Wish I could help you more with the half life thing.
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306455_tn?1288865671
I would certainly prefer that he was doing the Sub under a doctors care. But this is their choice and all I can do is offer any help that I can.
Overdose from Buprenorphine alone is uncommon.... this is quoted from my Suboxone phamplet.
As far as it being illegal.....lol.....we're talking about drug addicts here! 99 % of the stuff we do is ILLEGAL.
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yeah!  I'm so glad that it worked so far.  You got some really good advice from people who know and have been on it.  I am surprised that the 2mg worked, but, hey......even better......I've always heard that less is more with sub. and somtimes the doctors will milk you by giving high doses for the cash........Please keep us posted.  You son is very lucky to have such a wonderful understanding Mom.

God Bless,
Nauty..................
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Avatar_f_tn
okay.. I first I would like to say.... I am speaking with Joe's doctor as I stated earlier.

My son has taken so many drugs and combined so many drugs and OD on heroin 2 years ago.  and had to be brought back to life by paramedics. He has drank while taking methadone... He has done it all. He has come to me for help begging me to help him stop. We have seen a doctor two times and have explained to us how suboxone will be administered. We have been through all of this. Our problem is that his insurance will kick in very soon, but not soon enough. He wants to stop NOW. We are going to a clinic to get the suboxone starting Friday. Every doc that I have talked to and every addict that I have talked to has started on 8-12mgs of subox. EVERY one. He has taken 2mgs. That is it.
I  do not and he does not want to be on this for years.. or even months. We have decided to cut him back to a low low dose because of that reason.
So if you think I am trying to OD my son on 2 mgs of sub when the doc's want to give him 8 - 12 to start with maybe we should all go back to the drawing board and see who is overdosing who?
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306455_tn?1288865671
Some people just like to stir up ..you know what. lol.   I think you're doing a great thing and sound like you're covering all bases. Ignore those people. Let them talk to themselves.
Way to go, you're a good mom
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By the way.... my last message was for johnnykelly and avisg.... as if...... just thought I would make that clear

Thanks everyone else for your support and kind words....
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306455_tn?1288865671
Avis would never try to start trouble. Anything she says comes from her heart because she really cares and is concerned.  Avis is good people.
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I apologize to you then Avis. I am glad that magi made that clear to me.

It seemed as though the neg itive comments came all at once. Sorry for grouping you in with johnnykelly.

Must work for Big Pharma or something...

as you touched on magi, most people here are doing illegal drugs. I have a big problem with the methadone and suboxone treatment facilities. They seem to give you so many drugs to "fix you" that you can nolonger be fixed, unless you take the bull by the horns and do it from common sense and logic.
I did not want my son on Subox. I know the dangers. I will not have a doc put him on a high dose of something that will take months or years to withdraw from.
so I have taken the bull by the horns,
I cant help but feel that it is done for the purpose of keeping the money flowing into the pharmacuticals.
A billion dollars a year is spent on methadone maintenance. Why the hell would they want you to stop.
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306455_tn?1288865671
Yes, I know what you mean.
I'm heading to bed now, so if you have any questions you can PM me. Click on my name and send message. I'll get back to you in AM. You may need to "join" the community so your name changes to blue and you can send and receive messages.
Good luck and hope all goes well tonight with your son. Keep posting,
Magi
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Avatar_f_tn
So I just spoke with my son. He is feeling okay, but extremely tired. He did not sleep well last night and I was up with him on the phone around 2:45 -3:00am

After an emotional night and a full day spent together, talking and running errands, applying for a job for him, stopping for car parts and eating lunch together and taking the dogs to the park I am dog tired myself.

He is resting and watching TV. His girlfriend is with him and she is wonderful.

I dont like to lose my cool. I have calmed down a bit.
but It is a HORRIBLE thing and very heartless for someone to put in BIG BOLD letters

"What are you going to do if you OVERDOSE your SON"

.....and then immediately refer to the illegal aspect of it all.
It was a heartless and not well thought our comment to post.

My heart has been breaking for him for so long that I know that my own life would not go on if something were to happen to him.

Thank you all for your kind words. It helps so much

I am going to bed now.... I am exhausted. Hope everyone has a nice evening and I promise to keep you posted.
momojoe


I
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417564_tn?1287986427
I noticed that myself...I had read all of your posts so were well aware of your speaking with the dr.  You are doing a wonderful job...you just stick to your original plan of low mg - stopped soon...You have really done your homework.  This must be so hard for you - I guess now is much easier than awhile back.
I wholeheartedly agree with you - pharmaceutical comapnies are cashing in on anything they can...often unnecessarily.  Our counselor/clinic advises against detox at all costs.  Why would they do that...I wonder!
Good for you for overseeing this - Everyone would be better off with your common sense approach than swapping addictions for years.
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Hey!  Hope everything is going well.  My boyfriend is going to the doctor tomarrow to get us suboxon.....Im really excited.  How is it working for him?  Does it help with sleep?
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434196_tn?1206389470
I am on suboxone and it saved my life, it has a 36 hour half life. It will usually last 24 hours. He will be able to do it with the help of suboxone. Its also an opiate blocker, so if he trys to get high, he won't even feel it. Good luck, he should also go to meetings
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Avatar_f_tn
I just wanted to tell you that I think its great what you are doing for your son.....I wish I had that type of support from my parents.  Its obvious that you love your son to death.  Dont let anyone tell you that you're wrong for helping your son.  Maybe it would be best for a doctor to be giving the suboxon.....But then again, I think in the end, your love and support is what ultimately will get him through this, And I have a lot of respect for you for being responsible enough to be holding onto it for him and monitoring his dosages....Honestly, dont let anyone tell you what you're doing is wrong, what you're doing is being there for your son, and thats better than any doctor could ever do.  Good luck hun.
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Avatar_f_tn
I am new on here and just reading for information on helping my brother.  

I would just like to say to johnnykelly that if you are going to call somebody uneducated, you may want to use a spell checker or proof read what you write because somebody with that many grammatical errors calling someone else uneducated is like the pot calling the kettle black.

PS.. didn't your mother ever tell you if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.

This is a VERY hard situation to be in (I am just getting into it myself) and having someone saying negative things JUST to be negative is very discouraging and causes pain to someone who already has enough pain and stress in her life.  Just leave her alone.. she's trying to do a good thing in the best way she knows how.
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thanks hun , i was being not  judgemental ,just concerned ......
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Avatar_f_tn
  Mr. Kelly's response was just obnoxious ........he obviously didn't even read the post before making his rude remark.  Please disregard posts like that.  Although, I don't like th Idea of self-medicating......2mg. is nothing.  It sounds as if you are watching him closely and taking good care of him.  Don't even worry about doomaz remarks like that.

Luv,
Nauty.................
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lol.   I love it!
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Avatar_m_tn
First of all I think thats awesome for you to help!! Second people on here are great and will help out !
    I'm so glad this went well for you. A little story for you. I tries suboxone a while back(month a go) and itwas a DISASTER!!!!!!! I wasn't in withdrawl (withdrawal) apparently before i started the suboxone and it put me thru "precipatated withdrawl (withdrawal)" thsi is what the dr's called it!
    I'm so so glad that tis is working for you! What ever he does make him stay with this
he will be better on this than oxy's trust me....i use to take 3-5 80's a day plus percocets!! so I def know where he is coming from!!!
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Avatar_f_tn
just some info you may find helpful...
i have been on sub since may, transitioned from methadone, i was on the max dose of 32 mgs daily for 6 weeks, tapered down to 12 mgs quickly without a problem.
the reason people turn to sub is to bypass withdrawal symptoms, and to also be sure his dose is high enough to do this AND curb any cravings. if his plan to only take it for 7 days, that really isnt long enough for addiction to happen as by the 7th day most of his drug of choice SHOULD have left his system,but possibly not all of it, and i really doubt he will have any withdrawals from the sub at all, MAYBE some chills, if that. but i worry that if his dose isnt high enough it is still possible for him to suffer cravings and relapse while on the sub, and 2 mgs is not enough to stop the effects of an 80mg oxy...
also 7 days is nothing compared to the lifetime battle he has in front of him...getting clean is actually nothing compared to staying clean, i hope you have a plan in place for aftercare, after only 7 days on sub...he will need it urgently. i dont mean to seem harsh, and sorry if i come across that way, its not whats meant...but when the sub is gone in 7 days he will still have all of the issues to deal with that come along with addiction. i really hope you get the results you want from this, i just dont think 7 days is enough for someone with a 3, 80 mg oxycontin a day habit...lets hope i am wrong...also you shouldnt be worrying about half life of sub, it really doesnt serve any purpose in this situation, he wont be building up much of anything for a blood level in 7 days...also like  mentioned previously, 2 mg may not cut it for days ,3,4 and 5....those will be his tough days...12-16 mgs is a typical dose, even for a short term taper, which can be up to 21 days....
i could get into all of the benefits and statistics for longer term maintenance of suboxone, but i wont...but aftercare IS A MUST!!! i cant stress that enough.
i hope his oxycontin addiction was short term and that this works for him....good luck.
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434293_tn?1204326607
subs do have a 24 to 36 hr half live but this donst mean there is still 1 mg left after 36 hrs and jus takin 2 mgs.....i first did subs in rehab 3 years ago comming off of 200 mgs of methadone a day ....they gave me 4 mgs the 1st day and took me 8 days and i was off it was uncomfortable but not as bad as w/d or cold turkey...but 2 mgs every 36 hrs isnt much.....the half life dosnt work the way ur sayin at all....jus dont want ur son to relaps after a painfull detox.....i have been there and done it i am a young man myself i know how it is.....goood luck
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434293_tn?1204326607
yes i agree man goood advice i jus found this page i have been battling opaites fore 6 years  now....but have been on subs for 10 months  this time also took them in rehab abt 2 1/2 3 yrs ago...but after my 8 day detox i was coming off of methadone and xanix but when i stopped subs i had mild withdraws....and i was craving for months...i replapsed abt 6 months after i got out of rehab started another year long battle.....its soooooo hard pain pills are the devil
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Avatar_f_tn
if the sub dose was the correct dose, he would be sleeping just fine...its not the dose of sub that causes addiction , it is the amount of time on it that causes the addiction...
simply detoxing isnt enough for his type of addiction...
as you must know addiction is an incurable disease...there is no cure.
and 7 days isnt long enough for him to learn the tools to combat this everyday for the rest of his life, again...not meant to be harsh, just honest.

the definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.
simply detoxing has not worked for him yet...
again, i hope i am wrong about everything i said.
good luck.
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Avatar_f_tn
Wow guys! thanks for all your help and info and support! I am carefully reading your comments and am really listening to what you are saying. Joe is seeing a phsyco therapist. I am paying out of pocket for now. He will have insurance by April 1. :( seems like an eternity)
I am really worried about the short term plan myself. Where to go after subox. there is nothing but will power and counseling. He asked me yesterday if he could move back in with me soon. Of course I said "of course" some rules will apply...
This is all up to him in the end. If he really wants it he will get it. With one on one couseling and group. I can not force him. I am learning that slowly but surely. Everything and anything that can be done, will be done. Pep talking is my only weapon. He needs to see what the world has to offer. He will be going back to school, but is looking for a job now instead. Cant do both in his condition and I will not encourage the school until he moves back home.
He seems areal motivated which can easily throw me off. I will not be tricked this time. but as I said  before , Utimately it is up to him and he know that.
I have to work in 20 minutes gotta run, But I will be back so I can pm some of you.
I LOVE you guys!
Thank you so much
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P.S.

How do I join the community? I thought I did... why isnt my name 'blue'  :(
is anyone getting the pm's I have sent already?
momojoe
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417564_tn?1287986427
I am not the best navigator around here myself!  I was saying a minute ago that I have never used the pc for anything of this nature but this forum is so supportive I cannot stay away...it helps so much to see everyones kind words.

Did you click the 'join community' link?  Have you set up your profile?  Is a pm in my inbox?  lol.  I forget to check mine.

I hope that your day is going ok.  How is your son this morning?  
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417564_tn?1287986427
I am pleased to see that a particular post was removed, I think that was quiet appropriate seeing as how this sweet lady has enough to worry about.  Clearly mommajo is awesome and has the support, love and admiration of most.

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306867_tn?1299253309
Go into "My Medhelp" at the top of the page and fill out profile info.  I think people can still get your pm's even if you don't fill out a profile. Not sure, but think so.  
How is your son today ?   Your doing a great thing helping him.  Good job Mom !
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Avatar_f_tn
okay client not here yet....I have a few minutes

I have not set up a profile. I will do that today or tonite.
I pm'd a few that pm'd me.
but I have so much to say to all of you! You have been an inspiration to me and I will continue to stay here and be a part of this community. I really want to get to  know you each and feel bad that I have not learned YOUR stories better. My dream to be able to help someone else some day. I would like to say to anyone that has this challenge ahead of them, keep up the good work! You are all wonderful people to be here helping and supporting others. It inspires us to keep going and know that there are others out there. My wish is to get Joe on here. Maybe he can help someone someday get through there tough times. I will suggest it to him today.
I think it would really help him to meet all of you!
My client just called and is on her way. I have 10 minutes haha
Have a GREAT day!!
big hugs!
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306867_tn?1299253309
Thats a great idea to get Joe to come on the forum.  It will make him feel so much better to know he is not alone in this. He will get so much information on addiction here and the more you know the better you will do.  So many great people and we even get silly and have fun sometimes.  
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417564_tn?1287986427
I was going to ask you if he would like this.  As I said, I am not usually one for something of this nature, but now...This has truly been a godsend.  I am so thankful to have come across it.  
I also want to learn more about everyones story...I have read so many, but I just cannot remember.  That is so frustrating...memory loss appears to be somewhat common in detox.  Ugh!
Have a wonderful day...talk with you soon!
Peace and love to you -
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Avatar_f_tn
You're so brave to try again for your son. Been through a lot of what you're talking about. Two things, Suboxone was a wonder drug for me in helping me through a horrfiic w/d. It does fill the opiate receptors fairly long term (24/36 hours they say- depending on the metabolism of the addict), so if the subox dosage is adequate your son does take anything else it's not going to find receptors to bind to so he won't get the high, it'll just wash out of his system without re-starting the w/d clock. Of course, I'd not share this info with him, but it might be helpful for you. Subox side effects are NOTHING in comparison to what he has been taking, and as you've read here short term use can be the difference between moving towards life and a junkie's death. It was for me. He can also go back to is short term if he hits cravings or hard times of needing to use- as a safety net. Talk to your doctors more when you can. The other thing is subox doesn't help the horrible insomnia that is such a curse for w/d. Life without enough sleep is too hard for people not going through detox. Trazadone is an old anti-depressant that is totally non-addictive and often used for insomnia related to opiate detox. Again, it helped me. Best to you both!!!
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and thanks for your posts. I have started a new thread under "Day TWO on Subox"
You will learn that our plan was off a little....
I will continue to keep you all posted and thanks again SO MUCH for your kind words and encouragment.
it is late here and I need to hit the hay
Hope to catch up with each of you to respond to your questions... I do not believe I will be able to keep my eyes open much longer... Tomorrow is another day
Hug to everyone!
momojoe
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199177_tn?1332183097
Methadone is a dangerous drug that needs to be monitored by a doctor as does sub ..... not bought off the street and taken of a home detox program ...... are you aware how many have died from mixing a dose of methadone with the wrong med ........... take Danial Smith he took one methadone pill he didnt realize it would interact with the antidepressants he was on and die....... you don't know what others are taking ,i am glad nothing happened to you ..... but someone else might not be that lucky
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calling people morons is degrading and will be reported .
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199177_tn?1332183097
yes that is what is said

Methadone is a dangerous drug that needs to be monitored by a doctor as does sub
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Avatar_f_tn
i am not sure what is going on here in the discussion. We are not using methadone.
I have updated my thread to "
Day TWO on Subox"

Progress is good.
Will start a new thread Day THREE
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momojo...really hun, there has been alot of BS going on here on the sidelines, and i am sorry this had to happen in your thread...but it happens at times, please dont let ones anger and bitterness deter you from what you are doing, it had not a thing to do with you...ok? dont worry...your doing fine...stay strong!!! and when you need a chat, you know where to find me...best of luck to you...



but i do have to say to someone...not addicted to the pills, just maybe chemically dependant!!!???  did YOU read the post...heroin was involved at one point...LOL!  
do not even go there, obviously you dont have a clue what the difference is...there is NO such thing as being chemically dependant to heroin!!!   too much to learn to be handing out advice...geez...
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