Getting help

[addicted123]

I have finally taken the step to get help. I saw a Suboxone Dr. I'm on 16mgs a day. At first I was only on 12mgs, but it was not working sufficiently, so I was increased to 16 this past Sunday. I've been okay since the increase! I have finally laughed a real laugh for the first time in months! It felt so good. I am also seeing a counselor, and he is such a big help. I'm so overwhelmed with the fact that I am clean. For the first time in 7 years, I am actually clean, and can think clearly and make rational choices! Growing up, people always told me I have the ability to do great things, and for the first time .. I can actually see that. I don't know if I am being overly positive or excited, but I have already started to imagine what I can make of my life, and the things I want. I'm going on 4 weeks of being clean. Is it too soon to be thinking that way? But then, there are other times when I get stuck in the thoughts of not being strong enough one day, relapsing, and getting no where. That all of my efforts have been taken away from me. Like I'm not good enough to get anywhere in this life. I'm terrified of relapsing somewhere down the road. If I did, I would be so disappointed in myself. One of my old roommates is into opioids, and heroin (I just found out yesterday) and all she could talk about was how she wishes we had found our addictions when we were roomies, and how she has no urge to get help or stop. She relapsed 3 times already. It made me sick talking to her, and I had to stop. But, it makes me even more sick to think that that could be me one day. Anyone else experience this?

[addicted123]

Thank you all for your advice, and support!!! I feel so comfortable here, and appreciate the helpful input I receive!!! Just to clarify, in my original post, I had stated that I was talking to an OLD roommate about our addictions, and she brought up that she now is using heroin. We haven't been roomies in 7 years. She still lives in NY, and I now live in PA, since 2010. So no worries there!! I haven't even been back to NY since 2010, because that is where I ruined mu life, and there is too many things and people to enable me now that I no longer abuse pain meds, and when I was STILL taking them, I feared that going back would enable me to go deeper. Justme1119 - a special thanks to you. Your comment was VERY uplifting!!! It brought tears to my eyes!!! :) -- and Pillguy, thank you, as well! The information you provided was very insightful!!! When I told the Dr that on 12mgs, I still have cravings, he instantly upped it instead of giving advice or insight as to how to deal with it mentally, rather than upping my dosage! I have been taking a quarter of a strip AS NEEDED throughout the day. So I have extras just in case, and I'm not as dopey or tired doing it that was. I also don't fall asleep at the drop of a dime, either. Lol! Mt counselor also has placed me with a group that can offer tools and advice to deal with the mentality part of the addiction as well. I start on this Monday, the 28th! I know I am too young to be caught up in such a long cycle of substance abuse and addiction, but I also know that I am strong enough and smart enough to beat it! Even if it's a life time battle!! Which I don't mind; I put myself here, now I need to get myself out! Again, thank you all for the advice, help, insight, and personal experience/opinions!! I feel more strong, and more confident than I ever have! And also, I apologize it took so long to reply. I've been busy all week helping a friend move!!

[pillguy]

Msdoves comments on dosage are IMO, right on target.  I think very few if any need a dose of 16mg.  Get down to 8mg asap.  My doctor wanted to start me at 8mg.  I thought 4 was better and that's what we agreed on.  If I hadn't spoken up, I would have been started on 8mg.  And make NO mistake, there's going to be withdrawal from Subs.  Here's a website I've used

http://www.helpmegetoffdrugs.com/index

go to the section on "tapering off Bup"

[msdove305]

I see you got many posts and some long and I didn't have time to read them all. I feel guilty about that, I hope that some of them echoed how I feel. I think starting at 16 mg is crazy, Most people I know including me start out at 8mg. I had a horrible tooth ache and took a chip of an 8g and it went away. The whole point is to wean you off, I would start at a 4mg and if you need more then take more. You still go thru withdraws with sub just as bad as any other, please don't take more than 8 mg a day. You don't want to prolong this trust me. keep me posted. Dove

[jugglin]

Hands down, best post I have read on subs.  I hope and pray this information gives others knowledge...and hope!

[jifmoc]

Dang Pillguy...I defer to your knowledge and very balanced post. Excellent. I hope a lot of people read it:)

[justme1119]

Let me just say congratulations.  You have recognized that you need help and have taken steps in the right direction to fulfill your full potential as a person.  I have a son who is 29 and I would give anything for him to make the same decision.  Even if he had to take suboxone to help him at first, at least he would have recognized that he needs help.  You have taken the biggest step in my opinion, which is the first one, recognizing you have a problem and seeking help.  Stay here and read posts.  There are some very kind people here who will help you.  Just be aware of what people have said about the suboxone.  They are not trying to say that you've done anything wrong, just to be aware that you will at some point need to come off of them too.  When you do, there will be people here to talk you through it.  Your not my kid, but if you were I'd be very proud of you.  

[Tina6444]

Very nice and informative post Pillguy!!!!!! I did not know half of that information and appreciate your knowledge/ experience with this.  Keep posting man bc your thoughts are worth reading!!!

[gnarly_1]

Great post Pilguy  I learn something new everyday   I guess it beats methadone  that seaps into your fatty tissues and bones.....Gnarly

[pillguy]

I have the utmost respect for Jifmoc.  Great advice from someone how's walked the walk.  I have a different view of how suboxone can help.  The drug is very controversial.  Doctors and Pharma have failed miserably in regards to preparing people to use the drug and they have performed worse getting people off the drug.  It's an extremely powerful opiate that is highly addictive.  We really aren't "clean" when we are on it.  So, why do we use it.  It has a much lower effect on the respritory system.  This greatlyreduces the chance of death due to respritory depression! The primary mechanism of death due to overdose.  Secondly, it's what's called a partial agonist opiate.  An agonist is a drug at stimulates or activates a particular neuroreceptor in the brain.  The same of the molecule fits into the receptor like a key into a lock.  SUBOXONE fits into the opiate receptor lock but not perfectly, like a full agonist.  Because of this we don't get the full effects that we would get with the full agonist (like heroin).  What we do get is enough of an effect to eliminate withdrawals.  Is it a perfect situation? No.  But SUBOXONE can help our brains reward system to reset.  It's not getting that "f@@k yah". That we get from full agonists.  SUBOXONE also allows us to stop drug seeking behaviors.  We can get rid of toxic people in our lives because we don't need them to help keep us from getting sick.  It may be possible to use SUBOXONE for a short term detox.  I haven't read any studies on this.  My guess is that without some other behavioral changes, people doing a short term detox are doomed to relapse.  You have some work to do here.  I'm willing to wager that not one person here will tell you your current living situation is ok.  It's way not ok.  You are going to have cravings.  Having heroin in the next room is an impossible situation. Using opiates hijacks your brains reward system and teaches it that Opiates are as important as water, food and sex.  It hijacks the very area of your brain that controls desire for these other things.  Every relapse destroys the progress you've made letting that reward system reset.  While you are on SUBOXONE you MUST change these things.  Some of the issues you won't even recognize.  That's why a treatment plan is so important.  They will help you identify your triggers to use and help develop mechanisms to deal with them.  This is going to be a long process and it's why I advocate for at least one year of SUBOXONE treatment.

That's a lot of info so. Let's recap.  Unfortunately, you are not clean.  It's not a bad thing but you are still dependent on an opiate so you don't get sick.  It has, IMHO, attributes that can make it beneficial to use for someone hopelessly addicted to hard opiates.  It gives you time to get rid of that friend / roommate and allows your brain to slowly get better.

Now on to the good, bad and ugly of SUBOXONE.  It is highly overused.  People with an 80 mg hydro habit have been steered to SUBOXONE.  Totally inappropriate!  People hear things like "miracle drug for withdrawal". It's true for some doing 8 bags a day of heroin/fentanyl mixes.  This drug has saved many lives.  Every time I read a story of an overdose I wonder if access to this drug would have saved them.  The drug is also IMO, prescribed in way too high of doses.  And it has a very long halflife.  In eleven days, your 16mg per day will result in the equivalent of 3 grams of morphine.  That's 3000mg!

Another problem, again IMO, is that some of the worst providers in medicine have been attracted to this field.  To prescribe SUBOXONE all you need is an 8 hr online course.  Excuse me but you've got to be kidding me.  Something as complex as addiction treatment and you a required to take all of an 8 hour course , online.  Theses Doc's typically take cash only.  If you so much as talk back to them you are out.  They are only allowed to have a maximum of 100 patients.  They don't need any troublemakers.  Also, many people have found that the doctor had no interest in tapering them off.   You cannot cold turkey this drug without scarring your soul.  Remember that 16mg.  How that accumulates to 45mg over 11 days?  And how that's roughly equivalent to 3000mg of morphine.  That's going to be one hellava withdrawal.  You must have a taper plan.  If your doc doesn't work with you to develop one, research the drug and build your own.  Tapering is easier than the full agonists.  You can drop from the high doses quickly.  It's 2mg and below that takes the work.  I would not recommend stopping this drug any higher than 1 mg.  personally I think that's too high.  I "jumped" at .25mg and at the time thought maybe I should have gone to .125. (1/8mg).

In closing, this is an incredibly powerful addictive drug that can help break the addictive cycle.  It's a stopgap measure.  There's much blood sweat and tears getting off this stuff.  You will hear lots of bad about this stuff.  That's because of ignorance on the part of the patient and greed on the part of the provider.  If you are at risk of dying from your use this drug might save your life.   You need to know everything you can about this drug.  Don't take anyone's word for anything, including me.  Take charge of your life.  If you are cavalier about using this drug you may find you need to take it for the rest of your life.

I've tried to be as coherent as possible but parts may see disjointed.  I typed as the ideas came to me.  I'm wishing for you all the strength you will need to be free.

Cheers

[jugglin]

You are so young to have been stuck in a 7 year cycle of addiction.  You have a bright future ahead of you....congrats on seeking help!  Subs can be a helpful tool and has saved lives.  Happy to hear you are in counseling as Subs are meant to be part of a program.  You should be proud of yourself for moving forward!  Stick around and keep posting.

[jifmoc]

Oh sweetie, I don't want to rain on your parade, but I'm assuming you are opened to suggestions since you posted on here.

Subs are still a semi-synthetic opioid which is why you feel good. They are only supposed to be used for a very short time, weeks maybe. You will be detoxing from subs once you stop and it is worse than pills. Subs aren't a cure all. You will need to really work on the issues that are there once the pills are put down in order to stay truly clean. Our issues don't go away when we put the drugs down. Read up on subs on this board: too many peeps are having a rough time detoxing from them.


Yup, I echo the above poster: stay away from your roommate and start hangin out w/ sober people. They say we have to change one thing when we get clean: everything.

Good luck and keep posting.

[salizander]

Stay away from your old room mate, she will only derail you. You're doing so well, don't let negative people in your life. They will poison your mind, and you're achieving so many good changes! A clean life is a brighter life.