For people experienced in opiate withdrawals

So I had a heavy opiate addiction for eight months.  The last 3 of those was 3 days of use and 4 days of withdrawals, rinse, repeat.  Eventually I reached the conclusion I couldn't stop on my own because I kept subjecting myself to that hell knowing what would happen.  I went to rehab for 3 months. (the longest i made it on my own was like a week, popped 6 LTs, drank 16 shots of gin and did about 50 mgs of valium and ended up in the hospital.  Then whisked off to rehab.  They pumped my stomach full of charcoal so that may have masked the loose stool symptoms, which tends to be my worst symptom in withdrawal.  I rarely get restless legs but about 2 weeks ago i had trouble sleeping for 3 or 4 days but woke up not tired, just listless and dejected)  So, that was my most recent withdrawal.  Then my *******  Anyway, I'm withdrawing now, probably almost done, but here is my main question;

Would taking a small dose of suboxone (1-2mg) to alleviate the symptoms of withdrawal only extend the symptoms?

A couple months ago i took 2 mgs of suboxone every other day for 2, maybe 3 weeks, then went camping for a week. (no drugs).  Didn't experience withdrawal.  It's just really confusing to me that sometimes I can use suboxone to have a painless detox, and sometimes, I don't.  This last withdrawal is happening after a week and a day of being sober, doing 20 mgs of hydro one day, doing 25 the next day, doing 30 mgs of oxycodone the next day, being sober the day after that, doing 1 mg of suboxone the next day, 1 mg the next day, 3mgs the next day, 2mgs the next day, and now im on day 4 of doing nothing.   I could just tough it out but I'm curious.  You know, cause crapping your pants constantly *****.  And not sleeping.

[me1991]

hey there.......

YOU CAN DO THIS. If you can, try to do it WITHOUT ANY DRUGS. If not, take it a day at a time.  I have been through the withdrawls of opiates numerous times. I have been takig hydros for almost 10 years off and on for 4 herniated discs in my back.  I am on 5/500 3X's a day.  The WD's suck but once you get past the 3 day hump you can get through practically anything. The last thing to overcome now is the mind trip.

Drink lots and lots of water. Try to take vitamins if you can (B12 helps the tiredness)
Mary Jane does wonders for all of these symptoms.  It is much better than the opiates (in my opinion)

ONE DAY AT A TIME....you will make it...promise

[GA Guy]

My friend, you're on a merry-go-round that's going to kill you well before you get off if you don't stop the ride soon. Instead of looking for the next best pill to take, you need to give your body some CLEAN time to heal itself. Are you continually just running out of drugs and going through withdrawals? Or are you truly READY to quit?

[mr.lucky66]

taking sub would extend your misery. You say you are a heavy opiate user but I wouldn't say most of the people here aren't really heavy opiate users if they are hooked on vicodin. They may be hooked but not like the people who you see in cities. all stooped over nodding from street dope. Most people here are fixated on withdrawl (withdrawal) and are looking for a drug solution to their drug addiction. We must remember the detox is only the first step in recovery. The most important thing is when you are done your withdrawel not to take more dope again instead of worrying what drugs can eliviate your symptoms.

[123456m]

The sad truth is most addicts never stop using drugs period! What they do is use their drug of choice for as long as they can until its not working anymore for them.
They quit for a while clean out for a month or 2 and then go back for maybe 6 or 7 months and do the same all over again then the drug of choice may change on them so they pick up a new one and do the same. Get clean they use again.
Why simply because in a true addicts mind he never feels really normal unless he alters his brain chemistry to a point where they feel happy inside from a drug and has never experience this level without a drug.

So many folks here whine about the WDs  OMG if you only have a clue here the wds no matter how hard they are tend to be a cake walk to what is ahead in a few months of not using and feeling depressed, unhappy and no joy, going from one AD to another finding no realy hope that is not a way to live IMO. Life to me is joyful and happy when you can really let go Not hold on but that is what most addicts do they hold on. Sorry to sound negative but this is the naked truth of a addicts l ife. Most folks that comment here and on this board for a long time have had relapses more times than they can even remember and why simply because of what I mentioned above. Is it hopeless at times yes it is and at other time there is hope that is all it is going from hopeless to hope that keeps us alive.
Peace

[drugshavetakenover]

ga-guy, sorry I don't have your will power.  My own demise isn't a sufficient deterrent to quit.  The only thing that motivates me is I want to be normal and not controlled by an inanimate object.  I dislike missing work/school/destroying relationships because I'm trying to stop taking drugs, hence the question of how to get rid of the symptoms WITHOUT perpetuating them.  Just because I find it so insulting, no, all my withdrawals were self-imposed while having plenty of access to drugs.  Just because I relapse a lot doesn't mean I'm not serious.  Maybe its the fact I did opiates for 8 years with full control over it (stopping when needed, never over-doing it, never doing it so frequently i actually withdrew) and I think somehow I can return to that.

Me1991, thanks for the words of support.  My girlfriend says the same thing and it gives me hope.  I've been surrounded by addicts for so long its nice to hear people say just tough it out.

Mr. Lucky-No, I don't need a drug solution.  I tried researching this question and all I ever come across is "take suboxone for a year then taper off" or something like that.  Even then there is mention of mild withdrawal from it.  I was just looking for a one day thing, during the worst of my symptoms, so I could feel normal and not experience further negative effects the day after.  This really is probably the last day I'll be having the debilitating effects of withdrawal.  The "depression" or "dysphoria" I imagine will last months.

Regardless, you all helped me.  You've convinced me its not worth it.  So I popped some Immodium, valium (i have a Rx, dont worry), and I'm gonna smoke some grass (i dont have a Rx so i guess that makes me a bad guy).  A one day solution that won't screw me in the long run.  Thanks again, seriously.  I guess AA meetings come next, eh?  Ya'll take care.

[drugshavetakenover]

you do sound like a pessimist.  I'd advise not trying to help people because you'd probably just make them kill themselves.  No offense.

All I can say is being an addict is the best and worst thing to happen to me.  You can translate that however you want.  

[123456m]

Sorry you took it that way. I am a realist and been around and in this for more years to count. Your young and that is the best time to stop.
Most will not kill themselves so do not worry but with a addict a real addict when you reach your quota then and only then will you truly understand what I wrote here. BTW Valium and Grass is not a good mix but good luck in your search quit while you still can
Peace

[whitie]

most of the people I know relapse because they cant stand the WD's. of the ones that I know that have managed to stay clean for longer periods, they have managed to stay clean the rest of their lives. not saying I never heard of anyone relapsing over time.

I know several that have cleaned themselves up from bad coke habits,various pill problems and drinking problems, that  have stayed that way for many years(some over 15 years clean) counting.


everyone is different, I have gone CT many,many times and chose to try it again thinking I would be able to control it better the next time, I just could not do it.  now I am determined not to do them no more at all...............I guess I will have to see if I can do it like my friends and others I know of have, only time will tell..........

[drugshavetakenover]

no, you're right.  Some of the brightest, most interesting people Ive ever met have been in rehab and now they're dead.  Addiction will kill a lot.  

Not that it means much but I my interests lie in the area of chemistry so i do a lot of research on drugs.  I've never heard of grass and valium not being a good mix but i do have a tolerance to the valium.  Obviously the grass is getting phased out and eventually the valium.  I do see it for what it is, cross addiction, but that is a whole other issue.

Thanks.  Sorry for misinterpreting you.

[123456m]

Please let me clear a bit of that post up. I did not mean to say its impossible.
So much deoends on how old you are, how much you have used and what level of feel normal to good you will accept in your life. Some can stay clean for a very long time if the factors of age and use are not that long. its all about brain chemistry a real addict is born that way long before any addicting drug is taken.
If caught early enough your natural endorphins will kick back in and with good aftercare you have a good chance of staying clean. However if you have used up your quota which is differnt for everyone those endorphins can become so plugged up that it can take years to unplugged them and wake them up to feel good again and most addicts will simply not wait that long.
I wish you only the best
Peace

[123456m]

Not a problem at all. Hopefully the grass you have is good do not smoke Mexican weed please. Just good hydro  grown that is clean.
Best to you
Peace

[mr.lucky66]

Do not smoke any weed. This is the substance abuse board and I don't imagine any of the people who started this want opiate addicts to continue to smoke week after detox. I did this in the 70's and was adament about it being ok and a little drinking too but after a year I went back to dope. Marijuana is  a gateway drug and is not hamless, especially to your lungs. all the best

[Suboxer]

The Suboxone is much stronger than 30mg of oxycodone. It is equivalent to a dose of 60mg of oxy that lasts for 24 hours instead of 4.

You have a VERY MINOR habit that is VERY EASY to quit with NO MEDICAL ADJUNCTS - not even the Thomas Recipe. I used suboxone to detox off of 1000mg of oxycodone equivalent DAILY. Don't smoke weed - weed is THE WORST drug for your mind and mental health of anything out there besides mushrooms and LSD - even worse than the opiates. Much worse.

Do not use Suboxone. Quit and take some ibuprofen for the muscle aches.

You're not having puking, restless legs, diarrhea 24/7 - you are barely physically addicted. Us hardcore addicts can't sit still, with extreme panic attacks, sick out of both ends with an EXTREME high blood pressure and pulse over 150 for five or six days on end if we detox.

You have it easy. I have quit habits of 75-90mg of oxycodone daily, PO, cold turkey with no problem other than minor discomfort for three-four days several times. Gut up and do it. You're psychologically addicted, with just the slightest TINT of physical addiction. Go to a psychologist or counsellor.

Again: you don't need rehab. You don't need medications. You DEFINITELY don't need suboxone (which will get you high as a kite at this point). All you need is the insight and self-respect to realize you barely have a habit at all.. one of the smallest I've ever heard someone claim they were 'addicted' from. You are 'addicted'... you may or may not be 'dependent', and if you are, it is in the most minor, manageable, and slight way I have ever heard of. DON'T SMOKE CANNABIS.

[peaceinknowing]

I agree with what a lot of people here are telling you, which is you can do this without the assistance of any other medications -- ESPECIALLY Suboxone. I'm now 14 days sober from a long addiction and dependancy to Percocets, and I did my entire detox and withdrawl (withdrawal) without the assistance of anything, other than water, gatorade, hot showers, bananas, food [very little at times, though] and most importantly... This forum and my husband.

Please keep posting and let us know how everything is going for you. We are ALL always here to help in and with anything you might need.

[mothertrucker]

hi,what is LT? im sorry if this is a stupid question...

[me1991]

Do what is best for you.... there are people here that say "dont smoke weed" its a gateway..... seriously, that is a very stupid comment BUT everyone is different.
you are in your prayers and go and hug your girl right now... she is there for you in your time of need and you cant ask for better than that

one day at a time.. it will get better

[mr.lucky66]

Don't smoke weed is a stupid statement here on the "substance abuse" board? Is it ok to stop some drugs and continue with others? It's statements like yours that pollute this board. This board was intended for recovery ,not for just quiting vicodin or dope and smoking weed. I used to think like you and found out the hard way that weed, tabacoo and narcotics are all connected in your brain . Weed is also lincked to mental illness and is very bad for your lungs and can cause lung cancer. I hope if you clear up a little you will realize this.

[Gmoney16]

I surrendered to other addictions in 83 and found peace, had some injuries in 87 and was PRESCRIBED hydros in 87 and have been off to the races since then.  Dosages have steadily increased until they are now 10/325 and 180 a month which last about 8 to 10 days.  Naturally I tell myself I need them because of the pain, I have had quite a number of knee surgeries and have withdrawn many, many times between scripts and schemed, many, many docs also.  Travel overseas for projects and have been prescribed Ambien for the jet lag and have been combining the two, script for them is 30 which last 5 days.  Needless to say the spouse has found me comatose a couple of times and confronted me 6 days ago and naturally I defended myself as she told me I was addicted and I told her I was simply dependent.  Really made me look at myself and the number of times I have helped myself to the medicine cabinets of friends and family members, the guilt and shame that brings about.  The number of times I have gone back to the doctor and made up some lie about how customs at some foreign country consficated the meds and how I needed another script.  The point I am trying to make is, if you are done, you are done and as for myself I am willing to go to any length to end the madness, sure it is painful but each day it gets better.  The longest I have gone in 12 years is 10 days so I have never given it a chance so I really don't know what it holds.  I hope you will give it a chance.

[123456m]

You sound like you converted to being a Morman no coffe tea etc?
Yes we all know that everything is connected to your our brains if not you would be dead. Smoking a little weed not all the time does much much less damage to you than having even 1 drink a day. Do your research on Booze vs weed.
I do agree with you if your point is a person that smokes weed all the time every day and is high 24-7. Booze kills brain cells period pot may numb them for a bit, booze cause liver disease, kidney faliure etc etc weed does not.
Yes your correct this board is about recovery and for some folks here it helps to have a glass of wine while they are coming off opiates and for some a bit of weed.You would help more not being a puriest but a realist here.
Your cards were on the table when you called pot a gateway drug.
Peace

[mr.lucky66]

I am a realist and this is a recovery board. I drink coffee and am not a morman thankfully. . I think that some people can have a drink but that's different than weed. Weed is all about getting high and 1 drink isn't. You logic doesn't fly at all especially here. 1 Drink is way different than smoking weed and is also illegal. I drink may have health befifits weed has no health benifits except for those who need it medically and that's a different story. It would be interesting to know what the people who monitor or run these boards think and I suspect I know.

[123456m]

These post will probably be deleted but that would be sad because you really no next to nothing about this. Many folks that get off opiates will take just one hit not to get high but to take the edge offf its the same with a drink why do you think drinking is ok. Just drink soda water them . Your logic makes no sense to me.
Both one hit or a drink will do the same thing.
I will not continue to post with this with you it is very clear you are from a place long long ago.
Peace

[me1991]

yes, we are at a substance abuse board and yes, your points are valid but did you even read what the guy was saying?  The man has a LOT of addictions and relapse issues.  Weed would be the least of his worries. Gosh, thank you for straightening me up.  Without your *** comments i would have never realized how much of a loser i am for occasionally smoking weed.  Just trying to help the guy out.

Peace and love is what you need............

[me1991]

I am so glad that there is someone who thinks realistically....thanks buddy

[123456m]

no problem I mean no disrespect to Mr. Lucky and happy he found something that seems to work for him. But he paints with a very broad brush which is simply not being real. A lot of folks are like this when it comes to religion its my way or you will burn in hell.
Peace and love is spot on.

[mr.lucky66]

You 2 are very adamant in defending your choice to smoke marijuana so I assume that it's very important for you. You are both in la la land and just want to have your cake and eat it two. I used to be like that also. I would defend my right and insist that pot wouldn't take me back to heroin but it did by way of  drinking and pills after many months of just pot, I slowly went back.

  In most cases opiate addicts can't successfully smoke pot but there are always exceptions. Tabacco , booze pot and hard narcotics are all addictive substances and there is a larger chance of an opiate addict relapsing if he drinks or smokes pot. Recent studies also indicate that alcoholics who smoke have more of a chance of going back to drinking than non smokers. It's all connected.

[peaceinknowing]

If we can all come together to arguem disagree and fight on what opinions and views we share dealing with addiction, why can we not come together as one to just listen to one another's views and opinions that could just quite possibly end up saving someone's life when it comes to this journey we all call recovery?

I respect everyone's opinions here on the board, and I'm praying that each and every one of you view my post here as nothing less than friendly advice from one adult to the next. I hope everyone is doing well, and finds this posting/response in good faith.

I love you all, and please keep posting, as it does help!

[me1991]

thanks for your input. not everyone is like you. as long as everyone gets the point that no one is the same....everyone is different
have a great day... i will in LA LA land

[me1991]

FYI- i quit drinking 1 year ago...and i smoke weed... and i havent gone back.... oh yeah and i quit smoking cigs....90 days without.. and i havent gone back... yeah, the weed is a very bad influence. yes it is a drug.. only harmful if you let it...

just wanted to put my thoguhts in ...

[mr.lucky66]

to me the most important thing isn't who is right or wrong or is more clever, it's about being free from dope. The original poster here stated that (he she) wanted to know if sub would help with the end of WD's and she got some pretty good advise. That's the name of the game, helping someone become free from the ball and chain of drugs.

[123456m]

I have not smoke pot in years do not miss it but down here I cannot get the kind I like if I could I would smoke now and then. Its so far down my list of things that are important. Not sue about alcoholics never been one but been to AA meetings before and 90% smoke after the meeting but to link this to a relaspe is agin your painting with a very broad brush. Studies mean next to nothing I can make stats say anything you want it all depends who is driving the stats.
Also having a attitude that does not give any play as yours is a addiction.
Anything that you stand on so firm and cannot do without it is a addiction.
Everyone is differnt and what works is what works , telling folks how to get clean and stay clean off hard drugs without choices that you may not agree is something you may wish to look at.
Peace

[peaceinknowing]

I don't feel as though I came onto this thread of posts with the mindset that I was going to type away and inform people that the way I ventured through my road of recovery is the way in which everyone should do so as well. I was only stating how I wished that people here would get along, because if we can come together to disagree then we can certainly be adults and come together to hear one another out. That's all, but your inpout was greatly appreciated.

[peaceinknowing]

I think you have a lot of great points, and I pray that you continue to post here. I've read a lot of what you've had to say in the forums here, and I couldn't agree with you more on a lot of things you've said. I hope you keep up the positive attitude and continue to assist people with what they're going through. I truly feel as though you're someone in whom people could learn a thing or two from.

My heart goes out to you once again, and much love to you tonight!

[123456m]

Sorry but my last post was for Mr. Lucky not you and I do appreciate very much your attitude of being open.
Peace

[123456m]

"to me the most important thing isn't who is right or wrong or is more clever, it's about being free from dope"

Agreed just watch what you call dope its usch a vague word

Peace

[tommm70]

You are dead on. It is good to see someone who truly understands this disease. Thats not saying others don't. You are just matching these stupid posts defending the use of smoking pot.
123456. Sobriety for an addict is being SOBER.  Ya, Im being a smart ***, you know this, blah blah. That means, free of all mind altering substances,. The benefits/dangers of pot smoking is not the debate in this forum. I for one am for legalizing it. Its a losing battle, why not tax it. I would never use it. I don't want the addicted part of my brain to wake up and want more.

But that's not the issue here. IF you want to use drugs, go use em, but don't come on a recovery board and try and defend one substance as being harmless.

Lucky, You also made a point early on about people being fixated with withdrawal and getting past just that. You are so right, THAT is just the beginning. This is a life long struggle that is just not to be taken lightly.

[123456m]

One size does not fit all. And yes your being a smart *** which is fine with me.
I certainly agree and posted many times that many folks here whine about the wds and that part is a cakewalk for a real addict and then the real work begins. But how one stays clean from hard drugs is a differnt story for everyone.
Peace

[peaceinknowing]

Excellent post about the WD and having the real work cut out for you as soon as those are over with. I have to admit that this is my biggest "ordeal" as of right now in staying clean now that I am over the WDs, which by the way, weren't as bad as what some people here told me they would be. Once again, everyone is different in what happens with them and what they go through OR what they choose to do in order to play down their WD symptoms. I went through WD and detox at my apartment alone without any assistance from my PCP or any other medications. I think a lot of the "scare" for me with the WD was hearing stories and reading other members' posts here about what they went through during their detox. I'm so grateful and thankful that mine were not as bad as what they unfortunately had to go through, but I'm sure that there were others who went through smaller amounts of WD symptoms than I did as well.

[mr.lucky66]

Now we have 2 for and 2 against pot for recovering addicts on this post. I think most clear thinking addicts in recovery would agree with us but if you don't mr. 12345 that's ok. By the way pot is dope and has been called that for a long time but the strict  old time term for heroin is dope. In my book pot is a drug and dope and has no place in the life of an ex junkie which I am. all the best

[drugshavetakenover]

Ok, here's the update.  I took some Immodium which i found out is actually an opiod (but its never affected me badly when taking it during withdrawals)  I still haven't taken anything but the day i woke up after that, i was puking up everything i put down my stomach.  And not just my body puking it up, I had to make myself throw up just to feel better.  its day 2 of that.  Throwing up has NEVER been a symptom of my withdrawals and now im on day....uh....6 i guess.  Shoulda been over 2 days ago following my pattern but now im as sick as ive ever been.  Still not taking dope though.

Oh, and the pot is for the nausea, the valium is to sleep.  No need to continue them when im done withdrawing.  Im actually an experienced addict, just a chronic relapser.  

So far hot baths is the only thing making me feel better considering i haven't been able to hold down solid food for two days....and liquids for only one.

[peaceinknowing]

I tried marijuana all of one time when I was younger and it did nothing for me other than it made paranoid and almost gave me a heart attack because I was so panicy after I smoked it with some friends. This is the only reason why I disagree with someone resorting to pot to take care of the WD symptoms they're afraid of going through when coming off of medications, etc. I'm weird, go on and say it... HAHA!

[mr.lucky66]

drugshavetakenover, It sounds like your are getting through it and I hope you get to the end soon. That feels good to be done with it but be on your guard not to trick yourself into taking dope (just once as we all say), and getting hooked again when you feel better which will undo all the good hard work you've done.

[123456m]

Well if your a experience drug users then you need to know your addict mind.
If not we will see you posting here forever as many do after they relaspe again and again or you end up dead. You can close with 50mg of Valium and 16 shots of Gin. That should tell you something about what your future will be unless you start a differnt path. You have more than just a addiction and whatever it is you need to face it and deal with it ot it will just deal you.
Peace

[jossysmom]

wow....that was encouraging!

[me1991]

my apologizes for yesterday sir.... i tend to forget that everyone has their own opinions.

good luck with your sobriety

[drugshavetakenover]

Well, im at the point where any type of abuse interferes with my normal life, and i no longer like that.  I also want normal relationships, i want to have pride in what i do, i want to be selfless, i want to charitable, kind, etc.

I want to grow up.  Addiction keeps me from all that.  The year of sobriety I had was the best year of my life and I want it back.  

Thanks everyone.  

[123456m]

Great attitude that is what it takes but please never take 16 shots with that much Valium that is what really concerned me. I wish you all the best and your young so this is the very best time for you to become sober and free.
Peace

[dominosarah]

I have read this thread from top to bottom and i have to tell you all it is just simply insane....I am a 30 plus years veteran to the drug world and no i dont have all the answers but i do have an opinion....I cleaned up back in April of 2008, went CT off my DOC and sucked up the WD's.  I realize they are rough and you feel awful and that but what do you expect??  You have been fueling your bodies with drugs.  The WD is the easy part.....staying clean is the hard part.  It takes strength and determination to fight this.....aftercare is necessary.  You have to find out what drove you to keep using.  Not always fun to take a look at yourself and see and own your faults and decisions.  It is vital to do this and in the process you learn the tools to keep you clean.  Turning to some other mind altering chemical isnt going to cut it.  All you are doing is playing with fire and you will get burnt.  I know many come on here and say smoking dope(weed) will help......that is just taking the easy way out again...you need to feel the burn. If there was an easy way out of all of this dont you think someone would share that??  So you feel like cr@p and you are tired for awhile??   The other option is death....and it will happen.  A drug addiction will take you down and it will kill you.........Say what you want to me or about me......but i am 100% clean today........We all have the power and the strength to clean up and have a healthy recovery.....for those that are struggling, dig deep inside yourself and come out fighting......all the best           sara

[Suboxer]

1 Drink is not equivalent to weed. 1) you can drink without getting drunk. You cannot smoke without getting high. 2) Weed is horrible for your mental health - as a recovering heroin addict, I can assure you 100% weed set me down that path - not as a gateway drug per se, but, using opiates to try and medicate the irreversible damage weed caused my mind, which was only bad at first - after I was dosed, without my knowledge, with some amount of LSD, I went through the roof to the point I needed, and continue to need, constant professional help

. Weed is causally linked to schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder, as well as unipolar depression, as well as an 'amotivational syndrome' - (anyone who knows a heavy smoker can attest to this). In short: weed is worse than alcohol, but not as bad for your liver. It's worse for the lungs, and for the mind. No one ever went crazy off of one drink. EVERY long-term potsmoker has gone crazy at least once off of weed - and many continue to smoke. Some, like me, got to the point where we went crazy every time we smoked or smoke. Universally, people who sell enough weed in order to sit and smoke all day do NOTHING else. Weed is as addictive as every other drug, psychologically, and the only two drugs that are worse for your mind are LSD and mushrooms. I believe it could be argued heroin is a less dangerous drug than LSD.

Furthermore: people who smoke weed tend to defend it like it was their mother. At the very least: "it's harmless, it's better than alcohol," if not, "it's good for you, it opens your mind, it makes you creative," etc. etc. Weed addicts do not believe they are addicts... they believe they are creative revolutionaries opening their mind to the evils of 'the System', etc. - Weed smoking is almost like a cult. You will not find an addict to any other drug who claims the drug's benefits and extols and preaches them like a weed addict - they will generally admit to themselves, at least, that they are a junkie.

[Suboxer]

Edit above: where I said, "I believe it could be argued heroin is a less dangerous drug than LSD," I meant to say:

"I believe it could be argued that heroin is a less dangerous drug than WEED."

[123456m]

""EVERY long-term potsmoker has gone crazy at least once off of weed - and many continue to smoke"
"I believe it could be argued that heroin is a less dangerous drug than WEED."

LOL well that tells me more than I need to know about your opinion OMG.
Happy your clean and the laugh
Peace

[Suboxer]

I phrased that poorly. By 'going crazy,' I mean every potsmoker has become very paranoid and panicky at least once, and most, many times, while smoking pot - and yet they continue to smoke. If you took an antibiotic and became paranoid and freaked out, you would quit it.

2) refer to the last paragraph of my long post for the reasons why weed is more dangerous to the psyche and society than heroin, + the fact that people who smoke it are amotivated to do anything else, to a degree not found with any other drug other than heavy LSD, E, and mushroom users... but there are not many heavy users of the 'heavy' psychedelics. There are many heavy weed smokers - people who think it is harmless.

Give an experienced weed smoker, while they are high, a shot of heroin. They cannot feel it. They will not feel it. Because weed is THAT MUCH MORE POTENT IN IT'S EFFECTS ON THE PSYCHE, as to DROWN EVERY OTHER DRUG OUT. A pot smoker would think this was the result of some 'extra potent dro super skunky kind bud chronic.' Every other drug, besides LSD, mushrooms, and E are much weaker than weed in psychological effects. WEED is one of the strongest drugs there is, and very dangerous to mental health for long term smokers (with mental illness rates approaching 80% according to one [NIDA, so.. it likely is a little flawed]) study, for daily pot smokers).

Cocaine and heroin, if legalized, are both less harmful to society than legal weed, along with being orders of magnitude less harmful to the psyche of each individual user.

[worried878]

long post..lots of response...sounds like u r trying very hard to alleviate wd symptoms...and perhaps concentrating on the harder part of "staying clean" would behoove u....sub does help wd symptoms for most/ but it cant make u clean...only u can and it takes alot of work...good luck to u..hang tight...and aftercare rox!

[Gmoney16]

You are simply going to have to be honest with yourself.  Like I said in 83 I ended up in a hospital addicted to alcohol, speed, cocaine, and what was commonly known as downers at the time as "downers" or "713's" quaaludes. yes I am a child of the 60's and 70's and once I did end up there had some really great years without drugs or alcohol.  Honestly never thought I would become addicted to these Lortabs but hey, surely did and came to this forum to find out just how long does this withdrawal last?  The pain part and constantly going to the bathroom is over and it is day 9, now if I can just get my energy back, I'm good to go.  Knees are still gone and going to have to be replaced and I am not looking forward to being honest with the docs who have tried to help me but that is part of the deal too.  Honesty with myself, honesty with the people I have schemed to feed this addiction, and becoming willing to accept the consequences, everything else is bull.  It is either that or go back to it, or something else to run from it.  As for me, I'm like you I'm tired of it bro, too hard, too peaceful the other side.  I wish you well.  Oh by the way I smoked my first joint probably in 67 and continued to smoke it until 83, what I found for me was it robbed me of my ability to completely relate to this universe with all of the senses I was born with, just like everything else.  It may sound weird but a friend suggested I try acupuncture this time around.  I reasoned that something which has been on earth for 5,000 years might be worth finding out about and it has helped me.  Please remember, these are only my opinions and we all have our paths to travel, I hope yours is good.  

[tommm70]

I do believe weed is less dangerous than alcohol, and I don't smoke it anymore.
Like anything else, if you do to much of it, it will harm you.
I believe there are plenty of non addicts out there who enjoy the occasional high at a party. I see nothing wrong with that.

I do agree with all of the health risks you listed. But alcohol and cigarettes have a list as long or longer.
Law enforcement is in a losing battle for a substance that because it is illegal is worth more than gold. If you legalize, tax, and regulate it, the drug dealers would be out of business.
I dunno, its a difficult subject. CNN is having another special on marajuana legalization tonight at 10PM est. Gonna check it out.

[mr.lucky66]

Plenty of people die from pot. A friend of mine never smoked a ciggarette in his life and was a heavy pot smoker died recently from lung cancer and the specialist believes it was from smoking pot which is 5 times worse for your lungs that tabacco, and that's just a start.  Weed isn't the fun harmless drug we used to think it was and that should be enough about weed on this post.

[dominosarah]

agreed!!          sara

[worried878]

k...i do beleive//for sake of expressing my opinion...that pot smoking could possibly cause lung cancer...and i do not smoke pot anymore..heavy smoker 20 yrs ago...no more...i will state a fact that i discovered and feel to be true for me...alcohol has gotten me into way more trouble that a joint ever did in my life...but that is me and we r all different...and we all have opinions...no substance is a good substance to use if a person is an addict...but if i had to choose based on the trouble the substance may cause me...i would choose pot

[123456m]

OMG wher do you get this from? There is no link from pot to lung cancer. Nicotine possibly actually its more of all the addictives they put in Tabacco that does it but that is another story.
Check out real info like the Rasta folks in Jamica that smoke daily all ther lives yet have a very low lung cancer rate.I really believe cancer of all kinds is linked to certain genes that is why some people smoke Tabacco for 80 years and do not die of cancer. The point of all this is simply not to confused the issue I never saids in any of my posts that smoking pot all day long for you life is a good thing at all. But I will tell you a person that puts down a bottle or 2 of hard booze every day will be way worst off than a daily smoker and will die. enough said do your research if smoking pot cause cancer you really think they would make it legal for medical use. Have you ever heard a doctor tell his patients to go out  and somoke some Tobacco for their health!
Peace

[mr.lucky66]

I asked a few docs and they are sure that heavy pot smoking can cause lung cancer. I believe it can and does and it's not the fun harmless drug we used to think it was . We are hyjacking this guys thread with this . Maybe we should start another

[123456m]

You are correct sir.Interesting debate though.
Peace

[me1991]

looks like there are more pro weed than against
LEGALIZE MARY JANE

[Suboxer]

Yeah, and look at how old you are (judging by your handle).

Every teenage kid who smokes defends it like it was their mother and thinks it makes him different, a free-thinking, open-minded "philosopher" swimming against the tide of all the "tools" and "sheep" who don't smoke. I know - BECAUSE I USED TO BE THERE, IN YOUR SHOES.

What gets me, is how addicts to heroin, etc. view it like a monkey on their back. Addicts to weed, MDMA, psychotomimetics, view it like a faithful friend watching out for them, standing by their side.

Keep in mind that it's a minority of people who like to smoke weed. The even smaller minority that LOVES to smoke is very vocal about their love for Cannabis. The plurality of people who don't like the stuff are by and large silent about it. It's part of my goal to give that plurality a voice. The balance of people are those who can stand to smoke it but don't like it well enough to buy.

[D_tox]

I couldn't agree with this post more dominosarah. Feel the burn. Soldier on. Better days ahead for everyone on the gear.

This here is my first post on this forum, I guess I will give a slight intro as to who I am and what i've been through.

Heres my story:

I started using heroin and weed when I was 13, never via IV (i hate needles) im a smoker. I was warned before I had my first taste of dope that It'd f**k me up forever. If only I had listened to one of my mates that day. But i made a choice that day, picked up the tube inhaled that dope, had maybe a few spots. chucked up for the rest of the day but it felt amazing. Slept like a baby for 2 days straight, this was my first experience.

My mates all had older brothers, they were users, they turned us into users too. You could say I was brought up in a bad area, was too young to understand what the heroin was and how it would've affected me in 10 years time if I kept using. It was fun, geez I've had so much fun with this drug, the amazing amount of orgasms I could have given my gf lol. The feelin' that everythings gonna be alright as long as I had the gear/dope.

But i've never had to go on the streets to get the dope here im Australia, I have so many mates selling this **** it seems I am destined to be a dealer myself .

This drug will make you lose friends, it will turn angels into demons, your family, your own blood will disown u. (im glad i've still got my family intact)

Seen friends come and go, 9 ft deep, mates gf had an OD and died. People getting locked up for trafficking. The drug didnt mean much when I wasn't using it with my friends, thats how it use to be. Till the drug became my only friend. Only to realise I was actually alone.

So i've detoxed, relapsed, detoxed and relapsed.

Been put on the bruprenorphine, subutex, methadone. I've had enough of this s**t. I was brought up in a decent family, I had completed 7 out of the 8 grades of piano before I was even 13. I continued to ace through school till it got boring.. yes school got boring because I thought i was too smart or maybe it was the gear I was smoking inbetween my recess and lunch breaks?

Sometimes I just wonder how I would've turned out if I never had that first burn...

Im currently kicking the Methadone. cold turkey'n off 5mg / 25ml. Why not stay on it? I must go overseas. My gramps is dying from cancer, can't get meth overseas. On the HARDEST WD's atm. I just hope i wont be WD'in when i see him.

My opinion on weed is. If you're inexperienced in using weed meaning you have a low tolerance to it. There could be 2 side effects. Mainly 1 being it will put u to sleep, suppress the WD's abit or like a double edged blade it could make the symptoms worst.

Now in a case where ur kicking the meth. Weed is a bad *** idea in most cases as both the drugs gets stored in ur fat cells. This is maybe why some people just hangout twice as hard when they smoke weed on meth WD's. I have experienced this myself. But it does help the insomnia. Beware it has a tendency to make you even more depressed. As if going through opiate WD aint depressing enough. Weed could make you relapse.

Keep your head up high, better days ahead for everyone. Sorry for the long *** post. I felt like this is the right place to let my story out.

My 2 cents, Dezz